Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
Completely separate issue.
Possibly. More like using them to divide and rule. Don't worry about the banks theft and establishment Paedos all of whom are innocent until Proven dead, turn your anger on immigrants and the unemployed etc. All linked.
Well they can't please everyone all of the time can they, but if they could, I'da thought that blocking ALL illegals and hanging ALL nonces would be a good start....
Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
Completely separate issue.
Possibly. More like using them to divide and rule. Don't worry about the banks theft and establishment Paedos all of whom are innocent until Proven dead, turn your anger on immigrants and the unemployed etc. All linked.
So as long as there is alleged political corruption in the country, no other issues can be seen as a priority of people's discussions?
Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
Completely separate issue.
Possibly. More like using them to divide and rule. Don't worry about the banks theft and establishment Paedos all of whom are innocent until Proven dead, turn your anger on immigrants and the unemployed etc. All linked.
So as long as there is alleged political corruption in the country, no other issues can be seen as a priority of people's discussions?
Why don't you take me up then on my offer, it's a straight up one, when I know I can get over on the eurotunnel in 1 day and back on the same I will take you right too them and you can speak with them and offer them your help,
Alternatively why don't we fly over to France hire a car and drive to calais during their next big foray to get in to the UK without claiming asylum the proper way and you can tell the lorry drivers your position and at the same time help the poor souls to get in illegally via any means at the same time watch them steal assault and vandalise the terminal,
Why don't you take me up then on my offer, it's a straight up one, when I know I can get over on the eurotunnel in 1 day and back on the same I will take you right too them and you can speak with them and offer them your help,
Alternatively why don't we fly over to France hire a car and drive to calais during their next big foray to get in to the UK without claiming asylum the proper way and you can tell the lorry drivers your position and at the same time help the poor souls to get in illegally via any means at the same time watch them steal assault and vandalise the terminal,
Take kentred with you and he can try to explain to the immigrants that we can't deal with them until we have sorted out all the problems with the Tories and the bankers. I'm sure they'll calm down then.
Why don't you take me up then on my offer, it's a straight up one, when I know I can get over on the eurotunnel in 1 day and back on the same I will take you right too them and you can speak with them and offer them your help,
Alternatively why don't we fly over to France hire a car and drive to calais during their next big foray to get in to the UK without claiming asylum the proper way and you can tell the lorry drivers your position and at the same time help the poor souls to get in illegally via any means at the same time watch them steal assault and vandalise the terminal,
Take kentred with you and he can try to explain to the immigrants that we can't deal with them until we have sorted out all the problems with the Tories and the bankers. I'm sure they'll calm down then.
Lol. Let them in to help us sort out the bankers and Tories is my view. They are probably more decent people.
Ok North London I would be up for a free day trip. Not sure I can offer them much but I could certainly see What what.
I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.
Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.
So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.
Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.
There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.
NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.
So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.
Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.
I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.
The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.
Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.
The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.
The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.
NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.
There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.
Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits. These people in France are entering illegally, not through proper channels. Cutting benefits would do nothing to deter them as they don't get them anyway.
This is simply wrong. Benefits are arranged for arrivals who claim to be under 18 - which is all of them up to the age of aboput 25 or 26 it seems. Maybe not housing or jobseekers, but benefits nonetheless. Arranging a foster parent costs between £450 and £800 per week. that is before all the rest of the support is given.
Mantson airport to be used as a temporary lorry park if Stack continues........ Blimey, how hard was that to decide?..... Just got to get the Gurkas down to Dover/Folkestone and some sort of order might be restored. Our so called leaders really have been as much good as a 'one legged man in an arse kicking contest' over this sad state of affairs. Hope some 'kit flying, breathless Treasury bod' gets the 'compo' out to the poor bloody business people that have been affected by this crap, over the past few weeks. Suspend there VAT and tax demand's till next April maybe, get some EU aid for the millions lost to the logistics people. I await for the action...... not warm words Prime Minister
I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.
Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.
So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.
Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.
There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.
NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.
So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.
Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.
I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.
The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.
Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.
The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.
The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.
NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.
There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.
Illegal immigrants cannot receive benefits. These people in France are entering illegally, not through proper channels. Cutting benefits would do nothing to deter them as they don't get them anyway.
This is simply wrong. Benefits are arranged for arrivals who claim to be under 18 - which is all of them up to the age of aboput 25 or 26 it seems. Maybe not housing or jobseekers, but benefits nonetheless. Arranging a foster parent costs between £450 and £800 per week. that is before all the rest of the support is given.
Asylum seeker <> illegal immigrant
Benefits to U18's apply to both your co-joined groups. Not sure what point you are making. Is it greater than and less than at the same time?
Mantson airport to be used as a temporary lorry park if Stack continues........ Blimey, how hard was that to decide?..... Just got to get the Gurkas down to Dover/Folkestone and some sort of order might be restored. Our so called leaders really have been as much good as a 'one legged man in an arse kicking contest' over this sad state of affairs. Hope some 'kit flying, breathless Treasury bod' gets the 'compo' out to the poor bloody business people that have been affected by this crap, over the past few weeks. Suspend there VAT and tax demand's till next April maybe, get some EU aid for the millions lost to the logistics people. I await for the action...... not warm words Prime Minister
Unfortunately, very few owners of haulage and logistic firms and all the small businesses in Kent affected by this mess will have been to Eton so I am not expecting much in the way of a tax payer bail out for these companies from Cameron and Osbourne and the rest of the Eton mafia in this government. Given that the bankers were 100% responsible for their problems with their greed, reckless risk taking and general incompetence it infuriates me that these small businesses are losing money and in some cases going bankrupt due to circumstances entirely out side their control and there has still been no commitment from this government to help them.
I don't think that Manston is the answer - it is a long way from the tunnel terminal at Folkestone and although part of the route has been improved recently, from Sandwich onwards it is pretty much single carriageway road. The trucks will have to get past Dover to get to Folkestone, which will jam Dover even more.
All Kent coastal towns will suffer as tourists won't want to go there and they desperately need people to visit in the summer.
Using Manston will only move the traffic problems elsewhere. The French getting a grip on the source of the problem is the only solution.
After reading Kentred's comments, I can only think he was one of the green party on the BBC's 'Gridlock Kent' last night. Quite a few of the specially invited audience wanted to let in all the migrants as a way of solving the traffic problems. The programme had a typical BBC left wing bias.
I want them to act and to recompense those affected but I am sure schooling is not the reason it's taking a real toll on our industry, when I think about it without the bias of impact it's had on me, how can Cameron do anything about what's happening in calais, all he can do is secure our side of the tunnel and port and push for eu support. Would we like the French to decide what happens this side.
I want them to act and to recompense those affected but I am sure schooling is not the reason it's taking a real toll on our industry, when I think about it without the bias of impact it's had on me, how can Cameron do anything about what's happening in calais, all he can do is secure our side of the tunnel and port and push for eu support. Would we like the French to decide what happens this side.
It's a mine field
Why won't he commit to 100% compensation to all the small businesses affected? It would cost a fraction of the cost of bailing out the banks. And he would have the backing of virtually the whole country. Simply delaying all the tax cuts announced in the last budget for a year would, I am sure, be more than adequate to pay for it.
I'd love that to happen but it won't the only compensation that will come will be if the European union subsidised it or promised to reduce our payments to them in tax or what ever we pay them,
It would be a fantastic bit of pr for the tories if it happened but it won't
Charlton Life - where a discussion on traffic problems in Kent eventually becomes a tirade against Tories, Etonians and Bankers, like nearly every other thread on here.
It does wonderfully help the arguments of those on the Press Influence thread who agree that people are too easily influenced by newspapers.
Not read any of that thread but that is a truly astounding comment from someone who is always posting links to right wing newspaper sites , political blog sites and right wing media commentators in an effort to establish credibility for a very narrow ideological view of the world. Beyond parody.
On these streets of no solution Where the gutters run with tears I will lead my revolution I’ve been revolting here for years ‘Cos I’m a people’s man And that’s how I’ll stay Come the glorious moment On the glorious day Someone else will pay On the glorious day
Come the glorious moment On the glorious day We’ll help find time to pay for the glorious day
My missus works for housing department within Bexley council and said today they received information from the Home office that a large number of asylum seekers have been placed in Sidcup Travelodge! Once that runs out its down to Bexley council to house them. Thats Bexley council, that have such a home shortage that they are having to put families in need up in Manchester until property becomes available!!!
It does wonderfully help the arguments of those on the Press Influence thread who agree that people are too easily influenced by newspapers.
Not read any of that thread but that is a truly astounding comment from someone who is always posting links to right wing newspaper sites , political blog sites and right wing media commentators in an effort to establish credibility for a very narrow ideological view of the world. Beyond parody.
If I ever post a link (probably once every 50 posts at most), half the time it is from the Guardian. Walk on sunshine. Also, you might want to look up the definition of parody before using it.
Comments
Alternatively why don't we fly over to France hire a car and drive to calais during their next big foray to get in to the UK without claiming asylum the proper way and you can tell the lorry drivers your position and at the same time help the poor souls to get in illegally via any means at the same time watch them steal assault and vandalise the terminal,
Ok North London I would be up for a free day trip. Not sure I can offer them much but I could certainly see What what.
They won't miss, the sas never miss
Blimey, how hard was that to decide?..... Just got to get the Gurkas down to Dover/Folkestone and some sort of order might be restored.
Our so called leaders really have been as much good as a 'one legged man in an arse kicking contest' over this sad state of affairs.
Hope some 'kit flying, breathless Treasury bod' gets the 'compo' out to the poor bloody business people that have been affected by this crap, over the past few weeks.
Suspend there VAT and tax demand's till next April maybe, get some EU aid for the millions lost to the logistics people.
I await for the action...... not warm words Prime Minister
Is it greater than and less than at the same time?
All Kent coastal towns will suffer as tourists won't want to go there and they desperately need people to visit in the summer.
Using Manston will only move the traffic problems elsewhere. The French getting a grip on the source of the problem is the only solution.
After reading Kentred's comments, I can only think he was one of the green party on the BBC's 'Gridlock Kent' last night. Quite a few of the specially invited audience wanted to let in all the migrants as a way of solving the traffic problems. The programme had a typical BBC left wing bias.
It's a mine field
It would be a fantastic bit of pr for the tories if it happened but it won't
Beyond parody indeed, brother.
On these streets of no solution
Where the gutters run with tears
I will lead my revolution
I’ve been revolting here for years
‘Cos I’m a people’s man
And that’s how I’ll stay
Come the glorious moment
On the glorious day
Someone else will pay
On the glorious day
Come the glorious moment
On the glorious day
We’ll help find time to pay
for the glorious day
Power to the People!
"Pompous twat" in 5,4,3...