Anyone else on here lucky enough to visit Inverliever Lodge in Argyllshire when they were at school? The ILEA leased it and lots of London Comps like my school Crown Woods regularly went there. I had two visits there in 1978 and 1980. A most wonderful place, it was on a hill that looked over Loch Awe. I have not travelled the whole world but I find it hard to believe there are more beautiful places than the West Highlands of Scotland.
Yes, I went to Inverliever with Eaglesfield School on an art trip around 1983-4 I think. We joined up with a load of girls from Kidbrooke School. Inverliever was a most beautiful place I ever visited and remember there was a little island you could get to out on the Loch. I remember my first oil painting of that scene from up in the hills. I also remember nearly losing the tip of index finger when using a potato slicer in the kitchen. That was also my first experience of my body going into shock.
Went to Inverliever with my school, Thomas Tallis in 1997 and 1999 - incredible place, wonder if schools still use it.
No more I'm afraid. I believe the last time Tallis went was around the year 2000 or so. The regular residential trip these days is to Tyn y Berth which is in West Wales. It's a good outdoor activity centre and that part of Wales is very scenic, but by all accounts it's nothing like Inverliever.
You make seem good points grapevine. I am not sure that anyone is sure how this could pan out and think both Scotland and the rest of the uk could lose out. Lots of non scots saying get on with it we dont care, but it it was that simple the government would not be pulling out all the stops to keep the union together.
I'm not sure they are "pulling out all the stops" as you put it - although I'm sure Mr Salmond would love everybody to think that. It's true that it's very rare for the three major parties to be in agreement, and it's true that there have been a few statements from the PM and others recently. But it's not as if there's some huge campaign going on, is it?
The government has a duty to protect its people (and the opposition parties have an important role in this as well). As it stands, the people of Scotland are currently UK citizens. It would therefore be fundamentally wrong the UK government to have certain facts concerning the outcome of the referendum and to keep them from the Scottish people.
Having rad all this pish I'm actually coming round to the idea that independence might be a decent idea. The average IQ goes up by about 10, we'd have the army, we'd have the oil and guaranteed domination of the tennis home internationals for the foreseeable. Not sure that an entirely separate currency would be a bad thing, although doubt that wee George's threats have much weight. The reaction of large global businesses will determine whether the wee man "allows" currency union, not a little england ear trying to swing his winkie about.
Having rad all this pish I'm actually coming round to the idea that independence might be a decent idea. The average IQ goes up by about 10, we'd have the army, we'd have the oil and guaranteed domination of the tennis home internationals for the foreseeable. Not sure that an entirely separate currency would be a bad thing, although doubt that wee George's threats have much weight. The reaction of large global businesses will determine whether the wee man "allows" currency union, not a little england ear trying to swing his winkie about.
Having listen to all the pish I'm actually coming round to the idea of a trial seperation. If us (whats left of the UK) like life on our own, may be, it will best if we go our seperate ways.
Having rad all this pish I'm actually coming round to the idea that independence might be a decent idea. The average IQ goes up by about 10, we'd have the army, we'd have the oil and guaranteed domination of the tennis home internationals for the foreseeable. Not sure that an entirely separate currency would be a bad thing, although doubt that wee George's threats have much weight. The reaction of large global businesses will determine whether the wee man "allows" currency union, not a little england ear trying to swing his winkie about.
Except for the SAS - which seems to be made up entirely of: Posh twats who don't do any actual fighting Scotsmen Bear Grylls
Having rad all this pish I'm actually coming round to the idea that independence might be a decent idea. The average IQ goes up by about 10, we'd have the army, we'd have the oil and guaranteed domination of the tennis home internationals for the foreseeable. Not sure that an entirely separate currency would be a bad thing, although doubt that wee George's threats have much weight. The reaction of large global businesses will determine whether the wee man "allows" currency union, not a little england ear trying to swing his winkie about.
Yes, about that oil which is so central to Salmond's increasingly preposterous plans....
i do not liek politics i think its so f****** boring. have you ever thought of this, why should someone who is from a class that is way above the average of everyone else bar a few people, allowed to rule over everyone. shouldn't someone who just knows what it is like to experience probles that relate to teh majority of peoples problems. i am not asking for a herion dealer, jsut saying that how can they judge if they cant even relate. and for that i see no point in voting since it is a waste of time.
I'm guessing that politics isn't taught in schools any more...
i do not liek politics i think its so f****** boring. have you ever thought of this, why should someone who is from a class that is way above the average of everyone else bar a few people, allowed to rule over everyone. shouldn't someone who just knows what it is like to experience probles that relate to teh majority of peoples problems. i am not asking for a herion dealer, jsut saying that how can they judge if they cant even relate. and for that i see no point in voting since it is a waste of time.
I'm guessing that politics isn't taught in schools any more...
i do not liek politics i think its so f****** boring. have you ever thought of this, why should someone who is from a class that is way above the average of everyone else bar a few people, allowed to rule over everyone. shouldn't someone who just knows what it is like to experience probles that relate to teh majority of peoples problems. i am not asking for a herion dealer, jsut saying that how can they judge if they cant even relate. and for that i see no point in voting since it is a waste of time.
I'm guessing that politics isn't taught in schools any more...
i do not liek politics i think its so f****** boring. have you ever thought of this, why should someone who is from a class that is way above the average of everyone else bar a few people, allowed to rule over everyone. shouldn't someone who just knows what it is like to experience probles that relate to teh majority of peoples problems. i am not asking for a herion dealer, jsut saying that how can they judge if they cant even relate. and for that i see no point in voting since it is a waste of time.
I'm guessing that politics isn't taught in schools any more...
Or spelling
Easy to criticise young Jack's (14 I think he is) post semantically but his underlying point is a good one.
Increasing numbers of people feel disenfranchised by 3 major parties with scarce a fag paper between them despite all the wind and piss rhetoric and the leaders, despite tuition in PR, hardly relate to Mr, Mrs and Ms Average.
The issue I find is that any promise that the major parties do make that does differentiate them from the other two they never follow up on. Blair's 'education education education' promise was broken within a couple of years, LibDem's promise to not to vote for higher tuition fees was broken pretty much immediately and the both the Tories & Lib Dems failed to ensure to hold a vote on EU membership, despite the fact both promised this in 2010.
Ed Miliband is breaking records with this one at the moment, since pretty much every 'policy of the week' he comes up with is quickly proven to either be at odds with EU legislation or is simply unaffordable or unworkable. It takes a special one to break a promise before you even get into a position to break it.
I'm very interested in this whole issue, having such an affection for the Scots and their beautiful country.
Whenever I read the pro-independence comments underneath online newspaper articles, I can't help thinking of this fella - I've occasionally met a couple of them in my forays north of the border:
i do not liek politics i think its so f****** boring. have you ever thought of this, why should someone who is from a class that is way above the average of everyone else bar a few people, allowed to rule over everyone. shouldn't someone who just knows what it is like to experience probles that relate to teh majority of peoples problems. i am not asking for a herion dealer, jsut saying that how can they judge if they cant even relate. and for that i see no point in voting since it is a waste of time.
I'm guessing that politics isn't taught in schools any more...
Or spelling
Easy to criticise young Jack's (14 I think he is) post semantically but his underlying point is a good one.
Increasing numbers of people feel disenfranchised by 3 major parties with scarce a fag paper between them despite all the wind and piss rhetoric and the leaders, despite tuition in PR, hardly relate to Mr, Mrs and Ms Average.
What's the LenGlover number for Scottish independence Len? Got to be a '1', surely?
Not much time to read fully and respond as I am on lunch.
No, I am not Scottish. I think independence would be slightly worse for Scotland than staying in the UK and have said Scotland will vote no.
The ASI article is theoretical (economic) right-wing stuff and would not be popular. All the same, the fact is Scotland can unilaterally adopt the pound. The issue is whether Scotland (but not Holyrood) would be consulted on BoE decisions.
Refusing Scotland a seat at the table is not without consequences. There's the debt, as you say, how it affects other negotiations, and potential transactions costs.
The idea of using anti-terror legislation to economically sabotage the UK's closest neighbour and closest ally sounds like a very stupid idea. Alright maybe for a few weeks for someone on the south coast with no customers in Scotland, but how about for businesses dependent on Scottish customers/suppliers or anyone (say, around Newcastle/Middlesbrough) who works offshore (flying out of Aberdeen for companies based there)? At least the ASI tried to consider the implications of their suggestion.
"Another British voice" in Europe sounds like it might be unpopular, but there's not much suggestion that Scotland would be any more "difficult" than somewhere like Denmark or Ireland or Finland. Neither UKIP nor the Conservatives have any major hold in Scotland. When Nigel Farage campaigned in Edinburgh (for a seat only 100 miles away in Aberdeen), he was chased into a pub and protesters said he was a racist. Anyway, Cameron's going to have a referendum on leaving the EU.
I think you're using the wrong word and possibly the wrong analogy when you mention "taxes" going into the BoE
For all of Salmond's many faults, I think it's a tad unfair to criticise him for there being no negotiated outcomes. The civil service said that they would not pre-negotiate before the result of the referendum. Given that I think Scotland will comfortably vote no, that's good use of my tax (ie not spending lots of money negotiating for something that won't happen).
I don't have to be Scottish to have this opinion. I just think that in the unlikely event of a yes vote, both sides will do as much as they can to keep day-to-day life much the same for ordinary citizens on both sides.
In my parochial way, I hadn't realised that Wales isn't represented in the Union Flag because it was just part of England when the flag was designed. I bet the Welsh know that though! Then, as the article says there's Australia, NZ, and the Hawaii State flags to think about.
Can't say as I care much for any of the suggestions. Perhaps Stig could come up with some ideas?
If Scotland seceded from the Union would they still be considered "British"?
The British Isles is a geographical term and Scotland would still be part of the British Isles as is the whole of Ireland. The United Kingdom is the political term for the union as it stands.
For all of Salmond's many faults, I think it's a tad unfair to criticise him for there being no negotiated outcomes. The civil service said that they would not pre-negotiate before the result of the referendum. Given that I think Scotland will comfortably vote no, that's good use of my tax (ie not spending lots of money negotiating for something that won't happen).
That's all well and good, but if Salmond is not in a position to pre-negotiate anything, he shouldn't pretend that all the things that require negotiating such as EU membership, NATO membership, currency union, split up of public services are all definitely going to happen the way he says it is. He went out said he had received legal advice that Scotland would definitely inherit EU membership, NATO etc and when asked to produce this legal advice, he spent hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money covering up the fact that not only did he not have any legal advice this tune, he hadn't even bothered to seek it in the first place.
Even by politician's standards the man is an odious two-faced lying creep and it looks like Scotland is finally waking up to the massive con-trick him and his Rottweiler Sturgeon are pulling on them all.
The biggest problem with Scottish independence will be played out in Belfast and Londonderry. Salmond wants power in his fiefdom, we'll all pay the bill.
In my parochial way, I hadn't realised that Wales isn't represented in the Union Flag because it was just part of England when the flag was designed. I bet the Welsh know that though! Then, as the article says there's Australia, NZ, and the Hawaii State flags to think about.
Can't say as I care much for any of the suggestions. Perhaps Stig could come up with some ideas?
Comments
The regular residential trip these days is to Tyn y Berth which is in West Wales. It's a good outdoor activity centre and that part of Wales is very scenic, but by all accounts it's nothing like Inverliever.
The government has a duty to protect its people (and the opposition parties have an important role in this as well). As it stands, the people of Scotland are currently UK citizens. It would therefore be fundamentally wrong the UK government to have certain facts concerning the outcome of the referendum and to keep them from the Scottish people.
If us (whats left of the UK) like life on our own, may be, it will best if we go our seperate ways.
Rab C Nesbit i reckon.
Posh twats who don't do any actual fighting
Scotsmen
Bear Grylls
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10633632/OPEC-says-North-Sea-oil-output-to-hit-new-lows.html
Increasing numbers of people feel disenfranchised by 3 major parties with scarce a fag paper between them despite all the
wind and pissrhetoric and the leaders, despite tuition in PR, hardly relate to Mr, Mrs and Ms Average.Ed Miliband is breaking records with this one at the moment, since pretty much every 'policy of the week' he comes up with is quickly proven to either be at odds with EU legislation or is simply unaffordable or unworkable. It takes a special one to break a promise before you even get into a position to break it.
Whenever I read the pro-independence comments underneath online newspaper articles, I can't help thinking of this fella - I've occasionally met a couple of them in my forays north of the border:
Bastard English!
Not much time to read fully and respond as I am on lunch.
No, I am not Scottish. I think independence would be slightly worse for Scotland than staying in the UK and have said Scotland will vote no.
The ASI article is theoretical (economic) right-wing stuff and would not be popular. All the same, the fact is Scotland can unilaterally adopt the pound. The issue is whether Scotland (but not Holyrood) would be consulted on BoE decisions.
Refusing Scotland a seat at the table is not without consequences. There's the debt, as you say, how it affects other negotiations, and potential transactions costs.
The idea of using anti-terror legislation to economically sabotage the UK's closest neighbour and closest ally sounds like a very stupid idea. Alright maybe for a few weeks for someone on the south coast with no customers in Scotland, but how about for businesses dependent on Scottish customers/suppliers or anyone (say, around Newcastle/Middlesbrough) who works offshore (flying out of Aberdeen for companies based there)? At least the ASI tried to consider the implications of their suggestion.
"Another British voice" in Europe sounds like it might be unpopular, but there's not much suggestion that Scotland would be any more "difficult" than somewhere like Denmark or Ireland or Finland. Neither UKIP nor the Conservatives have any major hold in Scotland. When Nigel Farage campaigned in Edinburgh (for a seat only 100 miles away in Aberdeen), he was chased into a pub and protesters said he was a racist. Anyway, Cameron's going to have a referendum on leaving the EU.
I think you're using the wrong word and possibly the wrong analogy when you mention "taxes" going into the BoE
For all of Salmond's many faults, I think it's a tad unfair to criticise him for there being no negotiated outcomes. The civil service said that they would not pre-negotiate before the result of the referendum. Given that I think Scotland will comfortably vote no, that's good use of my tax (ie not spending lots of money negotiating for something that won't happen).
I don't have to be Scottish to have this opinion. I just think that in the unlikely event of a yes vote, both sides will do as much as they can to keep day-to-day life much the same for ordinary citizens on both sides.
In my parochial way, I hadn't realised that Wales isn't represented in the Union Flag because it was just part of England when the flag was designed. I bet the Welsh know that though! Then, as the article says there's Australia, NZ, and the Hawaii State flags to think about.
Can't say as I care much for any of the suggestions. Perhaps Stig could come up with some ideas?
The United Kingdom is the political term for the union as it stands.
Even by politician's standards the man is an odious two-faced lying creep and it looks like Scotland is finally waking up to the massive con-trick him and his Rottweiler Sturgeon are pulling on them all.
bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25222891
The one by Al Main (Irn Bru) and Kris Taylor (age 32 and a half) look good to me.
Good point raised about Northern Ireland. I think it throws up a few identity questions for unionists there.