Who needs a 20-goal a season striker when we've got Jacko!
PS: It's been an exciting day down here in Sunny Cornwall: the sun shone for the first time in 8 soggy days, I mowed the lawn - and even more amazingly, 3 points on the road!
Who needs a 20-goal a season striker when we've got Jacko!
PS: It's been an exciting day down here in Sunny Cornwall: the sun shone for the first time in 8 soggy days, I mowed the lawn - and even more amazingly, 3 points on the road!
An absolute true legend in my eyes. Almost of Mark Kinsella status.
But before we get carried away, sorry to say its only 49 goals
10/11 14 goals (13 league, 1 FA Cup) 11/12 13 goals (12 league, 1 FA Cup) 12/13 12 goals (12 league) 13/14 5 goals (5 league) 14/15 2 goals (2 league0 15/16 3 goals (3 League)
Confusion over a goal scored at Luton in a cup replay where Jackson took a free kick but it deflected in off Racon and was credited to Racon.
So still needs one more for the big 50.
I must admit I was always one to welcome the debate about whether or not JJ still has it. There can be no question anymore in my mind. He's a great player and I can understand why some people hold him in such high regard and even call him a Charlton legend. I don't completely dismiss my earlier comments on this thread, because I always put them across constructively, but ultimately in response to the original poster's title, no, his time his certainly not up.
It's also the importance of the last few goals now. QPR and Watford 2 seasons ago, Norwich away last season. the goal back against Fulham this season, and now this winner. It's the way he seems to pop up and get them at crucial times.
What is interesting, and what did contribute to the debate IMO, is if you look at the first three seasons, that's a hell of a rate of scoring, however, in the 3 seasons since, it's only 10 goals (albeit more vital IMO and we still have over half this season to go). So you could say that because goals were such a big part of his game, to slow down to an average of 3.5 over the last 2 seasons from just under 13 in the 3 seasons before that, would have some bearing around the debate.
I'm not having a pop at him before anyone starts, I'm just saying that could've been a factor in people's arguments.
And I also recognise everything he does outside of his goal record. The great captain and leader etc
Who needs a 20-goal a season striker when we've got Jacko!
PS: It's been an exciting day down here in Sunny Cornwall: the sun shone for the first time in 8 soggy days, I mowed the lawn - and even more amazingly, 3 points on the road!
caught speeding mate?
Got to respect a mower that can move at those speeds. Must have shifted it from tortoise to hare setting
The goal return Of Johnnie had dried up for a few reasons ? He not only had lost the penalty taking but hardly got a look in on the Free kicks over the last two seasons, plus he was playing a more defensive role where he hardly got a chance to attack the box, plus the niggles he was picking up meant he was unsure of his place or got subbed before the final 15 minutes of matches and couldn't perform to his best.
I praised JJ last season as one of our great Captains, on and off the pitch and the main reason why we didn't totally implode with all the problems with the Owner.
Like others i have wanted Jackson to be given a player coaching role and not let him move on. I did say it seemed like it was diminishing returns with JJ as a player but even if this is an Indian summer in JJ playing Career, Long may it last because who ever takes over being Captain, Will find like Solly has; that he has big boots to fill.
An absolute true legend in my eyes. Almost of Mark Kinsella status.
But before we get carried away, sorry to say its only 49 goals
10/11 14 goals (13 league, 1 FA Cup) 11/12 13 goals (12 league, 1 FA Cup) 12/13 12 goals (12 league) 13/14 5 goals (5 league) 14/15 2 goals (2 league0 15/16 3 goals (3 League)
Confusion over a goal scored at Luton in a cup replay where Jackson took a free kick but it deflected in off Racon and was credited to Racon.
So still needs one more for the big 50.
I must admit I was always one to welcome the debate about whether or not JJ still has it. There can be no question anymore in my mind. He's a great player and I can understand why some people hold him in such high regard and even call him a Charlton legend. I don't completely dismiss my earlier comments on this thread, because I always put them across constructively, but ultimately in response to the original poster's title, no, his time his certainly not up.
It's also the importance of the last few goals now. QPR and Watford 2 seasons ago, Norwich away last season. the goal back against Fulham this season, and now this winner. It's the way he seems to pop up and get them at crucial times.
What is interesting, and what did contribute to the debate IMO, is if you look at the first three seasons, that's a hell of a rate of scoring, however, in the 3 seasons since, it's only 10 goals (albeit more vital IMO and we still have over half this season to go). So you could say that because goals were such a big part of his game, to slow down to an average of 3.5 over the last 2 seasons from just under 13 in the 3 seasons before that, would have some bearing around the debate.
I'm not having a pop at him before anyone starts, I'm just saying that could've been a factor in people's arguments.
And I also recognise everything he does outside of his goal record. The great captain and leader etc
Could even say his goal against Sheffield Wednesday was just as important, we were having chances yet it could have been a mirror match to the Brentford game, instead, Jackos goal settled the team and we cracked on
An absolute true legend in my eyes. Almost of Mark Kinsella status.
But before we get carried away, sorry to say its only 49 goals
10/11 14 goals (13 league, 1 FA Cup) 11/12 13 goals (12 league, 1 FA Cup) 12/13 12 goals (12 league) 13/14 5 goals (5 league) 14/15 2 goals (2 league0 15/16 3 goals (3 League)
Confusion over a goal scored at Luton in a cup replay where Jackson took a free kick but it deflected in off Racon and was credited to Racon.
So still needs one more for the big 50.
I must admit I was always one to welcome the debate about whether or not JJ still has it. There can be no question anymore in my mind. He's a great player and I can understand why some people hold him in such high regard and even call him a Charlton legend. I don't completely dismiss my earlier comments on this thread, because I always put them across constructively, but ultimately in response to the original poster's title, no, his time his certainly not up.
It's also the importance of the last few goals now. QPR and Watford 2 seasons ago, Norwich away last season. the goal back against Fulham this season, and now this winner. It's the way he seems to pop up and get them at crucial times.
What is interesting, and what did contribute to the debate IMO, is if you look at the first three seasons, that's a hell of a rate of scoring, however, in the 3 seasons since, it's only 10 goals (albeit more vital IMO and we still have over half this season to go). So you could say that because goals were such a big part of his game, to slow down to an average of 3.5 over the last 2 seasons from just under 13 in the 3 seasons before that, would have some bearing around the debate.
I'm not having a pop at him before anyone starts, I'm just saying that could've been a factor in people's arguments.
And I also recognise everything he does outside of his goal record. The great captain and leader etc
Let's not forget the goals against the Sheffield's in our promotion winning campaign. He always comes up with the goods when we need him. It's bewildering to me how people can write him off when he consistently shows that he merits his place in the team. Not just for his goals, but he does manage to fire up his team mates and the support when required.
If you can find the many other "Jackson is useless/past it" thread/comments (and not just Colin's) you'll read how he was only in Powell's team because SCP had favourites.
Yet when he's fit he's been picked consistently by Riga, Peeters, Luzon and now Fraeye.
I'll be the first to admit that at one point I didn't exactly write him off but did think his days would be limited to cameo's and forced inclusions.
I'll also admit I was completely wrong. The bloke is a key part of the squad and deserves every single bit of praise he gets. Charlton legendary status for certain. I really hope that our owners recognise his importance and offer him a coaching role once the great man decides to call it a day.
Worst stage of the game today came after Jackson was subbed, think in a team playing better football like we did today he will be a better player for us. Is he past his best? Yeah probably but that doesn't mean he should be out the team. Think with so many young/loan player's a leader like Jacko is vital!!!
Didn't realise I commented before but glad I did. Have never doubted him and never will.
To be fair, I think most people expected Jackon to be more of a bit part player this season. His song talks of him running down the wing but he hasn't done much of that for a while now. He's adapted well to playing central midfield but the signs were last season that time was catching up with him.
The renaissance is well under way with him though.
Part of what makes him special is he often finds his best form and biggest moments when the chips are down. This is one such time.
Don't think you can underestimated how the diamond midfield helps him either. Young legs in Cousins or Ba next to him, plenty of players to feed and link up with ahead of him and, perhaps most importantly of all, Diarra sat behind him to fill any gaps Jacko might leave. With all that help in midfield there is less need for him to cover every blade of grass, instead he can focus on quality, rather than quantity, of movement and use that big football brain of his to be in the right places at the right time.
Playing in a 442 he may have still been by the halfway line yesterday, instead of arriving bang on cue to thump home that header.
Nothing wrong with any of that of course. Jacko is still our best on field leader and our biggest midfield goal threat, nothing wrong with adjusting tactics to help get the best from him, especially as it appears to be helping other individuals and the team in general.
The thing about Jackson is that you need to play to his strengths, the main one is his ability to score vital goals from midfield. Not the same level as player obviously, but Frank Lampard was brilliant at that, being able to find space around the box which other players don't and bury the ball in the net.
Playing Jackson as a defensive sitting midfielder doesn't work as while he will give 100%, he isn't that good at it.
The thing about Jackson is that you need to play to his strengths...
Playing Jackson as a defensive sitting midfielder doesn't work as while he will give 100%, he isn't that good at it.
I dunno, I believe Jackson is fairly decent sitting as the defensive midfielder - positioning, covering, tackling and passing is all competent. But as you say, that doesn't allow him to play to all his strengths.
His scoring seasons weren't just made up with a couple of pens and freekicks ........ many of his goals came from his ghosting into the box with a late run from deep on the left. Nicky Bailey, you'll recall, also scored plenty using the same ploy.
The diamond midfield with Diarra sitting is allowing defensive players to make forward runs, knowing their own position is covered (Andy Hughes did the same in our 101 point season). It might still give Jacko the opportunity to make one of his old trademark late runs into the box?
The thing about Jackson is that you need to play to his strengths...
Playing Jackson as a defensive sitting midfielder doesn't work as while he will give 100%, he isn't that good at it.
I dunno, I believe Jackson is fairly decent sitting as the defensive midfielder - positioning, covering, tackling and passing is all competent. But as you say, that doesn't allow him to play to all his strengths.
His scoring seasons weren't just made up with a couple of pens and freekicks ........ many of his goals came from his ghosting into the box with a late run from deep on the left. Nicky Bailey, you'll recall, also scored plenty using the same ploy.
The diamond midfield with Diarra sitting is allowing defensive players to make forward runs, knowing their own position is covered (Andy Hughes did the same in our 101 point season). It might still give Jacko the opportunity to make one of his old trademark late runs into the box?
That's basically summed it up - Jackson has that rare ability to 'ghost' into the box and get on the end of things, he does this better than most midfielders we have had in recent times.
The only one better in my memory as scoring these kinds of goals would be Lee Bowyer although Nicky Bailey was pretty decent in League One at scoring these kinds of goals and Matty Holland had a purple patch in the Premier League but was not really a regular scorer (13 goals in 190 games!).
The key to these players success is the timing of the run, you can't go too early or you get picked up and go too late and the chance will be gone, just like on Saturday you have to hit the gap at the exact second the opportunity exists, once its gone its gone.
In my opinion JJ can’t play 90 minutes week in week out in a 4-4-2. But this new system spreads the load and then you have his qualities which have always been there. Basically, he knows where the goal is. A successful team can’t just rely on the strikers to get their goals.
Johnnie Jackson @johnnie_jackson 12h12 hours ago Fantastic morning meeting the kids @DemelzaHospice...the work the staff do there is truly incredible...Heroes the lot of you x
The thing about Jackson is that you need to play to his strengths...
Playing Jackson as a defensive sitting midfielder doesn't work as while he will give 100%, he isn't that good at it.
I dunno, I believe Jackson is fairly decent sitting as the defensive midfielder - positioning, covering, tackling and passing is all competent. But as you say, that doesn't allow him to play to all his strengths.
His scoring seasons weren't just made up with a couple of pens and freekicks ........ many of his goals came from his ghosting into the box with a late run from deep on the left. Nicky Bailey, you'll recall, also scored plenty using the same ploy.
The diamond midfield with Diarra sitting is allowing defensive players to make forward runs, knowing their own position is covered (Andy Hughes did the same in our 101 point season). It might still give Jacko the opportunity to make one of his old trademark late runs into the box?
That's basically summed it up - Jackson has that rare ability to 'ghost' into the box and get on the end of things, he does this better than most midfielders we have had in recent times.
The only one better in my memory as scoring these kinds of goals would be Lee Bowyer although Nicky Bailey was pretty decent in League One at scoring these kinds of goals and Matty Holland had a purple patch in the Premier League but was not really a regular scorer (13 goals in 190 games!).
The key to these players success is the timing of the run, you can't go too early or you get picked up and go too late and the chance will be gone, just like on Saturday you have to hit the gap at the exact second the opportunity exists, once its gone its gone.
Pardew was also good at that as well when he played for us.
Frank Lampard was the master of this sort of play, you see the number of goals he scored and you'd think he was a forward, but he would never as been as effective playing up front, as he wouldn't have found the space that he did
He probably had his worst game today ever in a Charlton shirt, but he'll know that. It's a conundrum because as I said to you on the Oxford post match thread, I still think he has a role to play. But the whole team need to look like they're on fire. When play as badly as we did today, Jackson is very much exposed.
The way he celebrated against Oxford last week shows how much he cares, and I still think he should be in the team this season, but he needs more around him than Crofts and Ulvestad.
Would frankly rather he was managing us than Slade at the moment. Not good enough on the pitch perhaps but can't be any worse than the waste of oxygen on the touchline.
But what role? What role? He was dreadful behind the striker today, he was dreadful on the left on Tuesday, he was dreadful in central midfield today. Where can he play? What remains? His only use is as a late substitute when we're chasing the game as he has striking instincts in a box scramble, but even today, he had a clear chance towards the end, but just wasn't quick enough to beat the defender to it when it was probably a 70-30 in his favour to begin with.
He probably had his worst game today ever in a Charlton shirt, but he'll know that. It's a conundrum because as I said to you on the Oxford post match thread, I still think he has a role to play. But the whole team need to look like they're on fire. When play as badly as we did today, Jackson is very much exposed.
The way he celebrated against Oxford last week shows how much he cares, and I still think he should be in the team this season, but he needs more around him than Crofts and Ulvestad.
But caring doesn't make up for a lack of technical or tactical understanding, or the fact that he is completely anonymous in games. It makes for a great ambassador and ceremonial role, and perhaps as an impact sub, but it's not enough to be an effective midfielder.
But what role? What role? He was dreadful behind the striker today, he was dreadful on the left on Tuesday, he was dreadful in central midfield today. Where can he play? What remains? His only use is as a late substitute when we're chasing the game as he has striking instincts in a box scramble, but even today, he had a clear chance towards the end, but just wasn't quick enough to beat the defender to it when it was probably a 70-30 in his favour to begin with.
Well this is it. Maybe that is a role given the current set up around him in central midfield. As I've said before, I've always been one to question the phalanx of support he's had, given what needs to be done to accommodate his lack of pace. Yet, now more than ever we need his leadership, and he may still chip in with key goals.....that's why it's such a conundrum
Comments
Who needs a 20-goal a season striker when we've got Jacko!
PS: It's been an exciting day down here in Sunny Cornwall: the sun shone for the first time in 8 soggy days, I mowed the lawn - and even more amazingly, 3 points on the road!
It's also the importance of the last few goals now. QPR and Watford 2 seasons ago, Norwich away last season. the goal back against Fulham this season, and now this winner. It's the way he seems to pop up and get them at crucial times.
What is interesting, and what did contribute to the debate IMO, is if you look at the first three seasons, that's a hell of a rate of scoring, however, in the 3 seasons since, it's only 10 goals (albeit more vital IMO and we still have over half this season to go). So you could say that because goals were such a big part of his game, to slow down to an average of 3.5 over the last 2 seasons from just under 13 in the 3 seasons before that, would have some bearing around the debate.
I'm not having a pop at him before anyone starts, I'm just saying that could've been a factor in people's arguments.
And I also recognise everything he does outside of his goal record. The great captain and leader etc
He not only had lost the penalty taking but hardly got a look in on the Free kicks
over the last two seasons, plus he was playing a more defensive role where he hardly got a chance to attack the box, plus the niggles he was picking up meant he was unsure of his place or got subbed before the final 15 minutes of matches and couldn't perform to his best.
I praised JJ last season as one of our great Captains, on and off the pitch and the main reason why we didn't totally implode with all the problems with the Owner.
Like others i have wanted Jackson to be given a player coaching role and not let him move on. I did say it seemed like it was diminishing returns with JJ as a player
but even if this is an Indian summer in JJ playing Career, Long may it last because who ever takes over being Captain, Will find like Solly has; that he has big boots to fill.
Yet when he's fit he's been picked consistently by Riga, Peeters, Luzon and now Fraeye.
Must offer something
I'll also admit I was completely wrong. The bloke is a key part of the squad and deserves every single bit of praise he gets. Charlton legendary status for certain. I really hope that our owners recognise his importance and offer him a coaching role once the great man decides to call it a day.
Proper footballer.
The renaissance is well under way with him though.
Part of what makes him special is he often finds his best form and biggest moments when the chips are down. This is one such time.
Don't think you can underestimated how the diamond midfield helps him either. Young legs in Cousins or Ba next to him, plenty of players to feed and link up with ahead of him and, perhaps most importantly of all, Diarra sat behind him to fill any gaps Jacko might leave. With all that help in midfield there is less need for him to cover every blade of grass, instead he can focus on quality, rather than quantity, of movement and use that big football brain of his to be in the right places at the right time.
Playing in a 442 he may have still been by the halfway line yesterday, instead of arriving bang on cue to thump home that header.
Nothing wrong with any of that of course. Jacko is still our best on field leader and our biggest midfield goal threat, nothing wrong with adjusting tactics to help get the best from him, especially as it appears to be helping other individuals and the team in general.
Playing Jackson as a defensive sitting midfielder doesn't work as while he will give 100%, he isn't that good at it.
His scoring seasons weren't just made up with a couple of pens and freekicks ........ many of his goals came from his ghosting into the box with a late run from deep on the left. Nicky Bailey, you'll recall, also scored plenty using the same ploy.
The diamond midfield with Diarra sitting is allowing defensive players to make forward runs, knowing their own position is covered (Andy Hughes did the same in our 101 point season). It might still give Jacko the opportunity to make one of his old trademark late runs into the box?
The only one better in my memory as scoring these kinds of goals would be Lee Bowyer although Nicky Bailey was pretty decent in League One at scoring these kinds of goals and Matty Holland had a purple patch in the Premier League but was not really a regular scorer (13 goals in 190 games!).
The key to these players success is the timing of the run, you can't go too early or you get picked up and go too late and the chance will be gone, just like on Saturday you have to hit the gap at the exact second the opportunity exists, once its gone its gone.
Fantastic morning meeting the kids @DemelzaHospice...the work the staff do there is truly incredible...Heroes the lot of you x
Frank Lampard was the master of this sort of play, you see the number of goals he scored and you'd think he was a forward, but he would never as been as effective playing up front, as he wouldn't have found the space that he did
The way he celebrated against Oxford last week shows how much he cares, and I still think he should be in the team this season, but he needs more around him than Crofts and Ulvestad.