There are only seventeen players with 200+ appearances and 47+ goals for The Addicks. So he's up there in pretty exalted company. I'd love to see JJ get another three goals to make it 50.
What is truly remarkable that he is the only one on the list who has never played a match as a forward. All of the others have. It is also pretty impressive that his games per goal ratio is 9th best on the list. I understand the argument about devaluing words like legend through overuse but really, if the bar is set much higher then we'll never call anyone a legend again. Johnnie is only 16 games, 3 goals and an FA Cup victory away from Don Welsh's record. Let's hope he achieves that this season.
He may be much admired, much loved, a stalwart, a great captain etc, but not a legend.
To be a legend, you have to virtually have 100% love and admiration from the fans. No dissenters.
Killer, Mendonca, Rufus & Kinsella come to mind.
Johnnie has far too many detractors (justified or not). Blimey there's a substantial minority who don't even think he's warranted a place in the team for 3 years.
He's a legend in my eyes. Stuck with us when he could have fucked off to Brighton the season they went up. ALWAYS turned up for the Millwall games amd regardless of how the result went he came out with credit. Has been constantly played out of position and never sulked, how many games has he won for us?
In the 200+ club and made an appearance for the club since 1/1/2000.
Steve Brown 283 Jon Fortune 216 Matt Holland 215 Johnnie Jackson 200 Dean Kiely 248 Mark Kinsella 226 Radostin Kishishev 200 Shaun Newton 285 Chris Powell 270 John Robinson 382 Richard Rufus 323 Luke Young 208
Solly (171) and Cousins (96) the next 2 possibles.
12 players in the last 15 1/2 years. Not many players hang around for too long at Charlton. Fair play to Jacko and hopefully we will see the likes of Bauer and Gudmundsson on that list in 5/6 years time.
Mark Kinsella played a similar number of games over a similar length of time scoring half the number of goals. Kins played with by and large immeasurably better players at a higher level. Kins also went on to have a management role, albeit not a hugely successful one.
They are comparable although most people would not consider that JJ had what it takes to play in the PL. Nevertheless, has JJ got what it takes to be called a legend? I don't think you can tell until his time with us is up and we look back. But I would say he is up there looking at the last 20 years. Certainly since we dropped out of the top flight.
Either way JJ= cult hero and you have to love the fella.
Kinsella was a better player, a PL level midfielder, but Jackson is a better captain and leader, especially when you consider the ragbag of players we've had over the last few years. Legend is a hard word to define, Gritty is a Charlton legend, but an average player. The likes of Costa and Simonsen are legends, but hardly played for us
Steve Brown 283. (legend no) Jon Fortune 216 ( scored a legendary goal not a legend) Matt Holland 215( no) Johnnie Jackson 200 ( not yet Imo) Dean Kiely 248 ( best keeper of the last 20 yrs legend or not) Mark Kinsella 226 ( yes led us through our greatest success) Radostin Kishishev 200 ( no) Shaun Newton 285 (no) Chris Powell 270 ( yes Imo for playing service and managerial success) John Robinson 382 ( I'd say yes tbh very influencial in our promotion and prem yrs) Richard Rufus 323 (Yes) Luke Young 208 (no)
Just goes to show 200 is a land mark and a real milestone but doesn't automatically make legendary status,
Dean Kiely Is a tougher question Imo, I'd like to say yes but legends should be a tough decision based on a critera that greater minds than mine can decide
In the 200+ club and made an appearance for the club since 1/1/2000.
Steve Brown 283 NO Jon Fortune 216 NO Matt Holland 215 NO Johnnie Jackson 200 Almost there Dean Kiely 248 NO Mark Kinsella 226 YES Radostin Kishishev 200 NO Shaun Newton 285 NO Chris Powell 270 YES John Robinson 382 YES Richard Rufus 323 YES Luke Young 208 NO
Out of interest decided to try and find the squad list when he first joined - not sure how accurate this is but really shows how much the club has changed in the time he's been here - and he has been an integral part of our progress since then. Charlton legend, no doubt.
Steve Brown 283. (legend no) Jon Fortune 216 ( scored a legendary goal not a legend) Matt Holland 215( no) Johnnie Jackson 200 ( not yet Imo) Dean Kiely 248 ( best keeper of the last 20 yrs legend or not) Mark Kinsella 226 ( yes led us through our greatest success) Radostin Kishishev 200 ( no) Shaun Newton 285 (no) Chris Powell 270 ( yes Imo for playing service and managerial success) John Robinson 382 ( I'd say yes tbh very influencial in our promotion and prem yrs) Richard Rufus 323 (Yes) Luke Young 208 (no)
Just goes to show 200 is a land mark and a real milestone but doesn't automatically make legendary status,
Dean Kiely Is a tougher question Imo, I'd like to say yes but legends should be a tough decision based on a critera that greater minds than mine can decide
I'd agree with Kinsella, Powell and Rufus, but Johnny Robinson, no way a legend.
Out of interest decided to try and find the squad list when he first joined - not sure how accurate this is but really shows how much the club has changed in the time he's been here - and he has been an integral part of our progress since then. Charlton legend, no doubt.
I like the fella I think he is a real asset to us and has achieved so much but surely to be a legend the bar has to be high
You can be a
Great cafc player ie Shaun Newton
An all time great ie Steve brown
A hall of fame ie Paul mortimer
Legend ie Clive mendonca
Jonny sits in the all time great or Hall of fame area
For example
Robbo scored a pen with a fracture in his leg, he cost next to nothing, and as the team and club grew so did JR in his quality and performance, to play over 350 games for us and to perform in the premier league in the way he did took Jr from Hall of fame to legend in my opinion based on the whole career that he was here for
Clive that hatrick That game it's a legends performance and history making performance
Legends should be saved for people like them, and the Jonny R status is one I could easily be convinced and converted on maybe it's not worthy of legend
Legend is bandied around too much. JJ isn't there yet in my opinion, and because of his advancing years unlikely to be, but he has been a loyal servant and deserves our utmost respect for always giving his all, being a good captain and, above all, like us, obviously loving the Club. I hope he stays beyond this season in some sort of coaching capacity and I hope one day he'll be back to manage us.
If the criteria is as high as some are making out then we haven't had a legend in about 15 years.
Johnnie Jackson will be remembered by people in years to come, especially those who are too young to remember the likes of Mendonca, Kinsella etc. I'd also say the same about Kermorgant.
People were calling David Whyte a legend when he passed away last year. Jackson has done more than enough to warrant being in the same bracket.
I would say your right Tom in the last 15 yrs with the exception of Chris Powell I don't think we have had one
With David Whyte it was more to do with the tragic and far too soon taking away of his life, that evoked memories of the not so many that used to go to games in thar era to recall and rejoice in his brilliance
He was a truly amazing player and had he still been alive I don't think would make the legend list for me, but due to his young death in relative terms he made it on there
Legend is the highest honour to be bestowed on a player in my book and as such it shouldn't be handed out easily
Thing is though NLA, the game has changed in that space of 10-15 years where we are highly unlikely to get anyone who sticks around long enough to be a legend. Clubs like ours' don't have enough success to produce them regularly, which is why I think the bar doesn't need to be so high.
On a side note, I noticed that Johnnie Jackson recently tweeted that he would love to be manager of Charlton one day. Would be great to have someone like him in the hot seat one day - as a character he seems made for it.
I dunno I think jonnie is not far from being a legend just not there yet, Jordan cousins if he sees the contract out definitely has the makings of a future captain and with the right squad around him and a bit of fortune with a promotion to the top tier and us maintaining that status, who knows
Jonnie as Mgr would be a great call one day
Legends shouldn't come around every season or few seasons they should be saved for real achievement and efforts that separate them from others
I think the only thing stopping people considering Jacko a legend is the level we've been at while he's been with us. I think that the opposite it true though. Jackson's stuck with Charlton during one of the most difficult and bizarre times in our club's history. In that time he was signed on loan by Parky as an emergency left back where he performed well, signed permanently to play left midfield where he started scoring a ludicrous number of goals for a midfielder. He captained a team of entirely new arrivals under Powell and led us to the title with our highest ever points total, scoring 13 goals including consecutive free kicks against the Sheffield teams. He was also instrumental in bringing a feel-good factor back to the club and helping fans feel connected to the players again.
He then dragged the team through difficult times in our first season back in the Championship when all the money suddenly vanished, including games that will never leave my memory like the 5-4 against Cardiff and the incredible New Year's Day 4-3 against Watford. Both of those results were achieved because of Jackson's goals, but also his sheer force of personality. The next season there was the Ipswich leveller and the last minute winner against QPR. The best thing is all those goals clearly meant just as much to him as they did to us.
Add to that his attitude towards the fans during and after games, him buying a round for everyone on the train after Sheffield Wednesday, asking the fans what the other scores were during the Carlisle match, spending the entire day speaking to fans on Twitter after the Sheffield United cup debacle, helping everyone keep moving forward despite the many changes in ownership and management. When you look back in this period he'll be the constant and the face people remember. I've probably forgotten stuff as well. Not sure what else a player can do to be considered a legend but it can't be much more than that.
Comments
What is truly remarkable that he is the only one on the list who has never played a match as a forward. All of the others have. It is also pretty impressive that his games per goal ratio is 9th best on the list. I understand the argument about devaluing words like legend through overuse but really, if the bar is set much higher then we'll never call anyone a legend again. Johnnie is only 16 games, 3 goals and an FA Cup victory away from Don Welsh's record. Let's hope he achieves that this season.
He may be much admired, much loved, a stalwart, a great captain etc, but not a legend.
To be a legend, you have to virtually have 100% love and admiration from the fans. No dissenters.
Killer, Mendonca, Rufus & Kinsella come to mind.
Johnnie has far too many detractors (justified or not). Blimey there's a substantial minority who don't even think he's warranted a place in the team for 3 years.
Johnnie Jackson Charlton Athletic legend 100%
Steve Brown 283
Jon Fortune 216
Matt Holland 215
Johnnie Jackson 200
Dean Kiely 248
Mark Kinsella 226
Radostin Kishishev 200
Shaun Newton 285
Chris Powell 270
John Robinson 382
Richard Rufus 323
Luke Young 208
Solly (171) and Cousins (96) the next 2 possibles.
12 players in the last 15 1/2 years. Not many players hang around for too long at Charlton. Fair play to Jacko and hopefully we will see the likes of Bauer and Gudmundsson on that list in 5/6 years time.
Legend is a hard word to define, Gritty is a Charlton legend, but an average player. The likes of Costa and Simonsen are legends, but hardly played for us
Steve Brown 283. (legend no)
Jon Fortune 216 ( scored a legendary goal not a legend)
Matt Holland 215( no)
Johnnie Jackson 200 ( not yet Imo)
Dean Kiely 248 ( best keeper of the last 20 yrs legend or not)
Mark Kinsella 226 ( yes led us through our greatest success)
Radostin Kishishev 200 ( no)
Shaun Newton 285 (no)
Chris Powell 270 ( yes Imo for playing service and managerial success)
John Robinson 382 ( I'd say yes tbh very influencial in our promotion and prem yrs)
Richard Rufus 323 (Yes)
Luke Young 208 (no)
Just goes to show 200 is a land mark and a real milestone but doesn't automatically make legendary status,
Dean Kiely Is a tougher question Imo, I'd like to say yes but legends should be a tough decision based on a critera that greater minds than mine can decide
http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/charlton-athletic/2011/2/
----------- Elliot
Richardson Dailly S.Sodje Basey
---Sam Semedo Racon Bailey
-------Burton A.Sodje
Substitutes
25 Randolph, 05 Llera, 16 Wagstaff, 20 Solly (^ Basey 3'), 24 Reid (^ Semedo 61'), 09 McKenzie, 23 Mooney (^ A Sodje 46')
And for his debut five days later (a 2-0 win at home to Yeovil):
------------Elliot
Richardson Dailly Llera Jackson
----Sam Racon Bailey Reid
-------Burton Mooney
Substitutes
25 Randolph, 06 Semedo (^ Racon 90'), 16 Wagstaff (^ Sam 76'), 18 S Sodje, 20 Solly, 09 McKenzie, 33 A Sodje
JJ wore no.37 that day!
Bartram
Peacock
Hewie
Smith (Norman)
Kinsey
Kiernan
Hales
Hurst (Gordon)
Flanagan
Leaburn
Leary
Berry (Les)
Gritt
Robinson (John)
Apologies if I've missed any! Done from memory as I've not got access to any references just now
You can be a
Great cafc player ie Shaun Newton
An all time great ie Steve brown
A hall of fame ie Paul mortimer
Legend ie Clive mendonca
Jonny sits in the all time great or Hall of fame area
For example
Robbo scored a pen with a fracture in his leg, he cost next to nothing, and as the team and club grew so did JR in his quality and performance, to play over 350 games for us and to perform in the premier league in the way he did took Jr from Hall of fame to legend in my opinion based on the whole career that he was here for
Clive that hatrick That game it's a legends performance and history making performance
Legends should be saved for people like them, and the Jonny R status is one I could easily be convinced and converted on maybe it's not worthy of legend
Jacko just isn't in that category yet for me
You have to remember he could have skipped off elsewhere at any point and in 2010/11 who would have blamed him
You also have to think
Destroyed the Sheffield teams back to back
QPR last minute
Never once rolled over in a Millwall game
He hasn't been to wembley with us nor has he played at the top table with us but he has been our glue and been our captain through our resurrection
Anyway, you missed just three, Bob Curtis, Phil Warman and Colin Powell.
"a person whose fame or notoriety makes him a source of exaggerated or romanticised tales or exploits"
on that basis we have quite a few legends
Johnnie Jackson will be remembered by people in years to come, especially those who are too young to remember the likes of Mendonca, Kinsella etc. I'd also say the same about Kermorgant.
People were calling David Whyte a legend when he passed away last year. Jackson has done more than enough to warrant being in the same bracket.
With David Whyte it was more to do with the tragic and far too soon taking away of his life, that evoked memories of the not so many that used to go to games in thar era to recall and rejoice in his brilliance
He was a truly amazing player and had he still been alive I don't think would make the legend list for me, but due to his young death in relative terms he made it on there
Legend is the highest honour to be bestowed on a player in my book and as such it shouldn't be handed out easily
On a side note, I noticed that Johnnie Jackson recently tweeted that he would love to be manager of Charlton one day. Would be great to have someone like him in the hot seat one day - as a character he seems made for it.
Jonnie as Mgr would be a great call one day
Legends shouldn't come around every season or few seasons they should be saved for real achievement and efforts that separate them from others
The free kicks against the Sheffields
The last minute winner vs QPR
Pulling us back against Cardiff
I hope he can give us a few more before the end of the season
He then dragged the team through difficult times in our first season back in the Championship when all the money suddenly vanished, including games that will never leave my memory like the 5-4 against Cardiff and the incredible New Year's Day 4-3 against Watford. Both of those results were achieved because of Jackson's goals, but also his sheer force of personality. The next season there was the Ipswich leveller and the last minute winner against QPR. The best thing is all those goals clearly meant just as much to him as they did to us.
Add to that his attitude towards the fans during and after games, him buying a round for everyone on the train after Sheffield Wednesday, asking the fans what the other scores were during the Carlisle match, spending the entire day speaking to fans on Twitter after the Sheffield United cup debacle, helping everyone keep moving forward despite the many changes in ownership and management. When you look back in this period he'll be the constant and the face people remember. I've probably forgotten stuff as well. Not sure what else a player can do to be considered a legend but it can't be much more than that.