I don't think it matters who the manager is. The players we have, collectively, simply aren't good enough....and we also don't have a superstar who can win a game by himself. Look at Uruguay...I didn't think they were all that tbh...but Suarez makes all the difference.
Same 'ol England i'm afraid. What a let down....we should be used to this by now.
Sadly, you are probably right. I don't think Hodgson can be blamed for the schoolboy defending by Premiership players, unless we can say which defenders we would have picked!
We're 'also rans' - a two bob football nation now. Danny Baker neatly sums it up on Twitter: "In my lifetime: Can we WIN the WC? to Can we make semi finals? to Can we make quarter finals? to Can we get out of group? to Can we qualify?"
Stick with Roy if he can get what I hope will be as a one off a young experimental team up against Costa Rica In a match that doesn't matter : no Gerrard , no Rooney , no Johnson please. He picked the right teams by and large and should be able to nurture young talent coming through andcwe seem to have a lot of that out wide and perhaps up front .The defence is a real concern though with at least one better centre half and a replacement for Glenn Johnson absolutely essential if we are to consider it worth bothering at international level. At World cup finals level a truly world class striker would make all the difference too and we don't have any one who even remotely fits the bill at the moment in a striking position .We should also be looking at players not born here but who qualify through length of time in the country . After all the Germans have made it work for them with their compliment of Poles, Turks and others .
We spend two years qualifying for these tounaments and arrive like world beaters and it only takes us two games to find out we aren't.We just can't seem to make that step up in class.
England are like CAFC, they do not do cups. Unfortunatly that only leaves friendlies for them.
The sad fact is that the FA are not fit for purpose. Boys football is slowly improving with smaller teams and smaller goals, but the lack of qualified coaches and managers still means that the long ball to the big kid up front is still the prefered option.
Seeing goalkeepers defending a goal that would need them to use a ladder to get to the cross bar is farcical and encourgaes the hit and hope mentality. To then hear the plaudits from the 'coach' for a great goal tells you everything you need to know as to why we are crap.
There are of course some great clubs out there with good coaches, unfortunately not enough. We need to move on from the dad's managing teams and insist that you need to be qualified to be involved, and offer it free to get the numbers required.
My personal opinion is that we should keep games competitive, but abandon the leagues. I have my tin hat ready!
As an aside, at least we have an enlightened owner who recognises how poor a lot of our players are and is recruiting from abroad.
The simple fact is we are not good enough. Cahill, Jagielka, Johnson would be nowhere near a team with pretensions to win the World Cup. I think Roy has done well and blooded a few young players but the pool of players he can pick from is ordinary.
Roys only mistake was Gerrard and every manager before him made the same mistake
If Gerrard was worth lacing sir Beckhams boots he will resign as captain allowing the mgr to drop him
No we did not. Root and branch reform means looking at the whole of English football, including the Premier League, as one entity. The FA has no power over the FAPL. Until that is addressed we are doomed to mornings like this for the rest of my lifetime
We haven't been able to beat decent sides for a while now and the draw lined us up against two teams at the top of the FIFA rankings. Bad luck but we are maybe top 10 or 12 in the world and struggle to beat anyone above that. Maybe for a country of our size and recent history (forget '66 and that we invented the game in 1863 as they are no longer relevant) we are punching our weight, no more. no less
If we give game time to the likes of Shaw and the other younger players we will be a stronger team and squad.
The underlying problems of why we don't produce enough high quality player isn't down to the manager of the national team.
To resolve that we need to look at the whole structure of English football. That won't happen for two reasons.
1. We have a knee jerk short termism which leads to sack the manager rather than change the system. We are not willing to invest in the long term and suffer the poor results while the long term plans come to fruition.
2. Any "change" is made solely to placate the Premier League clubs. The ideal for a B league is one silly example but far more damaging has been EPPP. All the power around academies now lies with the richest clubs. The incentive for smaller clubs to have strong academies has been taken away as they will lose players for buttons to any big club that wants them.
So rather than a bigger, stronger, wider spread and deeper rooted network of academies able to coach and develop players from Exeter to Hartlepool all the good players end up in the systems at the likes of Chelsea who have not produced a regular first team player since John Terry. But the top clubs call the shots and the small clubs taking the crumbs from the Sky table.
It can change but it won't as long as the FA is dominated by the needs of the Premier League.
Roy has taken a lot of risks and it may not appear to have worked now.....but if we win a World Cup (yes you can LOL at that) in the next decade, we will look at what he has done for the future of this country with his bold decisions to take the likes of Shaw and Barkley to this World Cup.
I watched an interview with Gary Neville, where he stated that they have a plan to make England a more attacking and dynamic side by 2016. Yeah, we have seen glimpses of that already at this World Cup.
If we add a couple of defenders and a younger, fresher midfield, I believe we can become a very strong side.
I will judge him after the Euros in 2016 (if we get there), I believe we will just get stronger and stronger under him...I really do.
The emergence of a truly world class player would help as well. After all, we've got nowhere since Gascoigne's gone. We've got some good kids coming through, think we'll be a lot stronger for our experiences in this world cup.
Can't help feeling that a Mourinho type would be better suited to the needs of international football today. There's no guile or cleverness to our game. And the need to sometimes cheat/simulate your way out of a situation always seems to bear fruit at this level. Let's face it. Football is not the good honest game it once was. You win nothing with angels!
No Managerial change would make any difference IMO. We have been saying for years that we need to change the way players are coached from a young age - has happened to a small degree. We are moaning about the number of foreign players in the Premier - that won't change. We've got what we've got
Gary Neville needs to be kept on within the set-up whatever and looked at as a future England manager.
Don't let him leave for club management.
When i hear him talk about the game, and his passion for England, i think there is nobody better for the future of leading us from the touchline.
Until there is radical changes at coaching level so we get real class players being produced, we need someone that knows the current game and what it takes to get the best out of average players. I get the feeling that he had input into this tournament but Roy's decisions were the final ones.
Not his fault we don't have any top-class defenders in the current crop. Only criticism could be that he should have taken Cole and possibly even Terry - our two best defenders on footballing ability alone.
We haven't been able to beat decent sides for a while now and the draw lined us up against two teams at the top of the FIFA rankings. Bad luck but we are maybe top 10 or 12 in the world and struggle to beat anyone above that. Maybe for a country of our size and recent history (forget '66 and that we invented the game in 1863 as they are no longer relevant) we are punching our weight, no more. no less
If we give game time to the likes of Shaw and the other younger players we will be a stronger team and squad.
The underlying problems of why we don't produce enough high quality player isn't down to the manager of the national team.
To resolve that we need to look at the whole structure of English football. That won't happen for two reasons.
1. We have a knee jerk short termism which leads to sack the manager rather than change the system. We are not willing to invest in the long term and suffer the poor results while the long term plans come to fruition.
2. Any "change" is made solely to placate the Premier League clubs. The ideal for a B league is one silly example but far more damaging has been EPPP. All the power around academies now lies with the richest clubs. The incentive for smaller clubs to have strong academies has been taken away as they will lose players for buttons to any big club that wants them.
So rather than a bigger, stronger, wider spread and deeper rooted network of academies able to coach and develop players from Exeter to Hartlepool all the good players end up in the systems at the likes of Chelsea who have not produced a regular first team player since John Terry. But the top clubs call the shots and the small clubs taking the crumbs from the Sky table.
It can change but it won't as long as the FA is dominated by the needs of the Premier League.
This is an important point you make Henry. If you want to find a pearl you need to check lots of oysters. So the grass roots system requires as many kids getting the right levels of coaching as you can get. Now one way is to have academies who coach at the right level to be more widespread. The other is to have that coaching in the community outside of the academy system. Either can work, but it is a numbers game – we need to produce more oysters to find more pearls.
To get more academies operating at a productive level, you need to provide the financial incentives for small clubs to invest - which is the opposite of what the Premier League has done. But what the premier league does it does for itself – or at least for the big clubs within it. That is why Dyke’s comments were so upsetting to football fans.
The other problem is that we really need a revolution. The Premier League structure as it is now needs to be toppled – but Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City etc… fans don’t care. When Dyke announced his plans the ones I spoke to were saying to me – yes that will help Arsenal – not yes that will help England. We need a revolution – there are more of us fans who support clubs that are not these monsters – I’d prefer if we all got together and told them to F off and play each other and form our own league based on decent principles.
I know its not possible due to European laws but would love a rule that stats a certain number of English national players has to be in the starting 11 etc. Year 1 have 4 it the starting 11 year 5 and cap it at 7.
But while there is such a premium on English players clubs are going to purchase players from aboard for half the price.
Not his fault we don't have any top-class defenders in the current crop. Only criticism could be that he should have taken Cole and possibly even Terry - our two best defenders on footballing ability alone.
Can people stop talking about john terry should have gone as a dig at Hodgson, he's retired from international football for goodness sake.
curtis davies had an emense season for hull would have/should have been along side cahill all day long smalling and jones are not going to be the answer.
It's a shocking state of affairs that we don't have a natural centre forward, or a quality right back or centre halves.
This 100%
Hodgson is not the problem.
I felt we had good team spirit. We were in each game. We just don't have quality in defence and a quality finisher.
Hodgson picked the squad that most would have picked (from those available).
We just don't have a Suarez or a Balatelli.
He is part of the problem. He picked the squad most would have picked but not the team. Why take Barkley and Lallana not to use them.
Have to disagree. I would have picked the same team. Barkley is very erratic, and Lallana is not significantly better than those who were picked.
The problem is not Hodgson, it's the structure of our game and the hold that the Premier League/Clubs have on the game. The PL was claimed at its formation to make our game more professional and stronger than ever and that would assist the national team. In that sense it has been a disaster and English men and women have been hoodwinked.
We have been defeated in these last two games by players past and present who play for our top sides. We know that Sturridge is a decent player but he's made to look brilliant alongside arguably the best player in the world in Suarez. A half fit Suarez last night was better by a mile than anyone 100% fit in our team.
Somebody mentioned the Germans after 2002. Yes they massively changed things. The German FA has vastly more control over their game than our FA who sold out to the money men in allowing the Premier League to be formed an run its own affairs. Do Sheik Mansoor or Abramovitch care a single iota whether England is successful as they sign their umpteenth Carlos Kickaball? Do they f*ck!
In Germany there are strict rules governing foreign ownership of clubs. Not over here though. We have wet ourselves for years over the foreign investment now in our game. The genii is out of the bottle, there is virtually no chance of national footballing success despite what Greg Dyke opines. Our only hope is that in the gene pool of English men, a Suarez or a Messi, or Pirlo, emerge despite our system. The richest league in the world - but for who's benefit? Certainly not the collective English.
So sack Woy, or don't sack him, it will make f*ck all difference. I would keep him. I think he has the respect of the players, he's an intelligent man trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Comments
Look at Uruguay...I didn't think they were all that tbh...but Suarez makes all the difference.
Same 'ol England i'm afraid. What a let down....we should be used to this by now.
Danny Baker neatly sums it up on Twitter:
"In my lifetime: Can we WIN the WC? to Can we make semi finals? to Can we make quarter finals? to Can we get out of group? to Can we qualify?"
Gerrard just needs to piss off and take that miserable knob Rooney with him.
Hart
Shaw
Cahill
NEW CB
NEW RB
Sterling
Wilshire
Barkley
Walcott/Townsend
Rooney
Sturridge
Centre midfield is an issue for England and has been for a while, and I just dont rate Baines, Jagielka or Glen Johnson as International footballers
But as for the original question, Roy is still the man.
The sad fact is that the FA are not fit for purpose. Boys football is slowly improving with smaller teams and smaller goals, but the lack of qualified coaches and managers still means that the long ball to the big kid up front is still the prefered option.
Seeing goalkeepers defending a goal that would need them to use a ladder to get to the cross bar is farcical and encourgaes the hit and hope mentality. To then hear the plaudits from the 'coach' for a great goal tells you everything you need to know as to why we are crap.
There are of course some great clubs out there with good coaches, unfortunately not enough. We need to move on from the dad's managing teams and insist that you need to be qualified to be involved, and offer it free to get the numbers required.
My personal opinion is that we should keep games competitive, but abandon the leagues. I have my tin hat ready!
As an aside, at least we have an enlightened owner who recognises how poor a lot of our players are and is recruiting from abroad.
We haven't been able to beat decent sides for a while now and the draw lined us up against two teams at the top of the FIFA rankings. Bad luck but we are maybe top 10 or 12 in the world and struggle to beat anyone above that. Maybe for a country of our size and recent history (forget '66 and that we invented the game in 1863 as they are no longer relevant) we are punching our weight, no more. no less
If we give game time to the likes of Shaw and the other younger players we will be a stronger team and squad.
The underlying problems of why we don't produce enough high quality player isn't down to the manager of the national team.
To resolve that we need to look at the whole structure of English football. That won't happen for two reasons.
1. We have a knee jerk short termism which leads to sack the manager rather than change the system. We are not willing to invest in the long term and suffer the poor results while the long term plans come to fruition.
2. Any "change" is made solely to placate the Premier League clubs. The ideal for a B league is one silly example but far more damaging has been EPPP. All the power around academies now lies with the richest clubs. The incentive for smaller clubs to have strong academies has been taken away as they will lose players for buttons to any big club that wants them.
So rather than a bigger, stronger, wider spread and deeper rooted network of academies able to coach and develop players from Exeter to Hartlepool all the good players end up in the systems at the likes of Chelsea who have not produced a regular first team player since John Terry. But the top clubs call the shots and the small clubs taking the crumbs from the Sky table.
It can change but it won't as long as the FA is dominated by the needs of the Premier League.
Let's face it. Football is not the good honest game it once was.
You win nothing with angels!
Don't let him leave for club management.
When i hear him talk about the game, and his passion for England, i think there is nobody better for the future of leading us from the touchline.
Until there is radical changes at coaching level so we get real class players being produced, we need someone that knows the current game and what it takes to get the best out of average players. I get the feeling that he had input into this tournament but Roy's decisions were the final ones.
Despite the disappointment , we have played much better under him than Capello.
It may not feel like it yet but we have improved and brought some good players into the team . Even if the last two results don't show it.
To get more academies operating at a productive level, you need to provide the financial incentives for small clubs to invest - which is the opposite of what the Premier League has done. But what the premier league does it does for itself – or at least for the big clubs within it. That is why Dyke’s comments were so upsetting to football fans.
The other problem is that we really need a revolution. The Premier League structure as it is now needs to be toppled – but Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City etc… fans don’t care. When Dyke announced his plans the ones I spoke to were saying to me – yes that will help Arsenal – not yes that will help England. We need a revolution – there are more of us fans who support clubs that are not these monsters – I’d prefer if we all got together and told them to F off and play each other and form our own league based on decent principles.
I know its not possible due to European laws but would love a rule that stats a certain number of English national players has to be in the starting 11 etc. Year 1 have 4 it the starting 11 year 5 and cap it at 7.
But while there is such a premium on English players clubs are going to purchase players from aboard for half the price.
We will never be able to bring youth through whilst Wembley still needs to be filled to pay off the ridiculous debt they got into building it.
They will never take any risks with qualification as there's too much money at stake
This is your next England manager:
The problem is not Hodgson, it's the structure of our game and the hold that the Premier League/Clubs have on the game. The PL was claimed at its formation to make our game more professional and stronger than ever and that would assist the national team. In that sense it has been a disaster and English men and women have been hoodwinked.
We have been defeated in these last two games by players past and present who play for our top sides. We know that Sturridge is a decent player but he's made to look brilliant alongside arguably the best player in the world in Suarez. A half fit Suarez last night was better by a mile than anyone 100% fit in our team.
Somebody mentioned the Germans after 2002. Yes they massively changed things. The German FA has vastly more control over their game than our FA who sold out to the money men in allowing the Premier League to be formed an run its own affairs. Do Sheik Mansoor or Abramovitch care a single iota whether England is successful as they sign their umpteenth Carlos Kickaball? Do they f*ck!
In Germany there are strict rules governing foreign ownership of clubs. Not over here though. We have wet ourselves for years over the foreign investment now in our game. The genii is out of the bottle, there is virtually no chance of national footballing success despite what Greg Dyke opines. Our only hope is that in the gene pool of English men, a Suarez or a Messi, or Pirlo, emerge despite our system. The richest league in the world - but for who's benefit? Certainly not the collective English.
So sack Woy, or don't sack him, it will make f*ck all difference. I would keep him. I think he has the respect of the players, he's an intelligent man trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
The press (generally) like Roy, which, makes for a better media support, which helps.
The 2 MAIN reasons we lost to Italy and Uruguay were :-
1 They both had a world class striker, who took their chances and we missed our even better chances.
2 Our centre halves are barely adequate at world class level and were responsible for 3 of the 4 goals conceded.
Cahill is a bit better than Jagielka, but we need at least one better centre half.
Who that is I don't know.