At no point have I suggested that smoke from cigarettes isn't dangerous...just adding that fireworks, traffic fumes, industrial pollution etc never produce the same heated debate.
Edit: In my 50 + years of following Charlton, not once did I hear a parent say they were worried about there children's health because of smokers. Only since the smoking ban have I heard complaints.
Obviously the main point to consider is the clubs performance since the smoking ban came into effect.
I think there is a direct correlation between the ban and me not being able to light up a lucky cigarette if we are drawing/losing with ten minutes to go.
Those who smoke in the toilets are just wrong - what do they do on planes?
The provision of a smoking area would be good, but the lack of one does not justify smoking in the toilets.
Obviously the main point to consider is the clubs performance since the smoking ban came into effect.
I think there is a direct correlation between the ban and me not being able to light up a lucky cigarette if we are drawing/losing with ten minutes to go.
Those who smoke in the toilets are just wrong - what do they do on planes?
The provision of a smoking area would be good, but the lack of one does not justify smoking in the toilets.
Is this just a problem in the mens toilets?
You have lucky cigs, and you've only one lung. Sounds a tad unlucky to me. ;-)
Don't smoke myself and don't care if people do smoke tbh, think the attitude towards smokers in general on here is ridiculous, if people wanna smoke then they will.
Obviously the main debate is about smoking in the toilets which is against the law therefore wrong, but for the guy who is moaning about smoking in the high street - just how much bubble wrap was you wrapped in growing up?
Have never been a smoker but admit that I miss the smell of smoke in the open air as it reminds me of going to football when I was a kid. The smoking in the toilet pisses me off though as there will be people and kids that actually want to use the toilet for its intended purpose and can't because there's seventeen blokes puffing and blowing in each cubicle and secondly, you can't even use the urinal without coming out stinking of smoke.
I actually blame the club. They seem to have policed the smoking ban in such a way as to force smokers that were spread out and in the open air and pretty much not doing anyone any harm into a concentrated group in an enclosed space that non-smokers and children will have to use. We'd all have been better off if they'd left it as it was! Or, given the law now, if they just provided an outdoor smoking area, I can't believe it's that hard to do. Either way, allowing people to smoke in the toilets is the most stupid option of all.
I actually blame the club. They seem to have policed the smoking ban in such a way as to force smokers that were spread out and in the open air and pretty much not doing anyone any harm into a concentrated group in an enclosed space that non-smokers and children will have to use.
Rubbish! Nobody has forced these people to do anything. They have chosen to break the law and (potentially) cause harm to other people because they are so pathetic that they cannot manage to go 2 hours without lighting up. Why should the club make facilities available to them to indulge their habit?
I actually blame the club. They seem to have policed the smoking ban in such a way as to force smokers that were spread out and in the open air and pretty much not doing anyone any harm into a concentrated group in an enclosed space that non-smokers and children will have to use.
Rubbish! Nobody has forced these people to do anything. They have chosen to break the law and (potentially) cause harm to other people because they are so pathetic that they cannot manage to go 2 hours without lighting up. Why should the club make facilities available to them to indulge their habit?
The club clearly has to do something though. Offer an alternative to the toilets (which I suspect many will ignore and continue smoking inside) or go to the considerable cost of stopping it, which could include having stewards in all the toilets ejecting any fan that breaks the rule - yeah, good luck with that!
Because the alternative is either the situation that we have now where the toilets are basically unusable or the club spending a lot of time and effort and potential conflict policing a complete smoking ban.
Without getting into whether people should need to smoke or not during that period, clearly there are a fair few that feel that they do and are prepared to break the rules to do so. In that instance, I would suggest that the easiest way of addressing this would be just to provide an outdoor smoking area. I'm only talking a designated outdoor space, I wouldn't expect them to furnish it with luxuries and home comforts.
It's not really a moral argument, just a path of least resistance.
I'm guessing that every person on here that is concerned about their children being affected/contaminated by passive smoking also banned their children from celebrating November 5th.
The Toxic Elements of Fireworks - Pick Your Poison
Toxic Element Fireworks Usage Toxic Effect of Fallout Dust & Fumes Aluminum brilliant whites Contact dermatitis, bioaccumulation Antimony sulfide glitter effects Toxic smoke, possible carcinogen Arsenic compounds Used as colorants. Sadly still out there. [3] Toxic ash can cause lung cancer, skin irritation and wart formation. Barium Nitrate glittering greens Poisonous. Fumes can irritate respiratory tract. Possible radioactive fallout. [4] Copper compounds blues Polychlorinated dioxins and dibenzofurans. [5] Can bioaccumulate. Cancer risk. Hexachlorobenzene (HCB) [5] Use was supposed to be banned globally. Persistent environmental toxin. Is a carcinogen, mutagen and a reproductive hazard [13]. Lead Dioxide / Nitrate / Chloride oxidizer Bioaccumulation, developmental danger for kids & unborn babes, may remain airborne for days, poisonous to plants & animals Lithium compounds blazing reds Toxic and irritating fumes when burned Mercury (Mercurous chloride) chlorine donor Toxic heavy metal. Can bioaccumulate. Nitric oxide fireworks byproduct [6] Toxic by inhalation. Is a free radical Nitrogen dioxide fireworks byproduct [6] Highly toxic by inhalation. SIDS risk [8]. Ozone fireworks byproduct [7] Greenhouse gas that attacks & irritates lungs Perchlorate - Ammonium & Potassium propellant / oxidizer Can contaminate ground & surface waters, can cause thyroid problems in humans & animals Potassium Nitrate in black powder Toxic dusts, carcinogenic sulfur-coal compounds Strontium compounds blazing reds Can replace calcium in body. Strontium chloride is slightly toxic. Sulfur Dioxide gaseous byproduct of sulfur combustion Acid rain from sulphuric acid affects water sources, vegetation & causes property damage. SIDS risk [8].
The pollution created in the manufacturing of fireworks is another debate.
Someone should let Ballotelli know this - only person i know of who holds his displays in toilets.
I actually blame the club. They seem to have policed the smoking ban in such a way as to force smokers that were spread out and in the open air and pretty much not doing anyone any harm into a concentrated group in an enclosed space that non-smokers and children will have to use.
Rubbish! Nobody has forced these people to do anything. They have chosen to break the law and (potentially) cause harm to other people because they are so pathetic that they cannot manage to go 2 hours without lighting up. Why should the club make facilities available to them to indulge their habit?
The club clearly has to do something though. Offer an alternative to the toilets (which I suspect many will ignore and continue smoking inside) or go to the considerable cost of stopping it, which could include having stewards in all the toilets ejecting any fan that breaks the rule - yeah, good luck with that!
Well, as it's a criminal offence, how about getting a couple of plod in there every game and issue a fixed penalty notice on all the people smoking? £50 fine should encourage them to muster the willpower to stop smoking for a couple of hours.
Just open up a area at the back of the stands so those who wish to smoke, can, without affecting non-smokers. Smoking is a relaxant and one that is bloody needed at times watching us, besides this it will not be hurting anyone if all the smokers are out of the stadium. Pay a pound to use the area and the scheme has paid for itself to be marshalled giving employment to some who may not not otherwise have some.
Smoking in the bogs is anti-social I reckon we can all agree on that but people do it because they can get away with it. Don't make it right and the club probably doesn't have a duty to provide a facility for smoking but I think that would be the best fix for all
Below is a cut and paste from Wikipedia. The ban is enforced by Environmental Health, so if anyone feels angry enough they're the people to approach. Not the Police. If found guilty the club could face quite stiff penalties for not enforcing the ban.
"The ban is enforced by Environmental Health Officers in England, who issue warnings and offer advice before resorting to punitive measures and have had to issue a low frequency of fines since the law came into force. However, there were some objectors who generated higher-profile legal cases, for instance Hugh Howitt, also known as Hamish Howitt, the landlord of the Happy Scots Bar in Blackpool who was the first landlord to be prosecuted for permitting smoking in a smoke-free place under his control. On 2 August 2007, Howitt appeared before Blackpool Magistrates' Court and pleaded not guilty to 12 counts of failing to stop people smoking in his pub. On 2 December 2008, Howitt effectively had his premises licence revoked, after an appeal by Blackpool Council was upheld; he was not allowed to appeal, and Howitt had to close the Delboys Bar following the decision.[12] [13]
There have been some incidents of violence perpetrated by people refusing to obey the ban, in one of which a former heavyweight boxer, James Oyebola, was shot in the head after he asked a customer at a nightclub to stop smoking[14] and later died of his injuries.[15] However, the view of enforcement authorities is that the smoke-free workplace regulations are simple to understand, popular, and as a result largely 'self-policing'. For a short while, bars in the UK that offered Shisha (the smoking of flavoured tobacco through a pipe) were still allowed to provide their services inside the establishment, however the ban covered this area in late 2007 leading to a rapid decline in Shisha bars."
I am a non smoker who disagrees with the smoking ban BUT the smoking ban is in force so deal with it. The people on this thread that are saying provisions should be made for smokers, are you serious?? If you cannot go 2 hours without a cigarette then you have a serious problem, not to mention the fact you have an extremely selfish attitude in my view
I can see why the club want to pretend it's not happening and ignore it. I don't believe that there is any way that this can be solved completely to everyone's satisfaction. I can't see the ignorant smokers taking a stroll outside in the rain when there are perfectly dry toilets to smoke in so the smoking area will cost money (and I can't see smokers paying to use it) and will still not completely solve the problem.
I'd be interested to hear the replies (if any) that the club send out to those that email in and ask for it to be stopped.
It would stop the anti-social bog smoking and ensure those who wish to smoke, can. And those who, quite reasonably wish to avoid the blue haze are able to. Everyones happy. People don't smoke in the toilets because they NEED to, they do it because they can. If there is somewhere for them to go surely that pleases everyone?
I cannot see the club allowing fans to exit the ground to smoke is a designated area either. The only option for the North stand which seems to be the problem is to go out on the pavement which could lead to ticketless fans attempting to get in claiming they have been out for a smoke, plus away fans might fancy their chances of coming round and causing trouble knowing home fans are out in the street at half time.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
I cannot see the club allowing fans to exit the ground to smoke is a designated area either. The only option for the North stand which seems to be the problem is to go out on the pavement which could lead to ticketless fans attempting to get in claiming they have been out for a smoke, plus away fans might fancy their chances of coming round and causing trouble knowing home fans are out in the street at half time.
I see that as a hurdle not as a reason not to give it a go..
For games against side that are likely to lay siege to the north stand then knock it on the head and as far as ticketless fans trying to get in.... I'm not having that!
Not trawling at all, and I'm an ex smoker (4 years) who really misses smoking. Taking up smoking at the age of 12, when it was 'cool', is one of the only regrets I have in life. It took me 48 years to pack it in. It's one of the most addictive drugs ever put out there and I honestly believe the higher the price on smokes and the more places to smoke are limited, the better.......this would obviously invlude the Valley. By having smoking areas it's indirectly promoting smoking, which is the point I was trying to make, albeit rather bluntly.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
I totally agree DRF, but human nature being what it is there are far too many who are too selfish (borderline sociopathic) so take responsibility for their own actions.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
Simply put, I don't think the club will do anything unless it's hand is forced. This means somebody being willing to report the club to environmental health and therefore introduce the risk of a large fine. The club would then be forced to weigh up the costs of creating outside smoking areas against the cost of repeated fines for failing to stop smoking inside.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
Why is the answer always to make someone else enforce it? It really is simply. Stop being totally bloody selfish, stop breaking the law and stop smoking in the goddamn toilets.
Not really how things get resolved though is it?
From both points of view no matter how extreme and selfish one or the other may seem the solution can be found as a compromise somewhere in the middle. No two ways about it smoking in the toilets or indoors is not on but even the most casual of social smokers can be stressed out to the the point of gasping for a cigarette. Not an excuse I know. But all the while smoking in the toilets is tolerated iy will carry on
Comments
Edit: In my 50 + years of following Charlton, not once did I hear a parent say they were worried about there children's health because of smokers. Only since the smoking ban have I heard complaints.
I think there is a direct correlation between the ban and me not being able to light up a lucky cigarette if we are drawing/losing with ten minutes to go.
Those who smoke in the toilets are just wrong - what do they do on planes?
The provision of a smoking area would be good, but the lack of one does not justify smoking in the toilets.
Is this just a problem in the mens toilets?
Obviously the main debate is about smoking in the toilets which is against the law therefore wrong, but for the guy who is moaning about smoking in the high street - just how much bubble wrap was you wrapped in growing up?
I actually blame the club. They seem to have policed the smoking ban in such a way as to force smokers that were spread out and in the open air and pretty much not doing anyone any harm into a concentrated group in an enclosed space that non-smokers and children will have to use. We'd all have been better off if they'd left it as it was! Or, given the law now, if they just provided an outdoor smoking area, I can't believe it's that hard to do. Either way, allowing people to smoke in the toilets is the most stupid option of all.
Without getting into whether people should need to smoke or not during that period, clearly there are a fair few that feel that they do and are prepared to break the rules to do so. In that instance, I would suggest that the easiest way of addressing this would be just to provide an outdoor smoking area. I'm only talking a designated outdoor space, I wouldn't expect them to furnish it with luxuries and home comforts.
It's not really a moral argument, just a path of least resistance.
Someone should let Ballotelli know this - only person i know of who holds his displays in toilets.
Smoking in the bogs is anti-social I reckon we can all agree on that but people do it because they can get away with it. Don't make it right and the club probably doesn't have a duty to provide a facility for smoking but I think that would be the best fix for all
If found guilty the club could face quite stiff penalties for not enforcing the ban.
"The ban is enforced by Environmental Health Officers in England, who issue warnings and offer advice before resorting to punitive measures and have had to issue a low frequency of fines since the law came into force. However, there were some objectors who generated higher-profile legal cases, for instance Hugh Howitt, also known as Hamish Howitt, the landlord of the Happy Scots Bar in Blackpool who was the first landlord to be prosecuted for permitting smoking in a smoke-free place under his control. On 2 August 2007, Howitt appeared before Blackpool Magistrates' Court and pleaded not guilty to 12 counts of failing to stop people smoking in his pub. On 2 December 2008, Howitt effectively had his premises licence revoked, after an appeal by Blackpool Council was upheld; he was not allowed to appeal, and Howitt had to close the Delboys Bar following the decision.[12] [13]
There have been some incidents of violence perpetrated by people refusing to obey the ban, in one of which a former heavyweight boxer, James Oyebola, was shot in the head after he asked a customer at a nightclub to stop smoking[14] and later died of his injuries.[15] However, the view of enforcement authorities is that the smoke-free workplace regulations are simple to understand, popular, and as a result largely 'self-policing'. For a short while, bars in the UK that offered Shisha (the smoking of flavoured tobacco through a pipe) were still allowed to provide their services inside the establishment, however the ban covered this area in late 2007 leading to a rapid decline in Shisha bars."
I'd be interested to hear the replies (if any) that the club send out to those that email in and ask for it to be stopped.
It's not a step I'd be keen to take, but if the situation is getting worse (I've only been to a handful of games this calendar year), then it is something that will happen sooner or later it seems.
I see that as a hurdle not as a reason not to give it a go..
For games against side that are likely to lay siege to the north stand then knock it on the head and as far as ticketless fans trying to get in.... I'm not having that!
From both points of view no matter how extreme and selfish one or the other may seem the solution can be found as a compromise somewhere in the middle. No two ways about it smoking in the toilets or indoors is not on but even the most casual of social smokers can be stressed out to the the point of gasping for a cigarette. Not an excuse I know. But all the while smoking in the toilets is tolerated iy will carry on