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Crossrail
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What you are describing is not cannibalisation. That’s a perjorative word that implies unintended consequences. AFAIK it is actually the provision of much needed greater capacity overall on the TFL network. Crossrail has clearly relieved pressure on some Tube lines that were by all accounts unbearable for passengers, especially the Central line.MrOneLung said:Have said it before, the figures are not as impressive as initially sound as they have just cannibalised from other lines.For example might be say 1m journeys between the Essex stations and Liverpool Street but those million journeys were already there and being done down the same line via the existing trains companiesHave also lost the semi fast services from romford to London, now all the trains are stopping every station thru to Stratford.Are you basing your view of this on some numbers, or just your personal observation of the situation on the routes you travel?2 -
Lizzy line was completely ballsed up last night.
The huge amount of people then queuing up to get into the Circle/met/h&c line side of farringdon station as I was walking out of it at around 6pm was something i've never seen before. There were hundreds. Liverpool st and moorgate platforms also at least 10 deep end to end.
Quite astounding that a line that didn't exist 2 years ago has accumulated so many users in such a short space of time and when it does go tits the lines that were originally used to ferry them about cannot cope.4 -
Not much comfort but re my post above, that is anecdotal evidence that certainly more people are using rail transport for journeys in this area than before, and that's exactly the objective. Modal shift.carly burn said:Lizzy line was completely ballsed up last night.
The huge amount of people then queuing up to get into the Circle/met/h&c line side of farringdon station as I was walking out of it at around 6pm was something i've never seen before. There were hundreds. Liverpool st and moorgate platforms also at least 10 deep end to end.
Quite astounding that a line that didn't exist 2 years ago has accumulated so many users in such a short space of time and when it does go tits the lines that were originally used to ferry them about cannot cope.3 -
Unlike southeastern the Elizabeth Line managers (TFL) cannot blame National Rail when things go wrong on the southern section of the line, but to take two days to fix a problem. TFL has a lot of explaining to do.1
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Just my observations PraguePragueAddick said:
What you are describing is not cannibalisation. That’s a perjorative word that implies unintended consequences. AFAIK it is actually the provision of much needed greater capacity overall on the TFL network. Crossrail has clearly relieved pressure on some Tube lines that were by all accounts unbearable for passengers, especially the Central line.MrOneLung said:Have said it before, the figures are not as impressive as initially sound as they have just cannibalised from other lines.For example might be say 1m journeys between the Essex stations and Liverpool Street but those million journeys were already there and being done down the same line via the existing trains companiesHave also lost the semi fast services from romford to London, now all the trains are stopping every station thru to Stratford.Are you basing your view of this on some numbers, or just your personal observation of the situation on the routes you travel?
I either get the central line (from Hainault) into town for work or occasionally the Lizzie Line from Romford
I am just saying the majority of people getting the train at Romford are getting off at Stratford or Liverpool street, just like they did before on the Greater Anglia services, but without the benefit of having the semi fast services we used to have. Obviously if you want to go to Heathrow or Tottenham Court Road it is handier, but I would guess the majority of journeys are the same journeys as before the Lizzie Line was there0 -
Is the Liz line now operational from Abbey Wood?0
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Yes, with delays.bolloxbolder said:Is the Liz line now operational from Abbey Wood?
https://tfl.gov.uk/tube-dlr-overground/status/#line-elizabeth0 -
I think I can partially explain the loss of “semi-fast” trains, which is a global thing. You’re younger than me (most people are🤣) but probs still old enough to grow up with the perception that if your stop is served by faster trains while others are not, it says that your place is somehow more important. But expresses in the past were limited stop because accelerating was slow and burned up energy. Modern trains accelerate much faster with less effort, and designed to get passengers on and off quicker. So they can stop in more stations and thus increase revenue. This btw is true even more for long distance trains. The faster the train the longer the free space in front needed for emergency stop. But they can run closer together if they all run at the same speed. That’s why there are dedicated high speed lines, separate them from the slow stuff. So on suburban lines the trend is for more uniform timetables, so they all run at the same speed at the same time each hour. More like the Tube/Metro networks.MrOneLung said:
Just my observations PraguePragueAddick said:
What you are describing is not cannibalisation. That’s a perjorative word that implies unintended consequences. AFAIK it is actually the provision of much needed greater capacity overall on the TFL network. Crossrail has clearly relieved pressure on some Tube lines that were by all accounts unbearable for passengers, especially the Central line.MrOneLung said:Have said it before, the figures are not as impressive as initially sound as they have just cannibalised from other lines.For example might be say 1m journeys between the Essex stations and Liverpool Street but those million journeys were already there and being done down the same line via the existing trains companiesHave also lost the semi fast services from romford to London, now all the trains are stopping every station thru to Stratford.Are you basing your view of this on some numbers, or just your personal observation of the situation on the routes you travel?
I either get the central line (from Hainault) into town for work or occasionally the Lizzie Line from Romford
I am just saying the majority of people getting the train at Romford are getting off at Stratford or Liverpool street, just like they did before on the Greater Anglia services, but without the benefit of having the semi fast services we used to have. Obviously if you want to go to Heathrow or Tottenham Court Road it is handier, but I would guess the majority of journeys are the same journeys as before the Lizzie Line was thereI only got to really understand this myself in the last year, due to my post retirement project, some people here may correct some aspects of what I wrote.2 -
Thanks as ever, Clive0
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We were on a team bonding event at work earlier in the year and most of us used Farringdon Station to get home. Could not believe my eyse, last time I worked near there, Farringson station was old, with a dusty old road with down and outs etc. Was pleasantly surprised how much the area has changed. a few of us were going to East Croydon, Eltham, New Eltham and Greenwich. I had literally missed a direct train to Greenwich from Farringdon 15 minutes before. (2 hours prior in a pub when we were working out how to get home, I was quitly confident telling people, yep. Tube from Farringdon to Moorgate and then Northern Line from Moorgate to London Bridge. We all change at London Bridge). How wrong was i?1
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I've been working in Farringdon for just under 10years and you're right the area has changed quite dramatically during that time.Rudders22 said:We were on a team bonding event at work earlier in the year and most of us used Farringdon Station to get home. Could not believe my eyse, last time I worked near there, Farringson station was old, with a dusty old road with down and outs etc. Was pleasantly surprised how much the area has changed. a few of us were going to East Croydon, Eltham, New Eltham and Greenwich. I had literally missed a direct train to Greenwich from Farringdon 15 minutes before. (2 hours prior in a pub when we were working out how to get home, I was quitly confident telling people, yep. Tube from Farringdon to Moorgate and then Northern Line from Moorgate to London Bridge. We all change at London Bridge). How wrong was i?
I should add that the biggest change is yet to come. That will be when The C.O.L finally get the meat traders at the market to sling their hooks!0 -
Network Rail manages all of the signalling system.Dansk_Red said:Unlike southeastern the Elizabeth Line managers (TFL) cannot blame National Rail when things go wrong on the southern section of the line, but to take two days to fix a problem. TFL has a lot of explaining to do.0 -
The thing was held up for literally years due to the complexity of the operating and signalling system install.
This was always going to happen when it inevitably went tits!1 -
The Elizabeth line has carried more than 500m passengers since it opened two-and-a-half years ago.
The landmark figure was announced on Friday alongside research revealing how the £20bn line has boosted housing and employment across the wider South-East as it has become the best-used rail line in the country.
Transport for London said the “Lizzie line” had the highest customer satisfaction level of all its modes of transport, and consistently scored more than 80 per cent approval rating.
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More reasons why Crossrail two should already being built. Build good quality transport and people will
use it5 -
Would that be north to south?Rothko said:More reasons why Crossrail two should already being built. Build good quality transport and people will
use it0 -
Yeah, NE London to SWguinnessaddick said:
Would that be north to south?Rothko said:More reasons why Crossrail two should already being built. Build good quality transport and people will
use it
https://crossrail2.co.uk/route/route-map/0 -
And extend the Bakerloo Line to Lewisham.5
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It's natural end should be out at Ebbsfleet via Dartford.4
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Very interesting, thanks for posting Clive. I'd urge anyone to read it. Scandalous waste by Peabody in a housing and renting crisis.clive said:
"One reason the numbers for new homes near Abbey Wood are apparently “high” [...] is because data ignored homes Peabody have demolished but are yet to rebuild."
Also
"Of the almost 6,000 homes announced in a Housing Zone announcement a decade ago Peabody have completed less than 600."3 -
I'm actually quite shocked by that. Why haven't Peabody built the houses they've got the permission to build?swords_alive said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting Clive. I'd urge anyone to read it. Scandalous waste by Peabody in a housing and renting crisis.clive said:
"One reason the numbers for new homes near Abbey Wood are apparently “high” [...] is because data ignored homes Peabody have demolished but are yet to rebuild."
Also
"Of the almost 6,000 homes announced in a Housing Zone announcement a decade ago Peabody have completed less than 600."
I fully understand why a commercial developer might want to sit on some land and drip feed properties onto the market. Their "job" and purpose in life is to make money for their shareholders.
But Peabody is a not-for-profit housing association. Their "job" is to provide housing and that's it - which they are clearly not doing here. If it's a question of finance then they need to step aside and let another housing association do the job properly for them.
All very strange. Has anybody got any insights on this?3 -
No particular insight (except for an interview about 6 years ago i prepared for and failed in) but long had a suspicion that they do not have the social ethic they like to claim. Their annual report makes no mention of Abbey wood but does show the executive team are on £290,000 - £410,000 each per annum (page 82). https://www.peabodygroup.org.uk/investors/our-financials/
Peabody took on Thamesmead in 2014 with a takeover of Gallions. Seems they are effectively a massive housing association and landlord for Thamesmead. (Summary here - https://www.ribaj.com/intelligence/reviving-a-60s-new-town-peabody-thamesmead-london.
They published their plans for Thamesmead in 2018 and produced a report last year summarising their work to date and plans for the future:
https://www.peabodygroup.org.uk/media-centre/news/thamesmead-news/looking-after-thamesmead/
On page 12 of their report they mention phase 1 of 7 completed and claim "Work is now underway on the second phase of development, next to phase one, to deliver a further 329 new homes." No other explanation to contest murkydepths narrative is apparent but I have only given it a skim read.
Property all over South and central England I think, selling new builds at very high prices to help fund the shared ownership model that must help sustain the organisation and the enormous salaries. I think they need more scrutiny but could be a long while coming.
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Elizabeth line train caught at double speed limit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg452w2x5k5o0 -
Brilliant !clive said:Elizabeth line train caught at double speed limit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg452w2x5k5o
That's a rarity going too fast I imagine.0 -
Going far too quick.clive said:Elizabeth line train caught at double speed limit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg452w2x5k5o
I didn't even get a chance to write the number down!11 -
Off_it said:
I'm actually quite shocked by that. Why haven't Peabody built the houses they've got the permission to build?swords_alive said:
Very interesting, thanks for posting Clive. I'd urge anyone to read it. Scandalous waste by Peabody in a housing and renting crisis.clive said:
"One reason the numbers for new homes near Abbey Wood are apparently “high” [...] is because data ignored homes Peabody have demolished but are yet to rebuild."
Also
"Of the almost 6,000 homes announced in a Housing Zone announcement a decade ago Peabody have completed less than 600."
I fully understand why a commercial developer might want to sit on some land and drip feed properties onto the market. Their "job" and purpose in life is to make money for their shareholders.
But Peabody is a not-for-profit housing association. Their "job" is to provide housing and that's it - which they are clearly not doing here. If it's a question of finance then they need to step aside and let another housing association do the job properly for them.
All very strange. Has anybody got any insights on this?swords_alive said:No particular insight (except for an interview about 6 years ago i prepared for and failed in) but long had a suspicion that they do not have the social ethic they like to claim. Their annual report makes no mention of Abbey wood but does show the executive team are on £290,000 - £410,000 each per annum (page 82). https://www.peabodygroup.org.uk/investors/our-financials/
Peabody took on Thamesmead in 2014 with a takeover of Gallions. Seems they are effectively a massive housing association and landlord for Thamesmead. (Summary here - https://www.ribaj.com/intelligence/reviving-a-60s-new-town-peabody-thamesmead-london.
They published their plans for Thamesmead in 2018 and produced a report last year summarising their work to date and plans for the future:
https://www.peabodygroup.org.uk/media-centre/news/thamesmead-news/looking-after-thamesmead/
On page 12 of their report they mention phase 1 of 7 completed and claim "Work is now underway on the second phase of development, next to phase one, to deliver a further 329 new homes." No other explanation to contest murkydepths narrative is apparent but I have only given it a skim read.
Property all over South and central England I think, selling new builds at very high prices to help fund the shared ownership model that must help sustain the organisation and the enormous salaries. I think they need more scrutiny but could be a long while coming.Another failure: Planning lapses at Peabody site seconds from Elizabeth line station
https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2025/02/10/another-failure-planning-lapses-at-peabody-site-seconds-from-elizabeth-line-station/0 -
Train drivers on London's Elizabeth Line are to stage a series of strikes in a dispute over pay with their employer MTR, their union Aslef has announced.
Almost 500 drivers will walk out on 27 February and on 1, 8 and 10 March.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6n8z6z2do
1/3/25 Orient [a]
8/2/25 Stockport [a]
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Do the trains effectively drive themselves on the middle section through central London?clive said:Train drivers on London's Elizabeth Line are to stage a series of strikes in a dispute over pay with their employer MTR, their union Aslef has announced.
Almost 500 drivers will walk out on 27 February and on 1, 8 and 10 March.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y6n8z6z2do
1/3/25 Orient [a]
8/2/25 Stockport [a]
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