@RichardJ Great post. Thanks for the kind words. Also surprised Labour proposal to put supporters on the board of clubs within first 100 days has hardly been discussed on here in this thread (unless I missed it). I am not sure how workable it is in practice, but at least they (and I guess Clive Efford is the main man on this ) recognise the considerable disquiet many people feel about the way our game is going. If Labour get in, I'm going to lobby Ed Davey on the issue.
I am also surprised none of our Tory supporters on here have not told us what their plans for football are. An interest in Charlton is what unites all users of this forum after all .
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
I think the point that admittedly was an extreme one, is that there is a need for Business social responsibility. Primark using kids to make their clothes - Wall-Mart - Asda selling products that have been involved with slave labour as in prawns. Chocolate, coffee, rubber industry using slave and child labour. Are we content about this? There is a long list of companies with proven link sto slave labour - Victoria's Secret, Toys R Us, Philip Morris.....
What I mean by that is that, usually, the main parties must have "killer" points to make about each other and are keeping their powder dry to cause the most impact. Campaign management isn't just about drip-feeding good news and steering the positive agenda; it's also about dropping the right, mortally-wounding, incendiary bomb into the enemies' territories and seeing them squirm. So far, it's been missing.
The Tories have concentrated on fairly small issues (eg "English votes for English laws") of positive message and two big-ticket items of enemy-bashing ("The SNP is dangerous" and "Ed Miliband stabbed his brother"). Neither of these blows have landed.
Labour seems only to have promoted its positive message, aiming at its core support. So, typically, it's more spending on the NHS, a "fairer" tax system, mansion tax and rent control. All very low-key, predictable stuff aimed at quelling, rather than swelling the Labour masses. The attacks have been on Cameron's foreign policy void (ie "how did we allow a military campaign in Libya to go ahead without proper resolution-planning?") and a surgical attack on Michael Fallon ("he's demeaned himself", in response to Fallon's attack on Miliband).
The LibDems are - as usual - conflicted. On the one hand they're ruling out the possibility of "doing deals" with anyone other than the largest party (in which case, why did they spend so much time talking to Labour after the 2010 election?) - on the other hand, they seem to be keeping every door open. There's not much from the LibDems that's either positive (no wonder: look at the coalition's record on housing, tuition fees and Europe) or negative.
Ukip - the shouty party has bleated on (and on and on) about its one gripe ("open doors immigration policy") and, at the same time, ignored every piece of evidence that immigration works in the UK's best interest. So far, they are doing a very professional job of concentrating their voters' minds on the one policy.
What I can't wait to find out, however, is when do the big bombs start to get dropped and what are they? I thought there might have been a hint of one earlier today, when the focus suddenly shifted to Farage's health. But he seems to have batted that away quite quickly.
It's a rhetorical question because, simply, we won't know until we know. But I can't help wondering: "what big bombs are the main parties going to drop?"
Cadbury's have not yet set a date when they will solely use ethical cocoa. Do people know what unethical cocoa is - apart from cheap? We all love cheap Primark clothes and apple products too, don't we?Best not to ask, then you don't know. Even better not to care.
But the banks have learned their lesson. Ok RBS are being investigated for massive investment in climate polution. Well it is profitable. Let them get on with it I say. Anybody see my point yet?
@RichardJ Great post. Thanks for the kind words. Also surprised Labour proposal to put supporters on the board of clubs within first 100 days has hardly been discussed on here in this thread (unless I missed it). I am not sure how workable it is in practice, but at least they (and I guess Clive Efford is the main man on this ) recognise the considerable disquiet many people feel about the way our game is going. If Labour get in, I'm going to lobby Ed Davey on the issue.
I am also surprised none of our Tory supporters on here have not told us what their plans for football are. An interest in Charlton is what unites all users of this forum after all .
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
Or Blair watching Wor Jackie in the Gallogate end ?
Or Blair living rough in Lomdon.
Or being a stowaway On flight to Barbados(?) even though no flights from Newcastle went to that destination.
@RichardJ Great post. Thanks for the kind words. Also surprised Labour proposal to put supporters on the board of clubs within first 100 days has hardly been discussed on here in this thread (unless I missed it). I am not sure how workable it is in practice, but at least they (and I guess Clive Efford is the main man on this ) recognise the considerable disquiet many people feel about the way our game is going. If Labour get in, I'm going to lobby Ed Davey on the issue.
I am also surprised none of our Tory supporters on here have not told us what their plans for football are. An interest in Charlton is what unites all users of this forum after all .
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
Or Blair watching Wor Jackie in the Gallogate end ?
Or Blair living rough in Lomdon.
Or being a stowaway On flight to Barbados(?) even though no flights from Newcastle went to that destination.
I can't speak about the other matters you describe but the Blair /Jackie Milburn story was an urban myth.
@RichardJ Great post. Thanks for the kind words. Also surprised Labour proposal to put supporters on the board of clubs within first 100 days has hardly been discussed on here in this thread (unless I missed it). I am not sure how workable it is in practice, but at least they (and I guess Clive Efford is the main man on this ) recognise the considerable disquiet many people feel about the way our game is going. If Labour get in, I'm going to lobby Ed Davey on the issue.
I am also surprised none of our Tory supporters on here have not told us what their plans for football are. An interest in Charlton is what unites all users of this forum after all .
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
Or Blair watching Wor Jackie in the Gallogate end ?
Or Blair living rough in Lomdon.
Or being a stowaway On flight to Barbados(?) even though no flights from Newcastle went to that destination.
What kind of an answer is that? The questions were what are the Tories (or indeed anybodies) plans for football and that the premier league is killing football at a grass roots level.
I was referring to Cameronforgetting he 'supports' Villa when he obviously doesn't. Was trying to be like Joe Public like Blair used to tell tall tales too. They all do it. But I probably shouldn't have quoted you as not directly replying to your actual post more the football meme in general.
I was referring to Cameronforgetting he 'supports' Villa when he obviously doesn't. Was trying to be like Joe Public like Blair used to tell tall tales too. They all do it. But I probably shouldn't have quoted you as not directly replying to your actual post more the football meme in general.
Wasn't my original post, but the Blair Newcastle stuff did make me cringe, in fact the "working class" Blair act made me cringe.
WONGA - basically a legal loan shark. Big donators to the Conservative party. Poor people paying 5,000 per cent interest, ultra rich can get loans for zero per cent. Keeps the poor poor and the rich rich. Wonga should never be legal in this country. I wonder why they are?
@RichardJ Great post. Thanks for the kind words. Also surprised Labour proposal to put supporters on the board of clubs within first 100 days has hardly been discussed on here in this thread (unless I missed it). I am not sure how workable it is in practice, but at least they (and I guess Clive Efford is the main man on this ) recognise the considerable disquiet many people feel about the way our game is going. If Labour get in, I'm going to lobby Ed Davey on the issue.
I am also surprised none of our Tory supporters on here have not told us what their plans for football are. An interest in Charlton is what unites all users of this forum after all .
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
So the Tories are now to blame for everything that is wrong in English football now?
Is there anything that the Tories aren't responsible for? According to some people on this thread, no. Cancer - Tories. Floods - Tories. Killer bees - Tories. Refusing to let the Valley be renovated - Tories.
WONGA - basically a legal loan shark. Big donators to the Conservative party. Poor people paying 5,000 per cent interest, ultra rich can get loans for zero per cent. Keeps the poor poor and the rich rich. Wonga should never be legal in this country. I wonder why they are?
@RichardJ Great post. Thanks for the kind words. Also surprised Labour proposal to put supporters on the board of clubs within first 100 days has hardly been discussed on here in this thread (unless I missed it). I am not sure how workable it is in practice, but at least they (and I guess Clive Efford is the main man on this ) recognise the considerable disquiet many people feel about the way our game is going. If Labour get in, I'm going to lobby Ed Davey on the issue.
I am also surprised none of our Tory supporters on here have not told us what their plans for football are. An interest in Charlton is what unites all users of this forum after all .
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
So the Tories are now to blame for everything that is wrong in English football now?
Is there anything that the Tories aren't responsible for? According to some people on this thread, no. Cancer - Tories. Floods - Tories. Killer bees - Tories. Refusing to let the Valley be renovated - Tories.
I was actually hoping you or one of your chums were going to enlighten us about what the Tory plans for football were . I can't find any mention of it anywhere ,so I assume they are happy with the way the PL operates .
In the absence of any Conservative policies what do you think of Efford's ideas ? At least he is trying to do something positive for fans .
Or would you see that as unneeded state intervention?
WONGA - basically a legal loan shark. Big donators to the Conservative party. Poor people paying 5,000 per cent interest, ultra rich can get loans for zero per cent. Keeps the poor poor and the rich rich. Wonga should never be legal in this country. I wonder why they are?
Labour seems only to have promoted its positive message, aiming at its core support. So, typically, it's more spending on the NHS, a "fairer" tax system, mansion tax and rent control. All very low-key, predictable stuff aimed at quelling, rather than swelling the Labour masses.
Looking at that, it should be a piece of piss to question those policies so maybe people are right to question why the Tories are not doing it.....
- More spending on the Nhs. That's right - a national health service that already provides global leading health care to us all. I should know - the treatment and care my mum received during her terminal lung cancer was incredible. We are looking to cut a deficit and right the books - so how are we going to fund more spending? Probably getting the higher earners to pay for it I expect
- fairer tax system. Higher earners pay a fecking fortune and high percentage of tax. Lower earners don't. It's already bloody fair enough
- mansion tax.....person works hard and is successful in life. Hammer them on a charge for having a nice house. Pure jealousy at the highest level. Equity rich / cash poor people can pay the charge when they die. Erm - inheritance tax is high enough. You work all your life for your family and their future. Yet more ways to rob from the wealthy.
Rent control - probably the one my knowledge gap harms my ability to analyse but in general more houses would be sold rather than rented in a world where people struggle to buy anuway. Less quality homes available to the average person goes against providing more roofs over peoples heads.
I would urge people to watch the dispatches you tube link I put up. It was from a programme broadcast in 2010. A lot of the messages were the same then as they are now. The programme is even more relevant today than it was in 2010.
WONGA - basically a legal loan shark. Big donators to the Conservative party. Poor people paying 5,000 per cent interest, ultra rich can get loans for zero per cent. Keeps the poor poor and the rich rich. Wonga should never be legal in this country. I wonder why they are?
I was referring to Cameronforgetting he 'supports' Villa when he obviously doesn't. Was trying to be like Joe Public like Blair used to tell tall tales too. They all do it. But I probably shouldn't have quoted you as not directly replying to your actual post more the football meme in general.
Wasn't his uncle? the Chairman at Villa, or something? God I hope they go down!
Given that football in general and Charlton in particular are probably just about the only things that we all have in common, I've gone through the manifestos of the five main pan-UK parties to see what they have to say about our sport. Based on football alone, the Lib/Dems and Labour come out strongest. The yellow team have three proposals around safe standing, improved supporter engagement and the outlawing of homophobic chanting. Whilst the reds clearly understand the importance of football to people and have more concrete proposals regarding supporters trusts and fan representation. The Tories and the Greens both seem pretty week. Cameron's crew seem to want nothing more than artificial pitches in over 30 cities, whilst Bennett's band lump football clubs in with other organisations that could be run as cooperatives. Perhaps unsurprisingly UKIP come in last. They have nothing specific to say about football and the only mention these philistines make of sport in general is that they would abolish the government department that has a remit for sport.
Typical Labour interventionist nonsense - the clubs belong to the owners not the fans. If the fans don't like the way they're run they can stop attending.
Given that football in general and Charlton in particular are probably just about the only things that we all have in common, I've gone through the manifestos of the five main pan-UK parties to see what they have to say about our sport. Based on football alone, the Lib/Dems and Labour come out strongest. The yellow team have three proposals around safe standing, improved supporter engagement and the outlawing of homophobic chanting. Whilst the reds clearly understand the importance of football to people and have more concrete proposals regarding supporters trusts and fan representation. The Tories and the Greens both seem pretty week. Cameron's crew seem to want nothing more than artificial pitches in over 30 cities, whilst Bennett's band lump football clubs in with other organisations that could be run as cooperatives. Perhaps unsurprisingly UKIP come in last. They have nothing specific to say about football and the only mention these philistines make of sport in general is that they would abolish the government department that has a remit for sport.
If you take a free market view of the world then there is nothing wrong with the way football is run at the moment.
I see clubs as being more than just businesses. I don't post on Internet forums about Asda, Sainsbury or Tesco and happily shop in all of them depending on price and quality. I am not about to move my Season Ticket to West Ham in their new ground despite the fact it is walkable from where I live and could be cheaper for higher level football.
Personally I like Efford's ideas. I just hope they would get acted on if Labour forms the next government and not get forgotton.
Comments
I don't expect much from Cameron who can't even remember the name of the team his Uncle used to own and who he nominally claims to support or Gideon who follows Chelsea but has only been to one game in the last five years . Albeit he got the best seat in the house for it and sat by the presentation of the Champions League trophy .
I guess the Conservatives would believe that the Premier League in its current guise is classic free market capitalism and they would not wish to intervene . It is after all a massive international commercial success story and high ticket prices are a consequence of supply and demand .
Its a shame that it is also killing the game at grass roots and destroying genuine competition .
What I mean by that is that, usually, the main parties must have "killer" points to make about each other and are keeping their powder dry to cause the most impact. Campaign management isn't just about drip-feeding good news and steering the positive agenda; it's also about dropping the right, mortally-wounding, incendiary bomb into the enemies' territories and seeing them squirm. So far, it's been missing.
The Tories have concentrated on fairly small issues (eg "English votes for English laws") of positive message and two big-ticket items of enemy-bashing ("The SNP is dangerous" and "Ed Miliband stabbed his brother"). Neither of these blows have landed.
Labour seems only to have promoted its positive message, aiming at its core support. So, typically, it's more spending on the NHS, a "fairer" tax system, mansion tax and rent control. All very low-key, predictable stuff aimed at quelling, rather than swelling the Labour masses. The attacks have been on Cameron's foreign policy void (ie "how did we allow a military campaign in Libya to go ahead without proper resolution-planning?") and a surgical attack on Michael Fallon ("he's demeaned himself", in response to Fallon's attack on Miliband).
The LibDems are - as usual - conflicted. On the one hand they're ruling out the possibility of "doing deals" with anyone other than the largest party (in which case, why did they spend so much time talking to Labour after the 2010 election?) - on the other hand, they seem to be keeping every door open. There's not much from the LibDems that's either positive (no wonder: look at the coalition's record on housing, tuition fees and Europe) or negative.
Ukip - the shouty party has bleated on (and on and on) about its one gripe ("open doors immigration policy") and, at the same time, ignored every piece of evidence that immigration works in the UK's best interest. So far, they are doing a very professional job of concentrating their voters' minds on the one policy.
What I can't wait to find out, however, is when do the big bombs start to get dropped and what are they? I thought there might have been a hint of one earlier today, when the focus suddenly shifted to Farage's health. But he seems to have batted that away quite quickly.
It's a rhetorical question because, simply, we won't know until we know. But I can't help wondering: "what big bombs are the main parties going to drop?"
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/26/sol-campbell-are-most-footballers-tories-probably
But the banks have learned their lesson. Ok RBS are being investigated for massive investment in climate polution. Well it is profitable. Let them get on with it I say. Anybody see my point yet?
Or Blair living rough in Lomdon.
Or being a stowaway On flight to Barbados(?) even though no flights from Newcastle went to that destination.
I can't speak about the other matters you describe but the Blair /Jackie Milburn story was an urban myth.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7749778.stm
http://salutsunderland.com/2010/04/tony-blair-and-newcastle-united-when-the-truth-hurts/
What has Blair got to do with any of it?
http://www.john-robertson.co.uk/2012/10/wonga-backs-tories-–-“reverse-robin-hood”-says-robertson/
Is there anything that the Tories aren't responsible for? According to some people on this thread, no. Cancer - Tories. Floods - Tories. Killer bees - Tories. Refusing to let the Valley be renovated - Tories.
We are all in this together - what a laugh!
In the absence of any Conservative policies what do you think of Efford's ideas ? At least he is trying to do something positive for fans .
Or would you see that as unneeded state intervention?
- More spending on the Nhs. That's right - a national health service that already provides global leading health care to us all. I should know - the treatment and care my mum received during her terminal lung cancer was incredible. We are looking to cut a deficit and right the books - so how are we going to fund more spending? Probably getting the higher earners to pay for it I expect
- fairer tax system. Higher earners pay a fecking fortune and high percentage of tax. Lower earners don't. It's already bloody fair enough
- mansion tax.....person works hard and is successful in life. Hammer them on a charge for having a nice house. Pure jealousy at the highest level. Equity rich / cash poor people can pay the charge when they die. Erm - inheritance tax is high enough. You work all your life for your family and their future. Yet more ways to rob from the wealthy.
Rent control - probably the one my knowledge gap harms my ability to analyse but in general more houses would be sold rather than rented in a world where people struggle to buy anuway. Less quality homes available to the average person goes against providing more roofs over peoples heads.
God I hope they go down!
I guess @newyorkaddick makes my point for me.
If you take a free market view of the world then there is nothing wrong with the way football is run at the moment.
I see clubs as being more than just businesses. I don't post on Internet forums about Asda, Sainsbury or Tesco and happily shop in all of them depending on price and quality. I am not about to move my Season Ticket to West Ham in their new ground despite the fact it is walkable from where I live and could be cheaper for higher level football.
Personally I like Efford's ideas. I just hope they would get acted on if Labour forms the next government and not get forgotton.