Prague in your industry and your part of the world one might take longer but CAFC and Baton are not complex beasts. Audited accounts would have been available for last season together with player contracts and title to the Valley and Sparrows Lane. Forecasting this season's income and losses not hard either. If Grapevine does post his analysis it might show just how simple a football club really is. There are perhaps 7 key areas which need to be addressed in terms of strategy, budget and HR. Much of the activity like pies, pints and programmes is peripheral to the core activity of having a squad of 16 available to play on a decent pitch in front of decent sized crowds.
Prague in your industry and your part of the world one might take longer but CAFC and Baton are not complex beasts. Audited accounts would have been available for last season together with player contracts and title to the Valley and Sparrows Lane. Forecasting this season's income and losses not hard either. If Grapevine does post his analysis it might show just how simple a football club really is. There are perhaps 7 key areas which need to be addressed in terms of strategy, budget and HR. Much of the activity like pies, pints and programmes is peripheral to the core activity of having a squad of 16 available to play on a decent pitch in front of decent sized crowds.
I really don't think an advertising agency with a headcount of 100 - 200, is any more complicated a business to interrogate than a football club with a similar headcount is, especially as most ad agencies are not anonymously owned in BVI. Nor do agencies usually have property interests. That is what WPP buy and their due diligence takes six months. But whatever, it is not hugely important at this time.
noun 1. economic activity concerned with the processing of raw materials and manufacture of goods in factories. "new investment incentives for British industry" synonyms: manufacturing, production, fabrication, construction plural noun: industries "the car industry" synonyms: business, trade, field, line, line of work, line of business, commercial enterprise, service; More informal an activity or domain in which a great deal of effort is expended.
2. hard work. "the kitchen became a hive of industry" synonyms: hard work, industriousness, diligence, assiduity, application, sedulousness, sedulity, conscientiousness, steadiness, tirelessness, persistence, pertinacity, perseverance, dedication, determination, rigour, rigorousness; More
Surely the quality of an advertising agency earnings and their veracity would take a lot longer to establish than a football club which has season tickets, TV revenue and commercial revenue that remains fairly predictable. Who knows what fiddles one might pull off when you have a combination of advertising executives, sales and a chance to inflate earnings in order to make a quick buck?!
I used to work in software finance and (after I left that area) a massive scandal broke over the HP acquisition of Autonomy for $8Bn. Completely different scale but there must have been at least three of the big four accounting firms involved in the acquisition. It appears that they seriously over valued the entity and HP took one hell of a hit a couple of years later.
And actually, it is important because if someone asserts that Duchatelet has been cavalier or negligent in their due dilligence efforts, then the clear implication is that this is how he treats all of his business dealings. You and Airman Brown have both gone on record with this line. I fail to see why as a member of the board of the Supporter's Trust you continue this line, i.e. attacking every possible angle without balance and without any substantiation.
Do you seriously expect the CAFC management team to entertain the concept of developing a relationship with the Supporters' Trust while you continue this nonsense 24/7?
For whatever reason, RD does not seem to do due diligence to the depth I would expect. In my industry, a company with a similar headcount and structure would take 3-6 months, especially if the ownership involved some dodgy offshore setup
As a former steel worker, I simply think of industry as hard work, creating something useful. Now I am in the 'security industry' and have to attend 'workshops' I think these phrases have been hijacked by shiny-arsed bull-shitters who need a value label to justify them/ourselves
As a former steel worker, I simply think of industry as hard work, creating something useful. Now I am in the 'security industry' and have to attend 'workshops' I think these phrases have been hijacked by shiny-arsed bull-shitters who need a value label to justify them/ourselves
Well I fully understand your viewpoint, and I'm not just saying that. I would just humbly point out that CAFC fans of a certain age acknowledge that the club might not have got back to The Valley if a top advertising agency hadn't decided to lend a hand to their campaign, totally free of charge, and in the process intimidating a load of poster companies into doing the same.
Seriously - please give everyone a break from your opinions for a wee while. I know we don't have to read them, but what price 48 hours silence ?
Yes, yes less is more I get that.
However I think the problem might be solved if you attempt to curb the anti Duchatelet tendencies of your fellow Trust Board member. Every shagging day another question, another conspiracy or another attack on a fellow fan.
End of the day it's what happens on the pitch that matters!
CAFC went through DD at least three times in the past two years.
A simple 'phone call to one of the previous interested parties and an agreed fee for that information would certainly short cut the process.
I seriously doubt that. For a start, due diligence would be covered by a non-disclosure agreement. I have never heard of such a transaction, probably for this reason.
But it's irrelevant. He bought it, and we have to hope that by now, he knows what he bought.
When I've bought property previously, a simple question to the Estate Agent "has anyone else had a survey done" has been asked.
If it has, then NEVER has an Estate Agent not been able to provide me with a copy of that survey. Why pay an additional fee for something that has already been done?
I suggest, those involved with selling the Club were quite prepared to make it a simpler process for any serious buyer.
Richard Murray said how impressed he was with RD and his DD. He said he had his people ready and he did it all very professionally and quickly, by seeing how well organised he was and that he was also the only serious buyer who had DD wrapped up easily, after speaking to him he knew he would be the right man for the job. I dont see these quotes leading me to think RD hasnt done enough in-depth research.
More importantly a due diligence file was prepared for a deal that never happened summer 2013. The file would not be that thick. The fact that Duchatelet negotiated a relegation clause (or survival bonus) shows how well he understood the entity and associated risks at that time in December 2013 before the deal was closed. When you want to sell a company you don't mess about with information supplied because people walk away if they start to mistrust information provided.
Richard Murray said how impressed he was with RD and his DD. He said he had his people ready and he did it all very professionally and quickly, by seeing how well organised he was and that he was also the only serious buyer who had DD wrapped up easily, after speaking to him he knew he would be the right man for the job. I dont see these quotes leading me to think RD hasnt done enough in-depth research.
As some one who was very close to a bid for the club, RD was not the only serious buyer for the club, it all came down to who could get the money to MS and TJ the quickest and MS lying as to where he was on a certain day, and as for RM i would take things he says about RD to serious as i understand he does not have a lot of dialogue with him.
More importantly a due diligence file was prepared for a deal that never happened summer 2013. The file would not be that thick. The fact that Duchatelet negotiated a relegation clause (or survival bonus) shows how well he understood the entity and associated risks at that time in December 2013 before the deal was closed. When you want to sell a company you don't mess about with information supplied because people walk away if they start to mistrust information provided.
That is true, but at least in my area of business (as corrected by Arthur) the buyer would not content himself with a file of information provided by the seller. It would only be a starting point. Especially, one might say, if you are not sure about the character of the sellers.
One explanation might be that a company like WPP is publicly quoted and therefore has a duty to external shareholders to do the job thoroughly before splashing the cash.
I am not criticising RD, I am simply surprised, and a little nervous, that he did this so quickly, especially as he made other purchases over the same time period. Also as I said above, I am grateful that he was able to complete before the end of January and probably for the very best of reasons. I hope that the other lot did not leave him any more nasty surprises than the state of the pitch.
Grapevine a brilliantly written great post, level headed, clear thinking, observational critique of where the club was and where it is now…and for what it's worth, in my opinion, it is in a much more stable condition, offering huge potential for progress ( much more than some of the other clubs in Championship and PL leagues having to conform to FFP) in the coming seasons than it was 3 months ago. For me since the takeover, I sense there is a feeling of calmness, stability and some sense of understanding what direction we are heading in.
I don't know how others feel , but i feel ground down by this season and haven't really enjoyed it, i know i'll be shot down for saying it , but i'm really glad the seasons over , give it a few weeks , a bit of world cup footie , and perhaps a looming preseason trip to Belgium and i hope i'll be begging to watch Charlton again , but for now i need to recharge my batteries , get some jobs done around the house and try and forget about Charlton.
Sure theres been positives Cousins, Poyet and the emergence of Fox for a start , as well as 2 hat tricks ( i've missed both) a few glimpses of skill from Astrit , and a Fa cup quarter final ( which we didn't expect at the start of the season) even if we didn't turn up on the day.
I'm going to contradict myself because without a takeover maybe we would def be playing in League 1 season , but flogging 'star' players in key positions on the last day of the window is asking for trouble , how we got out of it , i don't know, Jose has done a blinding job.
There's just been so negativity around our club this season, from fans and media , i sincerely hope it goes away , because for me thats not what i want to go to football matches for.
I accept you got to take the rough with the smooth as a footie fan , and to be fair we could be Bristol Rovers fans , who have just plumetted out of the League , i just want it to be fun again watching Charlton.
Maybe i should have gone to Blackpool yesterday , and i would have perhaps been filled with a lot more joy and enthusiasm , so maybe it was my loss , i thought after the Barnsley home defeat that we were done for the season , i know things take time but i'd love to hear some positive news soon about players renewing contracts , or a couple of decent strikers signing on for next season.
in case you introspective analysers hadn't noticed we won 3-0 at Blackpool, finished 18th which is 7points above relegation, reached the FA Cup quarter finals and have a team that includes upto 6 ex academy players.
Now let's wait and see what RD does with contracts and transfers for management and playing staff, then there will be plenty to analyse but at present it all seems hot air to me.
I think the biggest point about our points tally was everyone up to shef wed would've gone down last season
We got lucky this season
I think it was more a case of Peterborough being unlucky last season. They had 54 points - no other team has ever been relegated from the Championship with so many points and only one team has been relegated with more points than Wolves (51) who were second to bottom. A team with 51 points would have been relegated in only two of the eleven years in which the Championship has existed.
Comments
Great post Grapevine by the way, best summary so far on this site.
If Grapevine does post his analysis it might show just how simple a football club really is. There are perhaps 7 key areas which need to be addressed in terms of strategy, budget and HR. Much of the activity like pies, pints and programmes is peripheral to the core activity of having a squad of 16 available to play on a decent pitch in front of decent sized crowds.
Advertising?
noun
1.
economic activity concerned with the processing of raw materials and manufacture of goods in factories.
"new investment incentives for British industry"
synonyms: manufacturing, production, fabrication, construction
plural noun: industries
"the car industry"
synonyms: business, trade, field, line, line of work, line of business, commercial enterprise, service; More
informal
an activity or domain in which a great deal of effort is expended.
2.
hard work.
"the kitchen became a hive of industry"
synonyms: hard work, industriousness, diligence, assiduity, application, sedulousness, sedulity, conscientiousness, steadiness, tirelessness, persistence, pertinacity, perseverance, dedication, determination, rigour, rigorousness; More
I used to work in software finance and (after I left that area) a massive scandal broke over the HP acquisition of Autonomy for $8Bn. Completely different scale but there must have been at least three of the big four accounting firms involved in the acquisition. It appears that they seriously over valued the entity and HP took one hell of a hit a couple of years later.
And actually, it is important because if someone asserts that Duchatelet has been cavalier or negligent in their due dilligence efforts, then the clear implication is that this is how he treats all of his business dealings. You and Airman Brown have both gone on record with this line. I fail to see why as a member of the board of the Supporter's Trust you continue this line, i.e. attacking every possible angle without balance and without any substantiation.
Do you seriously expect the CAFC management team to entertain the concept of developing a relationship with the Supporters' Trust while you continue this nonsense 24/7?
''His word not mine, A-R- ... oh ==== it , I can't be assed.''
Whose words?
Just out of interest, probably only to me, why would you think advertising does not qualify as an industry?
Now I am in the 'security industry' and have to attend 'workshops' I think these phrases have been hijacked by shiny-arsed bull-shitters who need a value label to justify them/ourselves
;-)
As I say, I'm in a bullshit 'industry' myself.
But it is a profession in my eyes (only?) as opposed to an 'industry'
But we are boring everyone to death...
However I think the problem might be solved if you attempt to curb the anti Duchatelet tendencies of your fellow Trust Board member. Every shagging day another question, another conspiracy or another attack on a fellow fan.
End of the day it's what happens on the pitch that matters!
A simple 'phone call to one of the previous interested parties and an agreed fee for that information would certainly short cut the process.
But it's irrelevant. He bought it, and we have to hope that by now, he knows what he bought.
If it has, then NEVER has an Estate Agent not been able to provide me with a copy of that survey. Why pay an additional fee for something that has already been done?
I suggest, those involved with selling the Club were quite prepared to make it a simpler process for any serious buyer.
When you want to sell a company you don't mess about with information supplied because people walk away if they start to mistrust information provided.
One explanation might be that a company like WPP is publicly quoted and therefore has a duty to external shareholders to do the job thoroughly before splashing the cash.
I am not criticising RD, I am simply surprised, and a little nervous, that he did this so quickly, especially as he made other purchases over the same time period. Also as I said above, I am grateful that he was able to complete before the end of January and probably for the very best of reasons. I hope that the other lot did not leave him any more nasty surprises than the state of the pitch.
For me since the takeover, I sense there is a feeling of calmness, stability and some sense of understanding what direction we are heading in.
Sure theres been positives Cousins, Poyet and the emergence of Fox for a start , as well as 2 hat tricks ( i've missed both) a few glimpses of skill from Astrit , and a Fa cup quarter final ( which we didn't expect at the start of the season) even if we didn't turn up on the day.
I'm going to contradict myself because without a takeover maybe we would def be playing in League 1 season , but flogging 'star' players in key positions on the last day of the window is asking for trouble , how we got out of it , i don't know, Jose has done a blinding job.
There's just been so negativity around our club this season, from fans and media , i sincerely hope it goes away , because for me thats not what i want to go to football matches for.
I accept you got to take the rough with the smooth as a footie fan , and to be fair we could be Bristol Rovers fans , who have just plumetted out of the League , i just want it to be fun again watching Charlton.
Maybe i should have gone to Blackpool yesterday , and i would have perhaps been filled with a lot more joy and enthusiasm , so maybe it was my loss , i thought after the Barnsley home defeat that we were done for the season , i know things take time but i'd love to hear some positive news soon about players renewing contracts , or a couple of decent strikers signing on for next season.
Now let's wait and see what RD does with contracts and transfers for management and playing staff, then there will be plenty to analyse but at present it all seems hot air to me.
We got lucky this season