4-4-2 would've failed yesterday and will fail against most sides until we can bring in a strong CM. Two of Jackson/Stephens/Pritchard yesterday would've struggled against the Millwall three of Abdou, Bailey and Trotter.
If we want to play Harriott and Stewart from the start, we have to play 4-5-1.
I thought he looked out of his depth. After the first few times Millwall clattered him to the floor it was clear he was going to get no protection from the ref. I hope he picks himself up from this and comes back stronger. Part of his development as a footballer will be to learn how to deal with the little niggles from defenders. I wouldn't write him off on one poor performance - how many other players have taken a good few games to bed in?
To be fair none of the other players ran the ball off the pitch like Pigott did, he was poor and out of his depth imo. That's not his fault, he's simply not ready yet and I felt the role he was told to play was not suitable for him. He was coming deep to get the ball often but was out muscled a lot.
No way would I ever give him abuse during a game, but amongst friends and away from the match I don't see how his youth academy credentials makes him immune from criticism. Nor does the fact other players were just as bad, or worse. He is young and inexperienced, and the main fault must lie with the management in this respect, but for whatever reason and whatever excuse, his performance yesterday was poor. I want him to do well, and I truly hope he will, but that performance was full of rudimentary errors. Effort goes a long way - but not the whole way.
I'm not going to comment on the team's (dismal) performance as this thread is just about Joe. Of course every CAFC fan wants him to do well, especially as he came through our ranks but he must be judged on his performance yesterday and his potential as each fan sees it. In my opinion (which seems to be the view of most) he did not play well yesterday. Why was that? As many have said he didn't have much service, yet Church with similar service performed far better. Joe failed to win anything in the air. His timing was all wrong. Yann jumps early, takes the space and either wins the ball or is fouled. Joe jumped late (if at all) and was always second best. Timing can be learnt so perhaps there is something for the coaches. He was too easily bundled off the ball. More work in the gym and on the training ground can develop the ability to hold and shield the ball - again something for the coaches. However the most worrying aspect for me was his serious lack of pace. That is something that cannot be learnt and, sadly, I have doubts over Joe's capacity to step up to this level. That is my opinion. I hope Joe proves me wrong, as there is nothing more rewarding than our own youngsters coming through and making an impact.
I'm not saying he was the star man but definitely deserves to stay in the squad/on the bench. My point is that Pritchard who is usually solid was terrible yesterday, their Morrison would have murdered devite if he played 90 mins he turned him once and left him fir dead. The Bailey/Jacko drop ball sums up Jackson - slow and can't tackle
With Yann out we tried to use him in a similar role. Sordell didn't make an impact away to Huddersfield. You could see the thinking behind it.
He's goalscorer that happens to be tall, rather than a target man with a good goalscoring record. Benson was similar, never a big strong target man but he held up the ball when he could. I'm sure he'll get stronger and better at that side of the game in time.
Like Church and Sordell he'd probably be better off playing alongside Yann. If Yann's out for a while we're going to need an alternative - even if we try and play more football on the floor you need the option in the squad. Last year Fuller and Hulse gave us that.
Solly was thrown in the deepend against Millwall away,when we lost 4-0 and played crap. Look hows he has progressed before casting Piggott adrift.
Solly played left back in that game because Parky The Great chose to play a kid there out of position rather than a seasoned pro in Simon Francis. Not Solly's fault that Parky was a useless Manager.
Joe gave his all on Saturday but the game we played never suited him. He never hid and kept going. I still think he should be out on loan though and you won't get me slating him.
On the other hand. Why did we play that system? Why didn't Stewart or Harriott start, or both? Why is Pritchard or Stephens in the team? Why did we sign Gower as he is no better an option? Why did we sign Sordell?
Many more questions need answering before we get to questioning Piggotts contribution.
Nobody is saying Pigott won't make it, or that he should be slated, but he isn't ready for this level yet, and Saturday wasn't the game to start in the Championship for the 1st time. Sordell might not have been good against Huddersfield, but after what happened between him and Millwall, surely he would have had a point to prove, you can picture the headlines in the papers...
I think we all saw he was out of his depth- hopefully he will take on board where he needs to improve and learn from the lesson he received yesterday. Whether he should have been picked for such a highly intense game I would question, and whether he should have stayed on so long is another.
It does shg as its an easy label to say but not prove
Why was he out of his depth
So far someone has said he didnt win enough headers and was muscled of the ball
Yet no one can name one player who won their battles yesterday
Being out of depth needs explaining to me
As i never saw him hide i never saw him give up i never saw him shirk away from anything all things i would say indicate a player out of his depth and playing below his level which is what people mean
He was as good as every cafc player out there so were they not good enough and out of depth or just shit yesterday in a game where we refuse to accept shit as an excuse
Agreed wholeheartedly!
The whole team was shite yesterday. The service Pigott did get was dire, so how he can be raked over the coals when NO-ONE performed any better than him is a joke.
He was one of the few that actually seemed to put effort & heart into it. Sometimes the ball doesn't quite run for you, & that's what happened to him yesterday, no more, no less! That's football for you.
Instead of giving stick, it would be nice if people actually got behind THEIR players! Especially the younger ones. Too much impatience in & around the game of fitba these days, & especially from some twunts in the North!
It does shg as its an easy label to say but not prove
Why was he out of his depth
So far someone has said he didnt win enough headers and was muscled of the ball
Yet no one can name one player who won their battles yesterday
Being out of depth needs explaining to me
As i never saw him hide i never saw him give up i never saw him shirk away from anything all things i would say indicate a player out of his depth and playing below his level which is what people mean
He was as good as every cafc player out there so were they not good enough and out of depth or just shit yesterday in a game where we refuse to accept shit as an excuse
Agreed wholeheartedly!
The whole team was shite yesterday. The service Pigott did get was dire, so how he can be raked over the coals when NO-ONE performed any better than him is a joke.
He was one of the few that actually seemed to put effort & heart into it. Sometimes the ball doesn't quite run for you, & that's what happened to him yesterday, no more, no less! That's football for you.
Instead of giving stick, it would be nice if people actually got behind THEIR players! Especially the younger ones. Too much impatience in & around the game of fitba these days, & especially from some twunts in the North!
Keep your chin up Joe, you'll git 'em next time!
100% support. Accentuate the good points and work on the areas that need improving. It's so simple, very basic stuff but some 'supporters' seem happier being nasty and destructive. I really don't understand this mentality at all.
And still 2 days later no one can tell me anything good that others done
Yet the OOD comments still come
The only thing people are saying is that on 2 occasions he either had a poor touch or lost concentration and ran the ball out of play
Yes it looked bad when it happend and its is indefencible
But it just made him look shit like every other jester or clown that was out there yet with me he gets more time due to his age and being one of ours Who actually looked interested and tried even though not one of our so called senior pros helped him at all and should be rallying rd the kid today
Solly was thrown in the deepend against Millwall away,when we lost 4-0 and played crap. Look hows he has progressed before casting Piggott adrift.
Solly played left back in that game because Parky The Great chose to play a kid there out of position rather than a seasoned pro in Simon Francis. Not Solly's fault that Parky was a useless Manager.
I'm no big of fan of PArky but to have a go at him for not picking Francis who was a Southend player at the time is extremley harsh!
Pigott clearly isn't ready yet. Having said that, I was at the Tottenham game on Thursday and Defoe did not do a single thing - apart from scoring two goals that is. He didn't create the goals themselves but, sitting on the shoulder of the last man, he finished superbly.
Joe doesn't have Defoe's or, for that matter Church's, experience. But let's say Church's chance had fallen to Joe and he had stuck it away, would we be quite so critical of the lad?
As I say, he isn't ready and if we had four strikers in front of him, I dare say he would be on loan at a League 1 club now just like Defoe was, at the same age, at Bournemouth.
Ultimately, he may or may not be good enough but let's not ruin the lad's career before it's even started especially if his game is all about scoring.
Yann never failed a late test he was always a doubt and confirmed friday
There is a differnce with accepting a lad had a shit day and labelling him out of depth
You can not judge him on headers lost when he is a baller
His game is to drop in the whole and play with feet in a number ten yet he was asked to play in a nine
I can't see how because he is young he can be labled it
If I was basing an opinion on yesterday I would say all of them were league 1 and below and therefor all out of depth But we lknow that would be a ridiculous statement
They were all shit the mgmt the players all of them every single one a gutless toss pot
Powell needs to persevere with JP or send him out on loan. I haven't seen him play often enough to have an informed opinion about his ability. Hopefully Saturday won't have knocked his confidence.
Pigott is a talented lad who's not yet ready to start regularly in the Championship. But on his day he will cause any defence a lot of problems, as Oxford found out, and just a tad more confidence - as 70 minutes on the pitch might well help him with - might have brought a very different performance from him.
There's definitely a Championship player in there, just because he's tall we shouldn't imagine he's an aerial player. When I've seen him, his game is based on good movement and good link play, little of which came off yesterday, but he's surprisingly fleet of foot and has a finish in him.
My hope is that Powell sticking with him for 70 minutes outweighs the brainless barracking of his mistakes from the stands. He didn't play well, but wasn't it his first league start? Let's get behind him.
Just to add that he was visibly learning during the game yesterday. After an inauspicious start, there was a delightful moment for those watching him when a little movement just before the ball was played for him lost his close marker and gave him the space to control and find a red shirt. Small, simple, but a lad who was trying to use his brain to get round what was probably his biggest challenge to date in his career. He probably needed more brawn too, but that will come.
Solly was thrown in the deepend against Millwall away,when we lost 4-0 and played crap. Look hows he has progressed before casting Piggott adrift.
Solly played left back in that game because Parky The Great chose to play a kid there out of position rather than a seasoned pro in Simon Francis. Not Solly's fault that Parky was a useless Manager.
Ha ha Large, I know that you will blame Simon Francis for a lot of things but it was actually Frasier Richardson who played RB in that game. Simon Francis was still playing for Southend at the time.
Pigott is a talented lad who's not yet ready to start regularly in the Championship. But on his day he will cause any defence a lot of problems, as Oxford found out, and just a tad more confidence - as 70 minutes on the pitch might well help him with - might have brought a very different performance from him.
There's definitely a Championship player in there, just because he's tall we shouldn't imagine he's an aerial player. When I've seen him, his game is based on good movement and good link play, little of which came off yesterday, but he's surprisingly fleet of foot and has a finish in him.
My hope is that Powell sticking with him for 70 minutes outweighs the brainless barracking of his mistakes from the stands. He didn't play well, but wasn't it his first league start? Let's get behind him.
I didn't hear any 'brainless barracking', indeed when he was subbed he was applauded off and several people near me though it appropriate to stand up to do so.
Rather than a discussion about Pigott in footballing terms, I can see this thread gradually going the same way as many on here - where the crowd is somehow blamed for poor individual performances.
I'd never boo or abuse ANY player whilst playing for Charlton, I just don't agree with it, but it was plain to see Pigott was having a shocker and all his mistakes were 'high profile' ones (in full view of everyone). Even the Millwall fans noticed his errors and chanted about them. Now the team as a whole played poorly (save Morrison and possibly Dervite), but in my opinion JP should have been taken out of the game an half time as physically he was struggling and with every mistake his head was dropping / getting frustrated. He needs to take the critism and come back stronger, which I'm sure he will.
Solly was thrown in the deepend against Millwall away,when we lost 4-0 and played crap. Look hows he has progressed before casting Piggott adrift.
Solly played left back in that game because Parky The Great chose to play a kid there out of position rather than a seasoned pro in Simon Francis. Not Solly's fault that Parky was a useless Manager.
Francis was not even at the club at the time. We signd him the following season. Blimey i know he was not the most popular Charlton Manager ever but blaming him for not picking a player who played for another club at the time is a bit over the top.....
Solly was thrown in the deepend against Millwall away,when we lost 4-0 and played crap. Look hows he has progressed before casting Piggott adrift.
Solly played left back in that game because Parky The Great chose to play a kid there out of position rather than a seasoned pro in Simon Francis. Not Solly's fault that Parky was a useless Manager.
Ha ha Large, I know that you will blame Simon Francis for a lot of things but it was actually Frasier Richardson who played RB in that game. Simon Francis was still playing for Southend at the time.
I stand corrected but the point I was making still remains.
Pigott is a talented lad who's not yet ready to start regularly in the Championship. But on his day he will cause any defence a lot of problems, as Oxford found out, and just a tad more confidence - as 70 minutes on the pitch might well help him with - might have brought a very different performance from him.
There's definitely a Championship player in there, just because he's tall we shouldn't imagine he's an aerial player. When I've seen him, his game is based on good movement and good link play, little of which came off yesterday, but he's surprisingly fleet of foot and has a finish in him.
My hope is that Powell sticking with him for 70 minutes outweighs the brainless barracking of his mistakes from the stands. He didn't play well, but wasn't it his first league start? Let's get behind him.
Doing well against a L2 club is quite different from starting in the Championship, especially in a key role in the spine of the team. To an extent, the wide winger can be excused other duties, he has a freeish role to create and try things, which Harriott did in his initial cameos last season, but being the main target man for the team, is a key role, especially in a team which tends to hoof the ball up front is a very tough way to learn your trade.
Solly was thrown in the deepend against Millwall away,when we lost 4-0 and played crap. Look hows he has progressed before casting Piggott adrift.
Solly played left back in that game because Parky The Great chose to play a kid there out of position rather than a seasoned pro in Simon Francis. Not Solly's fault that Parky was a useless Manager.
Ha ha Large, I know that you will blame Simon Francis for a lot of things but it was actually Frasier Richardson who played RB in that game. Simon Francis was still playing for Southend at the time.
I stand corrected but the point I was making still remains.
Powell did the same when he played Wagstaff on the left, think it was when we lost away to Dagenham?
One decision doesn't prove a manager is good/poor. The same manager took a League 2 side to the League Cup final and won promotion in the same season.
Pigott is a talented lad who's not yet ready to start regularly in the Championship. But on his day he will cause any defence a lot of problems, as Oxford found out, and just a tad more confidence - as 70 minutes on the pitch might well help him with - might have brought a very different performance from him.
There's definitely a Championship player in there, just because he's tall we shouldn't imagine he's an aerial player. When I've seen him, his game is based on good movement and good link play, little of which came off yesterday, but he's surprisingly fleet of foot and has a finish in him.
My hope is that Powell sticking with him for 70 minutes outweighs the brainless barracking of his mistakes from the stands. He didn't play well, but wasn't it his first league start? Let's get behind him.
Doing well against a L2 club is quite different from starting in the Championship, especially in a key role in the spine of the team. To an extent, the wide winger can be excused other duties, he has a freeish role to create and try things, which Harriott did in his initial cameos last season, but being the main target man for the team, is a key role, especially in a team which tends to hoof the ball up front is a very tough way to learn your trade.
Tend to agree - I don't think he is a target man, and I'd be amazed if Powell told the team to boot it to his head all game .
Yann never failed a late test he was always a doubt and confirmed friday
There is a differnce with accepting a lad had a shit day and labelling him out of depth
You can not judge him on headers lost when he is a baller
His game is to drop in the whole and play with feet in a number ten yet he was asked to play in a nine
I can't see how because he is young he can be labled it
If I was basing an opinion on yesterday I would say all of them were league 1 and below and therefor all out of depth But we lknow that would be a ridiculous statement
They were all shit the mgmt the players all of them every single one a gutless toss pot
Not what sky claimed NLA?
I know of at least 2 people on here that told me Yann wont be playing Friday
Yann never failed a late test he was always a doubt and confirmed friday You are propbably corect NLA
There is a differnce with accepting a lad had a shit day and labelling him out of depth
You can not judge him on headers lost when he is a baller
His game is to drop in the whole and play with feet in a number ten yet he was asked to play in a nine
I can't see how because he is young he can be labled it
If I was basing an opinion on yesterday I would say all of them were league 1 and below and therefor all out of depth But we lknow that would be a ridiculous statement
They were all shit the mgmt the players all of them every single one a gutless toss pot
Not what sky claimed NLA?
I know of at least 2 people on here that told me Yann wont be playing Friday
You are probably correct. although I heard it on sky on the replay when I got home. Also on Friday the CAFC website stated, in Powell's prematch/preview. Yann Kermorgant is expected to return to the fold having missed the midweek defeat at Huddersfield Town Read more at http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20130920-powell-eyes-derby-fortune-1065847.aspx#W48doOZ7tvtJcfy0.99 You may well have known? if you have sources NLA,....... as I stated Sky did report failing a late fitness test. Let's no split hairs shall we?. We both agree surely, CAFC would have been a whole let stronger with Kermie leading the attack without question.
Comments
If we want to play Harriott and Stewart from the start, we have to play 4-5-1.
He's goalscorer that happens to be tall, rather than a target man with a good goalscoring record. Benson was similar, never a big strong target man but he held up the ball when he could. I'm sure he'll get stronger and better at that side of the game in time.
Like Church and Sordell he'd probably be better off playing alongside Yann. If Yann's out for a while we're going to need an alternative - even if we try and play more football on the floor you need the option in the squad. Last year Fuller and Hulse gave us that.
On the other hand. Why did we play that system? Why didn't Stewart or Harriott start, or both? Why is Pritchard or Stephens in the team? Why did we sign Gower as he is no better an option? Why did we sign Sordell?
Many more questions need answering before we get to questioning Piggotts contribution.
The whole team was shite yesterday. The service Pigott did get was dire, so how he can be raked over the coals when NO-ONE performed any better than him is a joke.
He was one of the few that actually seemed to put effort & heart into it. Sometimes the ball doesn't quite run for you, & that's what happened to him yesterday, no more, no less! That's football for you.
Instead of giving stick, it would be nice if people actually got behind THEIR players! Especially the younger ones. Too much impatience in & around the game of fitba these days, & especially from some twunts in the North!
Keep your chin up Joe, you'll git 'em next time!
Yet the OOD comments still come
The only thing people are saying is that on 2 occasions he either had a poor touch or lost concentration and ran the ball out of play
Yes it looked bad when it happend and its is indefencible
But it just made him look shit like every other jester or clown that was out there yet with me he gets more time due to his age and being one of ours
Who actually looked interested and tried even though not one of our so called senior pros helped him at all and should be rallying rd the kid today
Joe doesn't have Defoe's or, for that matter Church's, experience. But let's say Church's chance had fallen to Joe and he had stuck it away, would we be quite so critical of the lad?
As I say, he isn't ready and if we had four strikers in front of him, I dare say he would be on loan at a League 1 club now just like Defoe was, at the same age, at Bournemouth.
Ultimately, he may or may not be good enough but let's not ruin the lad's career before it's even started especially if his game is all about scoring.
Hopefully Saturday won't have knocked his confidence.
There's definitely a Championship player in there, just because he's tall we shouldn't imagine he's an aerial player. When I've seen him, his game is based on good movement and good link play, little of which came off yesterday, but he's surprisingly fleet of foot and has a finish in him.
My hope is that Powell sticking with him for 70 minutes outweighs the brainless barracking of his mistakes from the stands. He didn't play well, but wasn't it his first league start? Let's get behind him.
Rather than a discussion about Pigott in footballing terms, I can see this thread gradually going the same way as many on here - where the crowd is somehow blamed for poor individual performances.
One decision doesn't prove a manager is good/poor. The same manager took a League 2 side to the League Cup final and won promotion in the same season.
I know of at least 2 people on here that told me Yann wont be playing Friday
Also on Friday the CAFC website stated, in Powell's prematch/preview.
Yann Kermorgant is expected to return to the fold having missed the midweek defeat at Huddersfield Town
Read more at http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20130920-powell-eyes-derby-fortune-1065847.aspx#W48doOZ7tvtJcfy0.99
You may well have known? if you have sources NLA,....... as I stated Sky did report failing a late fitness test.
Let's no split hairs shall we?.
We both agree surely, CAFC would have been a whole let stronger with Kermie leading the attack without question.