I've Just read some of the Website that supports Evans, to see where they're coming from, so to speak.
A couple of points interested me: Firstly, there seems to be minimal, if any, indisputable evidence, but an awful lot of 'well, she doesn't look shitfaced to me!' type statements, a bunch of statements from people saying they 'know' Ched is not guilty and a whole lot of pointing at circumstantial factors and saying 'look at how the nasty old media spun it.' I just can't see how they can win unless they manage to hound the girl into giving up and saying 'Oh alright, I DID give consent.'
Secondly, the 'letter from a very brave lady' is interesting, not only because of the team she supports, but also because I think the viewpoint she has is of interest. It may or may not apply to the Evans case, but I'd be interested to know if a lot of people feel the same way as this with regards to some claims of rape.
Colt I was talking about this case I did say football should be self policing, in most other professions there would be no adulation and hero worship from kids and the victim would not face the prospect of turning on the TV or opening a newspaper and seeing her rapist.
There are various arguments and counter-arguments surrounding the employment of high profile convicts. On one hand, a football club should demonstrate that they should serve the local community and employing a sex offender in such a lucrative job role is likely to be damaging to their local community. On the other hand, everyone who can work should be allowed to work. People are complaining that he shouldn't be allowed to be a footballer, but it's a bit insulting to other professions if they feel he should be allowed to be, say, a binman or a landscape gardener.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
As I understand it you can have committed a relatively minor crime 30 plus years ago, such as non-violent drunk and disorderly for instance, yet still not be allowed to travel to the USA because of your criminal record. It certainly was the case (not sure if it still is to be honest) that such a relatively trivial crime would debar you from entry to professions such as the law, accountancy etc too.
Actions have consequences and those consequences act as a deterrent to taking those actions.
Rehabilitation is fine up to a point. Whilst it is distasteful to me, and I would not want to see either of them at Charlton, I can just about understand why Lee Hughes and Luke Mc Cormack are still allowed to play football. They both committed the crime of driving under the influence of alcohol but there was no INTENT to kill even though that was the tragic consequence in both cases. They were punished and served what was deemed to be their time. (The question of the adequacy of those punishments is not for this thread).
Rape though is different because it is a crime of direct intent. It has to be by its sheer nature. Someone forces someone else to have sex against their consent.
Can a high profile profession such as professional football condone such a disgusting act by allowing a convicted perpetrator back into its spotlight? I think not just as the young would be solicitor or accountant who stupidly has one over the eight is punished for life.
I would not bar him from working behind the scenes should he wish to work in a footballing environment. There are white lines to be painted and training kits to be washed as long as the convicted sex offender is properly segregated from children and vulnerable adults. The game can then properly be said to be assisting in rehabilitation to society but in my view a convicted rapist has forfeited his right to the trappings and glamour of the modern professional game.
Colt I was talking about this case I did say football should be self policing, in most other professions there would be no adulation and hero worship from kids and the victim would not face the prospect of turning on the TV or opening a newspaper and seeing her rapist.
It goes back to my point. We should be guided our kids as to who they should consider role models. Ched Evans should be used as an example of what not to do.
There are various arguments and counter-arguments surrounding the employment of high profile convicts. On one hand, a football club should demonstrate that they should serve the local community and employing a sex offender in such a lucrative job role is likely to be damaging to their local community. On the other hand, everyone who can work should be allowed to work. People are complaining that he shouldn't be allowed to be a footballer, but it's a bit insulting to other professions if they feel he should be allowed to be, say, a binman or a landscape gardener.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
All very valid points.
It might be worth pointing out that could he be protesting his innocence because he actually is innocent? No legal process is 100% accurate. People will be banged up wrongly all the time. And until we can read peoples minds and have 100% accurate lie detector tests, it will continue to happen.
Nobody here, despite the accusations and claims, know what happened in that room. It may well be that he was done hook line and sinker by some particular evidence. But rape will always have a certain element of one persons word versus another - which must make it so hard to judge. And hence why any wrongful conviction can be SO damaging to future genuine victims coming forward or seeing justice served.
Colt, how do you explain to an eight year old that it is ok to consider Johnnie Jackson a hero and cheer his goals but not Ched Evans? I am not talking in terms of a role model.
Evans has failed twice to create any reasonable doubt that he did indeed commit rape.
The issue for me is, when the appeal court throws out the next appeal, will he then acknowledge his wrong doing and his behaviour, I doubt he will, he, his family, girlfriend and his lickspittle supporters will still act like he is the victim.
Look what happened to Michael Barrymore, he was in the entertainment industry. My personal take is that I would not go to watch any football match where Evans is playing or even a sub.
And can we stop with this bollocks that he has served his time, he hasn't, he's out on license, and could easily return to jail if he steps out of line at any point, during this time.
Usually I am not for violent retribution but if I were an ageing defender lining up against C Evans I would seriously contemplate rearranging the bloke's leg. Nothing good can possibly come of him playing pro football now. The atmosphere would be horrendous and I'm certain that some players would be unhappy to share the field with him.
Colt, how do you explain to an eight year old that it is ok to consider Johnnie Jackson a hero and cheer his goals but not Ched Evans? I am not talking in terms of a role model.
Does that not go for anyone who has ever done anything wrong or should we not allow anyone who has been convicted of a crime in the public eye?
Usually I am not for violent retribution but if I were an ageing defender lining up against C Evans I would seriously contemplate rearranging the bloke's leg. Nothing good can possibly come of him playing pro football now. The atmosphere would be horrendous and I'm certain that some players would be unhappy to share the field with him.
I can quite imagine many footballers, especially the younger flashier ones, having sympathy with him, as they live in the same cosseted world of big money, and women throwing themselves at them
If CE had come and said he deeply regretted his actions, could see his actions were reprehensible and he would work hard to educate footballers and the general population, as well as a full heartfelt apology to the girl, you could at least see a way for him to be accepted back into the football world.
There are various arguments and counter-arguments surrounding the employment of high profile convicts. On one hand, a football club should demonstrate that they should serve the local community and employing a sex offender in such a lucrative job role is likely to be damaging to their local community. On the other hand, everyone who can work should be allowed to work. People are complaining that he shouldn't be allowed to be a footballer, but it's a bit insulting to other professions if they feel he should be allowed to be, say, a binman or a landscape gardener.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
All very valid points.
It might be worth pointing out that could he be protesting his innocence because he actually is innocent? No legal process is 100% accurate. People will be banged up wrongly all the time. And until we can read peoples minds and have 100% accurate lie detector tests, it will continue to happen.
Nobody here, despite the accusations and claims, know what happened in that room. It may well be that he was done hook line and sinker by some particular evidence. But rape will always have a certain element of one persons word versus another - which must make it so hard to judge. And hence why any wrongful conviction can be SO damaging to future genuine victims coming forward or seeing justice served.
Really? So a woman is walking through a park in the middle of the afternoon and some bloke springs from behind a bush, forces her to the ground and violently rapes her? Where is the element of one persons word against another there?
Usually I am not for violent retribution but if I were an ageing defender lining up against C Evans I would seriously contemplate rearranging the bloke's leg. Nothing good can possibly come of him playing pro football now. The atmosphere would be horrendous and I'm certain that some players would be unhappy to share the field with him.
I can quite imagine many footballers, especially the younger flashier ones, having sympathy with him, as they live in the same cosseted world of big money, and women throwing themselves at them
There are various arguments and counter-arguments surrounding the employment of high profile convicts. On one hand, a football club should demonstrate that they should serve the local community and employing a sex offender in such a lucrative job role is likely to be damaging to their local community. On the other hand, everyone who can work should be allowed to work. People are complaining that he shouldn't be allowed to be a footballer, but it's a bit insulting to other professions if they feel he should be allowed to be, say, a binman or a landscape gardener.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
All very valid points.
It might be worth pointing out that could he be protesting his innocence because he actually is innocent? No legal process is 100% accurate. People will be banged up wrongly all the time. And until we can read peoples minds and have 100% accurate lie detector tests, it will continue to happen.
Nobody here, despite the accusations and claims, know what happened in that room. It may well be that he was done hook line and sinker by some particular evidence. But rape will always have a certain element of one persons word versus another - which must make it so hard to judge. And hence why any wrongful conviction can be SO damaging to future genuine victims coming forward or seeing justice served.
Yes, this is also a valid point. I didn't include the fact that he is innocent as a possible option as society considers him to be guilty, and until his conviction is overturned, we must assume he is guilty in order to allow rehabilitation to begin. I would include him thinking he is innocent under the umbrella of failing to understand why he was found guilty. I will be honest, I was somewhat surprised when he was found guilty given that the other defendant was found not guilty and that out of the 3 people present at the time the crime took place, the only one claiming there was no consent was also the only person with no recollection of the crime. Evans has reasonable avenues available to protest his innocence. However, should he fail to overturn his conviction, then it would only be acceptable to most people for him to return to his former role if he were to accept his guilt and make reparations.
There are various arguments and counter-arguments surrounding the employment of high profile convicts. On one hand, a football club should demonstrate that they should serve the local community and employing a sex offender in such a lucrative job role is likely to be damaging to their local community. On the other hand, everyone who can work should be allowed to work. People are complaining that he shouldn't be allowed to be a footballer, but it's a bit insulting to other professions if they feel he should be allowed to be, say, a binman or a landscape gardener.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
All very valid points.
It might be worth pointing out that could he be protesting his innocence because he actually is innocent? No legal process is 100% accurate. People will be banged up wrongly all the time. And until we can read peoples minds and have 100% accurate lie detector tests, it will continue to happen.
Nobody here, despite the accusations and claims, know what happened in that room. It may well be that he was done hook line and sinker by some particular evidence. But rape will always have a certain element of one persons word versus another - which must make it so hard to judge. And hence why any wrongful conviction can be SO damaging to future genuine victims coming forward or seeing justice served.
Really? So a woman is walking through a park in the middle of the afternoon and some bloke springs from behind a bush, forces her to the ground and violently rapes her? Where is the element of one persons word against another there?
Those cases are the unusual ones, most cases are much less clear cut than that, one of the things that explains the very low conviction rate I guess. 2 people have sex, one says it's consensual the other that it wasn't, with no witnesses.
There are various arguments and counter-arguments surrounding the employment of high profile convicts. On one hand, a football club should demonstrate that they should serve the local community and employing a sex offender in such a lucrative job role is likely to be damaging to their local community. On the other hand, everyone who can work should be allowed to work. People are complaining that he shouldn't be allowed to be a footballer, but it's a bit insulting to other professions if they feel he should be allowed to be, say, a binman or a landscape gardener.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
All very valid points.
It might be worth pointing out that could he be protesting his innocence because he actually is innocent? No legal process is 100% accurate. People will be banged up wrongly all the time. And until we can read peoples minds and have 100% accurate lie detector tests, it will continue to happen.
Nobody here, despite the accusations and claims, know what happened in that room. It may well be that he was done hook line and sinker by some particular evidence. But rape will always have a certain element of one persons word versus another - which must make it so hard to judge. And hence why any wrongful conviction can be SO damaging to future genuine victims coming forward or seeing justice served.
Really? So a woman is walking through a park in the middle of the afternoon and some bloke springs from behind a bush, forces her to the ground and violently rapes her? Where is the element of one persons word against another there?
Don't try and make out I am saying things I am not. There are degrees of all crimes - and that is clearly a vicious example of the act of rape. For justice to be served, you would still need witnesses, medical evidence, cctv etc. That's my point though. No legal process is bullet proof. In some cases (and it is frightening to think in your example) it can still be one word against another.
My gut feel in this case is that there must have been some kind of evidence there, but we just dont know for sure.
I am glad I wasn't on a rape case on jury service, I will say that much.
Footballers are paid to play football like I am to play with electrics I've been through the courts for something not rape I may add but it didn't stop my career and so I shouldn't his, he has done what the courts asked of him and so should be able to resume his life. If he was an accountant would people be moaning no, I think people are jealous because he earns more money than they do, shoot me down I don't care
Its an interesting point raised here: How does conviction of a sexual offence legitimately preclude someone from earning a living as a professional footballer? Which convictions should be considered OK and allow you to carry on playing professionally and which should preclude you from playing? Who gets to decide this and how?
In other - genuine - 'professions' such as medicine, law or accountancy then a criminal conviction would probably preclude you from further pursuing your career - largely because you would not be considered fit and proper to conduct yourself in an environment where 100% trust and integrity is required.
It would be very hard to make the same case about professional footballers whose meaningful societal contributions - outside the narrow confines of the playing field - are largely negligible.
Perhaps given the amount footballers earn at all of our expense, and the influence they have on our kids, it is time that they be held up to similar standards as are meant to apply to the professions. I see nothing wrong at all with those earning higher salaries being required to give something back by being held to higher levels of responsibilities and standards - be they bankers, accountants, lawyers or footballers.
My gut feel in this case is that there must have been some kind of evidence there, but we just dont know for sure.
I am glad I wasn't on a rape case on jury service, I will say that much.
You keep hinting at a lack of evidence and that you don't know "for sure".
There was evidence. It was given in court. Where the Jury heard it. And agreed that they felt he was guilty "beyond reasonable doubt" which is the test in English law not that they "know for sure".
Once again Colt I am talking about this case, the guy is a convicted rapist. Football is a team sport so how do you explain to a child that it is ok to idolise 10 players on that team but not the eleventh. If he was an actor don't watch his films you don't have that choice in a team sport. if he was a TV presenter they would just not employ him, think back to John Leslie never convicted but the suggestion alone finished his TV career. In my opinion a rapist should be nowhere near a football club, clubs are huge parts of local communities and employing a rapist sends out completely the wrong message. There are some crimes that you just cannot say I have done my time let me carry on as before and rape is one of them
I must say that (compared to some threads on other message boards that I have seen) we have managed to discuss a very sensitive and serious subject with a lot of dignity and politeness amongst all of the board members.
It is not an easy subject to discuss, and I think we have done things in the right way on this thread.
Once again Colt I am talking about this case, the guy is a convicted rapist. Football is a team sport so how do you explain to a child that it is ok to idolise 10 players on that team but not the eleventh. If he was an actor don't watch his films you don't have that choice in a team sport. if he was a TV presenter they would just not employ him, think back to John Leslie never convicted but the suggestion alone finished his TV career. In my opinion a rapist should be nowhere near a football club, clubs are huge parts of local communities and employing a rapist sends out completely the wrong message. There are some crimes that you just cannot say I have done my time let me carry on as before and rape is one of them
If that's the case why let any rapist out at all? Or is it ok for him to go to another job and just not playing football? Would it be ok for him to say, train to be a plumber? Would that not then suggest that being a plumber is beneath playing football?
I do take on board your points but I think it's very dangerous ground to start saying, well you can't do this but you can do this after you are released.
My gut feel in this case is that there must have been some kind of evidence there, but we just dont know for sure.
I am glad I wasn't on a rape case on jury service, I will say that much.
You keep hinting at a lack of evidence and that you don't know "for sure".
There was evidence. It was given in court. Where the Jury heard it. And agreed that they felt he was guilty "beyond reasonable doubt" which is the test in English law not that they "know for sure".
I have to agree with Henry on this one, it's as clear cut as it can be for me. Judge and jury heard all the evidence and were given all the facts, they are far more qualified than anyone on here to decide what happened, and the verdict was guilty and if I recall correctly the decision was made pretty promptly.
We can be as sure as it is possible to be that he is guilty. He will protest, and his supporters will continue to protest but I can't help thinking that this is because of just how vile a crime it was. A bit of drunken stupidity or a scuffle in a nightclub can (and has) been swept under many footballing carpets. Rape can't, and shouldn't. He will always be a rapist now and frankly, deserves all the abuse he will get for it as far as I'm concerned.
First, the role model excuse. Come on. How many footballers can be considered role models? If kids do look at all footballers as role models then parents need to take a look at themselves. There are far more people we should be pointing out are better human beings.
Sorry but that is a load of rubbish.
As a football mad 7-14 year old I looked up at players like Rufus and Kinsella when I was younger. I loved the fact Rufus was a local guy and Kinsella was just Kins. They weren't world beaters but i certainly looked upto them as they worked hard against everyone and my dad was chuffed I did rather than a 'bigger' named player. If a child can relate to what their idol does then of course they will become a role model. I'd imagine alot of charlton kids look at our current captain JJ and think he is amazing and I don't think too many parents would 'take a look at themselves' if that was the case.
I coach kids and most obviously love Ronaldo, they like him because he is the best, but they know from what they read that he trains extra hard, moreso than a majority of footballers. Some of the stuff they come out with like he doesn't have tattoos so he can give blood is fantastic to hear.
Also another point,as others have said, the club represents the community, so should the players. Most clubs will visit a local hospice or hospital around Christmas to show the good . I would certainly say they are role models.
I stated earlier in the discussion, think of the victim she could turn on the TV and hear thousands of people chanting his name when she cannot even use the name she was born with because she was raped by a footballer.
If he was a plumber he wouldn't be a hero to young kids, he wouldn't get a standing ovation for fitting a new toilet. It is not suggesting that being a plumber is beneath being a footballer just different.
It is already the case that when you are released there are things you can and cannot do, this is nothing new, if a lawyer receives a criminal conviction he cannot then practice law when he is released.
Comments
A couple of points interested me:
Firstly, there seems to be minimal, if any, indisputable evidence, but an awful lot of 'well, she doesn't look shitfaced to me!' type statements, a bunch of statements from people saying they 'know' Ched is not guilty and a whole lot of pointing at circumstantial factors and saying 'look at how the nasty old media spun it.'
I just can't see how they can win unless they manage to hound the girl into giving up and saying 'Oh alright, I DID give consent.'
Secondly, the 'letter from a very brave lady' is interesting, not only because of the team she supports, but also because I think the viewpoint she has is of interest. It may or may not apply to the Evans case, but I'd be interested to know if a lot of people feel the same way as this with regards to some claims of rape.
More than anything else, however, is the fact that Evans is continuing to protest his innocence and has not made reasonable attempt to compensate the victim, which unfortunately is also part of the rehabilitation. If he was willing to admit that his actions were wrong, that he understood what he had done and that he wanted to make amends, then he could become a force for good and change. I feel this more than anything else (apart from being convicted of rape, of course) is harming his chances of being accepted by society in returning to his normal life. I'm not sure if it is pride, self-preservation or simply that he genuinely doesn't understand what he did wrong that is stopping him from owning up. I understand he is currently appealing the conviction, and once he has exhausted the appeals process, if the conviction isn't overturned/quashed, he needs to suck it up and own up to what he has done. That is what society expects and demands and unless he is willing to do so, he cannot reasonably expect to return to society on favourable terms.
Actions have consequences and those consequences act as a deterrent to taking those actions.
Rehabilitation is fine up to a point. Whilst it is distasteful to me, and I would not want to see either of them at Charlton, I can just about understand why Lee Hughes and Luke Mc Cormack are still allowed to play football. They both committed the crime of driving under the influence of alcohol but there was no INTENT to kill even though that was the tragic consequence in both cases. They were punished and served what was deemed to be their time. (The question of the adequacy of those punishments is not for this thread).
Rape though is different because it is a crime of direct intent. It has to be by its sheer nature. Someone forces someone else to have sex against their consent.
Can a high profile profession such as professional football condone such a disgusting act by allowing a convicted perpetrator back into its spotlight? I think not just as the young would be solicitor or accountant who stupidly has one over the eight is punished for life.
I would not bar him from working behind the scenes should he wish to work in a footballing environment. There are white lines to be painted and training kits to be washed as long as the convicted sex offender is properly segregated from children and vulnerable adults. The game can then properly be said to be assisting in rehabilitation to society but in my view a convicted rapist has forfeited his right to the trappings and glamour of the modern professional game.
It might be worth pointing out that could he be protesting his innocence because he actually is innocent? No legal process is 100% accurate. People will be banged up wrongly all the time. And until we can read peoples minds and have 100% accurate lie detector tests, it will continue to happen.
Nobody here, despite the accusations and claims, know what happened in that room. It may well be that he was done hook line and sinker by some particular evidence. But rape will always have a certain element of one persons word versus another - which must make it so hard to judge. And hence why any wrongful conviction can be SO damaging to future genuine victims coming forward or seeing justice served.
The issue for me is, when the appeal court throws out the next appeal, will he then acknowledge his wrong doing and his behaviour, I doubt he will, he, his family, girlfriend and his lickspittle supporters will still act like he is the victim.
But he has done none of that, so fck him.
My gut feel in this case is that there must have been some kind of evidence there, but we just dont know for sure.
I am glad I wasn't on a rape case on jury service, I will say that much.
If you knew he was gana be a goal machine and get 20+ goals a season...would you have him at Charlton?
Im a believer of in this particular instance he should be able to work again etc.
BUT..no would not have him at Charlton. Image of a club is important.
He got convicted of rape under a court of justice. Other opinions count...but in a way are not relevant.
I also think this story should not be getting the attention it does not deserve.
There was evidence. It was given in court. Where the Jury heard it. And agreed that they felt he was guilty "beyond reasonable doubt" which is the test in English law not that they "know for sure".
It is not an easy subject to discuss, and I think we have done things in the right way on this thread.
Well done all.
I do take on board your points but I think it's very dangerous ground to start saying, well you can't do this but you can do this after you are released.
We can be as sure as it is possible to be that he is guilty. He will protest, and his supporters will continue to protest but I can't help thinking that this is because of just how vile a crime it was. A bit of drunken stupidity or a scuffle in a nightclub can (and has) been swept under many footballing carpets. Rape can't, and shouldn't. He will always be a rapist now and frankly, deserves all the abuse he will get for it as far as I'm concerned.
As a football mad 7-14 year old I looked up at players like Rufus and Kinsella when I was younger. I loved the fact Rufus was a local guy and Kinsella was just Kins. They weren't world beaters but i certainly looked upto them as they worked hard against everyone and my dad was chuffed I did rather than a 'bigger' named player. If a child can relate to what their idol does then of course they will become a role model. I'd imagine alot of charlton kids look at our current captain JJ and think he is amazing and I don't think too many parents would 'take a look at themselves' if that was the case.
I coach kids and most obviously love Ronaldo, they like him because he is the best, but they know from what they read that he trains extra hard, moreso than a majority of footballers. Some of the stuff they come out with like he doesn't have tattoos so he can give blood is fantastic to hear.
Also another point,as others have said, the club represents the community, so should the players. Most clubs will visit a local hospice or hospital around Christmas to show the good . I would certainly say they are role models.
If he was a plumber he wouldn't be a hero to young kids, he wouldn't get a standing ovation for fitting a new toilet. It is not suggesting that being a plumber is beneath being a footballer just different.
It is already the case that when you are released there are things you can and cannot do, this is nothing new, if a lawyer receives a criminal conviction he cannot then practice law when he is released.