Cant arugue with the account spoint but wither regard to EU overuling UK courts this is inaccurate. When UK courts have been overuled it is by the European Court of Human Rights which is a seperate entity apart from the European Union.
The European Court of Justice, which decidedly is an EU Court, can also overrule UK courts.
Section 16 is probably the bit to read for a summary.
This paper is an argument over how many angels can dance on a pin head. It says Parliament is supreme over EU Law except that Parliament has said EU Law is imported into UK Law and takes precedence over UK Law. UK statutes and regulations will be dis-applied if in conflict with EU law.
So whatever your opinion you are right. Yes Parliament is supreme over EU Law. Yes EU Law overrules UK Law. Any wonder people argue over the EU.
Ultimately it boils down to a balanced evaluation of the pros and cons. What I think is naive is the notion that we (Cameron) can ditch the cons but keep the pros. Staying in the EU means accepting free movement - a fundamental tenet of the Treaty of Rome. I personally don't believe it's a problem and immigrants overwhelmingly contribute to society. But I accept that I'm taking that stance whilst living in rural Cheshire. We are all immigrants are we not? Just depends how far back you want to go.
It means accepting that some legislation is driven by and precedent set by the European Courts - but I do not believe that there have been many poor judgements. For example as an employer I agree that the Working Time Regulations can be a pain in the arse - but accept completely that it's better than having people working 80 hours a week in unsafe environments.
Coming out would perhaps get rid of the cons and deliver some pros - but we would lose a lot of the pros we have now as a member state. Whatever your political views it is a fact that we live in a capitalist society and the overwhelming view of private enterprise is that we should stay in. Private enterprise equates to jobs.
I'm not a fan of referendums - I believe that a representative democracy is good. But if we are to have a referendum on it (I voted Yes in 1975 - I had just turned 18 so my first ever vote - and I would vote Yes again) then I hope more than expect there is a balanced non-emotional debate so that the electorate are voting from an informed position. If it's a No then so be it.
However, when it comes to crunch time ALL main parties will campaign for a yes.
Cant arugue with the account spoint but wither regard to EU overuling UK courts this is inaccurate. When UK courts have been overuled it is by the European Court of Human Rights which is a seperate entity apart from the European Union.
The European Court of Justice, which decidedly is an EU Court, can also overrule UK courts.
Section 16 is probably the bit to read for a summary.
This paper is an argument over how many angels can dance on a pin head. It says Parliament is supreme over EU Law except that Parliament has said EU Law is imported into UK Law and takes precedence over UK Law. UK statutes and regulations will be dis-applied if in conflict with EU law.
So whatever your opinion you are right. Yes Parliament is supreme over EU Law. Yes EU Law overrules UK Law. Any wonder people argue over the EU.
My understanding, from Justice Laws' comments in the 'Metric Martyrs' case is that Parliament is only supreme over EU Law in so far as, under British Constitutional Law, no Parliament can bind a successor Parliament therefore the 1972 Accession to the Common Market (now the EU) can be repealed.
All the time we wish to be part of the Common Market (EU) however then EU Law is supreme.
As an aside I have a letter on House of Commons notepaper from my former Labour MP somewhere at home (unless she has thrown it out) categorically stating that EU Law overrides UK Law.
Interesting - why you show a Pie Chart which puts the UK contribution at the bottom of the list. The break down varies vastly according to your Tax/NI contributions.
Of course but it's used to illustrate how such a small percentage of our budget goes to the EU. Yet, listen to UKIP or anyone anti EU and they will tell you we are spending massive amounts.
Cant arugue with the account spoint but wither regard to EU overuling UK courts this is inaccurate. When UK courts have been overuled it is by the European Court of Human Rights which is a seperate entity apart from the European Union.
The European Court of Justice, which decidedly is an EU Court, can also overrule UK courts.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
I thought the proportions of welfare v pensions looked too high on that breakdown. Apparently for some weird reason, they've included public sector pensions under welfare spending, rather than as a category of its own.
Interesting - why you show a Pie Chart which puts the UK contribution at the bottom of the list. The break down varies vastly according to your Tax/NI contributions.
Of course but it's used to illustrate how such a small percentage of our budget goes to the EU. Yet, listen to UKIP or anyone anti EU and they will tell you we are spending massive amounts.
But the chart is based on Income Tax/NI contributions only, not what we each actually pay in contributions to the EU via other taxes etc. At first glance it could be assumed that is the total of contribution we each make. I note that the chart is the one used by the BBC I wonder why they chose that chart and not others which do not show the EU contribution bottom of the list. I personally would like a referendum, but I would not vote, but I think todays generation has the right to decide the future of this country.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
Do you see it as a bad thing that there are Eastern Europeans living in your street? This isn't a leading question or anything I'm just trying to gauge what your opinion is.
I'm presently on Lanzarote. Every street in the residential areas is chock-a-block full of Brits. They don't mix with the locals and completely change the whole feel of the place. Add in the tourists (like me!) and you get proper shops being replaced with crap shops selling trashy souvenirs, all day English breakfasts in low-rent English pubs - all very tacky. God knows what the Spanish think.
(Unlike the poxy BBC web site. Because I'm abroad I can't go to bbc.co.uk but have to put up with bbc.com where headline news is the US mid-term elections. Hey, if Yanks or anyone else are interested (which seems unlikely) can't they go to Fox News or something?)
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
I visit Maidstone regularly and used to live there. Can't say that I have noticed this there at all - although there are other towns where in Kent where there is a more visible presence of EU migrants.
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
I'm presently on Lanzarote. Every street in the residential areas is chock-a-block full of Brits. They don't mix with the locals and completely change the whole feel of the place. Add in the tourists (like me!) and you get proper shops being replaced with crap shops selling trashy souvenirs, all day English breakfasts in low-rent English pubs - all very tacky. God knows what the Spanish think.
I expect they all converse in the local language though :-)
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
so choose a stat believe what you want
Hello; the post is incorrect. According to that very report EU migration has generated a surplus of £20 billion when taking into account benefits and public services costs. That 120 billion relates to Non EU migration which has nothing to do with the EU. I think it is quite important to draw a distinction between the two types of migration dont you ?
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
so choose a stat believe what you want
Hello; the post is incorrect. According to that very report EU migration has generated a surplus of £20 billion when taking into account benefits and public services costs. That 120 billion relates to Non EU migration which has nothing to do with the EU. I think it is quite important to draw a distinction between the two types of migration dont you ?
What GH posting a load of bollox? I'm not having that :-)
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
so choose a stat believe what you want
Hello; the post is incorrect. According to that very report EU migration has generated a surplus of £20 billion when taking into account benefits and public services costs. That 120 billion relates to Non EU migration which has nothing to do with the EU. I think it is quite important to draw a distinction between the two types of migration dont you ?
What GH posting a load of bollox? I'm not having that :-)
I would never suggest anyone is talking bollox but in general when some is agaisnt a subject they will see what they want to see. I know someone who works in a bank she always remembers the immigrants coming in opening an account whilst in reciept of beneifts; when I ask her what the numbers are like with Brits in that situation she has to think about it before reluctantly admitting she sees more brits in that situation. Its human nature if your negative on something you tend to remember anything related to that more then anything else.
I work in an immigration field for the NHS. basically I assess whether a person will recieve free treatment or not. I have very indepth views on immigration and see the positives but also see negatives. What I can conclude is its not the immigrant to blame. Ill give you an example British pensioners living in Spain; the NHS picks up the bill for thier treatment because EU law allows that. The same does not happen here; if I encounter an EU pensioner living here I provide free treatment and do not charge thier home state; why because English law does not allow me to charge the home country. Now one has to question why is that the case; its a decision made by Britian even throuigh the EU says we should charge the home state. Who is to blame for that in my view its not the EU; it certainly is not the immigrant themselves but the English government who makes the law
well how strange !!!!!!!!!!!!! snide comments re anyone who dosnt agree with the "moral majority" on CL ??????? surely not.
so AGAIN if ANYONE who dosnt agree that the EU is the saviour of the British people are deluded ,idiots who clearly dont UNDERSTAND anything---why not vote on it ? Other countries voted on Mastrict treaty(sic) we didnt---why if the only opposition is the deluded and the UKIPers put your vote where your mouth is ? a walk over to stay in and the end of UKIP.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
Do you see it as a bad thing that there are Eastern Europeans living in your street? This isn't a leading question or anything I'm just trying to gauge what your opinion is.
Bear with me as you all know I am a long winded bugger...
Just got a service done on my car, it's in good nick but a 2001 plate. Just around the corner from me, in not the most salubrious part of Chatham is a back street garage. Looked dodgy but I thought I would pop in for a quote. Walked up to who turned out to be the owner and he was absolutely astonished that I was English and to be honest I was pretty surprised he was to. He has lived there above those premises for 45 years. Anyway he did a good job and I now get my daughters to take there cars there for bits and bobs, it's good to have a reliable and reasonably cheap mechanic on tap I think we all agree. Chatting to him one day, two Polish gentlemen rocked up and asked to borrow some sort of convoluted spanner thingy, he told them in no small terms to feck off. After they slopped off he pointed to a house just up the road where their extended family live. He informed me that there were 4 adults and 6 children living in that house on benefits (No comment on that because I cannot verify the fact). He also pointed to the two flat bed transits parked outside with which these guys run their rubbish clearance, scrap metal and mobile mechanic business from (cash only). So, the reason he was so short with our Polish friends was the fact that they would have the brass neck to ask to borrow tools from his legitimate business to potentially take his trade off of him and he is pissed off.
This is just one "story" of what I would guess are many many "stories" happening all over this country and this is what gets into the perception and minds of your average British citizen. This situation is why, a party like UKIP has risen to a astonishing level of popularity in such a short space of time. In answer to your question, yes, I do see it as a bad thing that Eastern Europeans are living in my street and I am not alone. Does it make me a racist? I hope not. I do not know the answers like most people. We are just asking our elected representatives to give us an answer and let's face it they haven't got a first clue either.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
Do you see it as a bad thing that there are Eastern Europeans living in your street? This isn't a leading question or anything I'm just trying to gauge what your opinion is.
Bear with me as you all know I am a long winded bugger...
Just got a service done on my car, it's in good nick but a 2001 plate. Just around the corner from me, in not the most salubrious part of Chatham is a back street garage. Looked dodgy but I thought I would pop in for a quote. Walked up to who turned out to be the owner and he was absolutely astonished that I was English and to be honest I was pretty surprised he was to. He has lived there above those premises for 45 years. Anyway he did a good job and I now get my daughters to take there cars there for bits and bobs, it's good to have a reliable and reasonably cheap mechanic on tap I think we all agree. Chatting to him one day, two Polish gentlemen rocked up and asked to borrow some sort of convoluted spanner thingy, he told them in no small terms to feck off. After they slopped off he pointed to a house just up the road where their extended family live. He informed me that there were 4 adults and 6 children living in that house on benefits (No comment on that because I cannot verify the fact). He also pointed to the two flat bed transits parked outside with which these guys run their rubbish clearance, scrap metal and mobile mechanic business from (cash only). So, the reason he was so short with our Polish friends was the fact that they would have the brass neck to ask to borrow tools from his legitimate business to potentially take his trade off of him and he is pissed off.
This is just one "story" of what I would guess are many many "stories" happening all over this country and this is what gets into the perception and minds of your average British citizen. This situation is why, a party like UKIP has risen to a astonishing level of popularity in such a short space of time. In answer to your question, yes, I do see it as a bad thing that Eastern Europeans are living in my street and I am not alone. Does it make me a racist? I hope not. I do not know the answers like most people. We are just asking our elected representatives to give us an answer and let's face it they haven't got a first clue either.
Yeah and my footballing buddy lives in Lordwoods and has a very pleasant Polish family living downstairs who a vast improvement upon the three previous White Anglo Saxon English residents!
I could show you streets full of indigenous English residents who behave in the way you describe. I could show you Streets full who don't!
Good and bad in every country.
BTW I have worked in Medway for ten years and have never experienced a surprise reaction from meeting and English owner of a business.
The fact is when a vote was held on membership of the "Common market" some nearly 40 years ago nobody told the British population of the extent of national government powers that would be eroded.
What powers have been eroded?
Border controls/Immigration? You might have noticed that it's quite a hot topic at the moment.
Border controls and immigration haven't changed noticeably since the 1970s. What has changed are the elements ramping up the fear and blame factor and the perceived/actual global security threats... As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America. Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Really?? Well where I live has changed a heck of a lot in just the last 10 years.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague. The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back. I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there. I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
Do you see it as a bad thing that there are Eastern Europeans living in your street? This isn't a leading question or anything I'm just trying to gauge what your opinion is.
Bear with me as you all know I am a long winded bugger...
Just got a service done on my car, it's in good nick but a 2001 plate. Just around the corner from me, in not the most salubrious part of Chatham is a back street garage. Looked dodgy but I thought I would pop in for a quote. Walked up to who turned out to be the owner and he was absolutely astonished that I was English and to be honest I was pretty surprised he was to. He has lived there above those premises for 45 years. Anyway he did a good job and I now get my daughters to take there cars there for bits and bobs, it's good to have a reliable and reasonably cheap mechanic on tap I think we all agree. Chatting to him one day, two Polish gentlemen rocked up and asked to borrow some sort of convoluted spanner thingy, he told them in no small terms to feck off. After they slopped off he pointed to a house just up the road where their extended family live. He informed me that there were 4 adults and 6 children living in that house on benefits (No comment on that because I cannot verify the fact). He also pointed to the two flat bed transits parked outside with which these guys run their rubbish clearance, scrap metal and mobile mechanic business from (cash only). So, the reason he was so short with our Polish friends was the fact that they would have the brass neck to ask to borrow tools from his legitimate business to potentially take his trade off of him and he is pissed off.
This is just one "story" of what I would guess are many many "stories" happening all over this country and this is what gets into the perception and minds of your average British citizen. This situation is why, a party like UKIP has risen to a astonishing level of popularity in such a short space of time. In answer to your question, yes, I do see it as a bad thing that Eastern Europeans are living in my street and I am not alone. Does it make me a racist? I hope not. I do not know the answers like most people. We are just asking our elected representatives to give us an answer and let's face it they haven't got a first clue either.
Yeah and my footballing buddy lives in Lordwoods and has a very pleasant Polish family living downstairs who a vast improvement upon the three previous White Anglo Saxon English residents!
I could show you streets full of indigenous English residents who behave in the way you describe. I could show you Streets full who don't!
Good and bad in every country.
BTW I have worked in Medway for ten years and have never experienced a surprise reaction from meeting and English owner of a business.
Lucky you IAgree. I currently live in and work near Luton Road. It was just meant to be an example just like your effort of how peoples opinions are formed in this country.
Comments
UN
TUC
the next Marvel comic "EU saves The World"
So whatever your opinion you are right. Yes Parliament is supreme over EU Law. Yes EU Law overrules UK Law. Any wonder people argue over the EU.
It means accepting that some legislation is driven by and precedent set by the European Courts - but I do not believe that there have been many poor judgements. For example as an employer I agree that the Working Time Regulations can be a pain in the arse - but accept completely that it's better than having people working 80 hours a week in unsafe environments.
Coming out would perhaps get rid of the cons and deliver some pros - but we would lose a lot of the pros we have now as a member state. Whatever your political views it is a fact that we live in a capitalist society and the overwhelming view of private enterprise is that we should stay in. Private enterprise equates to jobs.
I'm not a fan of referendums - I believe that a representative democracy is good. But if we are to have a referendum on it (I voted Yes in 1975 - I had just turned 18 so my first ever vote - and I would vote Yes again) then I hope more than expect there is a balanced non-emotional debate so that the electorate are voting from an informed position. If it's a No then so be it.
However, when it comes to crunch time ALL main parties will campaign for a yes.
All the time we wish to be part of the Common Market (EU) however then EU Law is supreme.
As an aside I have a letter on House of Commons notepaper from my former Labour MP somewhere at home (unless she has thrown it out) categorically stating that EU Law overrides UK Law.
As a kid it was cold war, Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine and south Africa with some scary regimes in central and south America.
Today we have "greater Russia", Israel (still) and IS plus economic migration into the EU.
The real issue is the collective control of all EU borders together with organised crime / people trafficking. People indulge in this activity because the EU capital cities are some of the richest parts of the world.
Watching Salmond squirming around stating how an independent Scotland would grab the bits they wanted must surely have illustrated that this is precisely the tack which Cameron is taking.
Only the other night Osborne was ramblings about the UK joining the EEC for different reasons to others so we should judge it on that basis of 40 years ago! No I'm sorry treaties have been negotiated and signed, Eastern European countries have joined to increase the labour and consumer market AND enhance security.
Not all UK citizens want to live, work or holiday in the EU. But guess what? Contrary to Farage's bye election campaign histrionics 14 months ago, not all Romanians want to live and work here.
So instead of imitating Salmond, a strong free marketeer Conservative prime minister would be campaigning for the French and Italians to open up their restrictive practices to benefit their consumers and our business but instead the Tory dog is being wagged by its UKIP tail!
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Where do you live, and how has it changed? Major cities do change a lot. I was In Copenhagen yesterday and it is unrecognisable from when I first visited in 1996. It is a lot busier and a lot more cosmopolitan. And it is also fecking brilliant, its citizens the most content on the planet. They are active critics of the EU, but they want to change it, not to leave it.
Live in Maidstone Prague.
The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back.
I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there.
I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back.
I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there.
I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
Do you see it as a bad thing that there are Eastern Europeans living in your street? This isn't a leading question or anything I'm just trying to gauge what your opinion is.
bbc.com/news/business-29910497
(Unlike the poxy BBC web site. Because I'm abroad I can't go to bbc.co.uk but have to put up with bbc.com where headline news is the US mid-term elections. Hey, if Yanks or anyone else are interested (which seems unlikely) can't they go to Fox News or something?)
The amount of eastern Europeans has gone through the absolute roof in the town centre areas. I would hazard a guess that 1/3 of my road is eastetn european and after being an electoral canvasser for years I know fully well that the level has risen massively In lots of areas around Maidstone in the last 5 years, let alone further back.
I also know that there are a huge amount not registered on the electoral list as they refuse to sign or say there are only 1 of them living in the house when I can see quite clearly that there are a lot more adults (let alone children) living there.
I would hazard a guess this is replicated all over the Country which is why I never truly believe immigration figures.
I've visited Copenhagen a couple of times - lovely city and not somewhere that appears negatively affected by immigration to me, other than around the main train station, which is the case in most major cities.
I visit Maidstone regularly and used to live there. Can't say that I have noticed this there at all - although there are other towns where in Kent where there is a more visible presence of EU migrants.
Immigration has COST the UK over £120 BILLION more in public services and state hand outs then has been received in TAX in the last 17 years -----------------------not from UKIP ----not from the BNP but from the University College London.
and there was me thinking we was all 60p better off after all labour did tell us that.
so choose a stat believe what you want
"Experts from University College London also said native Britons made a negative contribution of £591 billion over the 17 years"
Answer is simple then. Send all the native Britons back.
(Bit of political satire there, don't go getting offended on other peoples behalf now)
I work in an immigration field for the NHS. basically I assess whether a person will recieve free treatment or not. I have very indepth views on immigration and see the positives but also see negatives. What I can conclude is its not the immigrant to blame. Ill give you an example British pensioners living in Spain; the NHS picks up the bill for thier treatment because EU law allows that. The same does not happen here; if I encounter an EU pensioner living here I provide free treatment and do not charge thier home state; why because English law does not allow me to charge the home country. Now one has to question why is that the case; its a decision made by Britian even throuigh the EU says we should charge the home state. Who is to blame for that in my view its not the EU; it certainly is not the immigrant themselves but the English government who makes the law
well how strange !!!!!!!!!!!!! snide comments re anyone who dosnt agree with the "moral majority" on CL ??????? surely not.
so AGAIN if ANYONE who dosnt agree that the EU is the saviour of the British people are deluded ,idiots who clearly dont UNDERSTAND anything---why not vote on it ? Other countries voted on Mastrict treaty(sic) we didnt---why if the only opposition is the deluded and the UKIPers put your vote where your mouth is ? a walk over to stay in and the end of UKIP.
Bear with me as you all know I am a long winded bugger...
Just got a service done on my car, it's in good nick but a 2001 plate. Just around the corner from me, in not the most salubrious part of Chatham is a back street garage. Looked dodgy but I thought I would pop in for a quote. Walked up to who turned out to be the owner and he was absolutely astonished that I was English and to be honest I was pretty surprised he was to. He has lived there above those premises for 45 years. Anyway he did a good job and I now get my daughters to take there cars there for bits and bobs, it's good to have a reliable and reasonably cheap mechanic on tap I think we all agree. Chatting to him one day, two Polish gentlemen rocked up and asked to borrow some sort of convoluted spanner thingy, he told them in no small terms to feck off. After they slopped off he pointed to a house just up the road where their extended family live. He informed me that there were 4 adults and 6 children living in that house on benefits (No comment on that because I cannot verify the fact). He also pointed to the two flat bed transits parked outside with which these guys run their rubbish clearance, scrap metal and mobile mechanic business from (cash only). So, the reason he was so short with our Polish friends was the fact that they would have the brass neck to ask to borrow tools from his legitimate business to potentially take his trade off of him and he is pissed off.
This is just one "story" of what I would guess are many many "stories" happening all over this country and this is what gets into the perception and minds of your average British citizen. This situation is why, a party like UKIP has risen to a astonishing level of popularity in such a short space of time. In answer to your question, yes, I do see it as a bad thing that Eastern Europeans are living in my street and I am not alone. Does it make me a racist? I hope not. I do not know the answers like most people. We are just asking our elected representatives to give us an answer and let's face it they haven't got a first clue either.
Just got a service done on my car, it's in good nick but a 2001 plate. Just around the corner from me, in not the most salubrious part of Chatham is a back street garage. Looked dodgy but I thought I would pop in for a quote. Walked up to who turned out to be the owner and he was absolutely astonished that I was English and to be honest I was pretty surprised he was to. He has lived there above those premises for 45 years. Anyway he did a good job and I now get my daughters to take there cars there for bits and bobs, it's good to have a reliable and reasonably cheap mechanic on tap I think we all agree. Chatting to him one day, two Polish gentlemen rocked up and asked to borrow some sort of convoluted spanner thingy, he told them in no small terms to feck off. After they slopped off he pointed to a house just up the road where their extended family live. He informed me that there were 4 adults and 6 children living in that house on benefits (No comment on that because I cannot verify the fact). He also pointed to the two flat bed transits parked outside with which these guys run their rubbish clearance, scrap metal and mobile mechanic business from (cash only). So, the reason he was so short with our Polish friends was the fact that they would have the brass neck to ask to borrow tools from his legitimate business to potentially take his trade off of him and he is pissed off.
This is just one "story" of what I would guess are many many "stories" happening all over this country and this is what gets into the perception and minds of your average British citizen. This situation is why, a party like UKIP has risen to a astonishing level of popularity in such a short space of time. In answer to your question, yes, I do see it as a bad thing that Eastern Europeans are living in my street and I am not alone. Does it make me a racist? I hope not. I do not know the answers like most people. We are just asking our elected representatives to give us an answer and let's face it they haven't got a first clue either.
Yeah and my footballing buddy lives in Lordwoods and has a very pleasant Polish family living downstairs who a vast improvement upon the three previous White Anglo Saxon English residents!
I could show you streets full of indigenous English residents who behave in the way you describe. I could show you Streets full who don't!
Good and bad in every country.
BTW I have worked in Medway for ten years and have never experienced a surprise reaction from meeting and English owner of a business.
I could show you streets full of indigenous English residents who behave in the way you describe. I could show you Streets full who don't!
Good and bad in every country.
BTW I have worked in Medway for ten years and have never experienced a surprise reaction from meeting and English owner of a business.
Lucky you IAgree. I currently live in and work near Luton Road. It was just meant to be an example just like your effort of how peoples opinions are formed in this country.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/telegraphwire/2014/11/05/the-shocking-cost-of-eu-migration-in-full/