it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
All, Think we run the risk of this thread side tracking into silly arguments away from the main points, or mainaining its level of respect for fellow posters. Please make the effort.
With the above, that's like saying someone who deliberately poisoned someone, or gave them a lethal injection, shouldnt be called a murderer because they didn't cave the persons head in with a brick.
If you go out and chat up a girl that's had a few drinks, and then have sex with her (which she was happy with at the time), if it is considered that she was too drunk to give consent, then legally that is rape.
A crime but clearly less severe than the predator attacking a woman and forcing himself against her will, and the sentencing will reflect this
it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
All, Think we run the risk of this thread side tracking into silly arguments away from the main points, or mainaining its level of respect for fellow posters. Please make the effort.
With the above, that's like saying someone who deliberately poisoned someone, or gave them a lethal injection, shouldnt be called a murderer because they didn't cave the persons head in with a brick.
No, I was extremely careful not to say he 'shouldn't' be called a rapist because I know what people on this site are like. And I was trying to avoid having to spell it out, but all I'm saying is there should be a clear distinction between those who plot, calculate, beat, assault, pin down, tie up, and god knows what else in order to force sex and those who sleep with someone, only to have that someone wake up in the morning and regret it.
If you go out and chat up a girl that's had a few drinks, and then have sex with her (which she was happy with at the time), if it is considered that she was too drunk to give consent, then legally that is rape.
A crime but clearly less severe than the predator attacking a woman and forcing himself against her will, and the sentencing will reflect this
I agree that there are varying degrees of severity in the eyes of the law and sentences reflect that. However, if you're the victim of rape you probably don't see it that way.
As usual, the only correct opinion on the matter is that he's absolute scum who should never be allowed to live, work or act normally ever again. Whatever your opinion and without going into detail about the absolute horrific nature of some rapes, it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
What a stupid thoughtless statement. He is a convicted rapist who shows no remorse at all.
As usual, the only correct opinion on the matter is that he's absolute scum who should never be allowed to live, work or act normally ever again. Whatever your opinion and without going into detail about the absolute horrific nature of some rapes, it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
What a stupid thoughtless statement. He is a convicted rapist who shows no remorse at all.
It's not stupid, as it's my opinion, and it's also not thoughtless as it was a considered statement. Remorse is irrevelevant. If you're too stupid to appreciate the comparison and need for distinction I offered, then don't reply.
As usual, the only correct opinion on the matter is that he's absolute scum who should never be allowed to live, work or act normally ever again. Whatever your opinion and without going into detail about the absolute horrific nature of some rapes, it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
What a stupid thoughtless statement. He is a convicted rapist who shows no remorse at all.
It's not stupid, as it's my opinion, and it's also not thoughtless as it was a considered statement. Remorse is irrevelevant. If you're too stupid to appreciate the comparison and need for distinction I offered, then don't reply.
It was a stupid and offensive comment followed by and even more stupid and offensive coment.
Grief if that is best you can do with a considered comment I shudder at the thought of an off the cuff remark! Have you any ideas what a truly dispicable crime rape is? Of course remorse is relevant.
I wouldn't be too proud of your opinion I were you. Acting as an apologist for rapists.
Murder .... manslaughter ... there is a difference .... for understandable reasons, the law doesn't make such distinctions for rape, doesn't mean there are not gradations, of course there are, as with most things.
As usual, the only correct opinion on the matter is that he's absolute scum who should never be allowed to live, work or act normally ever again. Whatever your opinion and without going into detail about the absolute horrific nature of some rapes, it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
What a stupid thoughtless statement. He is a convicted rapist who shows no remorse at all.
It's not stupid, as it's my opinion, and it's also not thoughtless as it was a considered statement. Remorse is irrevelevant. If you're too stupid to appreciate the comparison and need for distinction I offered, then don't reply.
It was a stupid and offensive comment followed by and even more stupid and offensive coment.
Grief if that is best you can do with a considered comment I shudder at the thought of an off the cuff remark! Have you any ideas what a truly dispicable crime rape is? Of course remorse is relevant.
I wouldn't be too proud of your opinion I were you. Acting as an apologist for rapists.
Now I'm an apologist for rapists? And I'm the one making stupid comments? You either have trouble with comprehension or you're purposely misreading my comments to serve your agenda. Either way, forget it, it's not worth it.
Murder .... manslaughter ... there is a difference .... for understandable reasons, the law doesn't make such distinctions for rape, doesn't mean there are not gradations, of course there are, as with most things.
As usual, the only correct opinion on the matter is that he's absolute scum who should never be allowed to live, work or act normally ever again. Whatever your opinion and without going into detail about the absolute horrific nature of some rapes, it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
What a stupid thoughtless statement. He is a convicted rapist who shows no remorse at all.
It's not stupid, as it's my opinion, and it's also not thoughtless as it was a considered statement. Remorse is irrevelevant. If you're too stupid to appreciate the comparison and need for distinction I offered, then don't reply.
It was a stupid and offensive comment followed by and even more stupid and offensive coment.
Grief if that is best you can do with a considered comment I shudder at the thought of an off the cuff remark! Have you any ideas what a truly dispicable crime rape is? Of course remorse is relevant.
I wouldn't be too proud of your opinion I were you. Acting as an apologist for rapists.
Now I'm an apologist for rapists? And I'm the one making stupid comments? You either have trouble with comprehension or you're purposely misreading my comments to serve your agenda. Either way, forget it, it's not worth it.
I think that you are the one with an agenda - you have spent all evening minimising the crimes of an unrepentant convicted rapist.
I am not misreading anything. you comments are very succinct and clear. Totally unambiguous.
it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
All, Think we run the risk of this thread side tracking into silly arguments away from the main points, or mainaining its level of respect for fellow posters. Please make the effort.
With the above, that's like saying someone who deliberately poisoned someone, or gave them a lethal injection, shouldnt be called a murderer because they didn't cave the persons head in with a brick.
No, I was extremely careful not to say he 'shouldn't' be called a rapist because I know what people on this site are like. And I was trying to avoid having to spell it out, but all I'm saying is there should be a clear distinction between those who plot, calculate, beat, assault, pin down, tie up, and god knows what else in order to force sex and those who sleep with someone, only to have that someone wake up in the morning and regret it.
But are we sure he didn't 'plot' or 'calculate' his attack? It wasn't his hotel room. He wasn't let in by the occupants of the room. He had mates outside filming what then occurred. This all suggests some form of planning. I doubt his mates were outside ready to film him make the girl a cup of coffee. He went there planning to have sex with her and, having not spoken to her at that point, didn't have her consent to do so. Not then, not later.
318 comments about the of rape laws in this country, the ethical and moral implications of hiring an ex-convict and a strong critique of whether this particular individual has undergone a full and thorough rehabilitation...and here's me just thinking we could do with another center forward.
But I'll tell you this for free, I hope he finds a job in football because he's not got a future in public speaking.
it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
All, Think we run the risk of this thread side tracking into silly arguments away from the main points, or mainaining its level of respect for fellow posters. Please make the effort.
With the above, that's like saying someone who deliberately poisoned someone, or gave them a lethal injection, shouldnt be called a murderer because they didn't cave the persons head in with a brick.
No, I was extremely careful not to say he 'shouldn't' be called a rapist because I know what people on this site are like. And I was trying to avoid having to spell it out, but all I'm saying is there should be a clear distinction between those who plot, calculate, beat, assault, pin down, tie up, and god knows what else in order to force sex and those who sleep with someone, only to have that someone wake up in the morning and regret it.
But are we sure he didn't 'plot' or 'calculate' his attack? It wasn't his hotel room. He wasn't let in by the occupants of the room. He had mates outside filming what then occurred. This all suggests some form of planning. I doubt his mates were outside ready to film him make the girl a cup of coffee. He went there planning to have sex with her and, having not spoken to her at that point, didn't have her consent to do so. Not then, not later.
He booked and paid for the room and put it in his friend's name
I am astounded by the mental contortions some people have gone through to minimise, blame shift and excuse this mans dispicable behaviour. Sex offenders will do that all of thier own volition and the lack of remorse shown by this man is classic behaviour illustrating this.
He has been been found guilty of Rape by all members of a jury and had his appeal rejected out of hand.
The only reason we are even having this debate is because he is trying to manipulate public opinion to allow the more morally bankrupt elements of our beautiful game (hear represented by Sheffield United) to make money with a rapist.
Some of you are unwittingly cheerleading this. Why?
it's not right that Evans will share the term 'rapist' with every violent rapist out there.
All, Think we run the risk of this thread side tracking into silly arguments away from the main points, or mainaining its level of respect for fellow posters. Please make the effort.
With the above, that's like saying someone who deliberately poisoned someone, or gave them a lethal injection, shouldnt be called a murderer because they didn't cave the persons head in with a brick.
No, I was extremely careful not to say he 'shouldn't' be called a rapist because I know what people on this site are like. And I was trying to avoid having to spell it out, but all I'm saying is there should be a clear distinction between those who plot, calculate, beat, assault, pin down, tie up, and god knows what else in order to force sex and those who sleep with someone, only to have that someone wake up in the morning and regret it.
No, there shouldn't. It's the same crime and the victim will suffer just the same. If anything, charges of physical/sexual abuse or assault should be added to 'forceful' rape instead of reducing the sentences of date rapists. He should absolutely share the same term as all the violent rapists because he a rapist. It really is that simple.
Why did the woman go to the hotel room in the first place? For a chat and a cup of tea?
We don't know. We don't know (at least I don't) where she lived, whether she had any money on her, whether it was too late/too far to get a bus home, whether the room had twin beds or whether she'd run out of little bottles of shampoo. Why she went to the Hotel is entirely irrelevant. I don't know what concerns she raised with the police - was it that her drinks might have been spiked as suggested earlier? It may well have been ONLY as a result of police enquiries that the rape charges were brought following the individuals admissions in interview and viewing the footage from the CCTV and 'phone. It is quite likely that she would not have had the legal expertise to conclude that she had been raped (as legally defined), suffered attempted rape and/or sexual assault but merely told her story and let the professionals decide which charge(s) to bring. It is not fair to say she made rape accusations when we don't know what she told the police in her initial interview and subsequently in her witness statement.
Why did the woman go to the hotel room in the first place? For a chat and a cup of tea?
What she was or was not intending at that point is totally irrelevant as she could not have known that Evans would have turned up later - he had not been there at any point earlier so she had no way of knowing what he would do. That is why Mcdonald has not received the same sentence despite it being him that she was with - an unscrupulous enough lawyer could probably get her leaving with him as implied consent, or close enough to create reasonable doubt in terms of outright rape.
Evans on the other hand turned up at a later point, either at Mcdonald's suggestion or his own initiative but certainly not at the victim's.
Comments
With the above, that's like saying someone who deliberately poisoned someone, or gave them a lethal injection, shouldnt be called a murderer because they didn't cave the persons head in with a brick.
If you go out and chat up a girl that's had a few drinks, and then have sex with her (which she was happy with at the time), if it is considered that she was too drunk to give consent, then legally that is rape.
A crime but clearly less severe than the predator attacking a woman and forcing himself against her will, and the sentencing will reflect this
I agree that there are varying degrees of severity in the eyes of the law and sentences reflect that. However, if you're the victim of rape you probably don't see it that way.
coment.
Grief if that is best you can do with a considered comment I shudder at the thought of an off the cuff remark! Have you any ideas what a truly dispicable crime rape is? Of course remorse is relevant.
I wouldn't be too proud of your opinion I were you. Acting as an apologist for rapists.
I am not misreading anything. you comments are very succinct and clear. Totally unambiguous.
But I'll tell you this for free, I hope he finds a job in football because he's not got a future in public speaking.
He has been been found guilty of Rape by all members of a jury and had his appeal rejected out of hand.
The only reason we are even having this debate is because he is trying to manipulate public opinion to allow the more morally bankrupt elements of our beautiful game (hear represented by Sheffield United) to make money with a rapist.
Some of you are unwittingly cheerleading this. Why?
It may well have been ONLY as a result of police enquiries that the rape charges were brought following the individuals admissions in interview and viewing the footage from the CCTV and 'phone. It is quite likely that she would not have had the legal expertise to conclude that she had been raped (as legally defined), suffered attempted rape and/or sexual assault but merely told her story and let the professionals decide which charge(s) to bring. It is not fair to say she made rape accusations when we don't know what she told the police in her initial interview and subsequently in her witness statement.
Evans on the other hand turned up at a later point, either at Mcdonald's suggestion or his own initiative but certainly not at the victim's.