I was 180 posts behind with the 'banging on about Kermorgant' thead but having caught up, it feels like i'm in some form of Trueman Show where the same people are saying the same thing as they have said on a thousand other threads. Since the arrival of Duchatelet, and the key decisions made since that point, a devisive wedge has been driven through our support base. The reality is we shouldn't all be Sharks or Jets, and we really need to find a way to move past this.
Personally, I think where it comes to 'trust / support' for RD and all the network-related stuff, we need to supress whatever strong feelings there are on either side of the fence that the main vocal protagonists sit on. The fact there are so many repeated debates on the same points should tell you that there is no clear consensus for the more quieter majority to throw their weight behind at this point in time.
Both arguments can be made to look correct / false, and all that is happening now is the same people are seeing it through by digging their heels in, and inadvertedly causing an unecessary rift. The picture can change from one result to the next, and an unhealthy tug of war seems to be in play
It may sound like fence sitting, but I really do feel we should all be in 'wait and see' mode at this point in time.
Having been in a period of waiting for a takeover for a long time, expectations were high that the change would lead to a clear, notable move forward by the club. That hasn't occurred, but are we being completely fair to make strong judgements on just three months business? Will those things that clearly haven't gone well be quickly learned from, or will we see a pattern of repeated mistakes?
As an example of the mixed picture; The initial transfer approach and dealings have been disappointing. The ST process reeked inexperience and could have been dealt with a hell of a lot better. Yet, the academy plans are encouraging. The chances of Championship survival looks improved. Either side of the coin can be shined brighter and spun depending on whether a win or a defeat has occurred.
At the moment: we need to see three things pan out before we can start making more stronger weighted calls on whether we should be fully behind, or actively questioning RD and the whole network shamoodle.
1. What division will we be in next season?
2. Will it be Riga, or someone else who is our manager? If someone else, what credentials, why them?
3. What squad rebuilding occurs over the summer? What type of players are being acquired? What synergy does there appear to be with his other school of clubs etc? Does it look like an 'attempt at progress' approach etc?
I'm sure there are dozens of other sub-set questions that it would be interesting to know the answers to from an understanding basis, but everything in the short-term gets gazumped by those three above. And until we know more on those three, both the red corner and the blue other red corner should be touching gloves in the middle.
It is perfectly right to question people's approach or motives, particularly when it is something you are passionate about, have devoted a lifetime of emotional involvement to, and particularly when when the approach or motive is not clear, or a leap into the unknown.
But lets all wait and see where we are at a little further down the line before we start forming either protective barriers or attacking positons, eh ?
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Although we are making good progress towards staying up, there could yet be twists and turns that relegate us, and would be attributable to misfortune rather than incompetence (e.g. poor refereeing decisions, calamitous injuries to key players etc). It would be tough to blame RD for rank bad luck. I really hope JR stays in his role next season, but for all we know he may not want to and it will be necessary to recruit a replacement.
Which brings us right back to the key issue - recruitment and retention during the summer. That's the only thing RD has clear control over now and in my book, the only thing he can be judged on.
In my opinion, for what it's worth, we have some exciting times ahead once this mare of a season is finally over.
The players brought in also offer little clarity as to how summer will go. Ajdarevic has been a very good, if unfit player for us, Reza has tried but with little end product, and Obika has been an extra body in to provide competition in attack, but the less said about Thuram, Nego and Koc the better. Will we only sign network players who aren't good enough, or will Roland have learned his lesson and focus on bringing in the likes of Gradel as he seemed willing to do in Jan? There was a failure to identify the level of the division and the gaps in the squad that needed filling, but Roland is certainly not a stupid man so I like to think he'd learn from his mistakes.
I think if we brought in 2 or three pacy wingers and 2 decent strikers, while keeping the core of the squad, we'd go from being a team hard to break down to a team hard to stop from winning. Our ability to keep our score at 0 would be a winner's talent if we could bother the opposition goal every week, which is the fundamental difference between promotion hopefuls and relegation flirters.
As AFKA says it's so difficult to pick a camp as we have so little to go on at the moment. You can create any argument to say we're doomed or destined for greatness when we're working from nothing. Still, worrying about this summer's transfer window is a waste of time if we can't stay up first.
My humble opinion is that there is nothing to fear and there are already as many positives as negatives. We will all know a lot more at the start of next season. In the meantime we should just focus on the next three games.
There was a lot of initial excitement to the signings of Reza, Nego, Peter Parsley etc because they were young and foreign.
The 'great unknown' over-enthasised on the 'great' when it should have been on the 'unknown'.
The truth we have learnt since, is that someone like a 35-yr old Carlos Edwards would have been more suited and effective to our needs.
The 'great unknown' over-enthasised on the 'great' when it should have been on the 'unknown'. I think we will be a bit more cautious this summer.
Having said that SL supporters still can't make their minds up.
You can bring in players who haven't been in the league before, of course, but they need to be allied with experience. Sunderland learned this to their detriment this season and it will probably cost them their Premiership status. If Roland wants to bring in a talented Belgian centre forward next season then great, but let's make sure we pair him up with a player who knows what it takes to get a result in this league.
A season where we have gone from the verge of -10 to being financially stable
Losing a mgr that I would say was by far the most popular amongst a huge percentage of our fan base
To getting an unknown man in who has just slipped seamlessly into the ethos of the club and one that nearly every fan has recognised as knowing what he is doing instantly
Losing a real fans fav in yann and not replacing adequately
To even having an fa cup run that resulted in disappointment but the qtr finals again
Now is the time to allow the people who have committed financially to do their thing and judge based on the exact things you said
There is no need for such evident distrust after the last decade this club has faced under being run the traditional football way by so called traditional style British owners
Owners change, managers come and go, players are here for a season or the duration and stuff just happens.
Times change, people move on, some people are nasty and selfish and have ulterior motives, some people sacrifice themselves for the greater good..... and any combination of those too.
That's what it is to be a football supporter. I doubt you'll find it different for any other club underneath it all - it's just the individual circumstances that are different.
Admittedly, the future is uncertain, and I think what is driving most people's discomfort is that it is far less certain as to how things will be in the future than in previous years.
Here's another point of view we all might want to consider. The world of football seems to have changed a lot with the Premier League becoming all-mighty and the funding gap between them and every other league wider and wider. What further effect is that going to have on every single Championship and League 1/2 club? How many clubs are heading for administration or financial meltdown (QPR will be royally stuffed if they don't get back into the Premiership to name just one club). Are we better off with a securely funded owner who wants to try and run the club as a properly going concern, even if the network idea is untested and plain scary, or would we rather have some Sheik with a bottomless pit of a wallet or another Abramovich wannabe? How much debt have the Glazers picked up from Man Utd?
Perhaps we should take a deep breath and stay loyal to our club but console ourselves with the following:
We know that:
RD is going to deal with the pitch problem in the close season
RD already has ambitious plans for our academy. Once approved by the Mayor, built and up and running, then I think we have an enormous asset. Watch this space.
The rest is speculative, but I think RD deserves at least a chance. OK there are many folk who feel the DNA has changed - but so has everything else in the football world.
I'm not giving up on CAFC, but RD hasn't had a chance to bring about proper changes, and I don't think he could be worse for us than the previous owners were. Lets see what the next season brings and reserve judgement until there is something to actually have a full opinion on.
#COYA
As a result, I am excited by what is on offer and I honestly cannot understand why some people feel they have lost 'their club'. I am not criticising at all, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just think that the plan as laid out appears to be a financially solvent club, living within its means by developing and playing its own young players, and a board who are willing to communicate and pitch in when needs be - this is the very essence of what CAFC means to me.
So soon after the takeover, and so much else going on, I do feel that the RD regime was in a no-win situation with the January transfer window, so I will give them a pass on mistakes that were made. This Summer will be a much better judge of how things are going to go, although I would put a caveat there by saying that RD is still quite hamstrung by the large number of important players who are out of contract, so might leave regardless of what he does.
I cannot see us spending fortunes, but if I see the club seeming to stabilise and spend a little to move forward, then I will be perfectly happy. I don't want revolutions - nice, steady progress will do me fine.
reconstruct a new pitch, including drainage and under soil pipe works .
Good to see somethings on the move.
No-one knows anything.
Plus ça change...
The thing is I really don't want to feel the way I'm feeling at the moment about things at the club, and I am just waiting to get that feeling back of being part of it all again. Without hashing over it again I guess under CP it felt like we were a unit again with a shared goal, having someone at the helm who understood what it meant to be Charlton.
That "perception", whether real or imagined, felt right, and to be honest it has been surprisingly tough to let go of it. I feel almost disloyal when I try to see positives in the moving on process.
By the way, I am not writing this to persuade others that this view is right, because I am not at all sure it actually is, but I am just trying to explain how I and maybe one or two others might be feeling in our struggle to "move on."
Please feel free to now tell me to move on, maybe it's the only way I'll learn :-)
I am not renewing my season ticket until I know we have ambitions to be competitive next season. I renewed last year knowing we weren't any stronger and that we were actually weaker up front but we had no money and few better choices. The huge disappointment is that RD could afford to speculate to accumulate but he has said he won't do this (not at scale anyway) and, in fact, wants to prove that the strengths of a network of clubs outweighs the weaknesses. If that's what our fortunes will be primarily based on, then I won't commit to suffering someone else's experiment with my football club which I can't see working. I'll go week-to-week and if we get more of this season, I will pick and choose my games for the first time ever.
Long term investment plans are just that. Great to hear his ambitions in the Academy and youth but I'm not prepared to suffer years waiting for that to bear fruit, particularly if we cash in on some of those we have already invested in for years. Solly, Poyet and Cousins may all have their prices but if we take good money, I would expect the money they earn us to be used to strengthen the side, not just to balance the books.
It's typical bloody Charlton that we get the wealthiest owner we have ever had by a country mile and he wants to prove he can out-perform the market and go against the norm by spending less. It also irks me that he appears to have little interest in watching us himself. The minimum I have come to expect when suffering at the Valley is that the owner also shares my pain!
http://publicaccess.royalgreenwich.gov.uk:81/online-applications/files/788354A72D27E2289A42F42C2F7846B8/pdf/14_0616_F-PITCHWORKS_SPECIFICATION-242293.pdf
And I think you could safely add player retention to that list.
Let's hope that the club give some clear communication on the future. It can only help fans like @Cardinal Sin make up their minds.
CHARLTON ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CO, THE VALLEY, FLOYD ROAD, CHARLTON SE7ProposalRemoval of existing playing surface and reconstruct a new pitch, including drainage and under soil pipe works
If you click through the documents there is a spec proposl from pitch masters TGMS consultants. It looks the absolute nuts.
Fibre Sand 3g though.
Plastic hoofball dodgy bounce on the way
EDIT after reading the proposal it appears the top layer will be turf so will wait to see it for real before being so rashly Luddite.
My overall impression of the application is first rate. TGMS seem to have done mainly county cricket grounds so far in their completed projects list but that is no bad thing in terms of fitness for the job in hand.
It would be interesting to hear the views of @NWCorner on the plans
I would guess that while very few supporters feel outright alienation the many twists and turns of the season have been extremely unsettling, not least because the two previous seasons showed significant and consistent progress for the first time since 2005.
The paralysis caused by the protracted take-over reached a critical stage, and left the club crippled.
The only suitor who actually went the distance, RD has made a substantial investment, is funding losses and must cope with unexpected financial sink-holes like the pitch. I don't suppose he has re-jigged his normal routine around the Eurostar timetable, but he has been active, visible and decisive - amongst many initial fears was that for a guy with far more pies than fingers he would give us precious little attention. Unquestionably he has earned the benefit of the doubt.
If there is only one positive thing to come out of SCP's departure, then it is that he was spared further punishment. He will bounce back, for sure. Meanwhile, his two lieutenants continue to serve alongside the two new blokes pitchside - is that not highly unusual - and commendable - for any number of reasons ?
The season's end in 10 days, whatever the outcome, will duly bring clarity, focus, re-organisation and optimism. Stumbling through a wholly unforeseen collapse in what was once a remarkably well-run club has been a numbing and shameful experience - the warning sign of the Doncaster match and the descent to the utter shambles of the Barnsley game has understandably punctured our pride in this wonderful club, and the process has been very painful and disconcerting. No wonder there is widespread unease, but soon enough things will change and there will be gale-force sighs of relief - clearer, brighter, happier days are just around the corner, I'm absolutely certain of that.
UTA !!