A suicide attack on a mosque also happened today. Wonder what interpretation of Islam would've told them to do that?
It's not a religious issue.
Sunni's and Shia's have been murdering each other for hundreds of years. The interpretation is where the main issue lies between the two strains of the same faith.
It's very much a religious issue. I know it doesn't sit well with some but denying it only serves to cloud the issue.
As opposed to the peaceful white, Christian races ?
Haven't said that Christians aren't cut from the same cloth, have I?
You knew that anyway. Way before you pressed send you decided that you'd assume that was what I was implying as it would hopefully go unchallenged and would shoot the argument down
Oh, and for the record, what has being white got to do with it? We're talking about religions and faiths, not races. Religion spans all colours and creeds.
Charleston happened last week so I don't think the problem is as simple as you all think. Removing religion from the world won't make too much of an impact with these attacks, the problem is cultural not religious.
These "people" are not Muslim, although they'd call themselves that.
I hope you apply the same logic to us Millwall fans and the unsavoury element among us.
We may not want to acknowledge that these people are of the Islamic faith as it doesn't fit in with how we want to perceive the religion. Not least to protect the moderate and law abiding people that live in harmony alongside us. However, whether we like it or not, they are Islamic and no amount of distancing them from the faith will change that, unfortunately.
Let's not forget a lot of this anti west shit goes back to britains atrocious management of Palestine and the holy land over the last hundred years or so. We are as much to blame as a nation as the religion of Islam itself.
That is a massive insult to the Palestinian people and the very legitimate grievances they have over the way they have been effectively displaced from their own country. The Palestinian issue has absolutely nothing to do with the crisis the free world faces with this evil violent religion.
I'm sure we could all find something that could be deemed to insight hatred and violence in all of the 'handbooks'.
The simple fact is that there are vile bastards in this world who are prepared to do hateful things and then use any cock and bull reasoning (including religion) as the motive.
Humans have been killing other humans ever since we finished off the last of the Neanderthals. And sadly, they probably always will. Ban religion and they'll find another excuse easily enough.
Story earlier in the week that some of these maniacs used the strike at Calais to get into the UK.
It's already happened here sadly, with the Lee Rigby situation.
Yup, sure has, all extremely worrying nonetheless.
Weirdly, I don't find myself that worried by it.
Of course it would be horrendous if it does happen again, but I don't let myself worry about it to much because that's what the nutters want.
Just get on with day to day life whilst being vigilant, but don't let it worry you!
I've never felt personally unsafe, just through the laws of probability. I was at college in town during the IRA bombing campaign, I was vigilante but not worried. I rationalised the 7/7 bombings that there were 3 million commuters in London that day, the chance of being one of the 800 is still really low. Its a bugger if you are part of that percentage but not something you can do about or should lose sleep about.
I've never been too worried about it, it's been on my radar but I worry much more deeply about the long term consequences of the current instability. That, for me, is where the real damage will be done.
However, having recently remembered where one of the 7/7 bombs happened, that it's coming up to the tenth anniversary whilst falling within Ramadan, and realising I use that bit of line twice a day (and probably type this sitting somewhere above it..) I have been pretty nervey on the tube. It'll pass, but reading some of the articles on The Guardian recently regarding victim interviews has been pretty vivid.
Charleston happened last week so I don't think the problem is as simple as you all think. Removing religion from the world won't make too much of an impact with these attacks, the problem is cultural not religious.
These "people" are not Muslim, although they'd call themselves that.
I hope you apply the same logic to us Millwall fans and the unsavoury element among us.
We may not want to acknowledge that these people are of the Islamic faith as it doesn't fit in with how we want to perceive the religion. Not least to protect the moderate and law abiding people that live in harmony alongside us. However, whether we like it or not, they are Islamic and no amount of distancing them from the faith will change that, unfortunately.
And they are a tiny tiny minority in the billions of Muslims around the world.
They are also only using Islam as a reason to inflict misery on other people. As I said, it's Ramadan, Muslims should be fasting and going to the mosque etc (although my knowledge of Ramadan is incredibly limited, please correct me on this). Not beheading and blowing up a mosque as they have done in Kuwait today as well.
That Charlestown nutter used his race as justification for shooting people. Are we going to have to tell all white people that they should make extra effort to condemn the shootings? No.
I'm not going to change my opinion on Islam because of one or two nut cases that want me dead.
Let's not forget a lot of this anti west shit goes back to britains atrocious management of Palestine and the holy land over the last hundred years or so. We are as much to blame as a nation as the religion of Islam itself.
Your last paragraph, for me, undoes your argument above it.
Wow. Seems it's always somebody else's fault.
Islam is all about interpretation. Not all Muslims fast. Just the same as not all Muslims abstain from drinking alcohol.
I work with many Muslims and one of the guys polished off three bags of pistachio nuts yesterday and, when pulled up on it, simply said "nuts don't count" with a massive grin on his face.
Spot on; I agreed completely until I read the last paragraph. To blame this current situation on our conduct for the past 100 years is a harmful mentality that ensures things are never addressed.
The biggest threat in this country comes from within; homegrown members of these organisations. They are as British as you and I (presumably) and would be part of the very system they're trying to blow to bits.
Maybe we've been to blame within the last decade with the way we withdrew from Iraq and not foreseeing the imminent collapse. Perhaps we've backed the wrong sides in Libya and Syria too. Maybe we can take some blame there. Even that doesn't get to the root of the problem though; the problems effecting the Middle East can't all be externalized and blamed on the West - let's not forget they're quite content killing and maiming eachother, we're not their only target.
A suicide attack on a mosque also happened today. Wonder what interpretation of Islam would've told them to do that?
It's not a religious issue.
Sunni's and Shia's have been murdering each other for hundreds of years. The interpretation is where the main issue lies between the two strains of the same faith.
It's very much a religious issue. I know it doesn't sit well with some but denying it is only exasperating the issue.
"What role has sectarianism played in recent crises?
In countries that have been governed by Sunnis, Shia tend to make up the poorest sections of society. They often see themselves as victims of discrimination and oppression. Some extremist Sunni doctrines have preached hatred of Shia.
The Iranian revolution of 1979 launched a radical Shia Islamist agenda that was perceived as a challenge to conservative Sunni regimes, particularly in the Gulf.
Tehran's policy of supporting Shia militias and parties beyond its borders was matched by the Gulf states, which strengthened their links to Sunni governments and movements abroad.
Discontent among the Shia has fuelled street protests in Bahrain
During the civil war in Lebanon, Shia gained a strong political voice because of the military activities of Hezbollah.
In Pakistan and Afghanistan, hardline Sunni militant groups - such as the Taliban - have often attacked Shia places of worship.
The current conflicts in Iraq and Syria have also acquired strong sectarian overtones. Young Sunni men in both countries have joined rebel groups, many of which echo the hardline ideology of al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile, many of their counterparts from the Shia community have been fighting for - or alongside - government forces."
If you think the violence that has occurred is due to the difference in religions and not the cultural make-up of the two sects you're wrong. It's like painting the IRA/England violence as a religious issue.
How on earth have you turned that quote around to say it's not a religious issue?! It even mentioned "extremist Sunni doctrines have preached hatred of Shia".
The very same source, the BBC, also tells quite a different story in another article:
For example, there are festivals which Sunnis and Shias do not celebrate in the same way, such as Ashura. For Shias, Ashura is a day of mourning which commemorates the martyrdom of the Imam al-Husayn. This is considered to be the defining event in Shia history. But for Sunnis, Ashura is a fasting day to remember the day Nuh (Noah) left the ark and the day that Musa (Moses) was saved from the Egyptians by Allah. For centuries, there were only occasional instances where religious intolerance on both sides led to conflict.
There are fundamental differences between the two, and it is a religious issue because the tension can be directly attributed to one thing: their different interpretations of their religion.
You may well be correct in saying it's the cultural make-up that's provided a source of conflict, but what are the defining features of those who make up that culture? How they define their religion.
The attitudes they hold against eachother and the relative privileges that they have enjoyed (or not) may complicate the issue, but let's not get away from the fact that one group has been preventing the other from having those privileges because they do not agree on the interpretation of their religion.
Thing is they can all claim somehow or another to be part of ISIS. It's like franchising a McDonalds - you just sort say you're part of it and then you are, even if head office didn't tell you exactly what to do etc
Thing is they can all claim somehow or another to be part of ISIS. It's like franchising a McDonalds - you just sort say you're part of it and then you are, even if head office didn't tell you exactly what to do etc
That's an interesting observation, and presumably anyone who believes in the Caliphate are well within their rights to say they're doing it in the name of ISIS.
I'm not sure whether that's more terrifying though! Whilst it's pretty good to know that the "ISIS umbrella" includes the obvious 'lone wolf nutter' types, meaning that they're not all well equipped and battle hardened... On the other hand, it does also lead to the suggestion that they can be absolutely anywhere and anyone; kinda like McDonalds as you say.
Charleston happened last week so I don't think the problem is as simple as you all think. Removing religion from the world won't make too much of an impact with these attacks, the problem is cultural not religious.
These "people" are not Muslim, although they'd call themselves that.
I hope you apply the same logic to us Millwall fans and the unsavoury element among us.
We may not want to acknowledge that these people are of the Islamic faith as it doesn't fit in with how we want to perceive the religion. Not least to protect the moderate and law abiding people that live in harmony alongside us. However, whether we like it or not, they are Islamic and no amount of distancing them from the faith will change that, unfortunately.
And they are a tiny tiny minority in the billions of Muslims around the world.
They are also only using Islam as a reason to inflict misery on other people. As I said, it's Ramadan, Muslims should be fasting and going to the mosque etc (although my knowledge of Ramadan is incredibly limited, please correct me on this). Not beheading and blowing up a mosque as they have done in Kuwait today as well.
That Charlestown nutter used his race as justification for shooting people. Are we going to have to tell all white people that they should make extra effort to condemn the shootings? No.
I'm not going to change my opinion on Islam because of one or two nut cases that want me dead.
Let's not forget a lot of this anti west shit goes back to britains atrocious management of Palestine and the holy land over the last hundred years or so. We are as much to blame as a nation as the religion of Islam itself.
I might've known that someone would blame us. Unbelievable.
Charleston happened last week so I don't think the problem is as simple as you all think. Removing religion from the world won't make too much of an impact with these attacks, the problem is cultural not religious.
These "people" are not Muslim, although they'd call themselves that.
I hope you apply the same logic to us Millwall fans and the unsavoury element among us.
We may not want to acknowledge that these people are of the Islamic faith as it doesn't fit in with how we want to perceive the religion. Not least to protect the moderate and law abiding people that live in harmony alongside us. However, whether we like it or not, they are Islamic and no amount of distancing them from the faith will change that, unfortunately.
And they are a tiny tiny minority in the billions of Muslims around the world.
They are also only using Islam as a reason to inflict misery on other people. As I said, it's Ramadan, Muslims should be fasting and going to the mosque etc (although my knowledge of Ramadan is incredibly limited, please correct me on this). Not beheading and blowing up a mosque as they have done in Kuwait today as well.
That Charlestown nutter used his race as justification for shooting people. Are we going to have to tell all white people that they should make extra effort to condemn the shootings? No.
I'm not going to change my opinion on Islam because of one or two nut cases that want me dead.
Let's not forget a lot of this anti west shit goes back to britains atrocious management of Palestine and the holy land over the last hundred years or so. We are as much to blame as a nation as the religion of Islam itself.
I might've known that someone would blame us. Unbelievable.
I am worried that IS will get access to Nuclear Weapons some time in the future.
I'm not worried by the thought of any terrorist group getting access to nuclear weapons. Whilst it would be dreadful if they did, they aren't going to be able to make them themselves, which means they'd have to buy them or steal them. Neither option is very likely. Chemical or biological terrorism, or a dirty bomb, which isn't a nuclear weapon as such, are far more likely. I can't affect the likelihood of any of those happening, however, so I don't worry about them.
A suicide attack on a mosque also happened today. Wonder what interpretation of Islam would've told them to do that?
It's not a religious issue.
Sunni's and Shia's have been murdering each other for hundreds of years. The interpretation is where the main issue lies between the two strains of the same faith.
It's very much a religious issue. I know it doesn't sit well with some but denying it is only exasperating the issue.
"What role has sectarianism played in recent crises?
In countries that have been governed by Sunnis, Shia tend to make up the poorest sections of society. They often see themselves as victims of discrimination and oppression. Some extremist Sunni doctrines have preached hatred of Shia.
The Iranian revolution of 1979 launched a radical Shia Islamist agenda that was perceived as a challenge to conservative Sunni regimes, particularly in the Gulf.
Tehran's policy of supporting Shia militias and parties beyond its borders was matched by the Gulf states, which strengthened their links to Sunni governments and movements abroad.
Discontent among the Shia has fuelled street protests in Bahrain
During the civil war in Lebanon, Shia gained a strong political voice because of the military activities of Hezbollah.
In Pakistan and Afghanistan, hardline Sunni militant groups - such as the Taliban - have often attacked Shia places of worship.
The current conflicts in Iraq and Syria have also acquired strong sectarian overtones. Young Sunni men in both countries have joined rebel groups, many of which echo the hardline ideology of al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile, many of their counterparts from the Shia community have been fighting for - or alongside - government forces."
If you think the violence that has occurred is due to the difference in religions and not the cultural make-up of the two sects you're wrong. It's like painting the IRA/England violence as a religious issue.
The origin of the IRA's cause was most definitely religious, in that the C of E English repressed the papist Irish.
Not disputing the origin of both conflicts are religious. Just think they've both evolved beyond that point and are now political and cultural ones.
The attacks of ISIS are not religious in nature but political. They hide behind a shroud of religion but their main aim is power across the entire middle east.
We can defend the droves of muslims who live their lives not murdering us (nice of them isn't it?) but that poll at the beginning of this year that concluded that 27% of muslims sympathised with the Charlie Hebdo murderers shows that the evil of Islam is not reduced to a tiny percentage of muslims.
I am worried that IS will get access to Nuclear Weapons some time in the future.
I think it's now very obvious that IS have to be stopped. We have been pussyfooting around the issue and they continue to grow.
If not now IS are going to become a very real threat to our way of life.
Time for boots on the ground. Lack of action now will mean a need for greater action further down the line.
IS are not going away.
but whose boots though? as someone mentioned earlier ISIS are a tiny minority of muslims so why don't the millions of other muslims sort them out.
It's a good point but a Muslim coalition against IS just doesn't seem likely. The consequences of a western force going into battle are probably dire but IS can't be allowed to spread and grow throughout the Middle East. Unchecked I can see any number of countries falling. A caliphate gaining in strength and numbers year on year is unthinkable.
We can defend the droves of muslims who live their lives not murdering us (nice of them isn't it?) but that poll at the beginning of this year that concluded that 27% of muslims sympathised with the Charlie Hebdo murderers shows that the evil of Islam is not reduced to a tiny percentage of muslims.</blockquote
Sadly true. The scales fell from the eyes of this once idealistic individual not long after I started working in an area with a very high proportion of muslims - being asked by one female muslim who had recently arrived from another European country and was the victim of vicious bullying for the 'crime' of having a white mother (who had, naturally, had to convert to islam, but was still labelled a 'white whore') 'why do they hate you so much?' ('you', she explained, meant the white indigenous population; 'they' were the local muslim Pakistani population). It was not like this in the country that she came from, apparently, but here the indigenous natives are seen as sub-human and despised by many of her faith. She could not understand this. I sadly do now.
So many more stories I could tell, but it's just too depressing and it's too late for anything to be done to change it anyway. This will not end well and the responsibility will fall at the feet of those who argue that 'it's our fault' because people we never knew and who are long dead were involved in colonialism (which I am in no way defending). Thankfully, apologists for Islamism are thinner on the ground these days, even amongst the hard left, as even the thickest of them finally wake up and smell the coffee. But they've already done the damage through years of misplaced political correctness, woolly headed ideology, feel good self righteousness and censorship and I can't see anything else but bloodshed at the end of this particular road, sadly. What we are up against is fascism - nothing more, nothing less and the irony is that it is people who consider themselves its antithesis that are enabling and nurturing it.
A suicide attack on a mosque also happened today. Wonder what interpretation of Islam would've told them to do that?
It's not a religious issue.
Sunni's and Shia's have been murdering each other for hundreds of years. The interpretation is where the main issue lies between the two strains of the same faith.
It's very much a religious issue. I know it doesn't sit well with some but denying it is only exasperating the issue.
"What role has sectarianism played in recent crises?
In countries that have been governed by Sunnis, Shia tend to make up the poorest sections of society. They often see themselves as victims of discrimination and oppression. Some extremist Sunni doctrines have preached hatred of Shia.
The Iranian revolution of 1979 launched a radical Shia Islamist agenda that was perceived as a challenge to conservative Sunni regimes, particularly in the Gulf.
Tehran's policy of supporting Shia militias and parties beyond its borders was matched by the Gulf states, which strengthened their links to Sunni governments and movements abroad.
Discontent among the Shia has fuelled street protests in Bahrain
During the civil war in Lebanon, Shia gained a strong political voice because of the military activities of Hezbollah.
In Pakistan and Afghanistan, hardline Sunni militant groups - such as the Taliban - have often attacked Shia places of worship.
The current conflicts in Iraq and Syria have also acquired strong sectarian overtones. Young Sunni men in both countries have joined rebel groups, many of which echo the hardline ideology of al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile, many of their counterparts from the Shia community have been fighting for - or alongside - government forces."
If you think the violence that has occurred is due to the difference in religions and not the cultural make-up of the two sects you're wrong. It's like painting the IRA/England violence as a religious issue.
The origin of the IRA's cause was most definitely religious, in that the C of E English repressed the papist Irish.
It was most definitely not. If France had invaded England do you think our problem would be simply that they were catholic or the fact we would not want to be ruled by the French.
Would be quite interesting to hear more about the poll; not just sample size either.
Location would be interesting. I'm curious as to how views differ in locations where the Muslim community is more "integrated" (I hate that term).
For instance Whitechapel is somewhere I don't feel safe walking through and I feel there's been no attempt at integration; it also happens to be somewhere that there's been a lot of uproar over supposed "Muslim Patrols" and IS flags. Same goes for Luton.
Similarly what was the actual wording? If it was as simple as "Can you understand the reasoning behind the Charlie Hebdo attacks?" then I think we could all say yes. We understand that the attackers viewed CH as a legitimate target based on previous prints and comments published in CH and they used this to justify mass murder.
On the contrary, if it was "Do you support the actions of those responsible for the attack?" then those that do are simply garbage with no place in a modern society. Unfortunately there were TV interviews that showed sympathetic views but let's remember a bit of outrage is good for TV and for every good interview they may have had 20 bad ones..
Lastly, how was the survey delivered? Would I give my honest views to someone doing a survey if it was controversial and I had my mates with me? Probably not.
Northern Ireland was ethnic/cultural. Religion was a proxy that broadly signified the two cultures, but there were no theological debates about transubstantiation/consubstantiation.
IS appear to be a social/cultural movement. From the outside, the appeal seems to be the lifestyle rather than the devoutness of religion.
I believe it was an Ottoman Sultan who first provided the justification for Muslims to kill Muslims as he wanted to invade the Arabian peninsula. It was at a time that Istanbul was the centre of Islam and he argued/interpreted that the 'other' group (Sunni/Shia, not sure) were not really Muslim so there was no problem in conquering and killing them.
Sad news about all three attacks. Thoughts with the victims and their families.
I'm well and truly on my soapbox now; but forgive me because I'm on my commute home and barely past Denmark Hill. Ive browsed twitter and exhausted the newspaper.
I wouldnt want my comments about Luton and Whitechapel to come across as alarmist or dramatic, or even racist.
However I do feel these areas are the key to stopping homegrown extremism. Deal with the areas that have become "pockets of a far flung land" and ensure we never let them become that way again. They need to become British again because the members of those community, regardless of how it sounds, are actually British.
The land they walk on everyday and the system they use.. is British. By not confronting these areas we ARE ignoring what they're doing and that in itself leads to the feelings of disconnect. I can understand how someone who has grown up in these places can see themselves as Muslim above British; and this is our fault because we've let them grow up in to places we've neglected and allowed to become microsocieties.
It's brilliant that I can hear the call to prayers in some areas, but it's not brilliant that there are places I only feel safe with Asian friends.
Integration isn't invasion; nor is integration simply allowing the "right of self chosen segregation". We need to treat everyone the same and expect the same from everyone; cultural excuses shouldn't cut it.
Unfortunately I can't see a plausible way of doing this because I think it's gone too far.
Comments
You knew that anyway. Way before you pressed send you decided that you'd assume that was what I was implying as it would hopefully go unchallenged and would shoot the argument down
Oh, and for the record, what has being white got to do with it? We're talking about religions and faiths, not races. Religion spans all colours and creeds.
I'm sure we could all find something that could be deemed to insight hatred and violence in all of the 'handbooks'.
The simple fact is that there are vile bastards in this world who are prepared to do hateful things and then use any cock and bull reasoning (including religion) as the motive.
However, having recently remembered where one of the 7/7 bombs happened, that it's coming up to the tenth anniversary whilst falling within Ramadan, and realising I use that bit of line twice a day (and probably type this sitting somewhere above it..) I have been pretty nervey on the tube. It'll pass, but reading some of the articles on The Guardian recently regarding victim interviews has been pretty vivid. Spot on; I agreed completely until I read the last paragraph. To blame this current situation on our conduct for the past 100 years is a harmful mentality that ensures things are never addressed.
The biggest threat in this country comes from within; homegrown members of these organisations. They are as British as you and I (presumably) and would be part of the very system they're trying to blow to bits.
Maybe we've been to blame within the last decade with the way we withdrew from Iraq and not foreseeing the imminent collapse. Perhaps we've backed the wrong sides in Libya and Syria too. Maybe we can take some blame there. Even that doesn't get to the root of the problem though; the problems effecting the Middle East can't all be externalized and blamed on the West - let's not forget they're quite content killing and maiming eachother, we're not their only target.
The very same source, the BBC, also tells quite a different story in another article: There are fundamental differences between the two, and it is a religious issue because the tension can be directly attributed to one thing: their different interpretations of their religion.
You may well be correct in saying it's the cultural make-up that's provided a source of conflict, but what are the defining features of those who make up that culture? How they define their religion.
The attitudes they hold against eachother and the relative privileges that they have enjoyed (or not) may complicate the issue, but let's not get away from the fact that one group has been preventing the other from having those privileges because they do not agree on the interpretation of their religion.
He's killed someone he knew and then claimed it was in the name of ISIS
I'm not sure whether that's more terrifying though! Whilst it's pretty good to know that the "ISIS umbrella" includes the obvious 'lone wolf nutter' types, meaning that they're not all well equipped and battle hardened... On the other hand, it does also lead to the suggestion that they can be absolutely anywhere and anyone; kinda like McDonalds as you say.
If not now IS are going to become a very real threat to our way of life.
Time for boots on the ground. Lack of action now will mean a need for greater action further down the line.
IS are not going away.
The attacks of ISIS are not religious in nature but political. They hide behind a shroud of religion but their main aim is power across the entire middle east.
Location would be interesting. I'm curious as to how views differ in locations where the Muslim community is more "integrated" (I hate that term).
For instance Whitechapel is somewhere I don't feel safe walking through and I feel there's been no attempt at integration; it also happens to be somewhere that there's been a lot of uproar over supposed "Muslim Patrols" and IS flags. Same goes for Luton.
Similarly what was the actual wording? If it was as simple as "Can you understand the reasoning behind the Charlie Hebdo attacks?" then I think we could all say yes. We understand that the attackers viewed CH as a legitimate target based on previous prints and comments published in CH and they used this to justify mass murder.
On the contrary, if it was "Do you support the actions of those responsible for the attack?" then those that do are simply garbage with no place in a modern society. Unfortunately there were TV interviews that showed sympathetic views but let's remember a bit of outrage is good for TV and for every good interview they may have had 20 bad ones..
Lastly, how was the survey delivered? Would I give my honest views to someone doing a survey if it was controversial and I had my mates with me? Probably not.
IS appear to be a social/cultural movement. From the outside, the appeal seems to be the lifestyle rather than the devoutness of religion.
I believe it was an Ottoman Sultan who first provided the justification for Muslims to kill Muslims as he wanted to invade the Arabian peninsula. It was at a time that Istanbul was the centre of Islam and he argued/interpreted that the 'other' group (Sunni/Shia, not sure) were not really Muslim so there was no problem in conquering and killing them.
Sad news about all three attacks. Thoughts with the victims and their families.
I wouldnt want my comments about Luton and Whitechapel to come across as alarmist or dramatic, or even racist.
However I do feel these areas are the key to stopping homegrown extremism. Deal with the areas that have become "pockets of a far flung land" and ensure we never let them become that way again. They need to become British again because the members of those community, regardless of how it sounds, are actually British.
The land they walk on everyday and the system they use.. is British. By not confronting these areas we ARE ignoring what they're doing and that in itself leads to the feelings of disconnect. I can understand how someone who has grown up in these places can see themselves as Muslim above British; and this is our fault because we've let them grow up in to places we've neglected and allowed to become microsocieties.
It's brilliant that I can hear the call to prayers in some areas, but it's not brilliant that there are places I only feel safe with Asian friends.
Integration isn't invasion; nor is integration simply allowing the "right of self chosen segregation". We need to treat everyone the same and expect the same from everyone; cultural excuses shouldn't cut it.
Unfortunately I can't see a plausible way of doing this because I think it's gone too far.