First, the role model excuse. Come on. How many footballers can be considered role models? If kids do look at all footballers as role models then parents need to take a look at themselves. There are far more people we should be pointing out are better human beings.
Sorry but that is a load of rubbish.
As a football mad 7-14 year old I looked up at players like Rufus and Kinsella when I was younger. I loved the fact Rufus was a local guy and Kinsella was just Kins. They weren't world beaters but i certainly looked upto them as they worked hard against everyone and my dad was chuffed I did rather than a 'bigger' named player. If a child can relate to what their idol does then of course they will become a role model. I'd imagine alot of charlton kids look at our current captain JJ and think he is amazing and I don't think too many parents would 'take a look at themselves' if that was the case.
I coach kids and most obviously love Ronaldo, they like him because he is the best, but they know from what they read that he trains extra hard, moreso than a majority of footballers. Some of the stuff they come out with like he doesn't have tattoos so he can give blood is fantastic to hear.
Also another point,as others have said, the club represents the community, so should the players. Most clubs will visit a local hospice or hospital around Christmas to show the good . I would certainly say they are role models.
I think you've misjudged the point I was trying to make. I'm not saying footballers can't be role models. They can, of course they can. What I was alluding to was that just because they are footballers it doesn't automatically make them role models. A point the media and most of the public seem to forget. For example, should Rooney be considered a role model? Excellent footballer, captain of his club and country, trains hard etc. Yet he has cheated on his wife, has a filthy mouth, tried to engineer a transfer just to get a pay rise and goes round kicking opponents.
As in other professional jobs (teachers etc), he should not be allowed to go back into that profession. The poor girl went back with another lad (Clayton Donaldson I believe) and then Ched Evans helped himself once she was passed out, with a mate watching on and laughing. That is not her being too drunk, that is a dirty bastard who thinks he's above the law because he's a footballer.
First, the role model excuse. Come on. How many footballers can be considered role models? If kids do look at all footballers as role models then parents need to take a look at themselves. There are far more people we should be pointing out are better human beings.
Sorry but that is a load of rubbish.
As a football mad 7-14 year old I looked up at players like Rufus and Kinsella when I was younger. I loved the fact Rufus was a local guy and Kinsella was just Kins. They weren't world beaters but i certainly looked upto them as they worked hard against everyone and my dad was chuffed I did rather than a 'bigger' named player. If a child can relate to what their idol does then of course they will become a role model. I'd imagine alot of charlton kids look at our current captain JJ and think he is amazing and I don't think too many parents would 'take a look at themselves' if that was the case.
I coach kids and most obviously love Ronaldo, they like him because he is the best, but they know from what they read that he trains extra hard, moreso than a majority of footballers. Some of the stuff they come out with like he doesn't have tattoos so he can give blood is fantastic to hear.
Also another point,as others have said, the club represents the community, so should the players. Most clubs will visit a local hospice or hospital around Christmas to show the good . I would certainly say they are role models.
I think you've misjudged the point I was trying to make. I'm not saying footballers can't be role models. They can, of course they can. What I was alluding to was that just because they are footballers it doesn't automatically make them role models. A point the media and most of the public seem to forget. For example, should Rooney be considered a role model? Excellent footballer, captain of his club and country, trains hard etc. Yet he has cheated on his wife, has a filthy mouth, tried to engineer a transfer just to get a pay rise and goes round kicking opponents.
Of course 'To be a role model' is not written in a players contract, totally agree.
But they should know that their profession puts them in the public eye whereby young children watch them.
Regarding Rooney, as much as he may swear and kick other players (like alot of footballers) i'm pretty sure kids prefer him more for his goalscoring as goals are exciting and get coverage, therefore kids like him.
Rooney has caused controversy, like you say regarding pushing a new contract. But that is not illegal and United could have told him to sod off, but that is another topic.
Evans has raped someone, that is breaking the law. When the case was going on he was scoring for fun, how many kids do you think looked upto him? How many of them now have been let down and don't know what to think?
Point is, you don't ask to be a role model, that is not your choice. But you should know when it does happen, to behave in a way of decency.
What I think Ched should do, even though he may have the conviction overturned and whether he gets back into fotball or not, is to talk to the young lads in football academys by telling them how careful they should be on a night out and not get into any precarious because it could bite them on the bum as it did with him. Whatever way you look at it, even if it turns out to be a terible miscarriadge of justice it still bit him on the bum because he was still charged, still convicted (rightly or wrongly) and still went to prison. He should tell youngsters... "Don't make the same mistakes I made!"
What I think Ched should do, even though he may have the conviction overturned and whether he gets back into fotball or not, is to talk to the young lads in football academys by telling them how careful they should be on a night out and not get into any precarious because it could bite them on the bum as it did with him. Whatever way you look at it, even if it turns out to be a terible miscarriadge of justice it still bit him on the bum because he was still charged, still convicted (rightly or wrongly) and still went to prison. He should tell youngsters... "Don't make the same mistakes I made!"
First, the role model excuse. Come on. How many footballers can be considered role models? If kids do look at all footballers as role models then parents need to take a look at themselves. There are far more people we should be pointing out are better human beings.
Sorry but that is a load of rubbish.
As a football mad 7-14 year old I looked up at players like Rufus and Kinsella when I was younger. I loved the fact Rufus was a local guy and Kinsella was just Kins. They weren't world beaters but i certainly looked upto them as they worked hard against everyone and my dad was chuffed I did rather than a 'bigger' named player. If a child can relate to what their idol does then of course they will become a role model. I'd imagine alot of charlton kids look at our current captain JJ and think he is amazing and I don't think too many parents would 'take a look at themselves' if that was the case.
I coach kids and most obviously love Ronaldo, they like him because he is the best, but they know from what they read that he trains extra hard, moreso than a majority of footballers. Some of the stuff they come out with like he doesn't have tattoos so he can give blood is fantastic to hear.
Also another point,as others have said, the club represents the community, so should the players. Most clubs will visit a local hospice or hospital around Christmas to show the good . I would certainly say they are role models.
I think you've misjudged the point I was trying to make. I'm not saying footballers can't be role models. They can, of course they can. What I was alluding to was that just because they are footballers it doesn't automatically make them role models. A point the media and most of the public seem to forget. For example, should Rooney be considered a role model? Excellent footballer, captain of his club and country, trains hard etc. Yet he has cheated on his wife, has a filthy mouth, tried to engineer a transfer just to get a pay rise and goes round kicking opponents.
Of course 'To be a role model' is not written in a players contract, totally agree.
But they should know that their profession puts them in the public eye whereby young children watch them.
Regarding Rooney, as much as he may swear and kick other players (like alot of footballers) i'm pretty sure kids prefer him more for his goalscoring as goals are exciting and get coverage, therefore kids like him.
Rooney has caused controversy, like you say regarding pushing a new contract. But that is not illegal and United could have told him to sod off, but that is another topic.
Evans has raped someone, that is breaking the law. When the case was going on he was scoring for fun, how many kids do you think looked upto him? How many of them now have been let down and don't know what to think?
Point is, you don't ask to be a role model, that is not your choice. But you should know when it does happen, to behave in a way of decency.
Yeah fair point about it not being their choice. And of course I wasn't saying that what Rooney has done in his career in any way near as bad as Evans just that he's hardly role model material either. I'd be willing to bet that there are relatively very few footballers we could come up with that we would consider role models yet because they are good at playing football they have this tag attached to them.
Ched evans is filth scum and all supporters of him are filth nonce supporting scum
Who if their daughters were raped would be screaming blue murder for releasing the hounds and killing the scum bag
Yet because they like to court controversy and the outcome hasn't effected them they are willing to support a nonce rapist scum bag
He shouldn't have the right to still draw breath let alone the right to intrigate back in to society
Footballer or not
I don't know why but your posts always come across as the rantings of a mad man but I nearly always agree with them entirely and it's no different this time.
First, the role model excuse. Come on. How many footballers can be considered role models? If kids do look at all footballers as role models then parents need to take a look at themselves. There are far more people we should be pointing out are better human beings.
Sorry but that is a load of rubbish.
As a football mad 7-14 year old I looked up at players like Rufus and Kinsella when I was younger. I loved the fact Rufus was a local guy and Kinsella was just Kins. They weren't world beaters but i certainly looked upto them as they worked hard against everyone and my dad was chuffed I did rather than a 'bigger' named player. If a child can relate to what their idol does then of course they will become a role model. I'd imagine alot of charlton kids look at our current captain JJ and think he is amazing and I don't think too many parents would 'take a look at themselves' if that was the case.
I coach kids and most obviously love Ronaldo, they like him because he is the best, but they know from what they read that he trains extra hard, moreso than a majority of footballers. Some of the stuff they come out with like he doesn't have tattoos so he can give blood is fantastic to hear.
Also another point,as others have said, the club represents the community, so should the players. Most clubs will visit a local hospice or hospital around Christmas to show the good . I would certainly say they are role models.
I think you've misjudged the point I was trying to make. I'm not saying footballers can't be role models. They can, of course they can. What I was alluding to was that just because they are footballers it doesn't automatically make them role models. A point the media and most of the public seem to forget. For example, should Rooney be considered a role model? Excellent footballer, captain of his club and country, trains hard etc. Yet he has cheated on his wife, has a filthy mouth, tried to engineer a transfer just to get a pay rise and goes round kicking opponents.
Of course 'To be a role model' is not written in a players contract, totally agree.
But they should know that their profession puts them in the public eye whereby young children watch them.
Regarding Rooney, as much as he may swear and kick other players (like alot of footballers) i'm pretty sure kids prefer him more for his goalscoring as goals are exciting and get coverage, therefore kids like him.
Rooney has caused controversy, like you say regarding pushing a new contract. But that is not illegal and United could have told him to sod off, but that is another topic.
Evans has raped someone, that is breaking the law. When the case was going on he was scoring for fun, how many kids do you think looked upto him? How many of them now have been let down and don't know what to think?
Point is, you don't ask to be a role model, that is not your choice. But you should know when it does happen, to behave in a way of decency.
Yeah fair point about it not being their choice. And of course I wasn't saying that what Rooney has done in his career in any way near as bad as Evans just that he's hardly role model material either. I'd be willing to bet that there are relatively very few footballers we could come up with that we would consider role models yet because they are good at playing football they have this tag attached to them.
I think if you look abroad there are more as the media aren't as intrusive.
No doubt you have characters e.g.Balotelli but I think most know kids watch them.
I don't think Rooney is much of a role model either, he doesn't give the impression he likes it. But, where he was young and stupid (like we all have been) he has tried to settle down in his private life.
Look at Wilshire and the fuss caused over him smoking, he came out and said "I realise the consequences it has and the effect it has on kids growing up. Ive got kids myself, and I don't want them to grow up tjinking that their dad smokes and its ok for footballers to smoke, because its not". Whether they like it or not, they set a standard which people will see or hear about.
Because large you were bought up with the correct morale compass and therefore know that the only place vermin like Ched evans should be is either In a dark dingy tower chained ro the wall with only condensation for drink and kept barely alive for decades
How would the wording of the legislation that excludes anyone who is a "role model" returning to their former work after serving their sentence for certain, unspecified crimes be worded ? It seems way too broad and subjective to actually be legally plausible.
So what is a role model and who conforms to your specifications colt?
Really? You want to actually ask me a sensible question or are you going to continue being sarky?
A sensible answer will suffice ;-)
Oh you're going down the sarky route then.
Do we have an ignore button on here?
Actually I wasn't being sarky. I had apologised to you and asked some questions which you have ignored. You do seem to have a habit of dodging questions so I repeat, what is your idea of a role model ?
What's your opinion of the Jordan Cousins case? I believe Jordan was innocent but is that because he is one of our own and was not famous enough at the time for the family of the girl to keep pursuing it as they knew it wouldn't be worth their while.
If Jordan had been judged as guilty, would we be saying the wrong decision had been made or would we say he was a young lad and made a horrific mistake? Or would we say he should never play again?
Your first point is quite simply atrocious. 'worth their while' - as if entering something so traumatic as a rape trial is purely for financial reward or fame?
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
How would the wording of the legislation that excludes anyone who is a "role model" returning to their former work after serving their sentence for certain, unspecified crimes be worded ? It seems way too broad and subjective to actually be legally plausible.
How many people wishing that Ched Evans never plays football again used to watch Mike Tyson fight in his heyday?
When you're good enough, you manage to find employment even if people don't like it. Evans' stats before he went away are good enough for a league one side to pick him up (Sheff Utd probably).
Can I just point out Dazzler that just because a complaint does not result in a prosecution it does not make it false, lack of evidence is more often than not the reason a huge number of other rape complaints do not go on to trial. The very nature of the offence means it is very often his word against hers.
What's your opinion of the Jordan Cousins case? I believe Jordan was innocent but is that because he is one of our own and was not famous enough at the time for the family of the girl to keep pursuing it as they knew it wouldn't be worth their while.
If Jordan had been judged as guilty, would we be saying the wrong decision had been made or would we say he was a young lad and made a horrific mistake? Or would we say he should never play again?
Your first point is quite simply atrocious. 'worth their while' - as if entering something so traumatic as a rape trial is purely for financial reward or fame?
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
But would I believe he were guilty had been judged to be, as he was one of our own.
I think you will find cases have been thrown out against footballers in the past for the 'victim' only actually being interested in "financial reward or fame"
Absolutely what difference does it make if he's 'one of our own'?
Can I just point out Dazzler that just because a complaint does not result in a prosecution it does not make it false, lack of evidence is more often than not the reason these an a huge number of other rape complaints do not go on to trial. The very nature of the offence means it is very often his word against hers.
Fair points, taken on board. Just so long as people understand a complaint is no guarantee of guilt.
How would the wording of the legislation that excludes anyone who is a "role model" returning to their former work after serving their sentence for certain, unspecified crimes be worded ? It seems way too broad and subjective to actually be legally plausible.
Who is suggesting that?
There are numerous posts suggesting that since Evans is a potential role model to youngsters he shouldn't be alowed to play football again. I just don't see how that is feasible given the very subjective nature of who qualifies as a role model.
We can't have two justice systems, one based on reason and law (which Evans has been convicted by) and a secondary system based on the media and public opinion from where these additional, random and inconsistent punishments are being proposed.
There was never any case for cousins? It was dropped and no charges ever filed. If he had been found guilty the of course he should have been released and kept as far from the club as possible.
Just because Lee Hughes etc were allowed to return doesn't mean Evans should. It was wrong to let Hughes back in, we have a chance to show a new way forward and that people who commit these crimes are no longer welcome in the game.
If we keep making the same mistakes and not learning from them what is the point?
Football isn't the law, but it can be used as an example. We can make a stand and say this sort of behaviour isn't welcome in civilised society and therefore people who commit these crimes are no longer welcome in the game. This doesn't become about "has he served his time" it's about "this behaviour is wrong. We won't stand for it. If you commit the crime you are no longer welcome".
Comments
Who if their daughters were raped would be screaming blue murder for releasing the hounds and killing the scum bag
Yet because they like to court controversy and the outcome hasn't effected them they are willing to support a nonce rapist scum bag
He shouldn't have the right to still draw breath let alone the right to intrigate back in to society
Footballer or not
Do we have an ignore button on here?
But they should know that their profession puts them in the public eye whereby young children watch them.
Regarding Rooney, as much as he may swear and kick other players (like alot of footballers) i'm pretty sure kids prefer him more for his goalscoring as goals are exciting and get coverage, therefore kids like him.
Rooney has caused controversy, like you say regarding pushing a new contract. But that is not illegal and United could have told him to sod off, but that is another topic.
Evans has raped someone, that is breaking the law. When the case was going on he was scoring for fun, how many kids do you think looked upto him? How many of them now have been let down and don't know what to think?
Point is, you don't ask to be a role model, that is not your choice. But you should know when it does happen, to behave in a way of decency.
No doubt you have characters e.g.Balotelli but I think most know kids watch them.
I don't think Rooney is much of a role model either, he doesn't give the impression he likes it. But, where he was young and stupid (like we all have been) he has tried to settle down in his private life.
Look at Wilshire and the fuss caused over him smoking, he came out and said "I realise the consequences it has and the effect it has on kids growing up. Ive got kids myself, and I don't want them to grow up tjinking that their dad smokes and its ok for footballers to smoke, because its not". Whether they like it or not, they set a standard which people will see or hear about.
Or dead
Your second point - if he was found guilty then I'm sure virtually everyone in this thread would want him nowhere near the club. What about you?
Not really a question is it
It's why we have courts and judges
When you're good enough, you manage to find employment even if people don't like it. Evans' stats before he went away are good enough for a league one side to pick him up (Sheff Utd probably).
Just so long as people understand a complaint is no guarantee of guilt.
We can't have two justice systems, one based on reason and law (which Evans has been convicted by) and a secondary system based on the media and public opinion from where these additional, random and inconsistent punishments are being proposed.
Just because Lee Hughes etc were allowed to return doesn't mean Evans should. It was wrong to let Hughes back in, we have a chance to show a new way forward and that people who commit these crimes are no longer welcome in the game.
If we keep making the same mistakes and not learning from them what is the point?
Football isn't the law, but it can be used as an example. We can make a stand and say this sort of behaviour isn't welcome in civilised society and therefore people who commit these crimes are no longer welcome in the game. This doesn't become about "has he served his time" it's about "this behaviour is wrong. We won't stand for it. If you commit the crime you are no longer welcome".