Have said it before, the figures are not as impressive as initially sound as they have just cannibalised from other lines.
For example might be say 1m journeys between the Essex stations and Liverpool Street but those million journeys were already there and being done down the same line via the existing trains companies
Have also lost the semi fast services from romford to London, now all the trains are stopping every station thru to Stratford.
What you are describing is not cannibalisation. That’s a perjorative word that implies unintended consequences. AFAIK it is actually the provision of much needed greater capacity overall on the TFL network. Crossrail has clearly relieved pressure on some Tube lines that were by all accounts unbearable for passengers, especially the Central line.
Are you basing your view of this on some numbers, or just your personal observation of the situation on the routes you travel?
Lizzy line was completely ballsed up last night. The huge amount of people then queuing up to get into the Circle/met/h&c line side of farringdon station as I was walking out of it at around 6pm was something i've never seen before. There were hundreds. Liverpool st and moorgate platforms also at least 10 deep end to end. Quite astounding that a line that didn't exist 2 years ago has accumulated so many users in such a short space of time and when it does go tits the lines that were originally used to ferry them about cannot cope.
Lizzy line was completely ballsed up last night. The huge amount of people then queuing up to get into the Circle/met/h&c line side of farringdon station as I was walking out of it at around 6pm was something i've never seen before. There were hundreds. Liverpool st and moorgate platforms also at least 10 deep end to end. Quite astounding that a line that didn't exist 2 years ago has accumulated so many users in such a short space of time and when it does go tits the lines that were originally used to ferry them about cannot cope.
Not much comfort but re my post above, that is anecdotal evidence that certainly more people are using rail transport for journeys in this area than before, and that's exactly the objective. Modal shift.
Unlike southeastern the Elizabeth Line managers (TFL) cannot blame National Rail when things go wrong on the southern section of the line, but to take two days to fix a problem. TFL has a lot of explaining to do.
Have said it before, the figures are not as impressive as initially sound as they have just cannibalised from other lines.
For example might be say 1m journeys between the Essex stations and Liverpool Street but those million journeys were already there and being done down the same line via the existing trains companies
Have also lost the semi fast services from romford to London, now all the trains are stopping every station thru to Stratford.
What you are describing is not cannibalisation. That’s a perjorative word that implies unintended consequences. AFAIK it is actually the provision of much needed greater capacity overall on the TFL network. Crossrail has clearly relieved pressure on some Tube lines that were by all accounts unbearable for passengers, especially the Central line.
Are you basing your view of this on some numbers, or just your personal observation of the situation on the routes you travel?
Just my observations Prague
I either get the central line (from Hainault) into town for work or occasionally the Lizzie Line from Romford
I am just saying the majority of people getting the train at Romford are getting off at Stratford or Liverpool street, just like they did before on the Greater Anglia services, but without the benefit of having the semi fast services we used to have. Obviously if you want to go to Heathrow or Tottenham Court Road it is handier, but I would guess the majority of journeys are the same journeys as before the Lizzie Line was there
Have said it before, the figures are not as impressive as initially sound as they have just cannibalised from other lines.
For example might be say 1m journeys between the Essex stations and Liverpool Street but those million journeys were already there and being done down the same line via the existing trains companies
Have also lost the semi fast services from romford to London, now all the trains are stopping every station thru to Stratford.
What you are describing is not cannibalisation. That’s a perjorative word that implies unintended consequences. AFAIK it is actually the provision of much needed greater capacity overall on the TFL network. Crossrail has clearly relieved pressure on some Tube lines that were by all accounts unbearable for passengers, especially the Central line.
Are you basing your view of this on some numbers, or just your personal observation of the situation on the routes you travel?
Just my observations Prague
I either get the central line (from Hainault) into town for work or occasionally the Lizzie Line from Romford
I am just saying the majority of people getting the train at Romford are getting off at Stratford or Liverpool street, just like they did before on the Greater Anglia services, but without the benefit of having the semi fast services we used to have. Obviously if you want to go to Heathrow or Tottenham Court Road it is handier, but I would guess the majority of journeys are the same journeys as before the Lizzie Line was there
I think I can partially explain the loss of “semi-fast” trains, which is a global thing. You’re younger than me (most people are🤣) but probs still old enough to grow up with the perception that if your stop is served by faster trains while others are not, it says that your place is somehow more important. But expresses in the past were limited stop because accelerating was slow and burned up energy. Modern trains accelerate much faster with less effort, and designed to get passengers on and off quicker. So they can stop in more stations and thus increase revenue. This btw is true even more for long distance trains. The faster the train the longer the free space in front needed for emergency stop. But they can run closer together if they all run at the same speed. That’s why there are dedicated high speed lines, separate them from the slow stuff. So on suburban lines the trend is for more uniform timetables, so they all run at the same speed at the same time each hour. More like the Tube/Metro networks.
I only got to really understand this myself in the last year, due to my post retirement project, some people here may correct some aspects of what I wrote.
We were on a team bonding event at work earlier in the year and most of us used Farringdon Station to get home. Could not believe my eyse, last time I worked near there, Farringson station was old, with a dusty old road with down and outs etc. Was pleasantly surprised how much the area has changed. a few of us were going to East Croydon, Eltham, New Eltham and Greenwich. I had literally missed a direct train to Greenwich from Farringdon 15 minutes before. (2 hours prior in a pub when we were working out how to get home, I was quitly confident telling people, yep. Tube from Farringdon to Moorgate and then Northern Line from Moorgate to London Bridge. We all change at London Bridge). How wrong was i?
We were on a team bonding event at work earlier in the year and most of us used Farringdon Station to get home. Could not believe my eyse, last time I worked near there, Farringson station was old, with a dusty old road with down and outs etc. Was pleasantly surprised how much the area has changed. a few of us were going to East Croydon, Eltham, New Eltham and Greenwich. I had literally missed a direct train to Greenwich from Farringdon 15 minutes before. (2 hours prior in a pub when we were working out how to get home, I was quitly confident telling people, yep. Tube from Farringdon to Moorgate and then Northern Line from Moorgate to London Bridge. We all change at London Bridge). How wrong was i?
I've been working in Farringdon for just under 10years and you're right the area has changed quite dramatically during that time. I should add that the biggest change is yet to come. That will be when The C.O.L finally get the meat traders at the market to sling their hooks!
Unlike southeastern the Elizabeth Line managers (TFL) cannot blame National Rail when things go wrong on the southern section of the line, but to take two days to fix a problem. TFL has a lot of explaining to do.
Network Rail manages all of the signalling system.
The thing was held up for literally years due to the complexity of the operating and signalling system install. This was always going to happen when it inevitably went tits!
Comments
The huge amount of people then queuing up to get into the Circle/met/h&c line side of farringdon station as I was walking out of it at around 6pm was something i've never seen before. There were hundreds. Liverpool st and moorgate platforms also at least 10 deep end to end.
Quite astounding that a line that didn't exist 2 years ago has accumulated so many users in such a short space of time and when it does go tits the lines that were originally used to ferry them about cannot cope.
I either get the central line (from Hainault) into town for work or occasionally the Lizzie Line from Romford
I am just saying the majority of people getting the train at Romford are getting off at Stratford or Liverpool street, just like they did before on the Greater Anglia services, but without the benefit of having the semi fast services we used to have. Obviously if you want to go to Heathrow or Tottenham Court Road it is handier, but I would guess the majority of journeys are the same journeys as before the Lizzie Line was there
https://tfl.gov.uk/tube-dlr-overground/status/#line-elizabeth
I should add that the biggest change is yet to come. That will be when The C.O.L finally get the meat traders at the market to sling their hooks!
This was always going to happen when it inevitably went tits!