Well there you have it a Burnley fan says our number 8 is a decent player,looking to play good balls,but made to look stupid due to players not making runs.Last week Stephens got murdered on here after Millwall, well I remember him hitting a cross field 60 yard ball on to Wiggins toes last week yet people still don't see it, he is a class ball playing midfielder (our only one) yet people what to continuously dig him out.Lambert obviously saw something in him, and he was/is assembling a good young team. We need to assure him/ Sordell they are going to get a run in the team.Believe in them not one bad game and your out for 3 weeks.
He's shite. I too was at the game yesterday and saw absolutely nothing positive from him. As usual. Not singling him out for criticism, nearly the whole team was poor.
But this myth that Stephens is some kind of dynamic, goal-creating and quick passing midfielder is laughable. He is, for the most part, utterly pedestrian.
Well my friend you know fcuk all about football !!!
Me and thousands of others I guess, then. Thanks for clearing that up, intelligentsia.
I must have missed all the goals he's scored and killer through-balls he's made lately (or ever).
Nobody said he had to score goals and play killer through balls you need somebody comfortable on the ball which he is, whilst we have the ball the other doesn't football is a simple game, played in a controlled patient way will always in the end reap benefits.Dále always shows for the ball and wants the ball, we need more players of the same ilk.
Nobody said he had to score goals and play killer through balls you need somebody comfortable on the ball which he is, whilst we have the ball the other doesn't football is a simple game, played in a controlled patient way will always in the end reap benefits.Dále always shows for the ball and wants the ball, we need more players of the same ilk.
The "patient" build-up has certainly seen an upturn in results recently! Gower always shows for the ball too? He's still not very good (in my opinion).
People criticise Jacko and Pritch but at least you can point to their contributions (well, last season at least). With Stephens, bar a wonder-goal a season and the odd tidy pass, you can't.
For what it's worth, someone on the player marks thread gave Stephens a 3.5 for yesterday's showing. The lowest rating given so far. So just shows how divided opinions are.
I went to Turf Moor without high expectations and sadly found my unusually pessimistic - or, as some might say, realistic - outlook justified by events. As others have said, the team performance wasn't all bad. Dervite was solid for the most part, Cousins looked comfortable and creative on the ball and Wilson ran from start to finish. To begin with Burnley couldn't cope with being crowded out whenever they were on the ball. However, it was all a bit negative, spoiling rather than creative, and up front we carried no threat at all. Even in the first half, when the match was fairly evenly balanced, it seemed clear that we were never going to score (barring a fluky deflection). Personally, I would rather see us go all out against Forest and Blackpool and give it a go than sit back yet again, hoping for a 0-0 or for a goal from a breakaway or corner/free kick. That tactic hasn't served us too well in recent games. I know that results are everything to some people, who might prefer a more cautious approach, but particularly when playing at home we need some excitement - and some hope. So I'd like our matches this week to be death or glory affairs - let's go 4-4-2, two wingers, two strikers, a lot of energy and see how they like it up 'em!
Stephens does divide opinion. I can understand why. Personally, I rate him. I think he is our most natural 'footballer' and shows glimpses of what he can do, but nowhere near enough. I believe that if he were playing with strikers and other midfielders of real quality then he would be a pivotal player in such a team. He is an enigma but could turn out to be a real payer. The Clarets fan who highlighted him as one of our best players got it right.
When the going gets tough you need people with quality, but they gotta have a bit of bumhole about them as well. Stephens shirked a couple of tackles last week, can't be having that.
When the going gets tough you need people with quality, but they gotta have a bit of bumhole about them as well. Stephens shirked a couple of tackles last week, can't be having that.
I was there and I'm absolutely sure Stephens had a bumhole.
We are not going to get out of this mess by playing defensively .. 4 4 2 against Forest please, plenty of width ..and Kermorgant, Jackson and Solly .. get well soon chaps .. we need you fit and back on the pitch URGENTLY
Exactly right. Width. Play with two wingers, get to the byline, plenty of crosses. We can't keep a clean sheet, will probably let in two, so we need to score a couple for a chance of a draw. What is the point in five across the middle and losing anyway. Give it go. If we are going to lose anyway what have we to lose by being expansive and positive?
Well there you have it a Burnley fan says our number 8 is a decent player,looking to play good balls,but made to look stupid due to players not making runs.Last week Stephens got murdered on here after Millwall, well I remember him hitting a cross field 60 yard ball on to Wiggins toes last week yet people still don't see it, he is a class ball playing midfielder (our only one) yet people what to continuously dig him out.Lambert obviously saw something in him, and he was/is assembling a good young team. We need to assure him/ Sordell they are going to get a run in the team.Believe in them not one bad game and your out for 3 weeks.
YES THIS! What has Stephens done?? Vision / passing and all round play is top class, Not sure I really understand why he get slaughtered on here....
We are not going to get out of this mess by playing defensively .. 4 4 2 against Forest please, plenty of width ..and Kermorgant, Jackson and Solly .. get well soon chaps .. we need you fit and back on the pitch URGENTLY
Exactly right. Width. Play with two wingers, get to the byline, plenty of crosses. We can't keep a clean sheet, will probably let in two, so we need to score a couple for a chance of a draw. What is the point in five across the middle and losing anyway. Give it go. If we are going to lose anyway what have we to lose by being expansive and positive?
we agree .. it worked at Barnsley, coming back from 2 down, though the strong breeze helped, and nearly worked at Huddersfield .. at Burnley? .. it was tried and though it didn't work we looked more dangerous and not a lot less secure in defence than with a 4 5 1 .. Burnley were simply bigger, more skilful, confident and together than us .. partly the result I suspect of consistent team selection
I agree Lincs that consistent team selection helped Burnley, as it helped us last season but the other thing is confidence, Burnley's was sky-high, ours after the 1st goal was low, but that is understandable as team on a loosing streak is not confident once things go against them, and so it was at Turf Moor.
The worst thing for me on Saturday was our extremely slow ponderous build up, ok we had 51% possession but it was mostly in our own half, they need to inject some urgency into their attacking as at present any opponent can get all their defenders and midfielders in place by the time we come across the half way line.
That`s it, at least give the fans something to shout about, just go for it and anything can happen! Would rather lose 3.2 or 4.3 than a tame 2.0
Or 0-4? Understand the sentiment, but there is also a bigger risk of getting thrashed, which is likely to damage morale and confidence further, even if the points outcome is the same. I'm not saying there's an easy answer, just cautious that if we ship goals some people will want to blame the manager for that too, even if it's a consequence of tactics they advocated.
I think confidence had a lot to do with the performance on Saturday, not just from the players but also the management. The team sent out on Saturday went out to stifle and stop Burney playing, frustrate the opposition then score on the counter. To be fair defensively it worked for most of the first half. and I thought we looked quite organised. Going forward the best we could have hoped for was a set piece goal or a moment of inidiviudal magic from Stewart but that didn't look likely at all. The emphasis seemed very much on not f**king up rather than taking a chance and commiting a few men forward to support.
From Powell's point of view this formation and style of play worked wonders away from home last year but there are a few major differences. Church cannot play in a 4-5-1, especially if we are going to launch balls up to him and take an age to support him. Only Kermogant in our current squad (and Fuller last year) can play this role. Last season we played on the counter attack, fast and direct with the midfield racing forward to get in the box. This season there is no support so our attacks are slow and generally stem from a slow passing move across the back four, by which time the home team is back and organised. My last point and the source of most of my frustration is the crossing. It's dire and when we do hit a half decent cross, why is it always in the air? We have no aerial power whatsoever without Kermogant. Sordell and Church are a foot shorter than most of the centre backs they play again so why Chris, why are we just launching crosses into the six yard box. Last season Wiggins would sell the odd dummy and cut into the area. Why not drive a few crosses in?
It seems to me that the two chancers who picked us up to try and make a killing, are dangerously close to costing us 10 points deducted, and a slide back into League One. They are the worst communicators I know, the crowds are dwindling and the confidence throughout is at an all time low. Worse even than when we were forced out to Selhurst. I feel very sorry for Chris Powell, who appears to be between a rock and a hard place. Apart from new owners, who certainly will not pay what is being asked, I see only one saviour, Alan Curbishley. His return would lift everything in one minute, but how could we achieve it ?
I think confidence had a lot to do with the performance on Saturday, not just from the players but also the management. The team sent out on Saturday went out to stifle and stop Burney playing, frustrate the opposition then score on the counter. To be fair defensively it worked for most of the first half. and I thought we looked quite organised. Going forward the best we could have hoped for was a set piece goal or a moment of inidiviudal magic from Stewart but that didn't look likely at all. The emphasis seemed very much on not f**king up rather than taking a chance and commiting a few men forward to support.
From Powell's point of view this formation and style of play worked wonders away from home last year but there are a few major differences. Church cannot play in a 4-5-1, especially if we are going to launch balls up to him and take an age to support him. Only Kermogant in our current squad (and Fuller last year) can play this role. Last season we played on the counter attack, fast and direct with the midfield racing forward to get in the box. This season there is no support so our attacks are slow and generally stem from a slow passing move across the back four, by which time the home team is back and organised. My last point and the source of most of my frustration is the crossing. It's dire and when we do hit a half decent cross, why is it always in the air? We have no aerial power whatsoever without Kermogant. Sordell and Church are a foot shorter than most of the centre backs they play again so why Chris, why are we just launching crosses into the six yard box. Last season Wiggins would sell the odd dummy and cut into the area. Why not drive a few crosses in?
Good post. You have accurately identified some of our worst failings.
It seems to me that the two chancers who picked us up to try and make a killing, are dangerously close to costing us 10 points deducted, and a slide back into League One. They are the worst communicators I know, the crowds are dwindling and the confidence throughout is at an all time low. Worse even than when we were forced out to Selhurst. I feel very sorry for Chris Powell, who appears to be between a rock and a hard place. Apart from new owners, who certainly will not pay what is being asked, I see only one saviour, Alan Curbishley. His return would lift everything in one minute, but how could we achieve it ?
Although I think Powell is in need of a mentor, an experienced hand, I'd be very surprised if Curbs wanted to come back to us in any capacity. He's had his glory with us - many good years - and returning to a struggling Championship club would be a big come-down. If Curbs wants a piece of the action, he's canny and tough enough for the Prem - though I wonder if the chairmen are wary of hiring him after his admirable stand against the owners of West Ham.
I was thinking about Cort. I think he is our best centre half - add it to JJ, Yann and Chris being injured and Pritchard going off at h/t and you probably are looking at our 5 best players there!!!!! With a small squad- it is a lot to cover!
I agree Lincs that consistent team selection helped Burnley, as it helped us last season but the other thing is confidence, Burnley's was sky-high, ours after the 1st goal was low, but that is understandable as team on a loosing streak is not confident once things go against them, and so it was aTurf Moor.
The worst thing for me on Saturday was our extremely slow ponderous build up, ok we had 51% possession but it was mostly in our own half, they need to inject some urgency into their attacking as at present any opponent can get all their defenders and midfielders in place by the time we come across the half way line.
Exactly, we need to get back to 4 4 2 with Harriott and (possibly) Stewart treading the lines .. even with a defensive 352/451 our defence is too weak a t m to hold on for a point or defend a lead .. one worry is that teams seem to have sussed that Morrison is vulnerable to the fast ball in the air played across him almost from the goal line .. we have conceded four in that way that I have seen this season .. irrespective, we need to go on the attack right from the off .. we seem to take a good 1/2 hour to get going this season (from what I have seen)
Well there you have it a Burnley fan says our number 8 is a decent player,looking to play good balls,but made to look stupid due to players not making runs.Last week Stephens got murdered on here after Millwall, well I remember him hitting a cross field 60 yard ball on to Wiggins toes last week yet people still don't see it, he is a class ball playing midfielder (our only one) yet people what to continuously dig him out.Lambert obviously saw something in him, and he was/is assembling a good young team. We need to assure him/ Sordell they are going to get a run in the team.Believe in them not one bad game and your out for 3 weeks.
YES THIS! What has Stephens done?? Vision / passing and all round play is top class, Not sure I really understand why he get slaughtered on here....
Because a lot of people don't know a good footballer when they see one. He only looks worthless because he's looking to do something that only better players would anticipate.
Morrison doesn't seem the player he was last season,thought Burnleys 1st goal was down to him,then once we were a goal down our heads seem to drop,seems to be the same old story.Our squad must be the weekest in this division,we need a better bench
We can't create anything but once again it can't be stephens'. The bloke is a bottom of the championship player.
Those who ramble on about how good he is should have a look at couple of the forest midfielders tommorrow night. They are good players and he will once again fail to create/ get near them as usual.
Morrison doesn't seem the player he was last season,thought Burnleys 1st goal was down to him,then once we were a goal down our heads seem to drop,seems to be the same old story.Our squad must be the weekest in this division,we need a better bench
I'd give him a run at right back v Forest and try Wood in the middle .. Wilson is OK but he's just not that good as a pure defender .. as I posted on the 'preview' post. Morrison has spent a fair time coming down the right flank in the 352 set up .. I reckon it's worth a go ... Powell has tried umpteen combinations so far, give this a whack
Well there you have it a Burnley fan says our number 8 is a decent player,looking to play good balls,but made to look stupid due to players not making runs.Last week Stephens got murdered on here after Millwall, well I remember him hitting a cross field 60 yard ball on to Wiggins toes last week yet people still don't see it, he is a class ball playing midfielder (our only one) yet people what to continuously dig him out.Lambert obviously saw something in him, and he was/is assembling a good young team. We need to assure him/ Sordell they are going to get a run in the team.Believe in them not one bad game and your out for 3 weeks.
YES THIS! What has Stephens done?? Vision / passing and all round play is top class, Not sure I really understand why he get slaughtered on here....
Because a lot of people don't know a good footballer when they see one. He only looks worthless because he's looking to do something that only better players would anticipate.
What does he try that the other players can't anticipate?
He's not worthless, he has had good games for us. Suggests to me it's down to the player himself rather than being surrounded by poor team mates.
Good players usually stand out. For me he has some good attributes (not an all round game) and has potential (which he might not reach, much of that is down to him). Now he is the type of player that needs pace, energy and movement around him, but I'm not convinced he's actually a great player that struggles because he's too good for the rest of the team.
I'm not sure what to make of him, flashes of class, sometimes lazy, defo has a talent, but doesn't seem to fit with how we usually end up playing; but I *do* know that when he goes for a tackle, I expect to see a card brandished each time!
Comments
I must have missed all the goals he's scored and killer through-balls he's made lately (or ever).
People criticise Jacko and Pritch but at least you can point to their contributions (well, last season at least). With Stephens, bar a wonder-goal a season and the odd tidy pass, you can't.
For what it's worth, someone on the player marks thread gave Stephens a 3.5 for yesterday's showing. The lowest rating given so far. So just shows how divided opinions are.
Don't ask me for my source.
The worst thing for me on Saturday was our extremely slow ponderous build up, ok we had 51% possession but it was mostly in our own half, they need to inject some urgency into their attacking as at present any opponent can get all their defenders and midfielders in place by the time we come across the half way line.
From Powell's point of view this formation and style of play worked wonders away from home last year but there are a few major differences. Church cannot play in a 4-5-1, especially if we are going to launch balls up to him and take an age to support him. Only Kermogant in our current squad (and Fuller last year) can play this role.
Last season we played on the counter attack, fast and direct with the midfield racing forward to get in the box. This season there is no support so our attacks are slow and generally stem from a slow passing move across the back four, by which time the home team is back and organised.
My last point and the source of most of my frustration is the crossing. It's dire and when we do hit a half decent cross, why is it always in the air? We have no aerial power whatsoever without Kermogant. Sordell and Church are a foot shorter than most of the centre backs they play again so why Chris, why are we just launching crosses into the six yard box. Last season Wiggins would sell the odd dummy and cut into the area. Why not drive a few crosses in?
Those who ramble on about how good he is should have a look at couple of the forest midfielders tommorrow night. They are good players and he will once again fail to create/ get near them as usual.
I'd give him a run at right back v Forest and try Wood in the middle .. Wilson is OK but he's just not that good as a pure defender .. as I posted on the 'preview' post. Morrison has spent a fair time coming down the right flank in the 352 set up .. I reckon it's worth a go ... Powell has tried umpteen combinations so far, give this a whack
He's not worthless, he has had good games for us. Suggests to me it's down to the player himself rather than being surrounded by poor team mates.
Good players usually stand out. For me he has some good attributes (not an all round game) and has potential (which he might not reach, much of that is down to him). Now he is the type of player that needs pace, energy and movement around him, but I'm not convinced he's actually a great player that struggles because he's too good for the rest of the team.