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Joe Gomez (ed. ongoing progress)

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  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Davo55 said:
    Yes, he grew into the game today and showed quite a few moments of class. His speed and tackling on the deck is great but he needs to develop more aerial presence and power - and a bit more ambition going forward too. Most of his passes are sideways to VVD or TAA so they can take the responsibility of trying to launch an attack. But well worth his start today.
    Why does every CB now have to be good on the ball. Sarr is good on the ball and then costs us goals defensively. Would prefer a CB defends first and then adds other areas to his game afterwards. 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,437
    Because its the Man City way... So every team has to try and adopt it
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,814
    Agree that defenders should be stopping goal threats but also one of the ways of song that is having the ball higher up the pitch.

    Winning the ball and then doing something with it is better than blasting it into the stands where there is an attacking throw in. 

    Agricultural decent ding isn’t as good as ability to tackle and turn it into an attacking position. 

    Ability to turn everything into an attacking position apart from letting through 3 goals is also not an ideal blend but surely if you can stop and turn to attack that must be better than just stopping. 
  • Davo55
    Davo55 Posts: 7,836
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Davo55 said:
    Yes, he grew into the game today and showed quite a few moments of class. His speed and tackling on the deck is great but he needs to develop more aerial presence and power - and a bit more ambition going forward too. Most of his passes are sideways to VVD or TAA so they can take the responsibility of trying to launch an attack. But well worth his start today.
    Why does every CB now have to be good on the ball. Sarr is good on the ball and then costs us goals defensively. Would prefer a CB defends first and then adds other areas to his game afterwards. 
    It maybe isn’t important for everyone but in this case, with Liverpool preferring to play it out from the back, it limits their options if Gomez isn’t able to contribute in that way. TAA, VVD and Robertson all contribute going forward, Joe doesn’t, and that will be to his detriment both for Liverpool and England, if there are better options available.  Joe is lucky in some respects that neither Lovren or Matip are particularly good at this either, so he stands a chance of cementing his place. 
  • AllHailTheHen
    AllHailTheHen Posts: 3,063
    Davo55 said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Davo55 said:
    Yes, he grew into the game today and showed quite a few moments of class. His speed and tackling on the deck is great but he needs to develop more aerial presence and power - and a bit more ambition going forward too. Most of his passes are sideways to VVD or TAA so they can take the responsibility of trying to launch an attack. But well worth his start today.
    Why does every CB now have to be good on the ball. Sarr is good on the ball and then costs us goals defensively. Would prefer a CB defends first and then adds other areas to his game afterwards. 
    It maybe isn’t important for everyone but in this case, with Liverpool preferring to play it out from the back, it limits their options if Gomez isn’t able to contribute in that way. TAA, VVD and Robertson all contribute going forward, Joe doesn’t, and that will be to his detriment both for Liverpool and England, if there are better options available.  Joe is lucky in some respects that neither Lovren or Matip are particularly good at this either, so he stands a chance of cementing his place. 
    At the beginning of last season I remember several pundits commenting on how good Gomez was on the ball and bringing it forward. I just think his confidence is low at the moment after yet another injury setback. If he can get back to last season's form he will be England's best all round centre back IMO.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Davo55 said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    Davo55 said:
    Yes, he grew into the game today and showed quite a few moments of class. His speed and tackling on the deck is great but he needs to develop more aerial presence and power - and a bit more ambition going forward too. Most of his passes are sideways to VVD or TAA so they can take the responsibility of trying to launch an attack. But well worth his start today.
    Why does every CB now have to be good on the ball. Sarr is good on the ball and then costs us goals defensively. Would prefer a CB defends first and then adds other areas to his game afterwards. 
    It maybe isn’t important for everyone but in this case, with Liverpool preferring to play it out from the back, it limits their options if Gomez isn’t able to contribute in that way. TAA, VVD and Robertson all contribute going forward, Joe doesn’t, and that will be to his detriment both for Liverpool and England, if there are better options available.  Joe is lucky in some respects that neither Lovren or Matip are particularly good at this either, so he stands a chance of cementing his place. 
    True but with the players around him he doesn’t need to be good on the ball as he will always have a simple outlet. 

    Stones won reviews for it for Everton and England but then his defending let him down. Gomez won’t have any issues getting past him for England if he stays fit and injury free. 
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Because its the Man City way... So every team has to try and adopt it
    Doing them the world of good this season. 

    They might be missing a good old fashioned CB like Kompany...
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,814
    Gomez on form can totally play the ball out. 
  • sirjohnhumphrey
    sirjohnhumphrey Posts: 1,860
    edited December 2019
    I don’t think the phenomenon of centre backs bringing the ball out is actually valid. Who really does it regularly in the premiership?
    Maguire a little. None of the Arsenal players do, or City. Neither of the Leicester central defenders do. Whichever of Spurs’ centre backs are playing aren’t known for it.
    He does the job of a centre back, win the ball and give it to others. He’s judged first and foremost on his defending which he is very good at.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    I don’t think the phenomenon of centre backs bringing the ball out is actually valid. Who really does it regularly in the premiership?
    Maguire a little. None of the Arsenal players do, or City. Neither of the Leicester central defenders do. Whichever of Spurs’ centre backs are playing aren’t known for it.
    He does the job of a centre back, win the ball and give it to others. He’s judged first and foremost on his defending which he is very good at.
    Disagree, it’s been mirrored because of the success of Barca, Spain etc and then City over here. 

    People were raving about Stones and justifying his price tag because he was good on the ball. It earned him a move to City when there were better CBs out there. City are known for it, so I massively disagree with you saying they don’t. Both Stones and Laporte were bought by Pep to do just that. He even signs keepers who are good footballers. Both Aldeweireld and Vertonghen do it from what I have seen, although the formers pass to Alli recently was superb. 

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  • sirjohnhumphrey
    sirjohnhumphrey Posts: 1,860
    cafcfan1990 said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    I don’t think the phenomenon of centre backs bringing the ball out is actually valid. Who really does it regularly in the premiership?
    Maguire a little. None of the Arsenal players do, or City. Neither of the Leicester central defenders do. Whichever of Spurs’ centre backs are playing aren’t known for it.
    He does the job of a centre back, win the ball and give it to others. He’s judged first and foremost on his defending which he is very good at.
    Disagree, it’s been mirrored because of the success of Barca, Spain etc and then City over here. 

    People were raving about Stones and justifying his price tag because he was good on the ball. It earned him a move to City when there were better CBs out there. City are known for it, so I massively disagree with you saying they don’t. Both Stones and Laporte were bought by Pep to do just that. He even signs keepers who are good footballers. Both Aldeweireld and Vertonghen do it from what I have seen, although the formers pass to Alli recently was superb. 
    That’s hardly a massive vindication or endorsement of its regularity. Stones, Laporte and maybe the Tottenham centre backs, which I would contest anyway. Who is really mirroring it? It isn’t rife in the Premiership is my point and as long as Joe’s strengths eg his pace, positioning and calmness are back where they were at the start of last season then he should get in the Liverpool and England team easily.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    sirjohnhumphrey said:
    I don’t think the phenomenon of centre backs bringing the ball out is actually valid. Who really does it regularly in the premiership?
    Maguire a little. None of the Arsenal players do, or City. Neither of the Leicester central defenders do. Whichever of Spurs’ centre backs are playing aren’t known for it.
    He does the job of a centre back, win the ball and give it to others. He’s judged first and foremost on his defending which he is very good at.
    Disagree, it’s been mirrored because of the success of Barca, Spain etc and then City over here. 

    People were raving about Stones and justifying his price tag because he was good on the ball. It earned him a move to City when there were better CBs out there. City are known for it, so I massively disagree with you saying they don’t. Both Stones and Laporte were bought by Pep to do just that. He even signs keepers who are good footballers. Both Aldeweireld and Vertonghen do it from what I have seen, although the formers pass to Alli recently was superb. 
    That’s hardly a massive vindication or endorsement of its regularity. Stones, Laporte and maybe the Tottenham centre backs, which I would contest anyway. Who is really mirroring it? It isn’t rife in the Premiership is my point and as long as Joe’s strengths eg his pace, positioning and calmness are back where they were at the start of last season then he should get in the Liverpool and England team easily.
    I think a lot of Premiership clubs are trying to play out from the back now from what I see. The days of smashing it forward to a hold up striker are fading. 

    Klopp and Pep definitely encourage it shown by the two keepers and two CBs Pep has bought at City. 
  • RC_CAFC
    RC_CAFC Posts: 1,757
    I think the interesting case in point on this recently has been Sheffield United. Their 3 at the back has been allowing them to come forward regularly. I think where Bow has been playing 3 at the back recently (out of necessity with injuries more than anything else) we have seen him paying slight homage to that style. It allows Lockyer and Sarr to come away with the ball. Defenders will always first and foremost be judged on goals conceded but having one that can start attacks and get a team on the front foot quickly is worth its weight in gold
  • EricBanterna
    EricBanterna Posts: 1,740
    Also you need to take the recent rule change of defenders being able to receive the ball in their own box from goal kicks. I think the idea is to draw the opponents forward and create gaps. So naturally the defence should be half decent ball players or dribblers of the ball. Which in turn creates space. And what I've seen of Gomez he did and does that well. Lack of continuity of games and confidence had effected him recently 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,028
    cafcfan1990 said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Because its the Man City way... So every team has to try and adopt it
    Doing them the world of good this season. 

    They might be missing a good old fashioned CB like Kompany...
    Missing 3 really. Kompany gone, Laporte long term injury and Stones has also missed half their games through injury.
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    The entire footballing world knows Gomez has it all. It would be wonderful to see him play in top gear after his nasty injury, which lets not forget was misdiagnosed by Liverpool too (conservative treatment did not work and needed an op 6 weeks later). He is at his best when playing in an intense do or die manner, rather than in a VVD approach as he reads the game incredibly well and can use his physique very effectively when he wants. 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,437
    Looking much better against Flamengo tonight compared with recent performances

    Just making everything look simple
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,814
    I’ve been watching some of that and he looks really good this evening. Good work. 
  • CafcWest
    CafcWest Posts: 6,171
    Joe back to his best.  Made some great stops tonight and some great forward passes.  Good to see for him and for England.
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,814
    Yes and two decent defensive headers in the last few seconds to help close the game out. 

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  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,437
    Best £3.5m ever spent on a Centre-Back!!

    Champions League winner / Club World Cup winner now
  • Raith_C_Chattonell
    Raith_C_Chattonell Posts: 5,684
    All very well learning off Van Dijk, but what a player he'd be, had he'd played alongside Naby Sarr in the Championship.
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,405
    That was the Joe Gomez we all know on show tonight. Excellent.
  • aliwibble
    aliwibble Posts: 26,300
    Don't suppose winning the World Club Championship was one of the add-ons from the marvellous deal that Katrien negotiated, was it?
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,658
    Raith_C_Chattonell said:
    All very well learning off Van Dijk, but what a player he'd be, had he'd played alongside Naby Sarr in the Championship.
    His finishing would have improved.
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    aliwibble said:
    Don't suppose winning the World Club Championship was one of the add-ons from the marvellous deal that Katrien negotiated, was it?
    How dare you question the negotiating skills of our beloved and much missed Katrien.

    Duchatalet now expecting another £150 and a Christian Lacroix handbag as a result of Firmino's goal.

    The woman was a visionary and the total lack of respect from some of you disgusts me.
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,231
    edited December 2019
    Joe Gomez who had slipped to 4th choice CB until Injuries to Lovern and Matip, at last is playing in his best position along side the best CB around in Van DiJk. Plus having England's best passing RB in Trent Alexander-Arnold as an outlet. 
    Joe has been so unlucky with injuries since leaving Cafc (Opposite of most players who get injuries when joining Cafc) 
    Joe's most assured game for some time and If he can stay fit then he must get one of the defensive positions in a 3-5-2 for England with TAA and Chilwell as the wing backs. 
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,028
    aliwibble said:
    Don't suppose winning the World Club Championship was one of the add-ons from the marvellous deal that Katrien negotiated, was it?
    Doubt she even knows the competition exists.
  • vff
    vff Posts: 6,882
    Excellent performance. Centre back is clearly Joe Gomez' best position. Would have loved for him to be winning things with Charlton & that we had kept all our excellent youngsters, rather than cashing them in cheaply.

    On a positive note, its a brilliant advert for Charton's Academy. Starting at Charlton and now jon of the players getting a European Champion League and World Club Champions winner.

    Congratulations to Joe Gomez.
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,483
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Because its the Man City way... So every team has to try and adopt it
    What a curious comment?

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