General Election 2015 official thread
Comments
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I think every correct minded person, would agree that the Ford Pinto case (personally never heard of it), is reprehensible. If what you describe is correct.seth plum said:I am aware that enterprise and business making money ends up paying for everything, and the Conservatives are promoting a 'growing economy' as their main slogan.
OK I get that, and the debate seems to be a) how to keep the economy growing and b) how to divvy things up.
Now philosophically one may argue that Conservative free marketism is about the economy growing no matter what, and socialism is about the divvying up.
I want to pause on the free market bit, and take a moment to consider the idea of making money, and ask if there is any hindrance to businesses being compelled to making as much money as possible, or ought there to be?
I came across the Ford Pinto case, where freedom of business, and a notion called 'cost benefit analysis' was being applied. In a kind of nutshell it transpired that the big business (Ford) would rather not spend $10 per vehicle to ensure safety as there were so many vehicles needing the part, but that it would be cheaper to pay out compensation to the injured and those affected by bereavement for those vehicles that crashed due to the mechanical fault.
In terms of cost benefit analysis, or as interpreted by me the machinations of big business where the numbers come first, then avoiding the vehicle upgrades, and paying out to the bereaved makes sense.
However in terms of other values, human values if you like, Fords attitude of distain is in my world view reprehensible.
My problem here is that philosophically I link the Tories to the big businesses, and by association I see them as (to quote Wilde) people who know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing.
Yes a bit of a sweeping generalisation, but the underlying philosophies of the right, and the underlying philosophies (as understood by me) of the left, is that I would prefer a hospital that tried to help me to get better after a crash in a Ford Pinto, than a hospital content to help me to the morgue after a crash in a Ford Pinto.
An example of how some businesses (used to, and maybe still do) really think.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Professionalism/The_Ford_Pinto_Gas_Tank_Controversy
It has no bearing on voting Conservative or Labour, other than in your own mind.
I don't believe any Tory would condone unsafe businesses practices.0 -
Where you read Labour, you could read Conservative and where you read left, you could read right. It would still make perfect sense.
FPTP is broken and we need a different voting system.2 -
I suppose that is my point, what is in a persons mind when voting is going to influence their vote isn't it?Covered End said:
I think every correct minded person, would agree that the Ford Pinto case (personally never heard of it), is reprehensible. If what you describe is correct.seth plum said:I am aware that enterprise and business making money ends up paying for everything, and the Conservatives are promoting a 'growing economy' as their main slogan.
OK I get that, and the debate seems to be a) how to keep the economy growing and b) how to divvy things up.
Now philosophically one may argue that Conservative free marketism is about the economy growing no matter what, and socialism is about the divvying up.
I want to pause on the free market bit, and take a moment to consider the idea of making money, and ask if there is any hindrance to businesses being compelled to making as much money as possible, or ought there to be?
I came across the Ford Pinto case, where freedom of business, and a notion called 'cost benefit analysis' was being applied. In a kind of nutshell it transpired that the big business (Ford) would rather not spend $10 per vehicle to ensure safety as there were so many vehicles needing the part, but that it would be cheaper to pay out compensation to the injured and those affected by bereavement for those vehicles that crashed due to the mechanical fault.
In terms of cost benefit analysis, or as interpreted by me the machinations of big business where the numbers come first, then avoiding the vehicle upgrades, and paying out to the bereaved makes sense.
However in terms of other values, human values if you like, Fords attitude of distain is in my world view reprehensible.
My problem here is that philosophically I link the Tories to the big businesses, and by association I see them as (to quote Wilde) people who know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing.
Yes a bit of a sweeping generalisation, but the underlying philosophies of the right, and the underlying philosophies (as understood by me) of the left, is that I would prefer a hospital that tried to help me to get better after a crash in a Ford Pinto, than a hospital content to help me to the morgue after a crash in a Ford Pinto.
An example of how some businesses (used to, and maybe still do) really think.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Professionalism/The_Ford_Pinto_Gas_Tank_Controversy
It has no bearing on voting Conservative or Labour, other than in your own mind.
I don't believe any Tory would condone unsafe businesses practices.
There is a phrase isn't there 'the battle for hearts and minds'?0 -
Listen sonny. That's what that border policeman at Ebbsfleet said to me. And look what happened to him :-)Covered End said:Anyway, back to a reasonable debate.
What happens, if there is, (probably will be) a minority government and it's not working, so another election is called after 6 months.
Why should it have a different outcome ?
Are we going to have to vote every 6 months ?
PS Fiish what job do you do ? I can't comprehend how you can be posting on here all day & work as well. I'm not meaning to be rude and don't expect an answer tbh. I'm not questioining the others, because I believe many of them to be retired.
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Can I just say, regardless of who is voting for who etc.. It's really quite exciting this year.
The whole "anything can happen" thing is making it the most interesting and most exciting parliamentary campaign I've ever witnessed and am quite looking forward to the overnight revelations on 7th-8th May I think there might be quite a few upsets.2 -
sadiejane1981 said:
Can I just say, regardless of who is voting for who etc.. It's really quite exciting this year.
The whole "anything can happen" thing is making it the most interesting and most exciting parliamentary campaign I've ever witnessed and am quite looking forward to the overnight revelations on 7th-8th May I think there might be quite a few upsets.
I'll certainly be upset if the Tories are anywhere near power.5 -
I was trying to not cause offence, by appearing be singling out someonePragueAddick said:
Listen sonny. That's what that border policeman at Ebbsfleet said to me. And look what happened to him :-)Covered End said:Anyway, back to a reasonable debate.
What happens, if there is, (probably will be) a minority government and it's not working, so another election is called after 6 months.
Why should it have a different outcome ?
Are we going to have to vote every 6 months ?
PS Fiish what job do you do ? I can't comprehend how you can be posting on here all day & work as well. I'm not meaning to be rude and don't expect an answer tbh. I'm not questioining the others, because I believe many of them to be retired.
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So will I it's like a really good relegation battle, you may not like the outcome but it still strangely enjoyable.AddickUpNorth said:sadiejane1981 said:Can I just say, regardless of who is voting for who etc.. It's really quite exciting this year.
The whole "anything can happen" thing is making it the most interesting and most exciting parliamentary campaign I've ever witnessed and am quite looking forward to the overnight revelations on 7th-8th May I think there might be quite a few upsets.
I'll certainly be upset if the Tories are anywhere near power.
One horse races are boring.2 -
I thought I'd bump this, as not many commented & personally I thought it extremely interesting.Covered End said:Ok, let's get back to some interesting "facts".
I've just watched last night's Panorama - Who will win the election ?
American statistician Nate Silver, who apparently called the last USA election correct re every single US State & apparently, always gets these things correct. His prediction -
Conservative 283
Labour 270
SNP 48
Lib Dem 24
DUP 8
UKIP 1
Others 16
His conclusion. To close too call what will happen.
Personally, if I understand it correctly and the present govt, get first dibs.
Then the Tories, basically, have to try and get most of the others on their side (obviously SNP will side with Labour).
I can't see that happening & think it's more likely Lib Dems will side with Labour & Labour will form a minority govt.0 -
Boring as fcuk. ;0)Covered End said:
I thought I'd bump this, as not many commented & personally I thought it extremely interesting.Covered End said:Ok, let's get back to some interesting "facts".
I've just watched last night's Panorama - Who will win the election ?
American statistician Nate Silver, who apparently called the last USA election correct re every single US State & apparently, always gets these things correct. His prediction -
Conservative 283
Labour 270
SNP 48
Lib Dem 24
DUP 8
UKIP 1
Others 16
His conclusion. To close too call what will happen.
Personally, if I understand it correctly and the present govt, get first dibs.
Then the Tories, basically, have to try and get most of the others on their side (obviously SNP will side with Labour).
I can't see that happening & think it's more likely Lib Dems will side with Labour & Labour will form a minority govt.
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No offence taken. I'm a financial controller but I manage to fit in work in between CL sessions.Covered End said:Anyway, back to a reasonable debate.
What happens, if there is, (probably will be) a minority government and it's not working, so another election is called after 6 months.
Why should it have a different outcome ?
Are we going to have to vote every 6 months ?
PS Fiish what job do you do ? I can't comprehend how you can be posting on here all day & work as well. I'm not meaning to be rude and don't expect an answer tbh. I'm not questioining the others, because I believe many of them to be retired.3 -
Typical Tories, always needing Labour to clear up their mess.DamoNorthStand said:
No problem with the Greens. I am all for recycling old waste and doing my bit for the environment.
(photo from my Dads downstairs toilet - who says politics doesn't run in the family!)8 -
Would it be true to say then that a financial controller is quite analytical, concerned with figures?0
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If you are indeed centrist could you please point me in the direction of your withering denouncements of the Tories?Fiiish said:
I despise Labour so I must be right-wing? OK then. Has nothing to do that their party is made up almost entirely of discredited charlatans who would be in over their head running a tuck shop, let alone a country. It's amazing the selective reading people have on here that they seem to miss all the posts I made actually stating my political position (Centrist, sympathetic towards LibDems more than anything) or when I criticised the Tories (welfare, environment, housing).LawrieAbrahams said:
Tories not right wing enough for you?Fiiish said:
I'm a Tory? I should be told, I've forgot to vote for them my whole life!PragueAddick said:
That's not a coalition. That's a cabal of ToriesSouthendaddick said:Out of the non genuine benefits claimants in this country ie those that are either lazy, on the fiddle, unemployable, on smack, or all of the above, how much as a percentage would vote labour if they bothered to vote?
100%?
Maybe 95%
Doesn't that tell it all?
I'd vote for a NLA/Fiish/DamoNorthStand coalition tomorrow...
The fact is, the people say 'this is ruining the good points you've made', they're actually saying 'you posted something previously I agreed with, but I disagree with this because it means criticising Labour, so you must be wrong'.
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Russell Brand is the most hypocritical tool in popular culture.2
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He's a politician. Being a tool is mandatory.3
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I have never called any poster nasty, and my personal attack was merely to say keep on posting as it doesn't do Labour any harm!!! LOLFiiish said:
I think you're confused. It's not about buying into right-wing beliefs, it's about getting upset and attacking anyone who doesn't buy into Labour being the best party to run the country. I don't have a right-wing agenda, I just think politicians ought to be held to account. Some people on here think politicians are allowed to be unaccountable if they're wearing a red rosette.AddickUpNorth said:Fiiish said:
You too matey, your pointless ramblings and constant personal attacks are showing everyone what a nasty bunch you lot are.MuttleyCAFC said:I can assure you - no obsession, and keep on posting
Does Muttley speak for all of us who don't buy into right-wing beliefs because I'm a tad confused who this 'nasty bunch' are?
Whatever you say about Russell Brand, some of the criticism of Miliband for allowing himself to be interviewed by him is ridiculous. He has a million followers, now if he is telling them not to vote, why shouldn't Miliband tell them why they should. In fact, it is his duty to. Russell Brand did make one of the best award acceptance speeches ever to his credit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6DH0Jhglp4 2 -
Russell Brand has very sound and sensible ideas about drugs, the war on them and how to best deal with them.2
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Bloody bean counter - that explains a lot ;-)Fiiish said:
No offence taken. I'm a financial controller but I manage to fit in work in between CL sessions.Covered End said:Anyway, back to a reasonable debate.
What happens, if there is, (probably will be) a minority government and it's not working, so another election is called after 6 months.
Why should it have a different outcome ?
Are we going to have to vote every 6 months ?
PS Fiish what job do you do ? I can't comprehend how you can be posting on here all day & work as well. I'm not meaning to be rude and don't expect an answer tbh. I'm not questioining the others, because I believe many of them to be retired.3 -
Rekcon Sinn Fein are going to be a major player in the next coalition but Fine Gael have said now way will they go in with them and with Fianna Fail still wiping the blood of their noses it's how many independants can the Shinners cozy up to and how long that could last. - Ooops, wrong election.
One thing I do know about your election and our election is that whoever we vote for, invariably they will be mostly C**ts.0 -
bobmunro said:
Bloody bean counter - that explains a lot ;-)Fiiish said:
No offence taken. I'm a financial controller but I manage to fit in work in between CL sessions.Covered End said:Anyway, back to a reasonable debate.
What happens, if there is, (probably will be) a minority government and it's not working, so another election is called after 6 months.
Why should it have a different outcome ?
Are we going to have to vote every 6 months ?
PS Fiish what job do you do ? I can't comprehend how you can be posting on here all day & work as well. I'm not meaning to be rude and don't expect an answer tbh. I'm not questioining the others, because I believe many of them to be retired.
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You moaned about Boris bullying Ed the Daffy Duck on Sunday; and here you are, 20 onto 1. What's happening to us? We used to be like a big family! I'm with AFKA on this, once the election is over and The Cons are still in power with Ukip ruffling a few feathers, we should have no more threads on politics.0
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The explanations for greater UK inequality and the 'rise of the super rich' are global in nature because every developed country is experiencing the same phenomenon, regardless of political hue.
For example (all highly linked factors):
- globalisation: wage deflationary for the less skilled yet very wage inflationary for the highly skilled (including footballers etc.) - the resultant newly wealthy from emerging markets meanwhile not surprisingly want to leave their homelands to settle in a handful of world class cities (ie. London or Paris not Manchester or Marseille);
- the internet: again highly deflationary for wages and margins unless you happen to be clever or rich enough to work for/own some of the leading companies;
- low interest rates: linked to the above deflationary trends - creates asset bubbles which accrue to those that own assets;
- education: as a result of the above, the 'return on education' has increased significantly - again accrues disproportionately to those who are born into families that value education (often the educated and thus richer segment of society though not exclusively so as certain immigrant cohorts have proved). At least here there is room for a real debate (eg. state vs private, selective vs comprehensive etc.).
None of the parties can affect these trends so the question is how far can they tilt the system before they risk social meltdown (Tory) or economic meltdown (Labour). The answer in both cases 'not very much' - hence my view that on election day we will see a swing to the devil voters know.0 -
Oh well, we can all unite is supporting the reds of Rotherham trumping the blues of Millwall tonight!3
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I'd keep the Reds of Rotherham out of this (in the political sense of the wor)MuttleyCAFC said:Oh well, we can all unite is supporting the reds of Rotherham trumping the blues of Millwall tonight!
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brogib said:
You moaned about Boris bullying Ed the Daffy Duck on Sunday; and here you are, 20 onto 1. What's happening to us? We used to be like a big family! I'm with AFKA on this, once the election is over and The Cons are still in power with Ukip ruffling a few feathers, we should have no more threads on politics.
Yes that's it, shut down political dissent. Typical of your kind
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As much as being a footballer is concerned with kicking a ball, yes.AddickUpNorth said:Would it be true to say then that a financial controller is quite analytical, concerned with figures?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FdbH4rN9b4
