But what you can say is, whether he has improved at WHU or not, he'd have definitely progressed much more quickly than he has done by playing competitive games.
That's clear to see with the likes of Fox, now Cousins and even Gomez.
again if oyet was here yes he would be playing first team more than likely if Fox, Gomez or Cousins went to West Ham would they start NO, don't think you can say they have developed better than Poyet in that case
unless as I said u have seen him in training or under 21 games
According to Wet Spam's web site, he has made a grand total of three league appearances for their development squad. (in addition to three for their first team and two for Huddersfield.) While at Huddersfield, they played four games. He was an unused sub in one and not selected at all in the last game he was available for. Doesn't sound like he's setting the world alight to me!
You won't get a reply because you've completely finished the job NLA started and he won't have a reply. I know that the Poyet of last season wouldn't have a problem getting into Huddlesfields team.....
Not replying because I know when to stop, otherwise I will lose my account.
Its clear I am the only person in the universe who think he made the right choice moving to a premier league club and don't think that at 19 years his career has stagnated
but then you reply to me? So answer this, if he has progressed as you state why did he not feature in all of Huddlesfields 4 games?
Apparently the Huddersfield manager isn't very good.
My two pents: I think it's often assumed that progression is linear and straight forward, when in reality it is a series of linear movements forward balanced by periods of consolidation, or "rest". I think that "stagnation", as a term (which can also mean, "slow growth" and not no growth), implies that the wheels have come off, when in fact, that just suits a particular narrative. Outside of his coaches, no one knows whether he is progressing in a meaningful way and, certainly, that can't only be measured by the amount of games he's played.
Well, my recollection is that he was often the best player on the pitch when he played for us. I expected him to have a great future and there is still time for that. As he is no longer a Charlton player though, I don't much care and I don't much care which country he decides to play for.
Anyone who thinks that playing in front of a bloke and his dog with players who are either crocked, not going to make it or too old is better than playing week in, week out pro football where the tens of thousands of fans would've backed to the hilt needs their head tested. Are you sure the u21s train with the first team?
Fox and cousins have shown first team football can make you come on leaps and bounds.
On a side note, Bournemouth's Matt Richie has been called up to play for Scotland.
He's never been to Scotland in his life.
I think it's through a grandparent.
whilst that does qualify him under the current criteria I would be interested to know if he actually cared about our national team or if it's just an opportunity to play international football.
Wasn't Diego unhappy with the way Roland was running things and hence didn't sign the new deal? I remember thinking back in January when we had Roland out chants thinking maybe he was right.
Still think he should have stayed a season or two for his own benefit, but we've survived without him and he's probably earning a decent wage so I'm not going to feel sorry for him not playing.
Diego looked good with poor players around him. There's the argument to say that better players would have made him look better, but you could also say that he wouldn't have looked as special if others were technically better. We were on the back foot at the time for most games so he saw a lot of the ball.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
Because he ain't good enough, hardly broke into the hamsters first team, and has stagnated since leaving,
Scott Parker was stagnating in our reserves until he was 20/21.
Jordan, Joe and Morgan are playing first team football in an average championship side and none are anywhere NEAR as good as poyet was when he was playing for us last season. Your comments make no sense.
Diego looked good with poor players around him. There's the argument to say that better players would have made him look better, but you could also say that he wouldn't have looked as special if others were technically better. We were on the back foot at the time for most games so he saw a lot of the ball.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
Diego looked good with poor players around him. There's the argument to say that better players would have made him look better, but you could also say that he wouldn't have looked as special if others were technically better. We were on the back foot at the time for most games so he saw a lot of the ball.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
I agree with this 100%
Can either of you honestly say if you was being offered 5k a week(for arguments sake) at your current employer, but someone else offered you 10k a week, with better facilities that you would say no to the 10k out of loyalty.
If you say you would you are either
1- A Liar 2- A mug who does not care about providing for their family in the future if something happens to you and you can't bring a wage in
If I had been brought through and trained at my company from such a young age and asked to sign a new contract to enable them to get a better return on their investment in me then I wouldn't just run down my contract and make up some wanky excuse about the manager.
also if you think that real work is in anyway comparable to the football world of contracts then it is you that is the mug.
But it wasn't a wanky excuse was it? The way Charlton was being run at the time was an absolute farce. Infact, did we even have a manager at the time?!
We let ourselves down by not getting his contract sorted earlier.
But it wasn't a wanky excuse was it? The way Charlton was being run at the time was an absolute farce. Infact, did we even have a manager at the time?!
We let ourselves down by not getting his contract sorted earlier.
Exactly, the way he performed in the first team may have surprised the fans, but there is no way it would have surprised the coaches who had seen him in training.
Why did we wait until he was playing first team football and getting MOTM awards left, right and centre to offer him a contract, if we had that much faith in him we would have done it before he broke into the first team.
But it wasn't a wanky excuse was it? The way Charlton was being run at the time was an absolute farce. Infact, did we even have a manager at the time?!
We let ourselves down by not getting his contract sorted earlier.
Exactly, the way he performed in the first team may have surprised the fans, but there is no way it would have surprised the coaches who had seen him in training.
Why did we wait until he was playing first team football and getting MOTM awards left, right and centre to offer him a contract, if we had that much faith in him we would have done it before he broke into the first team.
We showed no faith in him, so why should he show
CAFC Dave just explained it to you Paulie - do him the courtesy of reading what he says before spouting off again.
Diego looked good with poor players around him. There's the argument to say that better players would have made him look better, but you could also say that he wouldn't have looked as special if others were technically better. We were on the back foot at the time for most games so he saw a lot of the ball.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
I agree with this 100%
Can either of you honestly say if you was being offered 5k a week(for arguments sake) at your current employer, but someone else offered you 10k a week, with better facilities that you would say no to the 10k out of loyalty.
If you say you would you are either
1- A Liar 2- A mug who does not care about providing for their family in the future if something happens to you and you can't bring a wage in
What if you're someone who can see the potential future benefit of staying with your current employer?
Which I'd imagine is partly NLA's point, if he has slowed down his own progress by moving to West Ham, then in the long run he might lose out.
Diego looked good with poor players around him. There's the argument to say that better players would have made him look better, but you could also say that he wouldn't have looked as special if others were technically better. We were on the back foot at the time for most games so he saw a lot of the ball.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
I agree with this 100%
Can either of you honestly say if you was being offered 5k a week(for arguments sake) at your current employer, but someone else offered you 10k a week, with better facilities that you would say no to the 10k out of loyalty.
If you say you would you are either
1- A Liar 2- A mug who does not care about providing for their family in the future if something happens to you and you can't bring a wage in
Personally:
- I can see why he'd want to go and get as much money as possible as money is nice
- I think he's a prick for leaving us with no option for cashing in on all the training and years of loyalty we showed him
Not mutually exclusive options.
Where would the harm of signing a year or two extension have been? More game time and we cash in when someone wants him. Sure he has the right to be selfish but I can think he's a twat for doing so.
Because he ain't good enough, hardly broke into the hamsters first team, and has stagnated since leaving,
Scott Parker was stagnating in our reserves until he was 20/21.
Jordan, Joe and Morgan are playing first team football in an average championship side and none are anywhere NEAR as good as poyet was when he was playing for us last season. Your comments make no sense.
I'm not sure I'm having that Cousins or Gomez are "nowhere near" as good as Poyet was last season. I don't know if his development has stagnated at West Ham, quite frankly I'm not sure how it's possible to say, but I think there's a bit of revisionism going on. He was a very good player and I was gutted to lose him for free but not nearly as gutted as I'd be if Gomez (or Cousins for that matter) left this summer.
On a side note, Bournemouth's Matt Richie has been called up to play for Scotland.
He's never been to Scotland in his life.
I think it's through a grandparent.
whilst that does qualify him under the current criteria I would be interested to know if he actually cared about our national team or if it's just an opportunity to play international football.
I'd have to think that it's the latter. If he had much of a Scottish feeling about him you'd think he'd manage to get the train up to Berwick for a deek over the border at some point in his twenty odd years. Decent player though he is I'm not sure that any international team really benefits from having people with no connection involved. Kris Commons being a case in point...
By the way, well done to the Jambos. Who'd have thought that sevco and their expensive stars would be scrabbling around for second place before easter.
But it wasn't a wanky excuse was it? The way Charlton was being run at the time was an absolute farce. Infact, did we even have a manager at the time?!
We let ourselves down by not getting his contract sorted earlier.
Exactly, the way he performed in the first team may have surprised the fans, but there is no way it would have surprised the coaches who had seen him in training.
Why did we wait until he was playing first team football and getting MOTM awards left, right and centre to offer him a contract, if we had that much faith in him we would have done it before he broke into the first team.
We showed no faith in him, so why should he show
CAFC Dave just explained it to you Paulie - do him the courtesy of reading what he says before spouting off again.
how is anything I put there against what CAFC Dave said, I was agreeing with cafctom, who was disagreeing with dave's point about a wanky excuse.
once again I would like to no why u singled me out, when it was cafctom who originally disagreed with dave about the wanky excuse and yet its me who you decide to start arguing with.
how about you do me the courtesy of reading things properly
Joe gomez is already ten times in ability above poyet,
Jordan cousins is as good as poyet now as when poyet left
Poyet being allowed to get to the stage where he could leave how he did was inexcusable on behalf of the club
Poyet showed no loyalty nor did he have too, but he didn't show any which speaks volumes about personal accountability and his own morale compass
One thing I am certain of Joe gomez will be the best player we have ever produced, he will eclipse all others
As for parker if you want an examplet of how hard it is to break into the England midfield when you have real talent
Poyet has not progressed one iota since leaving and mentioning playing in the stiffs at a prem club progresses your career further even if it means you miss a whole season competitive football in the league below is not making sense at all Parker left to go on loan learn from the coal front came back a better player
Diego looked good with poor players around him. There's the argument to say that better players would have made him look better, but you could also say that he wouldn't have looked as special if others were technically better. We were on the back foot at the time for most games so he saw a lot of the ball.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
I agree with this 100%
Can either of you honestly say if you was being offered 5k a week(for arguments sake) at your current employer, but someone else offered you 10k a week, with better facilities that you would say no to the 10k out of loyalty.
If you say you would you are either
1- A Liar 2- A mug who does not care about providing for their family in the future if something happens to you and you can't bring a wage in
But it wasn't a wanky excuse was it? The way Charlton was being run at the time was an absolute farce. Infact, did we even have a manager at the time?!
We let ourselves down by not getting his contract sorted earlier.
well, IMO, considering that he only played a quarter (ish) of his 20 games under Powell AND won POTY it was an incredible wanky excuse.
I am not looking to argue with yourself, or Paulie, just giving my opinion.
Comments
Don't know.
Would he of progressed much more as as an actual professional at Charlton with another 40+ games under his belt?
Certainly.
Fox and cousins have shown first team football can make you come on leaps and bounds.
He's never been to Scotland in his life.
whilst that does qualify him under the current criteria I would be interested to know if he actually cared about our national team or if it's just an opportunity to play international football.
You heard it here first
back in January when we had Roland out chants thinking maybe he was right.
Still think he should have stayed a season or two for his own benefit, but we've survived without him and he's probably earning a decent wage so I'm not going to feel sorry for him not playing.
It's a bit like standing next to your ugly mate at the bar to make yourself look better.
I'd question whether he's as good as Buyens (not talking about 'potential', just at this stage). I certainly wouldn't want the judas back either way, however well people feel they can justify his actions.
Jordan, Joe and Morgan are playing first team football in an average championship side and none are anywhere NEAR as good as poyet was when he was playing for us last season. Your comments make no sense.
If you say you would you are either
1- A Liar
2- A mug who does not care about providing for their family in the future if something happens to you and you can't bring a wage in
also if you think that real work is in anyway comparable to the football world of contracts then it is you that is the mug.
We let ourselves down by not getting his contract sorted earlier.
Why did we wait until he was playing first team football and getting MOTM awards left, right and centre to offer him a contract, if we had that much faith in him we would have done it before he broke into the first team.
We showed no faith in him, so why should he show
Which I'd imagine is partly NLA's point, if he has slowed down his own progress by moving to West Ham, then in the long run he might lose out.
- I can see why he'd want to go and get as much money as possible as money is nice
- I think he's a prick for leaving us with no option for cashing in on all the training and years of loyalty we showed him
Not mutually exclusive options.
Where would the harm of signing a year or two extension have been? More game time and we cash in when someone wants him. Sure he has the right to be selfish but I can think he's a twat for doing so.
I assume you feel the same way about Defoe?
By the way, well done to the Jambos. Who'd have thought that sevco and their expensive stars would be scrabbling around for second place before easter.
once again I would like to no why u singled me out, when it was cafctom who originally disagreed with dave about the wanky excuse and yet its me who you decide to start arguing with.
how about you do me the courtesy of reading things properly
Jordan cousins is as good as poyet now as when poyet left
Poyet being allowed to get to the stage where he could leave how he did was inexcusable on behalf of the club
Poyet showed no loyalty nor did he have too, but he didn't show any which speaks volumes about personal accountability and his own morale compass
One thing I am certain of Joe gomez will be the best player we have ever produced, he will eclipse all others
As for parker if you want an examplet of how hard it is to break into the England midfield when you have real talent
Poyet has not progressed one iota since leaving and mentioning playing in the stiffs at a prem club progresses your career further even if it means you miss a whole season competitive football in the league below is not making sense at all
Parker left to go on loan learn from the coal front came back a better player
I am not looking to argue with yourself, or Paulie, just giving my opinion.