You could get 10 different people read the Bible and the Koran and all of them will interpret it differently
What's the point of a book if everyone is going to interpret it differently?
Is this a wum?
Absolutely not a wum. I have no doubt that some people will read different things into different texts. But Magic was claiming 10 out of 10 people. That is 100% divergence. Any book that managed this level of alternative explanations has failed spectacularly. Especially given that the whole purpose of these religious texts is to convert people to one world view.
Stig I agree with you but as with most of these publications they are many peoples interpretations written down over centries and people take what they want from them if it suits their cause with any book you will take the side of the character whom you bond with by the authors writings all a bloody waste of time really
It is perfectly possible to be an atheist and yet also be a judgmental, hypocritical, hateful dickwad. It is equally possible to practice a faith and yet remain open minded and understanding of others and their beliefs. Most people tend to manage to have a socially acceptable set of beliefs regardless of their belief in any higher power. Human beings have been killing each other ever since we managed to club our way to the top of the food chain and wipe out the Neanderthals. Do some people use religion as an excuse? Most definitely yes. Is religion the sole or even the primary reason? No, not really. Not for me.
It is perfectly possible to be an atheist and yet also be a judgmental, hypocritical, hateful dickwad. It is equally possible to practice a faith and yet remain open minded and understanding of others and their beliefs. Most people tend to manage to have a socially acceptable set of beliefs regardless of their belief in any higher power. Human beings have been killing each other ever since we managed to club our way to the top of the food chain and wipe out the Neanderthals. Do some people use religion as an excuse? Most definitely yes. Is religion the sole or even the primary reason? No, not really. Not for me.
I think that's the point to some people; we all know we can kill each other, but with religion seems to always be the catalyst for it these days.
The most reported perhaps. The sole and only catalyst, even now? Nope. Not even remotely true. There was a shooting in America based solely on racial grounds. In England a man beheaded a harmless elderly lady in the middle of some sort of psychotic fit. Those would both still happen in a world totally free of religion. Killing in the name of religion is absolutely abhorrent, I do not question that. But so is killing for money, or race, or sexual gratification.
You could get 10 different people read the Bible and the Koran and all of them will interpret it differently
What's the point of a book if everyone is going to interpret it differently?
Is this a wum?
Absolutely not a wum. I have no doubt that some people will read different things into different texts. But Magic was claiming 10 out of 10 people. That is 100% divergence. Any book that managed this level of alternative explanations has failed spectacularly. Especially given that the whole purpose of these religious texts is to convert people to one world view.
But throughout the history of literature people have found different meanings in texts not just religious texts. For example some of us may find Shakespeare completely boring others would find it hilarious, heartbreaking and poignant. Who's to say who is wrong? It's completely personal preference and that's the way I view IS, at the top they are people completely transfixed on slaughtering and dominating those around them if they do not do as they say and will point to parts of the Quran to back their agenda. Yet millions of others who also read the Quran and are deeply religious completely reject their ways.
Let's face it, it is a small proportion of lunatics making the news. Not to downplay the tragic events of today or those that have happened in the past but I fully believe that if the Governments and security councils of the world thought this was a genuine threat to us then something would have been done by now.
I had a long chat with a surgeon from Aleppo recently. He got out when things went to hell 3 years ago. I truly pray Henry is right about how unlikely civil war is as this guys descriptions of what was going on were horrific. I just want to leave my kids a safe and peaceful world but my God I worry about the future.
Personally think you're a nut nut if you believe in any religion. These are just the extreme nut nuts.
The world is a sick place.
I'm not particularly religious, but can't help but feel the message from big JC was fundamentally a good one and it has probably resulted in less people killing one another than if he'd never existed.
He won Player of the Year mate, he definitely exists.
I'm not claiming at all that different people can't find different meaning in texts, we all view the world through the lens of our own experience. I am trying to temper the over-the-top argument that everyone will find a different meaning. It is blatant nonsense with no base in reality; it's is not as if there is some sort of magical rainbow spectrum where people choose any meaning they like. There are a narrow range of pretty clearly defined alternative understandings to most texts. Sorry, but your Shakespeare analogy does not hold up because you are confusing meaning (semantics) with attitude (emotions).
With regards to the Koran and it's violence, there are two main trends. Those (thankfully, the majority) who believe Islam to be a religion of peace and those who believe that they are fighting a holy war. But they don't just read the book in isolation and make up their own minds. The sad truth is, most have their minds made up for them before they are even born. The reason that most interpret the book in a positive and peaceful is not because it is peaceful by nature, but because they as human beings are. Those, like ISIS, who interpret it as a call to violence are on far firmer ground because the very words that are printed in that book are nauseatingly violent and hateful. Those who chose to interpret it in a peaceful manner have to perform quite unbelievable linguistic and logical contortions. To anyone who believes that it is a book of peace, I give you a challenge. Below are three quotes, just post below the peaceable meanings of these.
- "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
- "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."
- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
With millions of people reading this book on a regular basis it is hardly surprising that a fair number partake in grotesque displays of violence and killing. It is not because they are 'lunatics', it is because they are following scriptures. Of course, the vast majority of muslins a good, honest, peaceful people with no wish for any violence or terror. They are like this despite what it says in the koran, not because of it.
I always saw relgion as a way of controlling the masses which has now relaxed so people can interpret it as they wish. Sadly, some places haven't reached this stage yet. How can religion promote peace and free will, yet still have strict instructions?
But we all live by strict instructions within society whether we like it or not. You could even argue that those are enforced upon us yet with religion you yourself can choose which set of rules you want to live by.
Humans are emotional beings. Most laws or rules that we abide by are an attempt to keep up safe, happy or socially workable. Religion however, although now mostly a choice, was mass psychological enslavement and disempowerment used to keep followers in a state of fear and compliance, usually for the people that enforced the messages own personal gain.
I had a long chat with a surgeon from Aleppo recently. He got out when things went to hell 3 years ago. I truly pray Henry is right about how unlikely civil war is as this guys descriptions of what was going on were horrific. I just want to leave my kids a safe and peaceful world but my God I worry about the future.
well i guess it's good news to you that we are currently in the most peaceful period of human history and violent crime has been plummeting worldwide at a consistent rate for the last 40 years...
I had a long chat with a surgeon from Aleppo recently. He got out when things went to hell 3 years ago. I truly pray Henry is right about how unlikely civil war is as this guys descriptions of what was going on were horrific. I just want to leave my kids a safe and peaceful world but my God I worry about the future.
well i guess it's good news to you that we are currently in the most peaceful period of human history and violent crime has been plummeting worldwide at a consistent rate for the last 40 years...
I'm sure that's a great relief to those who lost loved ones in Sousse , on 7/7 and 9/11, kentaddick.
Violent crime per se, when talking of individual instances, may well be plummeting around the globe ...
But in the world we inhabit now, violence manifests itself on a whole new scale - one that touches far more innocent people since peace in our time was declared.
I'd go as far as saying that evil has taken the place of violence in our language....premeditated acts carried out to devastate as many lives as possible whether they be in the name of religion or race.
And I for one can see no end to these acts of mass slaughter.
As others have stated, I fear for the future of my children & my grandchildren .
Comments
Heaven is an extreme idea, write it down and then read it back out. People are conditioned to believe in this fairy tale.
Let's face it, it is a small proportion of lunatics making the news. Not to downplay the tragic events of today or those that have happened in the past but I fully believe that if the Governments and security councils of the world thought this was a genuine threat to us then something would have been done by now.
With regards to the Koran and it's violence, there are two main trends. Those (thankfully, the majority) who believe Islam to be a religion of peace and those who believe that they are fighting a holy war. But they don't just read the book in isolation and make up their own minds. The sad truth is, most have their minds made up for them before they are even born. The reason that most interpret the book in a positive and peaceful is not because it is peaceful by nature, but because they as human beings are. Those, like ISIS, who interpret it as a call to violence are on far firmer ground because the very words that are printed in that book are nauseatingly violent and hateful. Those who chose to interpret it in a peaceful manner have to perform quite unbelievable linguistic and logical contortions. To anyone who believes that it is a book of peace, I give you a challenge. Below are three quotes, just post below the peaceable meanings of these.
- "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
- "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."
- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
With millions of people reading this book on a regular basis it is hardly surprising that a fair number partake in grotesque displays of violence and killing. It is not because they are 'lunatics', it is because they are following scriptures. Of course, the vast majority of muslins a good, honest, peaceful people with no wish for any violence or terror. They are like this despite what it says in the koran, not because of it.
Violent crime per se, when talking of individual instances, may well be plummeting around the globe ...
But in the world we inhabit now, violence manifests itself on a whole new scale - one that touches far more innocent people since peace in our time was declared.
I'd go as far as saying that evil has taken the place of violence in our language....premeditated acts carried out to devastate as many lives as possible whether they be in the name of religion or race.
And I for one can see no end to these acts of mass slaughter.
As others have stated, I fear for the future of my children & my grandchildren .