What's your opinion of the Jordan Cousins case? I believe Jordan was innocent but is that because he is one of our own and was not famous enough at the time for the family of the girl to keep pursuing it as they knew it wouldn't be worth their while.
If Jordan had been judged as guilty, would we be saying the wrong decision had been made or would we say he was a young lad and made a horrific mistake? Or would we say he should never play again?
Your first point is quite simply atrocious. 'worth their while' - as if entering something so traumatic as a rape trial is purely for financial reward or fame?
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
But would I believe he were guilty had been judged to be, as he was one of our own.
I think you will find cases have been thrown out against footballers in the past for the 'victim' only actually being interested in "financial reward or fame"
Absolutely what difference does it make if he's 'one of our own'?
So many of our fans, myself included would struggle to believe that one of our own would do such a thing.
It's like a friend or family member being accused of something, you can't believe it no matter what, even if found guilty you are certain of their innocence.
If it had been proven in a court of law then I think we'd have to get used to it
What's your opinion of the Jordan Cousins case? I believe Jordan was innocent but is that because he is one of our own and was not famous enough at the time for the family of the girl to keep pursuing it as they knew it wouldn't be worth their while.
If Jordan had been judged as guilty, would we be saying the wrong decision had been made or would we say he was a young lad and made a horrific mistake? Or would we say he should never play again?
Your first point is quite simply atrocious. 'worth their while' - as if entering something so traumatic as a rape trial is purely for financial reward or fame?
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
But would I believe he were guilty had been judged to be, as he was one of our own.
I think you will find cases have been thrown out against footballers in the past for the 'victim' only actually being interested in "financial reward or fame"
Absolutely what difference does it make if he's 'one of our own'?
So many of our fans, myself included would struggle to believe that one of our own would do such a thing.
It's like a friend or family member being accused of something, you can't believe it no matter what, even if found guilty you are certain of their innocence.
What's your opinion of the Jordan Cousins case? I believe Jordan was innocent but is that because he is one of our own and was not famous enough at the time for the family of the girl to keep pursuing it as they knew it wouldn't be worth their while.
If Jordan had been judged as guilty, would we be saying the wrong decision had been made or would we say he was a young lad and made a horrific mistake? Or would we say he should never play again?
Your first point is quite simply atrocious. 'worth their while' - as if entering something so traumatic as a rape trial is purely for financial reward or fame?
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
But would I believe he were guilty had been judged to be, as he was one of our own.
I think you will find cases have been thrown out against footballers in the past for the 'victim' only actually being interested in "financial reward or fame"
Absolutely what difference does it make if he's 'one of our own'?
So many of our fans, myself included would struggle to believe that one of our own would do such a thing.
It's like a friend or family member being accused of something, you can't believe it no matter what, even if found guilty you are certain of their innocence.
OK - now empathise with a Sheffield United fan in this exact same position. Would you still contend that the lad was innocent even after the judgement of the court? Would you fly in the face of every seeming quality? I know Evans wasn't a SUFC youth player so he's maybe less 'their own' than Cousins is 'ours', but imagine it DID happen. Imagine it was shown to be true that a Charlton player committed such a crime. You would HAVE to come to terms with it - difficult though this is.
What's your opinion of the Jordan Cousins case? I believe Jordan was innocent but is that because he is one of our own and was not famous enough at the time for the family of the girl to keep pursuing it as they knew it wouldn't be worth their while.
If Jordan had been judged as guilty, would we be saying the wrong decision had been made or would we say he was a young lad and made a horrific mistake? Or would we say he should never play again?
Your first point is quite simply atrocious. 'worth their while' - as if entering something so traumatic as a rape trial is purely for financial reward or fame?
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
But would I believe he were guilty had been judged to be, as he was one of our own.
I think you will find cases have been thrown out against footballers in the past for the 'victim' only actually being interested in "financial reward or fame"
Absolutely what difference does it make if he's 'one of our own'?
So many of our fans, myself included would struggle to believe that one of our own would do such a thing.
It's like a friend or family member being accused of something, you can't believe it no matter what, even if found guilty you are certain of their innocence.
That's utter madness. So because a man plays for a team you like you think you understand his morality ?
If one of our own did it I would expect the club to cast them out. Then redouble their efforts within the community, stand by a rape charity and say to the world this is wrong and it is unacceptable behaviour within civilised society.
If they swept it under the rug or brought the player back at a later date I would leave in disgust.
One example Dazzler and it involves me and I am being open now. I,was 15 years old and I between exercising some show jumpers had walked across a field to buy some same sweets. An Easter Sunday, 15:00 and 100% sober.i was forced to the ground by a man wearing a turquoise tie. He said if I struggled he would kill me. I persuaded him that we would be able to have sex without being seen if we moved to be behind a nearby hedge. He let go of me, I sprang up, kicked him in the head with my riding boots and ran off screaming. The police could not find him. On a bus some two months later I was with my boyfriend when my assailant got on, I recognised him instantly but had not been able to descibe him to the police. My boyfriend had gone to school with him and knew his address. He was arrested and it transpired that he had attached five other women with knitting needles! My dad was a policeman and the assailant, scared that the police would do him over in the police station ( a very realistic fear for those days) admitted all the assaults apart from mine. I thus entered the records as a complaint as the police decided to go with the admissions of guilt cases and mine was dropped. I am speaking openly for the first time ever as it is vital that everyone understands that the bits that you get to see in the newspapers do not necessarily represent the whole picture. I have always deeply resented the fact that my case was never brought to court.
Unless they were wrongfully imprisoned. ***NOT IMO THE CASE HERE*** However a fair sized portion of Sheffield fans did continue to contend his innocence?
Slight swerve here:
There was a postman from a while back, that appreciated being wrongfully imprisoned! He believed it had changed him for the better even though he had been innocent all along.
Thinking of that case, how is it CE got 5 years for allegedly committing rape, whereas the Postie got 17 years for attempted rape that he was proven to have been wrongly imprisoned for?
Because there are a lot more factors that go into determining the appropriate sentence in any given case than the paragraph you've provided.
Wow stilladdicted, huge respect to you for sharing that I can understand your feelings of resentment because in your eyes he was never punished for what he did to you and his guilt for that was never acknowledged x
Wow stilladdicted, huge respect to you for sharing that I can understand your feelings of resentment because in your eyes he was never punished for what he did to you and his guilt for that was never acknowledged x
Unless they were wrongfully imprisoned. ***NOT IMO THE CASE HERE***
Thinking of that case, how is it CE got 5 years for allegedly committing rape,
He did not get five years for ALLEGEDLY committing rape. He got five years for committing rape.
I used the term allegedly because I was then referring to the the story of a 17 year sentence which was a wrongful imprisonment.
Are you aware Ched Evans has been approached to have his entire trial investigated?
he hasn't been approached. His lawyers have asked it to be reviewed by an Appeals Committee. Let's not forget he was refused leave to appeal before because there was no new evidence and things havn't changed since so I hope he doesn't get his hopes up.
Unless they were wrongfully imprisoned. ***NOT IMO THE CASE HERE***
Thinking of that case, how is it CE got 5 years for allegedly committing rape,
He did not get five years for ALLEGEDLY committing rape. He got five years for committing rape.
I used the term allegedly because I was then referring to the the story of a 17 year sentence which was a wrongful imprisonment.
Are you aware Ched Evans has been approached to have his entire trial investigated?
Do you mean he is applying for leave to appeal his conviction ? If not, who has "approached" him and by what mechanism of the legal system have they done so ?
@stilladdicted I'm very sorry to hear that. I apologise if my comments have caused you any offence, none has been intended and your comment has only just loaded for me so apologise if my comments up until now cause you any offence.
Henry, Out of respect for @stilladdicted, I'm not going to continue bumping this thread with comments after this one. I have deleted my comments on this thread.
I apologise for using allegedly in the wrong context.
One example Dazzler and it involves me and I am being open now. I,was 15 years old and I between exercising some show jumpers had walked across a field to buy some same sweets. An Easter Sunday, 15:00 and 100% sober.i was forced to the ground by a man wearing a turquoise tie. He said if I struggled he would kill me. I persuaded him that we would be able to have sex without being seen if we moved to be behind a nearby hedge. He let go of me, I sprang up, kicked him in the head with my riding boots and ran off screaming. The police could not find him. On a bus some two months later I was with my boyfriend when my assailant got on, I recognised him instantly but had not been able to descibe him to the police. My boyfriend had gone to school with him and knew his address. He was arrested and it transpired that he had attached five other women with knitting needles! My dad was a policeman and the assailant, scared that the police would do him over in the police station ( a very realistic fear for those days) admitted all the assaults apart from mine. I thus entered the records as a complaint as the police decided to go with the admissions of guilt cases and mine was dropped. I am speaking openly for the first time ever as it is vital that everyone understands that the bits that you get to see in the newspapers do not necessarily represent the whole picture. I have always deeply resented the fact that my case was never brought to court.
You are an incredibly brave person, stilladdicted.
One example Dazzler and it involves me and I am being open now. I,was 15 years old and I between exercising some show jumpers had walked across a field to buy some same sweets. An Easter Sunday, 15:00 and 100% sober.i was forced to the ground by a man wearing a turquoise tie. He said if I struggled he would kill me. I persuaded him that we would be able to have sex without being seen if we moved to be behind a nearby hedge. He let go of me, I sprang up, kicked him in the head with my riding boots and ran off screaming. The police could not find him. On a bus some two months later I was with my boyfriend when my assailant got on, I recognised him instantly but had not been able to descibe him to the police. My boyfriend had gone to school with him and knew his address. He was arrested and it transpired that he had attached five other women with knitting needles! My dad was a policeman and the assailant, scared that the police would do him over in the police station ( a very realistic fear for those days) admitted all the assaults apart from mine. I thus entered the records as a complaint as the police decided to go with the admissions of guilt cases and mine was dropped. I am speaking openly for the first time ever as it is vital that everyone understands that the bits that you get to see in the newspapers do not necessarily represent the whole picture. I have always deeply resented the fact that my case was never brought to court.
A wonderfully brave post Stilladdicted.
Someone very close to me has gone through this. It affects everyone in a family, even after many years have passed and it will be with us for the rest of our lives.
It's an interesting debate but I just wish some fellow Lifers would stop to think for a second before posting flippant comments on such sensitive and emotive issues.
I genuinely hope no one else has to go through it. If you do, it will change your whole perception on so many things.
it transpired that he had attachedfive other women with knitting needles!
A stitch in time...
Sorry to jest but that's a great typo. Immense respect for that story.
My beef with that statement is total lack of acceptance of guilt other than for infidelity. So basically he doesn't accept, or has been told not to by advisors, his guilty verdict. So I find it really irritating that he still maintains that is acceptable behavior for a single guy? Is it fook!
I think putting more onus on the man to prove it was consensual can only be a good thing as it prioritises the role drink, drugs and vulnerability can play. So it's good law IMO and he hasn't got a hope of appeal.
Ched Evans - he sets the acceptable standards of sexual conduct when he wants to.
he is a skank but he is allowed to go back to work. Wouldn't get a job down our way no matter his talent and will be interesting to see whether most Blades want him back.
Utter an total respect for what you did and what you went through SA.
I just cant get my head round the fact that some on here seem to see this as in any way a lesser crime !!! its fecking RAPE.
I dont give a shit if it she had a tight top on---was pissed--was a kid---was homeless its RAPE
its dont matter if your a group whose ethnicity might cause some PC shit--or a celeb---or a footballer --your a piece of shit RAPIST who took advantage of someone because you thought you could get away with it.
He was found guilty ----his sentence is 5 years (not long).
I dont give a rats arse if he plays football again--------he should do the most humble job he is given for the rest of his life and be thankful for it.
and i'm not making light of it , i can't see how anyone can judge going back in time at what point someone would be giving consent or not in the situation where alcohol and drugs are concerned
The point is he has no contact with her until she was unconscious. She could never have given consent before as she hadn't been in contact with him.
Say I go on a lads holiday and bring a girl back to my room. Does the fact she came back for consensual sex with me mean that she was 'fair game' to the mates I was sharing a room with? Of course it doesn't. I don't understand where the grey area is in this.
Yes, but she also accused the other bloke of rape. Wouldn't that put doubt on the credibility of her accusations?
and i'm not making light of it , i can't see how anyone can judge going back in time at what point someone would be giving consent or not in the situation where alcohol and drugs are concerned
The point is he has no contact with her until she was unconscious. She could never have given consent before as she hadn't been in contact with him.
Say I go on a lads holiday and bring a girl back to my room. Does the fact she came back for consensual sex with me mean that she was 'fair game' to the mates I was sharing a room with? Of course it doesn't. I don't understand where the grey area is in this.
Yes, but she also accused the other bloke of rape. Wouldn't that put doubt on the credibility of her accusations?
"oh, two people raped you, at the same place and same time period? IMPOSSIBLE, YOURE LYING".
it's this kind of attitude that is absurdly damaging.
Comments
If they swept it under the rug or brought the player back at a later date I would leave in disgust.
My dad was a policeman and the assailant, scared that the police would do him over in the police station ( a very realistic fear for those days) admitted all the assaults apart from mine. I thus entered the records as a complaint as the police decided to go with the admissions of guilt cases and mine was dropped.
I am speaking openly for the first time ever as it is vital that everyone understands that the bits that you get to see in the newspapers do not necessarily represent the whole picture. I have always deeply resented the fact that my case was never brought to court.
It almost feels wrong to click like on that post.
Huge respect for coming on here and posting it.
I'm going to stop commenting on this thread now.
So what is Evan's case is being reviewed. At this point he was found guilty so there is no alleged about his crime.
If and when the case is reviewed and the verdict is overturned it will still not be "allegedly".
Out of respect for @stilladdicted, I'm not going to continue bumping this thread with comments after this one. I have deleted my comments on this thread.
I apologise for using allegedly in the wrong context.
Someone very close to me has gone through this. It affects everyone in a family, even after many years have passed and it will be with us for the rest of our lives.
It's an interesting debate but I just wish some fellow Lifers would stop to think for a second before posting flippant comments on such sensitive and emotive issues.
I genuinely hope no one else has to go through it. If you do, it will change your whole perception on so many things.
Sorry to jest but that's a great typo. Immense respect for that story.
My beef with that statement is total lack of acceptance of guilt other than for infidelity. So basically he doesn't accept, or has been told not to by advisors, his guilty verdict. So I find it really irritating that he still maintains that is acceptable behavior for a single guy? Is it fook!
I think putting more onus on the man to prove it was consensual can only be a good thing as it prioritises the role drink, drugs and vulnerability can play. So it's good law IMO and he hasn't got a hope of appeal.
Ched Evans - he sets the acceptable standards of sexual conduct when he wants to.
he is a skank but he is allowed to go back to work. Wouldn't get a job down our way no matter his talent and will be interesting to see whether most Blades want him back.
I just cant get my head round the fact that some on here seem to see this as in any way a lesser crime !!! its fecking RAPE.
I dont give a shit if it she had a tight top on---was pissed--was a kid---was homeless its RAPE
its dont matter if your a group whose ethnicity might cause some PC shit--or a celeb---or a footballer --your a piece of shit RAPIST who took advantage of someone because you thought you could get away with it.
He was found guilty ----his sentence is 5 years (not long).
I dont give a rats arse if he plays football again--------he should do the most humble job he is given for the rest of his life and be thankful for it.
it's this kind of attitude that is absurdly damaging.