The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
I visit Maidstone regularly and used to live there. Can't say that I have noticed this there at all - although there are other towns where in Kent where there is a more visible presence of EU migrants.
I moved to Maidstone two and a half years ago.
The amount of Eastern Europeans living and working in the town has visibly increased significantly - particularly in the last year. That's not a negative (except for the vast number of LHD cars with Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Bulgarian and Romanian plates) as they are obviously contributing a lot to the local economy.
Actually it's about time I tried some of their specialist Deli's that are opening up.
"white Anglo Saxon residents" so they wernt Celtic or Norman or Viking then ?
Rothco ---2007 2011 what about the years before---would this be when your beloved Labour party wasnt actually counting who was coming in ? or would all those years be when the left and Labour actually said mass immigration WASNT hapening
The tory press and big business gearing themselves up for the election battle with UKIP and the in/out referendum to follow. Expect to see a lot more of these stats from the right wing, pro Tory media. GH will try to pin it all on labour but the tories who survive the next election will be leading the pro-EU fight, not those nasty lefties.
It's all macro level though. It will be harder for them to address the micro level concerns about local services and schools, who lives in my street etc (which are, IMHO, quite legitimate concerns in most cases)
well how strange !!!!!!!!!!!!! snide comments re anyone who dosnt agree with the "moral majority" on CL ??????? surely not.
so AGAIN if ANYONE who dosnt agree that the EU is the saviour of the British people are deluded ,idiots who clearly dont UNDERSTAND anything---why not vote on it ? Other countries voted on Mastrict treaty(sic) we didnt---why if the only opposition is the deluded and the UKIPers put your vote where your mouth is ? a walk over to stay in and the end of UKIP.
well how strange !!!!!!!!!!!!! snide comments re anyone who dosnt agree with the "moral majority" on CL ??????? surely not.
so AGAIN if ANYONE who dosnt agree that the EU is the saviour of the British people are deluded ,idiots who clearly dont UNDERSTAND anything---why not vote on it ? Other countries voted on Mastrict treaty(sic) we didnt---why if the only opposition is the deluded and the UKIPers put your vote where your mouth is ? a walk over to stay in and the end of UKIP.
You are a very strange and sad man.
Id like to say that my comment was not meant in a snidey way but pointing out the fact that the part of the report you qouted has nothing to do with the EU. A departure from the EU will have very little impact on NON EU migration; the only VISA catogory that would be removed would be the EEA dependant permit, which I personally do believe is to easy to abuse, but ultimately accounts for next to nothing in terms of Non EU migration rights.
I have yet to make a decision on where my vote would go but do not believe that the EU is Englands saviour; I do beleieve however it has contrbuted a lot. Take yesterdays Employment Appeal Tribunal decision about Overtime being taking into account in relation to holiday pay. I know when I used to work in retail I was contracted for 24 hours but often undertook up to 50 hoursirs on a consistent basis. Because of a decion made in compliance with Eu Working time directive I would know be entitled to a fair rate of holiday pay.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
I've never been to Maidstone I have to admit. I can certainly believe that there are places which see rapid rises in certain groups because I suppose it's natural for immigrants to feel more secure with people around them from the same place. All the Scandi countries are currently talking about immigration issues, that much I know. However there are a few obvious differences to the UK in their debates. Firstly I think they are relaxed about immigrants generally, but expect them to adopt local cultures and norms more firmly. I suppose this is because Britain starts from a higher base of immigrants from the Commonwealth. Secondly the Danes seem to generally accept that their immigration issues are not driven by EU membership. They have people from many countries. It seems to me that their attitude is: we will help you build a decent life if you work hard, learn the language and accept our way of doing things. They've probably got studies which show similar results to the one released today in the UK
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
Do you see it as a bad thing that there are Eastern Europeans living in your street? This isn't a leading question or anything I'm just trying to gauge what your opinion is.
Bear with me as you all know I am a long winded bugger...
Just got a service done on my car, it's in good nick but a 2001 plate. Just around the corner from me, in not the most salubrious part of Chatham is a back street garage. Looked dodgy but I thought I would pop in for a quote. Walked up to who turned out to be the owner and he was absolutely astonished that I was English and to be honest I was pretty surprised he was to. He has lived there above those premises for 45 years. Anyway he did a good job and I now get my daughters to take there cars there for bits and bobs, it's good to have a reliable and reasonably cheap mechanic on tap I think we all agree. Chatting to him one day, two Polish gentlemen rocked up and asked to borrow some sort of convoluted spanner thingy, he told them in no small terms to feck off. After they slopped off he pointed to a house just up the road where their extended family live. He informed me that there were 4 adults and 6 children living in that house on benefits (No comment on that because I cannot verify the fact). He also pointed to the two flat bed transits parked outside with which these guys run their rubbish clearance, scrap metal and mobile mechanic business from (cash only). So, the reason he was so short with our Polish friends was the fact that they would have the brass neck to ask to borrow tools from his legitimate business to potentially take his trade off of him and he is pissed off.
This is just one "story" of what I would guess are many many "stories" happening all over this country and this is what gets into the perception and minds of your average British citizen. This situation is why, a party like UKIP has risen to a astonishing level of popularity in such a short space of time. In answer to your question, yes, I do see it as a bad thing that Eastern Europeans are living in my street and I am not alone. Does it make me a racist? I hope not. I do not know the answers like most people. We are just asking our elected representatives to give us an answer and let's face it they haven't got a first clue either.
Yeah and my footballing buddy lives in Lordwoods and has a very pleasant Polish family living downstairs who a vast improvement upon the three previous White Anglo Saxon English residents!
I could show you streets full of indigenous English residents who behave in the way you describe. I could show you Streets full who don't!
Good and bad in every country.
BTW I have worked in Medway for ten years and have never experienced a surprise reaction from meeting and English owner of a business.
Lucky you IAgree. I currently live in and work near Luton Road. It was just meant to be an example just like your effort of how peoples opinions are formed in this country.
I have yet to make a decision on where my vote would go but do not believe that the EU is Englands saviour; I do beleieve however it has contrbuted a lot. Take yesterdays Employment Appeal Tribunal decision about Overtime being taking into account in relation to holiday pay. I know when I used to work in retail I was contracted for 24 hours but often undertook up to 50 hoursirs on a consistent basis. Because of a decion made in compliance with Eu Working time directive I would know be entitled to a fair rate of holiday pay.
I dont have an issue with the holiday pay ruling, but the ruling on commissions is bananas. The company I work for pays a lot of commission on sales - now we'll have to pay notional commission to salesmen on holiday, even though they wont have sold anything, so we have no earnings with which to fund it. The logical conclusion is that we will simply reduce the overall commission rates to compensate. Our sales are largely seasonal, and our salesmen take their (exotic) holidays in the off-season, so wouldnt have sold anything much then anyway. Lots of hassle to nobody's benefit.
Surely it all depends it all what is classed as overtime, in my time in the construction industry you were paid a premium rate over your hourly rate (ie time and half or double time) if you worked in excess of your normal working hours which most workers did. I would have thought this premium rate would have included a portion a holiday pay. I can fully understand the ruling if you are not paid a premium rate to work extra hours. (Just an observation as this dicussion could go off thread)
< All the Scandi countries are currently talking about immigration issues, that much I know. However there are a few obvious differences to the UK in their debates. Firstly I think they are relaxed about immigrants generally, but expect them to adopt local cultures and norms more firmly. I suppose this is because Britain starts from a higher base of immigrants from the Commonwealth. Secondly the Danes seem to generally accept that their immigration issues are not driven by EU membership. They have people from many countries. It seems to me that their attitude is: we will help you build a decent life if you work hard, learn the language and accept our way of doing things. They've probably got studies which show similar results to the one released today in the UK
I think you're wrong. Danes are much more insular than Brits - maybe not in Copenhagen but certanly in Jutland.
The People's Party, which is significantly to the right of UKIP, gets 15%+ in elections and heavily influenced Denmarks' immigration policy which is described by the Danish Government as the strictist in Europe. For example, their laws on asylum seekers are as strict as are allowed under the Geneva Convention (much, much stricter than ours). There are huge restrictions on bringing foreign spouses into the country, particualrly for 2nd generation immigrants who have to prove that they have stronger links with Denmark than with their parents country (seriously, can you imagine the outcry if anyone tried to introduce that here).
I have yet to make a decision on where my vote would go but do not believe that the EU is Englands saviour; I do beleieve however it has contrbuted a lot. Take yesterdays Employment Appeal Tribunal decision about Overtime being taking into account in relation to holiday pay. I know when I used to work in retail I was contracted for 24 hours but often undertook up to 50 hoursirs on a consistent basis. Because of a decion made in compliance with Eu Working time directive I would know be entitled to a fair rate of holiday pay.
I dont have an issue with the holiday pay ruling, but the ruling on commissions is bananas. The company I work for pays a lot of commission on sales - now we'll have to pay notional commission to salesmen on holiday, even though they wont have sold anything, so we have no earnings with which to fund it. The logical conclusion is that we will simply reduce the overall commission rates to compensate. Our sales are largely seasonal, and our salesmen take their (exotic) holidays in the off-season, so wouldnt have sold anything much then anyway. Lots of hassle to nobody's benefit.
Exactly. Everytime the EU makes a ruling, if someone is benefitting, someone else is losing out. This isn't necessarily a case of workers/employees/small businesses winning and big businesses losing, it's actually often the other round. Our business has been hit by the unintended side-effects of an EU ruling in which big businesses will be able to avoid a lot of taxable charges but our company is having to spend millions to deal with the fallout of this ruling, whereas our smaller clients will not gain anything.
The fact is most EU politicians, like UK politicians, have never spent any time in the real world, they've always been full-time politicians riding the gravy train with no real qualifications or real world experience. How can they be expected to understand the knock-on effects in the dozens on member nations of their blanket rulings when they have no idea of the subject matter in the first place, nor understand what it is like to work in a world where you either make a profit or you go out of business, whereas when the EU runs out of money they just need to ambush the UK Prime Minister with some made-up numbers.
< All the Scandi countries are currently talking about immigration issues, that much I know. However there are a few obvious differences to the UK in their debates. Firstly I think they are relaxed about immigrants generally, but expect them to adopt local cultures and norms more firmly. I suppose this is because Britain starts from a higher base of immigrants from the Commonwealth. Secondly the Danes seem to generally accept that their immigration issues are not driven by EU membership. They have people from many countries. It seems to me that their attitude is: we will help you build a decent life if you work hard, learn the language and accept our way of doing things. They've probably got studies which show similar results to the one released today in the UK
I think you're wrong. Danes are much more insular than Brits - maybe not in Copenhagen but certanly in Jutland.
The People's Party, which is significantly to the right of UKIP, gets 15%+ in elections and heavily influenced Denmarks' immigration policy which is described by the Danish Government as the strictist in Europe. For example, their laws on asylum seekers are as strict as are allowed under the Geneva Convention (much, much stricter than ours). There are huge restrictions on bringing foreign spouses into the country, particualrly for 2nd generation immigrants who have to prove that they have stronger links with Denmark than with their parents country (seriously, can you imagine the outcry if anyone tried to introduce that here).
Fair enough, you are better informed than I am on the Danes attitudes. I would though point out that all those restrictions refer (as I understand it) to immigrants from outside the EU. Furthermore I wonder how you can describe the People's Party as "significantly to the right of UKIP". On the relevant Wikipedia page we are told that "after the (2014) election it joined the European Conservatives and Reformists Group alongside parties such as the Conservative Party of the United Kingdom, Law and Justice of Poland and the Alternative for Germany."
< All the Scandi countries are currently talking about immigration issues, that much I know. However there are a few obvious differences to the UK in their debates. Firstly I think they are relaxed about immigrants generally, but expect them to adopt local cultures and norms more firmly. I suppose this is because Britain starts from a higher base of immigrants from the Commonwealth. Secondly the Danes seem to generally accept that their immigration issues are not driven by EU membership. They have people from many countries. It seems to me that their attitude is: we will help you build a decent life if you work hard, learn the language and accept our way of doing things. They've probably got studies which show similar results to the one released today in the UK
I think you're wrong. Danes are much more insular than Brits - maybe not in Copenhagen but certanly in Jutland.
The People's Party, which is significantly to the right of UKIP, gets 15%+ in elections and heavily influenced Denmarks' immigration policy which is described by the Danish Government as the strictist in Europe. For example, their laws on asylum seekers are as strict as are allowed under the Geneva Convention (much, much stricter than ours). There are huge restrictions on bringing foreign spouses into the country, particualrly for 2nd generation immigrants who have to prove that they have stronger links with Denmark than with their parents country (seriously, can you imagine the outcry if anyone tried to introduce that here).
Fair enough, you are better informed than I am on the Danes attitudes. I would though point out that all those restrictions refer (as I understand it) to immigrants from outside the EU. Furthermore I wonder how you can describe the People's Party as "significantly to the right of UKIP". On the relevant Wikipedia page we are told that "after the (2014) election it joined the European Conservatives and Reformists Group alongside parties such as the Conservative Party of the United Kingdom, Law and Justice of Poland and the Alternative for Germany."
Immigrants Workers to Denmark from outside the EU have to have a Green Card to work. If you read the the article I have linked. One immigrant with a card was turn down for a job becuase he was unable to communicate in Danish, then goes on to say why was he allowed a Green Card in the first place. It would appear that well quailfied enginners etc, can only get labouring jobs.
So Gideon has managed to cut the bill in half, what a guy!
Wait, what's that?
Sky's Europe Correspondent Robert Nisbet says it appears the EU will still get the full £1.7bn as a result of what he said some would call "clever accounting".
Nisbet explained: "Next year there will be two instalments that will equal £850m that will be paid to Brussels by the UK and it will get its rebate in full. So far so good.
"But the following year, in 2016 it appears that Britain won't be getting all of its rebate back, it will be the rebate minus £850m.
"So in effect Britain over the next few years is still going to be paying about £1.7bn but it’s going to be done in a way that spreads the pain over a couple of years."
So Gideon has managed to cut the bill in half, what a guy!
Wait, what's that?
Sky's Europe Correspondent Robert Nisbet says it appears the EU will still get the full £1.7bn as a result of what he said some would call "clever accounting".
Nisbet explained: "Next year there will be two instalments that will equal £850m that will be paid to Brussels by the UK and it will get its rebate in full. So far so good.
"But the following year, in 2016 it appears that Britain won't be getting all of its rebate back, it will be the rebate minus £850m.
"So in effect Britain over the next few years is still going to be paying about £1.7bn but it’s going to be done in a way that spreads the pain over a couple of years."
Oh. Still good for the UK though, since we don't need to start paying interest on the £850m we'd have to borrow to pay the EU until next year (and a year's interest on £850m is a lot of money, would pay for a lot of nurses/teachers etc.).
And better than Labour or the Lib Dems would do, since they seem determined to give away as much money and sovereignty to the EU as possible.
So Gideon has managed to cut the bill in half, what a guy!
Wait, what's that?
Sky's Europe Correspondent Robert Nisbet says it appears the EU will still get the full £1.7bn as a result of what he said some would call "clever accounting".
Nisbet explained: "Next year there will be two instalments that will equal £850m that will be paid to Brussels by the UK and it will get its rebate in full. So far so good.
"But the following year, in 2016 it appears that Britain won't be getting all of its rebate back, it will be the rebate minus £850m.
"So in effect Britain over the next few years is still going to be paying about £1.7bn but it’s going to be done in a way that spreads the pain over a couple of years."
Oh.
Still good for the UK though, since we don't need to start paying interest on the £850m we'd have to borrow to pay the EU until next year (and a year's interest on £850m is a lot of money, would pay for a lot of nurses/teachers etc.).
And better than Labour or the Lib Dems would do, since they seem determined to give away as much money and sovereignty to the EU as possible.
Or is it all posturing, smoke and mirrors?
What Lab / Lib plans to increase in contributions to the EU are you referring to??
What proposed handover of sovereignty ??
The Government would have known about this for a long time it's been blown into and issue and "resolved" ( although that appears highly questionable) a week before UKIP take another Tory seat.
So Gideon has managed to cut the bill in half, what a guy!
Wait, what's that?
Sky's Europe Correspondent Robert Nisbet says it appears the EU will still get the full £1.7bn as a result of what he said some would call "clever accounting".
Nisbet explained: "Next year there will be two instalments that will equal £850m that will be paid to Brussels by the UK and it will get its rebate in full. So far so good.
"But the following year, in 2016 it appears that Britain won't be getting all of its rebate back, it will be the rebate minus £850m.
"So in effect Britain over the next few years is still going to be paying about £1.7bn but it’s going to be done in a way that spreads the pain over a couple of years."
Oh.
Still good for the UK though, since we don't need to start paying interest on the £850m we'd have to borrow to pay the EU until next year (and a year's interest on £850m is a lot of money, would pay for a lot of nurses/teachers etc.).
And better than Labour or the Lib Dems would do, since they seem determined to give away as much money and sovereignty to the EU as possible.
Or is it all posturing, smoke and mirrors?
What Lab / Lib plans to increase in contributions to the EU are you referring to??
What proposed handover of sovereignty ??
The Government would have known about this for a long time it's been blown into and issue and "resolved" ( although that appears highly questionable) a week before UKIP take another Tory seat.
Looks like cynical manipulation to me. When Labour were last in power they surrendered a large portion of our rebate and were responsible for the biggest transfer of powers from the UK to the unelected EC since the creation of the common market.
Furthermore, both Labour and the LibDems are members of groups in the European Parliament that call for more money and powers to be transferred to the EU, and the LibDems actively campaign for the EU to gain greater sovereignty over the member nations.
Whereas the Tories want to stay in cos their mates in the CBI will demand it and yet half their MP's and voters want out. No wonder Dave is shitting himself.
I'm no better or worse than any person born on any place in this earth. I don't have a special right to my country's finances, education system, benefits or healthcare just because I was lucky enough to be born here. I wasn't chosen. I'm not special. I just won the lottery and happened to grow up in one of the richest nations on earth. Why would that give me the right to look down on people who try to come to this country to take advantage of all it has to offer? Would any one of us not do the same if we could offer ourselves and our families a better life?
I'll never understand this anti-immigration mindset, the UK has more than enough to go around and still offer everyone a lifestyle that's better than 99% of the rest of the world. It's selfish, it's British people thinking they are some kind of divine species that shouldn't have to share what it has, a significant part of which was gained from a history of taking from poorer countries.
I'm no better or worse than any person born on any place in this earth. I don't have a special right to my country's finances, education system, benefits or healthcare just because I was lucky enough to be born here. I wasn't chosen. I'm not special. I just won the lottery and happened to grow up in one of the richest nations on earth. Why would that give me the right to look down on people who try to come to this country to take advantage of all it has to offer? Would any one of us not do the same if we could offer ourselves and our families a better life?
I'll never understand this anti-immigration mindset, the UK has more than enough to go around and still offer everyone a lifestyle that's better than 99% of the rest of the world. It's selfish, it's British people thinking they are some kind of divine species that shouldn't have to share what it has, a significant part of which was gained from a history of taking from poorer countries.
I'd say it was more an English than British tendency. Southern England mostly. Not everyone of course:-)
Comments
I moved to Maidstone two and a half years ago.
The amount of Eastern Europeans living and working in the town has visibly increased significantly - particularly in the last year. That's not a negative (except for the vast number of LHD cars with Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Bulgarian and Romanian plates) as they are obviously contributing a lot to the local economy.
Actually it's about time I tried some of their specialist Deli's that are opening up.
Rothco ---2007 2011 what about the years before---would this be when your beloved Labour party wasnt actually counting who was coming in ? or would all those years be when the left and Labour actually said mass immigration WASNT hapening
It's all macro level though. It will be harder for them to address the micro level concerns about local services and schools, who lives in my street etc (which are, IMHO, quite legitimate concerns in most cases)
Id like to say that my comment was not meant in a snidey way but pointing out the fact that the part of the report you qouted has nothing to do with the EU. A departure from the EU will have very little impact on NON EU migration; the only VISA catogory that would be removed would be the EEA dependant permit, which I personally do believe is to easy to abuse, but ultimately accounts for next to nothing in terms of Non EU migration rights.
I have yet to make a decision on where my vote would go but do not believe that the EU is Englands saviour; I do beleieve however it has contrbuted a lot. Take yesterdays Employment Appeal Tribunal decision about Overtime being taking into account in relation to holiday pay. I know when I used to work in retail I was contracted for 24 hours but often undertook up to 50 hoursirs on a consistent basis. Because of a decion made in compliance with Eu Working time directive I would know be entitled to a fair rate of holiday pay.
Sorry, can't find the irony on/off button here!
The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back.
I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there.
I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
I've never been to Maidstone I have to admit. I can certainly believe that there are places which see rapid rises in certain groups because I suppose it's natural for immigrants to feel more secure with people around them from the same place. All the Scandi countries are currently talking about immigration issues, that much I know. However there are a few obvious differences to the UK in their debates. Firstly I think they are relaxed about immigrants generally, but expect them to adopt local cultures and norms more firmly. I suppose this is because Britain starts from a higher base of immigrants from the Commonwealth. Secondly the Danes seem to generally accept that their immigration issues are not driven by EU membership. They have people from many countries. It seems to me that their attitude is: we will help you build a decent life if you work hard, learn the language and accept our way of doing things. They've probably got studies which show similar results to the one released today in the UK
Luton is a bit different granted!
A very differnt feel to the place indeed!
I have yet to make a decision on where my vote would go but do not believe that the EU is Englands saviour; I do beleieve however it has contrbuted a lot. Take yesterdays Employment Appeal Tribunal decision about Overtime being taking into account in relation to holiday pay. I know when I used to work in retail I was contracted for 24 hours but often undertook up to 50 hoursirs on a consistent basis. Because of a decion made in compliance with Eu Working time directive I would know be entitled to a fair rate of holiday pay.
I dont have an issue with the holiday pay ruling, but the ruling on commissions is bananas. The company I work for pays a lot of commission on sales - now we'll have to pay notional commission to salesmen on holiday, even though they wont have sold anything, so we have no earnings with which to fund it. The logical conclusion is that we will simply reduce the overall commission rates to compensate. Our sales are largely seasonal, and our salesmen take their (exotic) holidays in the off-season, so wouldnt have sold anything much then anyway. Lots of hassle to nobody's benefit.
An interesting if lengthy study.
Summary / conclusion page 312 on but whole thing linked for those with an interest in the subject.
The People's Party, which is significantly to the right of UKIP, gets 15%+ in elections and heavily influenced Denmarks' immigration policy which is described by the Danish Government as the strictist in Europe. For example, their laws on asylum seekers are as strict as are allowed under the Geneva Convention (much, much stricter than ours). There are huge restrictions on bringing foreign spouses into the country, particualrly for 2nd generation immigrants who have to prove that they have stronger links with Denmark than with their parents country (seriously, can you imagine the outcry if anyone tried to introduce that here).
The fact is most EU politicians, like UK politicians, have never spent any time in the real world, they've always been full-time politicians riding the gravy train with no real qualifications or real world experience. How can they be expected to understand the knock-on effects in the dozens on member nations of their blanket rulings when they have no idea of the subject matter in the first place, nor understand what it is like to work in a world where you either make a profit or you go out of business, whereas when the EU runs out of money they just need to ambush the UK Prime Minister with some made-up numbers.
ImmigrantsWorkers to Denmark from outside the EU have to have a Green Card to work. If you read the the article I have linked. One immigrant with a card was turn down for a job becuase he was unable to communicate in Danish, then goes on to say why was he allowed a Green Card in the first place. It would appear that well quailfied enginners etc, can only get labouring jobs.http://cphpost.dk/news/a-green-card-to-a-grey-zone.7567.html
Wait, what's that? Oh.
Still good for the UK though, since we don't need to start paying interest on the £850m we'd have to borrow to pay the EU until next year (and a year's interest on £850m is a lot of money, would pay for a lot of nurses/teachers etc.).
And better than Labour or the Lib Dems would do, since they seem determined to give away as much money and sovereignty to the EU as possible.
And better than Labour or the Lib Dems would do, since they seem determined to give away as much money and sovereignty to the EU as possible.
Or is it all posturing, smoke and mirrors?
What Lab / Lib plans to increase in contributions to the EU are you referring to??
What proposed handover of sovereignty ??
The Government would have known about this for a long time it's been blown into and issue and "resolved" ( although that appears highly questionable) a week before UKIP take another Tory seat.
Looks like cynical manipulation to me.
What Lab / Lib plans to increase in contributions to the EU are you referring to??
What proposed handover of sovereignty ??
The Government would have known about this for a long time it's been blown into and issue and "resolved" ( although that appears highly questionable) a week before UKIP take another Tory seat.
Looks like cynical manipulation to me.
When Labour were last in power they surrendered a large portion of our rebate and were responsible for the biggest transfer of powers from the UK to the unelected EC since the creation of the common market.
Furthermore, both Labour and the LibDems are members of groups in the European Parliament that call for more money and powers to be transferred to the EU, and the LibDems actively campaign for the EU to gain greater sovereignty over the member nations.
I'll never understand this anti-immigration mindset, the UK has more than enough to go around and still offer everyone a lifestyle that's better than 99% of the rest of the world. It's selfish, it's British people thinking they are some kind of divine species that shouldn't have to share what it has, a significant part of which was gained from a history of taking from poorer countries.