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Sport of Kings discussion thread

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  • https://web.archive.org/web/20170712083345/http://www.attheraces.com/blogs/kevin-blake/07-July-2017

    Have had to use the Wayback Machine to retrieve this but:

    In his latest column Kevin analyses the use of the whip and argues that the sport should educate the public on the realities of the whip.

    The realities of “the whip debate”

    After what seemed an endless string of PR disasters for horse racing in the years following the changes made to the whip rules in Great Britain in 2011, it had finally seemed as though the issue had settled down in the last year or so. However, the unique ability that horse racing has to make a rod for its own back was once again in evidence with the Racing Post running a front-page headline of “Why The Whip Must Be Banned”. [ED: link here - https://www.racingpost.com/news/time-for-racing-to-accept-the-inevitable-the-whip-will-have-to-go/291907 ]

    The headline related to an article by the excellent Tom Kerr which made a measured argument that the whip should only be permitted for corrective action rather than encouragement in response to societal changes that in his opinion will inevitably lead to increased public intolerance of whip use in horse racing. Unfortunately for Tom, the details will be lost on many, as the focus has very much been on the suggestion made by the sensationalist, incendiary and ultimately misleading headline which it should be clarified that Kerr didn’t write.

    While not everyone will have the appetite for a debate that has had more than its share of airtime in recent years, the re-emergence of it does offer the opportunity to reiterate why this debate only ever needs to be a short one and how horse racing can help itself in a world where perception is everything.

    The salient point in this whole discussion, the one that the debate should start and end with, is that the modern whip is not a welfare issue in racing. It is a light, foam-filled piece of equipment that is designed to make a loud crack rather than inflict pain.

    Anyone that has handled a modern whip will know this. It is next to impossible to physically hurt even the highly-sensitive hand of a human with the modern whip. Thus, to suggest that such a tool can inflict pain on a 500kg thoroughbred horse through their much more thickly-skinned and heavily-muscled hindquarters whilst adrenaline is coursing through their bodies in a race is frankly laughable.

    The natural follow-on question from this is one of “well if it the horses can’t feel it, why is it needed at all?” Again, the explanation is a straightforward one. Anyone who has ridden or dealt with thoroughbred horses knows that the whip is an absolutely necessary piece of equipment to safely control them. Every horse is trained to respond to and respect it from the very early stages of their education. As well as that and as a counter to Kerr’s main point, the whip is also necessary as a means of encouragement to get the very best from the vast majority of animals.

    Thoroughbreds have been selectively bred for an extremely heightened flight response for hundreds of years. For as long as the thoroughbred has been cultivated, the whip has been used as the trigger to capitalise on this response, with the motion, impact and noise of it being applied to their hindquarters playing on the horse’s natural instinct to flee as quickly as possible.

    Taking away the whip as a means of encouragement would risk unintended consequences that could fundamentally change horse racing as we know it and create even bigger problems for the industry. The main concern would be that there would almost certainly be a rise in unethical training methods designed to heighten the flight instinct of horses in the absence of a whip. As well as that, such action would change the selection process that has shaped the thoroughbred breed over hundreds of years, with it leading to free-going tearaways thriving at the expense of laid-back horses that require stronger encouragement, which could only be considered a backwards step for the breed.

    Considering all the above justifications for its use, it really is remarkable to me that some in the sport see a banning of the whip as inevitable. Are we really that insecure? Are we really that willing to meekly submit to the views of the uninformed?

    For me at least, the road that horse racing must take on this issue is very clear and that is the path of education. Having been making the suggestion for years, it genuinely boggles my mind why the racing authorities do not engage in ongoing education of the public as to the realities of the whip. Why isn’t there a one-man information stand at every single race meeting with whip-related information and most importantly, whips that can be handled by any curious racegoer that want to make up their own mind on them? I defy anyone to handle a modern whip and come away from it with serious concerns about it.

    The extent to which racing has failed to educate its own audience in this regard is illustrated by the results of a poll I ran on Twitter asking my racing-focused followers had they ever had the opportunity to hold/examine the modern whip used by jockeys in British and Irish racing. 75% of them responded that they had not. This needs to be rectified as a matter of priority.

    While so many in horse racing are seemingly incurably insecure about our sport, it should be clear that horse racing has nothing to hide when it comes to the modern whip. Of course, many members of the public will never be willing to listen to the realities, preferring to retain their image of horses being cruelly lashed in the name of sport, but I frankly don’t care about their uneducated opinions. The notion that we should fundamentally alter our sport based on the uninformed views of those that don’t and never will take a meaningful interest in our sport is absurd.

    If we educate those that do actually like and care about horse racing about the realities of the whip or other potentially contentious issues in the sport, those people will ultimately serve as the best ambassadors that horse racing can wish for amongst the wider public. We as lovers of horse racing must strive to be more confident, self-assured and educated about our sport, as if we don’t believe in it, how can we expect anyone else to?
  • @PaddyP17 Ive shared that article with people on numerous occasions on fb that whine about horse racing.

    Its more painful getting hit by a strawberry lace than a jockey whip.
  • @PaddyP17 Ive shared that article with people on numerous occasions on fb that whine about horse racing.

    Its more painful getting hit by a strawberry lace than a jockey whip.

    Hope you have a safe word.
  • @PaddyP17 Ive shared that article with people on numerous occasions on fb that whine about horse racing.

    Its more painful getting hit by a strawberry lace than a jockey whip.

    Hope you have a safe word.
    "Flying saucer! FLYING SAUCER!"
  • Looks like Colin Tizzard has got his wish and signed Jonjo O'Neill Jnr as his main jockey (presumably when Power is otherwise engaged) .. this could prove in the longer term to be as prolific a partnership as Nicholls/Cobden and Henderson/De Boinville
  • Fingers crossed for Cyrname there 
  • Fingers crossed for Cyrname there 
    Up and walking back. Fantastic pictures, crowd going mad clapping him back in
  • what a day for the Twistons .. over £120,000 from the 2 big races .. I doubt if Cyrname will ever be anything like the same horse again, BUT with Nicholls, you never know
  • edited March 2020
    Very little of appealing e/w value in the Midlands National tomorrow so, unusually for me, I'll be backing one on the nose: PETITE POWER to win at 13/2.
    A course winner on heavy (as it will be, as usual, tomorrow) with bucketloads of stamina. Last run a fine 3rd (staying on well, despite being hampered by a late faller) in January's 29f Classic Chase at Warwick on Soft behind Kimberlite Candy. The form of that race is proving strong - The Conditional (Tuesday's Ultima) being the latest of 3 to win (and 1 to near-miss) next time out from 2nd~7th home that day. Runs off the same mark tomorrow and will carry just 9.07 with his regular partner a 7lb claimer. 
    Prior to Warwick, failed by a neck to reel in the winner when staying on over a testing 30.5f at Exeter on soft. 
    Trainer (Fergal O'Brien) won the race with another dour stayer Chase The Spud 3 years ago.
    Enjoy.

     
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  • I’ll have a nibble with you Peanuts. 
  • edited March 2020
    CHG said:
    I’ll have a nibble with you Peanuts. 
    Cheers for the vote of confidence @CHG
    I'm going to go e/w after all Chief. The first 2 in the market have strong claims too and would be a pisser if he got touched off. 
    And, having hummed and ha'd about it, at 10/1 I'll add PRIME VENTURE to the ticket. 4th in this last year off 2lb higher mark and did well for me in the Welsh GN (4th off today's mark and will effectively be level at the weights with Truckers Lodge after the latter's 3lb claim).
    Beaten fav himself in a 3 runner novice last time out (still a maiden after 11 chases) and has a result debuts in blinkers today. Could make the diff. Regular pilot, Festival-winner Adam Wedge, on board.
  • Thanks Peanuts. What are the chances of the GN going ahead? I can cash out my placings to lump on today?
  • edited March 2020
    CHG said:
    Thanks Peanuts. What are the chances of the GN going ahead? I can cash out my placings to lump on today?
    Regrettably my GN crystal ball has developed a sore throat and is self-isolating.
    Haven't a clue @CHG, except that it seems highly probable that mass gatherings will shortly be banned for a period - difficult to see that not including 4 April so hard to see the GN being run with spectators.
    BHA and Aintree and others must already be discussing viability of running it behind closed doors or postponing but, personally, I don't see a postponement being viable. Some have speculated about replacing the Becher chase next Dec but I can't see that for a number of reasons. 
    To reassure, as @PolzeathNick said on the GN thread, bets should be void and stakes refunded if it's postponed or cancelled.
    Personally, however confident I felt about picks in the race today or any other, especially having several ante-post GN interests at tasty prices interests (incl KC at 50/1, now 20s and could easily go off near fav if going's soft, especially if Tiger's scratched and weights rise), I'd never cash them in to bet elsewhere - I've a lot more conviction in my GN model than my nose (runny or not)   :)

  • Thanks Peanuts, can’t see it happening, like you say, mass events will be culled. Good luck with today’s picks. 
  • edited March 2020
    CHG said:
    Thanks Peanuts, can’t see it happening, like you say, mass events will be culled. Good luck with today’s picks. 
    Cheers @CHG
    Thinking on a little, I'm inclined to agree.
    I imagine they may propose running it behind closed doors but it's only a matter of time before a jockey's diagnosed with it and the whole weighing room has to go into self isolation.
    What a drag.
    Anyway, enjoy this afternoon - I hope we're in the money.
  • Surprising that not much appeals each way to you in this Peanuts (but then there aren't loads of runners!). I quite like Christmas In April for the win, and Sheneededtherun for some place value - stamina a big forte and knowing how to win is a big plus. 
  • edited March 2020
    PaddyP17 said:
    Surprising that not much appeals each way to you in this Peanuts (but then there aren't loads of runners!). I quite like Christmas In April for the win, and Sheneededtherun for some place value - stamina a big forte and knowing how to win is a big plus. 
    I tend to have to do it thru gritted teeth to back anything e/w that's <16/1 (especially in these sad days of 1/5 odds generally) but that's me.
    Both of mine e/w in the end as I got on before they'd contracted this morning - what the hell. Just kick myself if either got touched off and they'll hopefully both be in the mix.
    You had Regal Flow (trumping my Milansbar) a couple of years back if memory serves. 
    Good luck with yours today @PaddyP17 Thought long and hard about your mare today. Can't recall what swung me agin (probably the even bigger rise in the handicap than Petite Power's had but Regal Flow had done likewise I think) - will no doubt regret it. 

  • Midnight Tune bypassed Cheltenham for today's race at Uttoxeter
  • Legal Eyes in that last race at Kempton, the worst fall I’ve seen I think. So sad.
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  • That was awful to watch
  • edited March 2020
    *Tweet Deleted*

    What a twat
  • CHG said:
    I’ll have a nibble with you Peanuts. 
    Very sorry @CHG,
    Disappointing, to say the least - fair play to the winner but gutted both mine bombed as badly.
    Nice pick for a place by @PaddyP17 - well done mate.

  • No problem @PeanutsMolloy, you win some you lose some. Just nice to be able to follow some sport this afternoon to be honest!!
  • CHG said:
    I’ll have a nibble with you Peanuts. 
    Very sorry @CHG,
    Disappointing, to say the least - fair play to the winner but gutted both mine bombed as badly.
    Nice pick for a place by @PaddyP17 - well done mate.

    Think most places would have offered four places, so good news if anyone was on. 
  • Two years ago one of my horses Oxford Blu ran at the Cheltenham Festival. A dream come true that was short lived after nearly getting brought down and taken out of the race at the second hurdle. Since that day he has completely lost his form and we have tried different distances, jockeys, headgear and even an all weather flat race. Every jockey has reported back the same thing 'travels well and feels a quality horse but when asked to go and win the race he simply downs tools and gives up but then when all horses have passed him he picks up and runs on' Olly Murphy has said a lot of juvenile horses lose form in second year so it could be that or as is mainly believed its all in the horses head. Tomorrow he runs at Market Rasen 2.50 after a complete break of nearly 10 months even having a holiday away from the stables. He is spot on fitness wise and a massive 29lbs well in on old form so after tomorrow's race we will know he was absolutely thrown in and should of cleaned up with the bookies or he just no longer wants to race. No matter what happens tomorrow the horse is all that matters so if he shows nothing a nice retirement beckons but he is showing all his zest at home and is still a very young horse. Anyway enough waffle just thought I'd keep you all updated after the excitement of the Festival two years ago and will just add I will not be backing him as I just haven't a clue how he will run. 
    Hope he runs well for you. 
  • Two years ago one of my horses Oxford Blu ran at the Cheltenham Festival. A dream come true that was short lived after nearly getting brought down and taken out of the race at the second hurdle. Since that day he has completely lost his form and we have tried different distances, jockeys, headgear and even an all weather flat race. Every jockey has reported back the same thing 'travels well and feels a quality horse but when asked to go and win the race he simply downs tools and gives up but then when all horses have passed him he picks up and runs on' Olly Murphy has said a lot of juvenile horses lose form in second year so it could be that or as is mainly believed its all in the horses head. Tomorrow he runs at Market Rasen 2.50 after a complete break of nearly 10 months even having a holiday away from the stables. He is spot on fitness wise and a massive 29lbs well in on old form so after tomorrow's race we will know he was absolutely thrown in and should of cleaned up with the bookies or he just no longer wants to race. No matter what happens tomorrow the horse is all that matters so if he shows nothing a nice retirement beckons but he is showing all his zest at home and is still a very young horse. Anyway enough waffle just thought I'd keep you all updated after the excitement of the Festival two years ago and will just add I will not be backing him as I just haven't a clue how he will run. 
    Fingers crossed for you and Oxford Blu @killer kish
    All the best.
  • KK, see it finished 5th, checked result on ATR and said yours was held up, wide and headway 3 out, ridden next, kept on same pace.

    Was it the same type of performance or was he a bit more interested? You going to persevere or give him his retirement?

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