Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Germany ready to accept UK's exit from EU

2456719

Comments

  • cafcfan said:

    LenGlover said:

    It's all bluff they want our money at the end of the day.


    So some would have you believe.

    But the UK's net contribution - around £8bn - is tiny. In context: around 15% of the NHS budget; £3bn less than the rest of the UK's contribution to Northern Ireland; and only around half of Germany's EU contribution. Meanwhile Germany would see paying its share of our £8bn as a very, very cheap price to pay for converting Frankfurt into the financial services sector's EU powerhouse rather than London. London turns over nearly $2 trillion A DAY with more Euros traded than in all other EU countries combined. London earns 16 times the net EU contribution a year. With much of that income from the rest of the EU. Germany would just love some of those wealth creating one million financial services sector jobs to come its way. And that's what would happen.
    why would it move from London to Frankfurt please?
  • Is there any reliable data on the number of EU immigrants to the UK who claim benefits (without working) ?
  • se9addick said:

    Is there any reliable data on the number of EU immigrants to the UK who claim benefits (without working) ?

    Hello

    I have not checked these for myself so please do not qoute as gospel but according to James Obrien on LBC today figures have been released today that 3 % of EU migrants coming to the UK claim Out of work benefits. Immigration is a personal intererst of mine so will be trying to to find his source material when I get the chance.
  • A lot of American/ Japanese companies said they would pull out of the UK if we did not join the Euro, but are still here.
  • cafcfan said:

    LenGlover said:

    It's all bluff they want our money at the end of the day.


    So some would have you believe.

    But the UK's net contribution - around £8bn - is tiny. In context: around 15% of the NHS budget; £3bn less than the rest of the UK's contribution to Northern Ireland; and only around half of Germany's EU contribution. Meanwhile Germany would see paying its share of our £8bn as a very, very cheap price to pay for converting Frankfurt into the financial services sector's EU powerhouse rather than London. London turns over nearly $2 trillion A DAY with more Euros traded than in all other EU countries combined. London earns 16 times the net EU contribution a year. With much of that income from the rest of the EU. Germany would just love some of those wealth creating one million financial services sector jobs to come its way. And that's what would happen.
    We heard exactly the same argument when the Euro was created - if we didn't join then London would lose it's financial predominance to Frankfurt. In fact, London has grown relatively stronger.

    Can't see any reason why leaving the EU would change matters (I'm in favour of staying in the EU, but made up scare stories don't help the cause)

  • Addickted said:

    cafcfan said:

    Fiiish said:

    There's also the matter that the EU's 'accountants' (i.e. Germany) has magicked a bill for £1.6bn out of thin air that they want the UK to pay, clearly timed to punish the UK for her continuing insubordinance. The justification for staying in this nasty little club of squalid republics is shrinking every day.

    This is utter and complete rubbish. Where do you get this stuff?

    For the sake of clarity:
    The four largest net contributors in per capita terms are Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy.
    The four largest net contributors as a proportion of GDP are Denmark, Italy, Germany, Finland.

    You'll notice that the UK does not feature - it probably should, as should France.
    This is utter and complete rubbish. Where do you get this stuff?

    For the sake of clarity:
    image

    The four largest net contributors as a proportion of GDP are Czech Republic @ 1.01%; Portugal @ 0.97%; Malta @ 0.97% & Spain @ 0.94%
    It depends upon which year and method of calculation but as far as I am aware, Czech Republic, Portugal, Malta and Spain all have greater spending by the EU in their countries than they pay by way of contributions. This makes them net recipients of cash not net contributors. Where did you get your figures from?

    Isn't the table you provided giving gross contributions?
  • Selfish question: what would happen to Brits living in the EU if the UK pulled out of it?
  • edited November 2014
    cafcfan said:

    Addickted said:

    cafcfan said:

    Fiiish said:

    There's also the matter that the EU's 'accountants' (i.e. Germany) has magicked a bill for £1.6bn out of thin air that they want the UK to pay, clearly timed to punish the UK for her continuing insubordinance. The justification for staying in this nasty little club of squalid republics is shrinking every day.

    This is utter and complete rubbish. Where do you get this stuff?

    For the sake of clarity:
    The four largest net contributors in per capita terms are Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy.
    The four largest net contributors as a proportion of GDP are Denmark, Italy, Germany, Finland.

    You'll notice that the UK does not feature - it probably should, as should France.
    This is utter and complete rubbish. Where do you get this stuff?

    For the sake of clarity:
    image

    The four largest net contributors as a proportion of GDP are Czech Republic @ 1.01%; Portugal @ 0.97%; Malta @ 0.97% & Spain @ 0.94%
    It depends upon which year and method of calculation but as far as I am aware, Czech Republic, Portugal, Malta and Spain all have greater spending by the EU in their Taverna-olympos.eu than they pay by way of contributions. This makes them net recipients of cash not net contributors. Where did you get your figures from?

    Isn't the table you provided giving gross contributions?
    Correct, in the Czech case. Although the clowns are useless at actually tapping the funds, worst in the whole EU. There are plenty of eurosceptic politicians here, but I've never heard them quote such a stat. They usually bang on about "sovereignty" by which they mean being free to nick taxpayers money without some meddling European Commission official asking them what they are playing at.
  • Jints said:

    cafcfan said:

    LenGlover said:

    It's all bluff they want our money at the end of the day.


    So some would have you believe.

    But the UK's net contribution - around £8bn - is tiny. In context: around 15% of the NHS budget; £3bn less than the rest of the UK's contribution to Northern Ireland; and only around half of Germany's EU contribution. Meanwhile Germany would see paying its share of our £8bn as a very, very cheap price to pay for converting Frankfurt into the financial services sector's EU powerhouse rather than London. London turns over nearly $2 trillion A DAY with more Euros traded than in all other EU countries combined. London earns 16 times the net EU contribution a year. With much of that income from the rest of the EU. Germany would just love some of those wealth creating one million financial services sector jobs to come its way. And that's what would happen.
    We heard exactly the same argument when the Euro was created - if we didn't join then London would lose it's financial predominance to Frankfurt. In fact, London has grown relatively stronger.

    Can't see any reason why leaving the EU would change matters (I'm in favour of staying in the EU, but made up scare stories don't help the cause)

    R

    Frankfurt is a major financial centre. Do you really think that Germany, France and the other EU members would continue to push its finances through a non member state in London should the UK leave the EU.

  • Sponsored links:


  • Fiiish said:

    Immigration is a complete red herring used to generate votes. A bigger labour market can only be better for the economy and it is a fact that immigrants tend to be net contributors in the tax/benefits games i.e. benefit tourism is completely nullified by the huge economic contributions hardworking migrants make.

    I do not think so as a good percentage of immigrants earn at or below the £10k mark which is the point where people start paying tax. So they're not paying any tax and benefitting from benefits such as housing in lieu of their low earnings, their kids go to school and health services are free and all these adds up to a deficit.
    Every study I've seen on this subject puts the cost of benefit tourism as a trivial fraction of the amount of tax migrants to the UK pay. The strain migrants put on public services is a somewhat different matter that I addressed in my post i.e. that the Treasury are both failing to capitalise on the economic benefits of immigration and aren't spending revenues earned from migrants on improving and expanding public services. My one concern is that the wider ecological and social effects of massive population increases will be a far higher cost than benefit tourism.
    cafcfan said:

    Fiiish said:

    There's also the matter that the EU's 'accountants' (i.e. Germany) has magicked a bill for £1.6bn out of thin air that they want the UK to pay, clearly timed to punish the UK for her continuing insubordinance. The justification for staying in this nasty little club of squalid republics is shrinking every day.

    This is utter and complete rubbish. Where do you get this stuff?

    What actually happens, as announced by the EU on 27th October:
    EU budget Commissioner Jacek Dominik will make a statement on the annual mechanical adjustment of member states’ gross national income (GNI) contribution to the EU budget, based on data provided by member states.
    So, we have our own data being used to fine-tune the EU budget. As it is each and every year. The "pot" is then divided up according to how each nation's GNI has been calculated. It so happens that the UK has been doing rather well, so its contribution has increased marginally. Why politicians should get in a tizzy about that is beyond me.

    For the sake of clarity:
    The four largest net contributors in per capita terms are Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy.
    The four largest net contributors as a proportion of GDP are Denmark, Italy, Germany, Finland.

    You'll notice that the UK does not feature - it probably should, as should France.
    Yes, the data is provided by member states but then some creative accounting happens behind the scenes by the EU's accountants and hey presto, Germany is getting a rebate and the UK is getting a bill for more money.

    Considering the fact that external accountants consistently refuse to sign off the EU's accounts, we shouldn't take their numbers at face value. If they want an extra £2bn, I'm sure they'll find it if they ask a few of the bureaucrats to turn out their pockets.
  • dosnt seem to effect Wall Street or Singapore money goes World wide and has feek all to do with who is in the EU or not.

    as for only contributing 15% of the dosh in the pot------who the f--k is going to make up the difference ? Italy ? Spain? ROI ? Turkey ? maybe Germany ? yes i mean after all their propping up the Euro zone so why not cover another 15 % net contribution ??

    they dont want or need our 15% so why are they so hot on the trail of £1.7 billion SURCHARGE for being more successful than we should be ? lets just fail completely and let the other countries bail us out----------------oooooooooooo f--k we cant they already beat us to it.

    bollox to all this lets have the vote---in or out----and make it final. On one side Tory/Labour/LibTwats ---and the majority of big busines. The other side UKIP should be a total walk over-------------get a set of gonads and lets vote.
  • Jints said:

    cafcfan said:

    LenGlover said:

    It's all bluff they want our money at the end of the day.


    So some would have you believe.

    But the UK's net contribution - around £8bn - is tiny. In context: around 15% of the NHS budget; £3bn less than the rest of the UK's contribution to Northern Ireland; and only around half of Germany's EU contribution. Meanwhile Germany would see paying its share of our £8bn as a very, very cheap price to pay for converting Frankfurt into the financial services sector's EU powerhouse rather than London. London turns over nearly $2 trillion A DAY with more Euros traded than in all other EU countries combined. London earns 16 times the net EU contribution a year. With much of that income from the rest of the EU. Germany would just love some of those wealth creating one million financial services sector jobs to come its way. And that's what would happen.
    We heard exactly the same argument when the Euro was created - if we didn't join then London would lose it's financial predominance to Frankfurt. In fact, London has grown relatively stronger.

    Can't see any reason why leaving the EU would change matters (I'm in favour of staying in the EU, but made up scare stories don't help the cause)

    Frankfurt is the largest financial centre in continental Europe. It is home to the European Central Bank.
    My guess, and it is only that, is that the German Govt. in particular, would work very hard indeed to persuade the huge German banks that operate their investment arms out of London that it would be in their best interests to come home. If they left, it would be less obvious why other countries' banks would want to stay.

    Isn't the EBRD part EU-owned and would presumably therefore have to leave and maybe join the EIB in Luxembourg?

    There are plenty of examples through history of how British arrogance and complacency cost it a world-leading role in various sectors: football (ha ha), cars (now back to an extent but only through foreign ownership) trucks, buses, motorbikes, shipping and shipbuilding, electrical goods, the list is almost endless. I'm still waiting for some coherent reason as to why we'd want to take any steps at all that might put at risk our world-leading position in the financial services sector. Setting aside banking, the London insurance market's position might be at risk if EU-based businesses felt that EU legislation meant it would not be prudent to take up insurance outside the EU market. I don't know, nobody really does. But why take the risk on the back of some half-baked notion that being in the EU club costs us around the same as a TV licence or we get too many immigrants - particularly when half of net migration is from outside the EU anyway and would presumably continue unabated? (According to the ONS, of the 560,000 migrants to the UK in the year ending March 2014, 14% were Brits returning home; 38% were from other EU countries and 47% from elsewhere.)
    The major reason for coming to the UK was work-related, that is they are people who had a job ready and waiting (like Katrien Meire) and the second reason was to study.


  • Frankfurt is the largest financial centre in continental Europe. It is home to the European Central Bank.
    My guess, and it is only that, is that the German Govt. in particular, would work very hard indeed to persuade the huge German banks that operate their investment arms out of London that it would be in their best interests to come home. If they left, it would be less obvious why other countries' banks would want to stay.



    I believe it is extremely unlikely that Deutsche Bank would move their investment bank headquarters to Frankfurt from London
  • The Centre for Europrean Reform published a paper a while ago on the consequences for the City of a Brexit. The ocnclusion was IIRC that they woudl not be serious provided the UK retained the EU's banking and financial regulations.

    The same could be said for much of the rest of the UK economy. We can leave without very significant consequences to the economy but only if we keep in place the EU's rules. We gain little in terms of sovereignty (except in a few, admittedly key areas like immigration) but lose all influence over the formulation of those regulations.

    The Eurosceptic claim that we can have the best of both world - we can make our own rules up without suffering a loss of trade - is ludicrous.

    The Europhile claim that our economy will implode on a Brexit is overblown. It will suffer in some ways and agin in others (IMO it will suffer much more, especially in the short term) but provided we retain the EU's rules it will not be a disaster.

    Sadlly the true picture is complex and nuanced so the swarms of Bulgarians/economic calamity argumenst will be the ones heard.
  • edited November 2014
    The idea that we would be seriously punished for leaving the EU ignores the Realpolitik of the Eastern European border. Several countries would have major misgivings about pissing off one of the only countries that could threaten Russia if America decides it's interests are no longer served by guaranteeing European security. Would you feel safe knowing that the only thing detering Putin from invading your country was a French nuclear umbrella?
  • dosnt seem to effect Wall Street or Singapore money goes World wide and has feek all to do with who is in the EU or not.

    as for only contributing 15% of the dosh in the pot------who the f--k is going to make up the difference ? Italy ? Spain? ROI ? Turkey ? maybe Germany ? yes i mean after all their propping up the Euro zone so why not cover another 15 % net contribution ??

    they dont want or need our 15% so why are they so hot on the trail of £1.7 billion SURCHARGE for being more successful than we should be ? lets just fail completely and let the other countries bail us out----------------oooooooooooo f--k we cant they already beat us to it.

    bollox to all this lets have the vote---in or out----and make it final. On one side Tory/Labour/LibTwats ---and the majority of big busines. The other side UKIP should be a total walk over-------------get a set of gonads and lets vote.

    Words fail me!


  • edited November 2014
    IAgree said:

    dosnt seem to effect Wall Street or Singapore money goes World wide and has feek all to do with who is in the EU or not.

    as for only contributing 15% of the dosh in the pot------who the f--k is going to make up the difference ? Italy ? Spain? ROI ? Turkey ? maybe Germany ? yes i mean after all their propping up the Euro zone so why not cover another 15 % net contribution ??

    they dont want or need our 15% so why are they so hot on the trail of £1.7 billion SURCHARGE for being more successful than we should be ? lets just fail completely and let the other countries bail us out----------------oooooooooooo f--k we cant they already beat us to it.

    bollox to all this lets have the vote---in or out----and make it final. On one side Tory/Labour/LibTwats ---and the majority of big busines. The other side UKIP should be a total walk over-------------get a set of gonads and lets vote.

    Words fail me!


    Thank fuck for that!
  • OOps sorry!!!!

    ;0)
  • Sponsored links:


  • OOps sorry!!!!

    ;0)

    Thanks for that.
  • IAgree said:

    dosnt seem to effect Wall Street or Singapore money goes World wide and has feek all to do with who is in the EU or not.

    as for only contributing 15% of the dosh in the pot------who the f--k is going to make up the difference ? Italy ? Spain? ROI ? Turkey ? maybe Germany ? yes i mean after all their propping up the Euro zone so why not cover another 15 % net contribution ??

    they dont want or need our 15% so why are they so hot on the trail of £1.7 billion SURCHARGE for being more successful than we should be ? lets just fail completely and let the other countries bail us out----------------oooooooooooo f--k we cant they already beat us to it.

    bollox to all this lets have the vote---in or out----and make it final. On one side Tory/Labour/LibTwats ---and the majority of big busines. The other side UKIP should be a total walk over-------------get a set of gonads and lets vote.

    Words fail me!


    Thank fuck for that!
    Plenty more posts to come!
  • dosnt seem to effect Wall Street or Singapore money goes World wide and has feek all to do with who is in the EU or not.

    as for only contributing 15% of the dosh in the pot------who the f--k is going to make up the difference ? Italy ? Spain? ROI ? Turkey ? maybe Germany ? yes i mean after all their propping up the Euro zone so why not cover another 15 % net contribution ??

    they dont want or need our 15% so why are they so hot on the trail of £1.7 billion SURCHARGE for being more successful than we should be ? lets just fail completely and let the other countries bail us out----------------oooooooooooo f--k we cant they already beat us to it.

    bollox to all this lets have the vote---in or out----and make it final. On one side Tory/Labour/LibTwats ---and the majority of big busines. The other side UKIP should be a total walk over-------------get a set of gonads and lets vote.


    What has the European Union ever done for us?

    Nothing!

    Well, except for

    improving food safety measures
    introducing better air quality standards
    providing quality standards for drinking water
    introducing water quality standards for the sea
    providing support for small and medium sized businesses
    drastically improving passenger rights
    ensuring fairer trials across the whole EU and introducing the European Arrest Warrant so that criminals can be brought to justice faster
    taking a global lead on climate change
    securing our energy supplies
    protecting children through internet safety and toy safety
    coordinating help for international disasters
    promoting gender equality
    fighting trafficking, abuse and violence against women
    improving healthcare standards across Europe
    controlling hazardous chemicals
    improving consumer rights, especially online, with more transparency and improved return rights
    improving safety in the workplace
    improving employee representation in the workplace
    guaranteeing breaks and holiday times in the workplace
    strengthening deposit guarantee schemes so that our savings are protected up to EUR 100,000
    reducing telephone costs
    reducing mobile phone roaming charges
    recognising member states’ driving licences across the EU
    allowing us to live and work in any EU country
    guaranteeing us medical care in any EU country
    guaranteeing legal protection across the EU
    fighting organised crime
    organising migration from non-EU states
    deregulating air travel to provide more competition and lower prices
    introducing a common currency for over 300 million people, removing exchange charges
    guaranteeing freedom of religion
    promoting the development of regenerable energy
    enabling students to study abroad
    promoting the production of European films
    protecting the diversity of European languages
    promoting regional culture
    But apart from that? Nothing!

    Well, except for creating the longest period of peace and stability in Europe ever seen in the whole of history.
    Superb! Spot on!
  • still don't quite get why the Euro is so strong against the pound tho?
  • The idea that we would be seriously punished for leaving the EU ignores the Realpolitik of the Eastern European border. Several countries would have major misgivings about pissing off one of the only countries that could threaten Russia if America decides it's interests are no longer served by guaranteeing European security. Would you feel safe knowing that the only thing detering Putin from invading your country was a French nuclear umbrella?

    Yep. We can send out some gunboat diplomacy with our aircraft carrier for which we don't own any planes.

  • so have a vote on it ---its so fucking good give people the vote--- get some bollox between the lot of you--its only UKIP to beat

    + Freedom of Religious worship UN not EU 1948
    + Securing energy supply ---ho ho ho ho and this is the year we will have black out if its a tad cold
    +fighting organised crime --do fuck off ---free movement of scum bags across borders makes it + easier for the scum to do their shit
    + Promoting regional culture-------are u fecking insane !!!!! where is the ENGLISH culture in u pan European utopia ?
    + Common currency ho ho ho really are you saying thats a fecking success ? feck knows what it will be like when it goes wrong !!
    + The migration from none European countries is down to the EU ??? and your saying this is a success !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS really ?

    look its so fecking great being in the EU we will ALL die if we leave . The Torys will go with big business who love the EU--so do the Libs and Labour---its a cake walk of a vote. You only have the UKIPers to beat FFS should be a 98% yes vote. Make it simple FULLY In or FULLY OUT. No more arguments --no more"its the EUs fault(or not)"-----fully in or fully out. I cant see what your afraid of .




  • Take the opportunity to inform then. May only be a footy forum but every little helps.
  • so have a vote on it ---its so fucking good give people the vote--- get some bollox between the lot of you--its only UKIP to beat

    + Freedom of Religious worship UN not EU 1948
    + Securing energy supply ---ho ho ho ho and this is the year we will have black out if its a tad cold
    +fighting organised crime --do fuck off ---free movement of scum bags across borders makes it + easier for the scum to do their shit
    + Promoting regional culture-------are u fecking insane !!!!! where is the ENGLISH culture in u pan European utopia ?
    + Common currency ho ho ho really are you saying thats a fecking success ? feck knows what it will be like when it goes wrong !!
    + The migration from none European countries is down to the EU ??? and your saying this is a success !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS really ?

    look its so fecking great being in the EU we will ALL die if we leave . The Torys will go with big business who love the EU--so do the Libs and Labour---its a cake walk of a vote. You only have the UKIPers to beat FFS should be a 98% yes vote. Make it simple FULLY In or FULLY OUT. No more arguments --no more"its the EUs fault(or not)"-----fully in or fully out. I cant see what your afraid of .




    I'm afraid of ill informed voters

    read as: I'm afraid people will vote the way i don't want them to.
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!