It doesn't seem from what has been said thus far that he physically raped her in the same way Evans did - the question remains though whether he knew (or cared) about her true age. In either case it was still a crime and he will be punished IF guilty... but if he genuinely believed she was 16, or even she told him she was, it's a different story altogether than sleeping with a girl you know full well it's illegal to do so.
It doesn't seem from what has been said thus far that he physically raped her in the same way Evans did - the question remains though whether he knew (or cared) about her true age. In either case it was still a crime and he will be punished IF guilty... but if he genuinely believed she was 16, or even she told him she was, it's a different story altogether than sleeping with a girl you know full well it's illegal to do so.
But Evans "genuinely believed"'she was sober enough to consent. However the court ruled that regardless of whether the woman verbally consented she never had the capacity to consent - exactly the same as an underage girl doesn't have the capacity to consent in the eyes of the law.
Will there be the same fuss if he goes to jail gets released as there was with Ched? In Adam's case it seems as though some girl probably lied about her age and Adam believed it. She was consenting. So I can't see the same problems like there was with Ched.
Are you serious? A nonce is a nonce. Why was he hanging around with a 15 y.o? If proven the his career is over. I am intrigued where you gleaned the age lying and consent from?
Well plenty of 15 year old girls (and even younger) get into nightclubs, none of us know the details but there's certainly a chance the case wont be as simple as "innocent" or "sick nonce".
It doesn't seem from what has been said thus far that he physically raped her in the same way Evans did - the question remains though whether he knew (or cared) about her true age. In either case it was still a crime and he will be punished IF guilty... but if he genuinely believed she was 16, or even she told him she was, it's a different story altogether than sleeping with a girl you know full well it's illegal to do so.
But Evans "genuinely believed"'she was sober enough to consent. However the court ruled that regardless of whether the woman verbally consented she never had the capacity to consent - exactly the same as an underage girl doesn't have the capacity to consent in the eyes of the law.
I am saying in this instance, based only on what little has been released, consent was given (which it wasn't at all, in Evans' case) but due to her age, it would be illegal regardless. He didn't get her drunk, or have a mate get her drunk like Evans. If he did have sex with her (still not proven of course) then it's a crime, no doubt whatsoever. It's still not clear to me whether he deliberately knew she wasn't 16 though. Like I say, still a crime but one is made by mistake, one is deliberate.
Will there be the same fuss if he goes to jail gets released as there was with Ched? In Adam's case it seems as though some girl probably lied about her age and Adam believed it. She was consenting. So I can't see the same problems like there was with Ched.
Are you serious? A nonce is a nonce. Why was he hanging around with a 15 y.o? If proven the his career is over. I am intrigued where you gleaned the age lying and consent from?
Well plenty of 15 year old girls (and even younger) get into nightclubs, none of us know the details but there's certainly a chance the case wont be as simple as "innocent" or "sick nonce".
A bit like that incident with Akon a few years ago, she was 15 and in a club that was supposed to be 21 and over only, and they checked her ID Apparently.
the issue is if they get hold of a fake ID, once they get all dressed up some of these girls can make themselves look older.
its actually scary, hence the reason I would never meet someone in a club.
First of all, I really hope the girl is fine and not affected and Johnson can get on with his career.
However if he is guilty and he knew she was 15 then he is very foolish to think he could get away with something like that in this country and should accept whatever punishment comes his way.
Although, if he had no idea of her age, as people have said that is a very unfortunate situation to find yourself in and I personally would feel sorry for him as people will and have, on twitter, begun labeling him already. I'm more talking about the type of crime in question here not about Johnson's as I really don't know much about this one. But I think its important to remember that young girls do dress up to make themselves look older, male and females lie about their age to the opposite sex, I knew 15 year old girls at school who had 20 year old boyfriends which would be the same offence - does a nonce is a nonce apply to that too? and also, this would not be illegal in countries such as iceland, italy, portugal and germany.
Will there be the same fuss if he goes to jail gets released as there was with Ched? In Adam's case it seems as though some girl probably lied about her age and Adam believed it. She was consenting. So I can't see the same problems like there was with Ched.
Are you serious? A nonce is a nonce. Why was he hanging around with a 15 y.o? If proven the his career is over. I am intrigued where you gleaned the age lying and consent from?
Well plenty of 15 year old girls (and even younger) get into nightclubs, none of us know the details but there's certainly a chance the case wont be as simple as "innocent" or "sick nonce".
A bit like that incident with Akon a few years ago, she was 15 and in a club that was supposed to be 21 and over only, and they checked her ID Apparently.
the issue is if they get hold of a fake ID, once they get all dressed up some of these girls can make themselves look older.
its actually scary, hence the reason I would never meet someone in a club.
The main reason clubs over here have a 21 age policy is because it's quite easy to get away with adding a couple of years on your true age, but much harder to get away with it if the limit is 21. There is the odd exception of course. If this was indeed the case with Johnson, he has my full sympathy. For those who like to climb on their moral high horses, how many (if they were in a 21 & over nightclub and she looked legit) would honestly ask a potential leg over for I.D? If she used fake I.D and consented, that makes Johnson the victim in my eyes. Regardless of whether he's done anything wrong, he'll be tainted with this for the rest of his career. Is that really fair on him if he's innocent?
One of our players had a very nasty accusation made about him a while back (I won't say his name, as I don't want to open it all up again). The only reason nothing is made of this is because at the time he was a nobody, and still is in the grand scale of football media. However, If the time comes and he ever makes it to the big time, I have no doubt that some shitty tabloid will bring it back into the open and some idiots will have him marked as a wrong un, regardless of the fact it was shown to be a pack of lies.
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out...........
Whatever the case, footballers don't seem to learn do they?
They are in a privileged position, earning bundles. Maybe a good idea to keep your head down and not go round shagging randoms, whatever their age (and even if he thought she was 16+, she can't have looked that old).
It's not like 40 years ago where they could be playboys due the lack of social media and also the lack of a ridiculous pay packet.
Whilst there can be a chance for there to be a mistake of age, the law maintains that the accused must make take all reasonable precautions to make sure it doesn't. However it is not the time to speculate or make jokes.
As for girls looking older these days, they don't to their parents my girls will always be my babies and something like this would crush me.
I think the whole "not knowing her age" rubbish is stupid, he is a 27 year old grown man not a naive 19 year old, even if this child seemed mature enough in appearance to be over 16 or even 18 it is highly unlikely that her personality would have been that of a grown woman, if it were I doubt was substantial enough for him to be 100% convinced. Also how old are we saying he thought she may have been 16? Ok that is the age of consent but there is still something a little perverted about a man of 27 wanting to have sex with a 16 year old kid. The final thing is it is irresponsible on his part, being in a high profile job, to have sex with anyone without knowing some sort of background especially if they seem quite Young.
I see where you're coming from Sadie, but what if she looked 21 and he's picking her up in a club with a 21 restriction on the door?
As for her not having the personality of a adult, there's plenty of girls who are mentally mature for their age, just as there's plenty of mature women who act like silly teenagers (only got to look on facebook to see that). Besides, I don't think most blokes are too worried about making a girl sit a mensa test (and Johnson has never come across as much of a thinker).
I'm not trying to defend him, but equally, I won't judge him until the facts are all laid out.........
I see where you're coming from Sadie, but what if she looked 21 and he's picking her up in a club with a 21 restriction on the door?
As for her not having the personality of a adult, there's plenty of girls who are mentally mature for their age, just as there's plenty of mature women who act like silly teenagers (only got to look on facebook to see that). Besides, I don't think most blokes are too worried about making a girl sit a mensa test (and Johnson has never come across as much of a thinker).
I'm not trying to defend him, but equally, I won't judge him until the facts are all laid out.........
A 15 year old would rarely pass as 21 if ever that's why a lot of clubs have an over 21 policy. The difference in both maturity and appearance of an 18 year old and a 21 year old is quite a lot.
@sadiejane1981 the maturity levels of some women over 21 and visit clubs is not always high so there's a decent chance she could've fitted in. If she looked older (and by that I mean nearer 20 than just 16) and didn't seem to act out of place then I have sympathy for him, but of course need to wait until the facts come out.
I found out my 15 yr old niece was in a night club that has a 21 yr of age entry, it's easily done by girls who are of more devious nature and more developed, needless to say that I went in to the club found her and bought her home all to her absolute horror and that of the bloke who had wasted 30 quid on shots and vodka and cokes
It's situations like this that should be a reminder to all men that there for the grace of God go I
My niece was at best being niave and at worst manipulative and stupid, do I think she looks 21 no, do I think she looked as old as 60% of those in that club,
I think that justice should be allowed to be done here without guessing
There is nothing perverted about a 27 year old man wanting to have sex with a 16 year old girl for goodness sake. The sweeping statements made by some on these kind of threads are simply ridiculous.
No comment on Adam Johnson, other than to say the name Graham Rix.
Rix was found guilty of sex with a minor, in 1999 when he was 42.
The offence talk place in 1997 when the girl was two weeks short of her 16th Birthday. In the court case, it came out that when Rix said to the girl that he had played in the 1982 world cup, she replied, that's the year i was born. Even thou after that it was stated she said she was older, the alarm bells should've gone off in his head.
SadieJane1981 (7.57am) is a good post,but i don't know i can agree it is perverted for a 27 year old man to fancy a 16 year old ? (These guys would tend to be immature)
Is it perverted for a 25 year old female teacher to have sex with a 15 year old boy (It's against the law and she would throw her career away)
Is it Perverted for a 16 to 24 year old girl/young woman to date/marry a man over 65 (i'm sure the fact most of these men are minted is a coincident)
The Laws states a female under 16 is a child so even if it's by 5 minutes common sense or maturity should keep a guy away from the temptations.
the picture of the girl in question makes her look definitely nearer 21 than 15
and parents have to take partial responsibilty here , for their children, if they are happy for them to be out and about and not know their whereabouts or believe what their conniving little kids are up to then so be it
the picture of the girl in question makes her look definitely nearer 21 than 15
and parents have to take partial responsibilty here , for their children, if they are happy for them to be out and about and not know their whereabouts or believe what their conniving little kids are up to then so be it
Seems a little harsh to be putting some of the blame on her parents without knowing anything about her or how she was brought up.
the picture of the girl in question makes her look definitely nearer 21 than 15
and parents have to take partial responsibilty here , for their children, if they are happy for them to be out and about and not know their whereabouts or believe what their conniving little kids are up to then so be it
Seems a little harsh to be putting some of the blame on her parents without knowing anything about her or how she was brought up.
He did say " if they are happy for them to be out and about and not know their whereabouts..." Etc, Col. " IF" is the relevant word IMHO.
Will there be the same fuss if he goes to jail gets released as there was with Ched? In Adam's case it seems as though some girl probably lied about her age and Adam believed it. She was consenting. So I can't see the same problems like there was with Ched.
Are you serious? A nonce is a nonce. Why was he hanging around with a 15 y.o? If proven the his career is over. I am intrigued where you gleaned the age lying and consent from?
Well plenty of 15 year old girls (and even younger) get into nightclubs, none of us know the details but there's certainly a chance the case wont be as simple as "innocent" or "sick nonce".
A bit like that incident with Akon a few years ago, she was 15 and in a club that was supposed to be 21 and over only, and they checked her ID Apparently.
the issue is if they get hold of a fake ID, once they get all dressed up some of these girls can make themselves look older.
its actually scary, hence the reason I would never meet someone in a club.
Comments
the issue is if they get hold of a fake ID, once they get all dressed up some of these girls can make themselves look older.
its actually scary, hence the reason I would never meet someone in a club.
Innocent until proven guilty,
However if he is guilty and he knew she was 15 then he is very foolish to think he could get away with something like that in this country and should accept whatever punishment comes his way.
Although, if he had no idea of her age, as people have said that is a very unfortunate situation to find yourself in and I personally would feel sorry for him as people will and have, on twitter, begun labeling him already. I'm more talking about the type of crime in question here not about Johnson's as I really don't know much about this one. But I think its important to remember that young girls do dress up to make themselves look older, male and females lie about their age to the opposite sex, I knew 15 year old girls at school who had 20 year old boyfriends which would be the same offence - does a nonce is a nonce apply to that too? and also, this would not be illegal in countries such as iceland, italy, portugal and germany.
One of our players had a very nasty accusation made about him a while back (I won't say his name, as I don't want to open it all up again). The only reason nothing is made of this is because at the time he was a nobody, and still is in the grand scale of football media. However, If the time comes and he ever makes it to the big time, I have no doubt that some shitty tabloid will bring it back into the open and some idiots will have him marked as a wrong un, regardless of the fact it was shown to be a pack of lies.
It will be interesting to see how this all pans out...........
They are in a privileged position, earning bundles. Maybe a good idea to keep your head down and not go round shagging randoms, whatever their age (and even if he thought she was 16+, she can't have looked that old).
It's not like 40 years ago where they could be playboys due the lack of social media and also the lack of a ridiculous pay packet.
Why did he even put himself in the situation?
As for girls looking older these days, they don't to their parents my girls will always be my babies and something like this would crush me.
As for her not having the personality of a adult, there's plenty of girls who are mentally mature for their age, just as there's plenty of mature women who act like silly teenagers (only got to look on facebook to see that). Besides, I don't think most blokes are too worried about making a girl sit a mensa test (and Johnson has never come across as much of a thinker).
I'm not trying to defend him, but equally, I won't judge him until the facts are all laid out.........
People transposing their own views on a serious criminal case they know next to nothing about.
How about let the matter run and see what the facts are, then comment and/or judge rather than hanging or excusing the guy now?
It's situations like this that should be a reminder to all men that there for the grace of God go I
My niece was at best being niave and at worst manipulative and stupid, do I think she looks 21 no, do I think she looked as old as 60% of those in that club,
I think that justice should be allowed to be done here without guessing
Rix was found guilty of sex with a minor, in 1999 when he was 42.
The offence talk place in 1997 when the girl was two weeks short of her 16th Birthday. In the court case, it came out that when Rix said to the girl that he had played in the 1982 world cup, she replied, that's the year i was born.
Even thou after that it was stated she said she was older, the alarm bells should've gone off in his head.
SadieJane1981 (7.57am) is a good post,but i don't know i can agree it is perverted for a 27 year old man to fancy a 16 year old ? (These guys would tend to be immature)
Is it perverted for a 25 year old female teacher to have sex with a 15 year old boy
(It's against the law and she would throw her career away)
Is it Perverted for a 16 to 24 year old girl/young woman to date/marry a man over 65 (i'm sure the fact most of these men are minted is a coincident)
The Laws states a female under 16 is a child so even if it's by 5 minutes common sense or maturity should keep a guy away from the temptations.
and parents have to take partial responsibilty here , for their children, if they are happy for them to be out and about and not know their whereabouts or believe what their conniving little kids are up to then so be it