@nthlondonaddick I'm just watching a discussion on BBC News channel, I think it will make your blood boil - some woman is saying there are only 3K of them in Calais so we should just let them all in. She could do with hearing your awful story.
It's these fools that need to be stopped from speaking and actually face it sit in that car at midnight in the clip I posted with a child and then talk,
Until you see it for your own eyes and by that I mean as a freight passenger, see what we face, see the damage see men who dont share a language but share an experience stand shoulder to shoulder in keeping each other as safe as you can
People can quote from Google and newspapers and sound informed but my offer stands when stack clears I will personally pay and drive you to them at night and drop you off where you can offer your support face to face,
But you won't come back with all your possessions or even your body without harm,
But those probably would say what do you expect after what they have been through
@nthlondonaddick I'm just watching a discussion on BBC News channel, I think it will make your blood boil - some woman is saying there are only 3K of them in Calais so we should just let them all in. She could do with hearing your awful story.
It's these fools that need to be stopped from speaking and actually face it sit in that car at midnight in the clip I posted with a child and then talk,
Until you see it for your own eyes and by that I mean as a freight passenger, see what we face, see the damage see men who dont share a language but share an experience stand shoulder to shoulder in keeping each other as safe as you can
People can quote from Google and newspapers and sound informed but my offer stands when stack clears I will personally pay and drive you to them at night and drop you off where you can offer your support face to face,
But you won't come back with all your possessions or even your body without harm,
But those probably would say what do you expect after what they have been through
You've done a good job bringing home what is happening, especially with that video. The thing is that @Henry Irving 's post above is equally deserving of people's attention. Which illustrates that it's important not to go for each others' throats with some pseudo right wing- left wing confrontation.
We've got to make it safe for people like you going through there, and I think the French haven't done enough. We all know that when they want to, they get stuck in. But on its own that isn't enough. We have to address the problems that cause them all to gather at Calais, which is just one pinch-point. Take a look at what is happening on the idyllic Greek island of Lesbos.
You are not right when you say they are "all" scum. In your heart you know that. But equally, if I was in your shoes and had some pepper spray or something, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
You've pulled at my heart strings more than once on this thread over the past few days, NLA.
It's as clear as the nose on my face that you are one of the few posters to tell it like it is because you're so closely involved in this mess. I've hesitated with my fingers over my keyboard on several occasions, about to message you to urge you to stay safe under severe provocation. But I know you can look after yourself & are ever mindful of your young family waiting for you at home. We can only hope & pray that others in the same predicament are as strong as you.
I have little to add to this thread - I count myself as one of the bystanders here - and thank others far more knowledgeable for their thought provoking posts, varied as they are.
But I count you, NLA as one of the most perceptive, honest Lifers that I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting ( can't believe you were at POTY ! ) You tell it like it is whenever you post & I respect your views.
So, I have no doubt in my mind that the picture you paint so vividly is a true, if terrifying one of the situation faced by innocent drivers as they endeavour to go about their business to earn an honest living. The story you tell of the guy with you in Newcastle is heart rending indeed and I'm sure he is one of many who face the future with fast diminishing optimism. He is fortunate to have met you , a good Samaritan.
What will bring this nightmare to an end , I have no idea. But it has to happen soon before, as you & others have predicted, innocent lives are lost in self defence. Then the floodgates will open.....
What I do perceive is that my countrymen/women are increasingly at risk of becoming involved, either directly or indirectly in acts of violence as a result of our inability to control our borders. Terrorism, in some shape or form, constantly lurks at the back of my mind - call me paranoid if you will but that's how I feel. Family members going on holiday to Turkey ; friends travelling on Eurostar; even son & son in law's daily commute to London.....all concern me in varying degrees depending, I guess on my mood. I know this is how "they" want us Brits to feel - doh ! - but in my case, they've succeeded. The "swarm" of illegal immigrants via Eurotunnel into the Garden of England where I've lived for 67 years, is surely perfect cover for out and out terrorists....
Perhaps I read too much fiction and the wrong newspapers but our government has to act NOW to find a way to stop this madness and protect our borders before the situation in Kent & Calais escalates further. Meanwhile, we are united in wishing you safe journeys wherever your driving takes you, dear friend. You & your fellow sufferers in this current "war" are the unsung heroes.
I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.
Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.
So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.
Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.
There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.
NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.
So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.
Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.
I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.
The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.
Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.
The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.
The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.
NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.
There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.
The election has happened and the present government won. Cameron has a mandate whatever the vocal left say doesn't he, he is the bloke in charge right now? If you read my post I express every sympathy towards NLA on this matter don't I?
Yes Cameron has a mandate. But the horse bolted many years ago under Blair and Cameron has been left to pick up the pieces. It is now an impossible job, that cannot be solved. It is sadly something that I predicted when I decided to move my family to Australia in 2003. When it takes over a week to see a GP or six months to see a specialist, or when the queues at the post office are backing up down the street, then you know the system is buckling under the strain. Yes you did express sympathy towards NLA. I was simply making the point that the people of the UK also have rights, but those rights are often ignored by the left who would happily open the borders to anyone who would like make a new life in the UK, no matter how much that impacts the lives of the people already there.
So basically it's nothing to do with you. You don't live here and from what you've said you don't sound as if you have any intention to return,
Yes it does, I spent the first 40 years of my life there and I'm still a British Citizen. My family still lives there and I spend two months a year there. I care very much for my homeland and despair at what is happening there.
But you voted with your feet and became an economic migrant. To my mind then you've decided this is not the place for you. Worry about where you live and pay taxes.
This might be the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum.
You do realise you have also posted on topics that relate to countries other than the UK, right?
It's driving me mad repeating in as many ways I can the real story that's happening,
I have no reason to lie and no reason or political agenda to bang the drum of, this issue has cost me thousands this year in lost time, labour and work, and it's infuriating that our government is so slow to react,
I have taken the decision to be the driver of every foray abroad that needs to be done on this route in and out of calais as I couldn't sleep knowing I sent someone into that, I offer to fly My other employee out to France and pick them up but my guys are loyal and true and won't let me go.that way alone,
There's so many tales out there like this chap whom bared his soul to a stranger as I believe he is at wits end, I will do as much as I can to help him even if it's just to listen,
I know of two long standing haulage firms one who ships cars the other high end possessions to well to do ex pats who since March have not been able to haul across Europe due to the insurance costs now associated with it, cars on the trailers being battered and stripped of anything sellable, the other who stupidly didn't lock the vehicle when he fell asleep in the jam, was pulled from the vehicle a Luton lowloader van and the clients items ransacked broken and stolen, his insurers won't cover his goods in transit across there unless he pays a ridiculous premium.
They are both hauling beds, and other multiple drop items earning 40-50% less now than last year just to work and stay a float
When you think that haulage has a huge cash flow need just to Stay on the road, it wouldn't take much to impact your viability to trade
I am really annoyed and saddened that people would rather protest over a fox than a human suffering real pain
And try to convince people that any criticism of these filth is xenophobia or racist, scare mongering or right wing,
The real problem is that unless you travel freight you won't see it,
Every day I wake up waiting for the sky news ticker tape to say a driver has been murdered there defending his property and worse still that the hotbed has been infiltrated by terrorists and something even worse has happened
You and your associates have my sympathies NLA. It is the responsibility of democratically elected governments to keep their citizens safe and borders secure by appropriate means. It is my opinion that ours has been far too slow to act decisively in this, and that the French Government have also failed to provide proper protection for people going about their lawful business. Whilst the migrant issue itself is complex, the principle here of guarding and securing a tunnel is straightforward, as is protection for people en route. A heavy presence of security personnel is required on the ground to show determination that things will be conducted in the correct and lawful manner.
I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.
Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.
So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.
Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.
There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.
NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.
So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.
Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.
I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.
The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.
Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.
The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.
The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.
NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.
There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.
The election has happened and the present government won. Cameron has a mandate whatever the vocal left say doesn't he, he is the bloke in charge right now? If you read my post I express every sympathy towards NLA on this matter don't I?
Yes Cameron has a mandate. But the horse bolted many years ago under Blair and Cameron has been left to pick up the pieces. It is now an impossible job, that cannot be solved. It is sadly something that I predicted when I decided to move my family to Australia in 2003. When it takes over a week to see a GP or six months to see a specialist, or when the queues at the post office are backing up down the street, then you know the system is buckling under the strain. Yes you did express sympathy towards NLA. I was simply making the point that the people of the UK also have rights, but those rights are often ignored by the left who would happily open the borders to anyone who would like make a new life in the UK, no matter how much that impacts the lives of the people already there.
So basically it's nothing to do with you. You don't live here and from what you've said you don't sound as if you have any intention to return,
Yes it does, I spent the first 40 years of my life there and I'm still a British Citizen. My family still lives there and I spend two months a year there. I care very much for my homeland and despair at what is happening there.
But you voted with your feet and became an economic migrant. To my mind then you've decided this is not the place for you. Worry about where you live and pay taxes.
This might be the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum.
You do realise you have also posted on topics that relate to countries other than the UK, right?
He might have a point though Stu. Perhaps we should just worry about where we live and where we pay taxes. Tell the French it's their problem, stop the millions spent on foreign aid. That sort of thing.
It is also a right to see that the UK regain some sort of control over this issue. Warm words and diplomatic noises are cheap. If the alleged compensation to the affected lorry drivers, as well as business's concerned happens!, how long will it take, and will it delay the Revenue from demanding it's money from the small business's concerned this October. I think we know the answer to that one!. We shall see if the so called 'operation stack' does not not return, and the motorways are unlocked, That the 'Asylum seeker's' are properly assessed, before the above does not happen. If I had come to the UK 'legally' I might well be asking why did I bother. I do notice that the army, or any government agency, let alone the UN have been airbrushed out of the discussion?
Yes in the end it will need to be a political solution, perhaps one where we take some control, show some leadership, and stop expecting others in the EU and elsewhere to show any sympathy. It begins at our borders, and securing those borders.
I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.
Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.
So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.
Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.
There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.
NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.
So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.
Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.
I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.
The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.
Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.
The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.
The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.
NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.
There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.
The election has happened and the present government won. Cameron has a mandate whatever the vocal left say doesn't he, he is the bloke in charge right now? If you read my post I express every sympathy towards NLA on this matter don't I?
Yes Cameron has a mandate. But the horse bolted many years ago under Blair and Cameron has been left to pick up the pieces. It is now an impossible job, that cannot be solved. It is sadly something that I predicted when I decided to move my family to Australia in 2003. When it takes over a week to see a GP or six months to see a specialist, or when the queues at the post office are backing up down the street, then you know the system is buckling under the strain. Yes you did express sympathy towards NLA. I was simply making the point that the people of the UK also have rights, but those rights are often ignored by the left who would happily open the borders to anyone who would like make a new life in the UK, no matter how much that impacts the lives of the people already there.
So basically it's nothing to do with you. You don't live here and from what you've said you don't sound as if you have any intention to return,
Yes it does, I spent the first 40 years of my life there and I'm still a British Citizen. My family still lives there and I spend two months a year there. I care very much for my homeland and despair at what is happening there.
But you voted with your feet and became an economic migrant. To my mind then you've decided this is not the place for you. Worry about where you live and pay taxes.
This might be the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum.
You do realise you have also posted on topics that relate to countries other than the UK, right?
He might have a point though Stu. Perhaps we should just worry about where we live and where we pay taxes. Tell the French it's their problem, stop the millions spent on foreign aid. That sort of thing.
No job, no opinion, there's an idea I could get behind.
Just saw that video from NLA - what the freekin is going on out there!
Got a text from my ex -wife a little while back to say that my 2 eldest kids are now safely back in the UK. Them all having travelled through Calais at the crack of sparrows this morning.
It's a shit storm that needs sorting and violence looks like the way to go
I knew I would get flack but the lack of empathy with fellow humans is breathtaking. The criminals and scroungers wanting to breach our walls have in the vast majority of cases walked from war torn Africa and Middle East. How desperate must they be to even consider such a journey with no money food or idea of outcome. If that alone doesn't attract some sympathy with their plight then I'm saddened.
Previously on this thread when Kentred waffled on about us having an obligation to take these refugees in I made him/her an offer that I would drive some of the refugees round to him/her so he/she could take them in. Surprisingly I never heard anymore.
So I'll make the same offer to you. Give us your address and I'll drop some of these poor people round to you for you to look after. Doesn't matter if you haven't got a spare room, I'm sure they'll be happy to sleep on your sofa.
Or am I right in assuming you don't actually want to do it yourself but are quite happy for other taxpayers to pick up the bill?
I think I know why you issue these challenges. In a way you have understandably individualised and particularised the issue because it is all we have left when trying to proceed as a community is so rudderless and random.
There are loads of things in life we have to group together to try to deal with, and it seems to me the issue is not about SHG's or Kentreds apparent waffling empathy, they are entitled to feel that way, it is about how collectively all of us involved are failing here.
NLA as an individual has his lighter and WD40, and I fully understand that, and also respect what he has written about it actually being a fearful situation, and as a decent working guy, this is like something we used to see on the telly far away piling into the cab of his van. Appalling situation for NLA and others to experience, and more importantly to experience effectively alone, so folk are driven to drastic individual responses.
So we have NLA alone to endure it, you would also have Kentred and SHG alone to take in people and deal with it for the cheek (?) of expressing empathy. If ever there was a situation where folk should act together it is this one, but we are fragmented because the leadership on this is non existent, or in the hands of politicians who are caught in the headlights.
Having a go at NLA for feeling like taking extreme measures, or having a go at SHG for feeling empathetic is not going to solve things.
I don't pretend to have an easy solution, and it is in this kind of situation that we are supposed to have decent leaders in authority to plan how to sort it out. A Cobra meeting has happened, and fences planned and so on, I am doubtful, but maybe that will solve everything.
The wider debate (and I don't mean on here) is in danger of becoming hysterical and toxic, and the shocking thing is it is not difficult to see why, but hysteria and toxicity are useless when a cool and quick response it what is really needed.
Firstly the physical problems need to be sorted, and people and places made safe and secure, but that also needs to be matched by some kind of plan to deal with all those people who have pitched up, and that plan needs to be credible.
The costs right now are negligible when measures against the costs that Turkey has had to meet with their two million refugees, but for Turkey it is recognised as an international crisis and all kinds of agencies are involved.
The Calais thing is so localised and small in comparison that the rest of the world is leaving it up to Britain and France to sort out, so far they have not been doing it, which brings us back to, if not the authorities, then we as individuals have to take it on, and it will fragment us even more.
NLA absolutely deserves to go about his business in an ordinary and decent way. SHG and others deserve to also mention that maybe not everybody is scum, and perhaps to be driven to the point of (for instance) stowing away in the axle space of a lorry is an act of desperation for whatever reason. It may be equivocation or squaring a circle, but both the kind of response of NLA and the kind of response of SHG seem to be valid.
There has recently been an election, and it is time for the leaders to lead.
Oh yes, leadership, and just watch the outcry and the protests on the streets from the Labour left and the Greens the moment Cameron tries to impose strict quotas on migration and tries to take the sugar off the table by cutting the benefits. It's a bit hard to show leadership when the vocal left are so opposed to anything that is perceived as being tough or harsh, or contravening peoples human rights. Never mind NLA's human rights in trying to provide for his family and going about his daily life without being threatened.
The election has happened and the present government won. Cameron has a mandate whatever the vocal left say doesn't he, he is the bloke in charge right now? If you read my post I express every sympathy towards NLA on this matter don't I?
Yes Cameron has a mandate. But the horse bolted many years ago under Blair and Cameron has been left to pick up the pieces. It is now an impossible job, that cannot be solved. It is sadly something that I predicted when I decided to move my family to Australia in 2003. When it takes over a week to see a GP or six months to see a specialist, or when the queues at the post office are backing up down the street, then you know the system is buckling under the strain. Yes you did express sympathy towards NLA. I was simply making the point that the people of the UK also have rights, but those rights are often ignored by the left who would happily open the borders to anyone who would like make a new life in the UK, no matter how much that impacts the lives of the people already there.
So basically it's nothing to do with you. You don't live here and from what you've said you don't sound as if you have any intention to return,
Yes it does, I spent the first 40 years of my life there and I'm still a British Citizen. My family still lives there and I spend two months a year there. I care very much for my homeland and despair at what is happening there.
But you voted with your feet and became an economic migrant. To my mind then you've decided this is not the place for you. Worry about where you live and pay taxes.
This might be the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum.
You do realise you have also posted on topics that relate to countries other than the UK, right?
He might have a point though Stu. Perhaps we should just worry about where we live and where we pay taxes. Tell the French it's their problem, stop the millions spent on foreign aid. That sort of thing.
No job, no opinion, there's an idea I could get behind.
Don't know if this will do any good NLA, might get some exposure.
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I am in a hotel in Newcastle as I have the Webb Ellis trophy to collect tomorrow and take to a sponsorship event. We had been waiting for the set to be finished in construction and shipped to us up here, the guy who was meant to have bought it up to us from Maidstone has been stuck in calais for three days his boss has delivered it
a set builder and small business owner has had to ask the guys out there to take the three days as time off as so far this year the problems there had cost him 120k in lost revenue and he just can't cover 3guys wages for 3 days any more he has done it 5 times since March and on One occasion his lorry was there 9 days as it had done it's 6 days legal movement and had to take two days not moving and another day to get back, the labour and hire allocated for the trade show in Belgium was three days so he had to find 3 guys wages for an additional 6 days over what he had budgeted
The additional labour and vehicle hire plus lost contracts is killing this guy and I don't see anyone offering him help or researching how many other small British guys are going to lose it all dye to the actions or these filth and the total lack of action from the government
It's not a Tory vs labour thing which is what will happen each will snipe and take advantage of the poor bstds out there struggling and pander to public opinion
Yet last week people took to the streets because a fox might get killed in an inhumane way by a dog and people on horses
People are campaigning for that dentist to be sent back for killing a lion
People riot over capitalism and smash shops and generally cause havoc because it's trendy to do so in Surbiton or Kingston whilst daddy hides in his pent house office in the city selling futures
he is meeting with his bank on weds to beg for help as his business is teetering on the edge of collapse, his set building contract at the milano expo 2015 was worth 45k profit enough to keep both drivers in wages for another year, in the end it cost him 20k in wasted time materials and proto type demonstrations, I really feel for him now there's a man in need of compassion and help and I will do all I can to help him stay afloat without killing my business but I think we can help eachother as we both can use eachothers products to achieve and grow
15 yrs hard slog to build something that was turning a profit and becoming successful. Building a reputation and beginning to feel a success
Save your pity and sympathy for people like the man I met tonight, whom I have paid his hotel bill for tonight because his card was declined and who is looking for a hand up not out, who has paid tax paid ni and worked since 16 and owned this business for 15 yrs abs will lose everything if it goes under, his house, his respect, his dignity he has 3 kids a small mortgage on a small home in Kent nothing extravagant,
Or offer your sympathy to people you won't ever meet, who don't need it or would even respect or have gratitude for, who would steel and cut you as quick as looking at you, who mock and ridicule you and your country for allowing scum like them to take from people like the man I met tonight and that we will even offer them legal assistance to do so, but will happily allow one of our own to drop into poverty and no doubt ill health because they are stopping him earning
Hope you're OK today, Darren.
Just read this post to Richard & he visibly blanched ....
Don't know if this will do any good NLA, might get some exposure.
Are you in Calais? Are you affected by the issues raised in this story? Please email haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk with your experiences.
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I gave this to Chris this afternoon thanks for that, once he knows what the bank says he will look to start to Try and claim some compo
You and your associates have my sympathies NLA. It is the responsibility of democratically elected governments to keep their citizens safe and borders secure by appropriate means. It is my opinion that ours has been far too slow to act decisively in this, and that the French Government have also failed to provide proper protection for people going about their lawful business. Whilst the migrant issue itself is complex, the principle here of guarding and securing a tunnel is straightforward, as is protection for people en route. A heavy presence of security personnel is required on the ground to show determination that things will be conducted in the correct and lawful manner.
I think you raise a very good point here @3blokes - this type of situation is exactly where and why I want to see the elected government act. Putting aside political allegiances, the government must act and act hard.
I'm a bit like FF in that I might've wanted to type my 2pence worth a couple of times, but glad I haven't without knowing the full facts. Because of NLA's efforts, passion and forthright posts I believe we have the real picture now. I don't believe for one second he's inhumane or heartless in his comments, just caught up in the emotion of seeing it all play out.
That's hilarious. I hope he drive them miles and miles away from Calais. It's a shame that we don't get to see their faces when they realise that they are still in France!
NLA I have to say your posts on this thread have been really fantastic and full of real life commentary that we don't see or hear on the media and I applaud your sir for that.
I have a personal worry as my Daughter and her family are currently in Portugal and will (in theory) be travelling back through Calais at the end of the month and I am extremely fearful as I have two little grand daughters aged 7 and 5. It's a long story but her husband will not fly and so they are driving back I have tried to talk to him about looking for another route but I have a feeling it all fell on deaf ears like it isn't happening. on the other hand when I dropped my daughter and the girls off at the airport on Sunday she promised me that if this was still as bad she would make sure they didn't go to Calais. I have always really liked my son in law but if anything happens to my girls as a result of his pigheadedness I'll bloody kill him. Sorry for venting but sometimes it helps.
For me there solution is two tiered. First you have to deal with the immediate problem and that should be to remove these people away from Calais so the French and us have to agree to place troops in the area, clear the camp site and burn it so that they have nowhere to go back to. Secondly there has to be a secure detention (or if you are a bleeding heart) processing centre that is guarded where these people can be processed properly and where we can ascertain if they are genuine asylum seekers fleeing for their life or economic migrants/criminals who can be deported.
We cannot let them in carte blanch as suggested we have no idea who they are, what are their motivations (are they IS for instance) and whether they are going to assimilate and earn their own way. We have an NHS in crisis, overstuffed schools and a lack of either affordable or social housing until we resolve those issues I say no more.
Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
kentred2 sorry mate you are conflating two different things. Nobody is happy about the RBS share sell off but having another 5000 mouths to feed ain't going to improve the situation is it now? And if they are so desperate why didn't they claim asylum at their first point of entry as per international law?
I suggest you read NLA's posts and look at the video he posted and then figure out whether we want them here
Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
Completely separate issue.
Possibly. More like using them to divide and rule. Don't worry about the banks theft and establishment Paedos all of whom are innocent until Proven dead, turn your anger on immigrants and the unemployed etc. All linked.
Yes let's do as the governed, the mail etc says and make the "poor little illegals" public enemy number 1. Travelling thousands of miles and risking death at the tunnel all for £90 pw. That way the true thieves the Tories and the banks can rob another one billion off us all in the latest share scandal. The little tinkers.
Why do people argue/make points in this way, ridiculous.....You can protest about both......
Comments
It's these fools that need to be stopped from speaking and actually face it sit in that car at midnight in the clip I posted with a child and then talk,
Until you see it for your own eyes and by that I mean as a freight passenger, see what we face, see the damage see men who dont share a language but share an experience stand shoulder to shoulder in keeping each other as safe as you can
People can quote from Google and newspapers and sound informed but my offer stands when stack clears I will personally pay and drive you to them at night and drop you off where you can offer your support face to face,
But you won't come back with all your possessions or even your body without harm,
But those probably would say what do you expect after what they have been through
We've got to make it safe for people like you going through there, and I think the French haven't done enough. We all know that when they want to, they get stuck in. But on its own that isn't enough. We have to address the problems that cause them all to gather at Calais, which is just one pinch-point. Take a look at what is happening on the idyllic Greek island of Lesbos.
You are not right when you say they are "all" scum. In your heart you know that. But equally, if I was in your shoes and had some pepper spray or something, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
It's as clear as the nose on my face that you are one of the few posters to tell it like it is because you're so closely involved in this mess. I've hesitated with my fingers over my keyboard on several occasions, about to message you to urge you to stay safe under severe provocation. But I know you can look after yourself & are ever mindful of your young family waiting for you at home. We can only hope & pray that others in the same predicament are as strong as you.
I have little to add to this thread - I count myself as one of the bystanders here - and thank others far more knowledgeable for their thought provoking posts, varied as they are.
But I count you, NLA as one of the most perceptive, honest Lifers that I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting ( can't believe you were at POTY ! ) You tell it like it is whenever you post & I respect your views.
So, I have no doubt in my mind that the picture you paint so vividly is a true, if terrifying one of the situation faced by innocent drivers as they endeavour to go about their business to earn an honest living. The story you tell of the guy with you in Newcastle is heart rending indeed and I'm sure he is one of many who face the future with fast diminishing optimism. He is fortunate to have met you , a good Samaritan.
What will bring this nightmare to an end , I have no idea. But it has to happen soon before, as you & others have predicted, innocent lives are lost in self defence. Then the floodgates will open.....
What I do perceive is that my countrymen/women are increasingly at risk of becoming involved, either directly or indirectly in acts of violence as a result of our inability to control our borders. Terrorism, in some shape or form, constantly lurks at the back of my mind - call me paranoid if you will but that's how I feel. Family members going on holiday to Turkey ; friends travelling on Eurostar; even son & son in law's daily commute to London.....all concern me in varying degrees depending, I guess on my mood. I know this is how "they" want us Brits to feel - doh ! - but in my case, they've succeeded. The "swarm" of illegal immigrants via Eurotunnel into the Garden of England where I've lived for 67 years, is surely perfect cover for out and out terrorists....
Perhaps I read too much fiction and the wrong newspapers but our government has to act NOW to find a way to stop this madness and protect our borders before the situation in Kent & Calais escalates further. Meanwhile, we are united in wishing you safe journeys wherever your driving takes you, dear friend. You & your fellow sufferers in this current "war" are the unsung heroes.
Stay safe.
You do realise you have also posted on topics that relate to countries other than the UK, right?
It's driving me mad repeating in as many ways I can the real story that's happening,
I have no reason to lie and no reason or political agenda to bang the drum of, this issue has cost me thousands this year in lost time, labour and work, and it's infuriating that our government is so slow to react,
I have taken the decision to be the driver of every foray abroad that needs to be done on this route in and out of calais as I couldn't sleep knowing I sent someone into that, I offer to fly My other employee out to France and pick them up but my guys are loyal and true and won't let me go.that way alone,
There's so many tales out there like this chap whom bared his soul to a stranger as I believe he is at wits end, I will do as much as I can to help him even if it's just to listen,
I know of two long standing haulage firms one who ships cars the other high end possessions to well to do ex pats who since March have not been able to haul across Europe due to the insurance costs now associated with it, cars on the trailers being battered and stripped of anything sellable, the other who stupidly didn't lock the vehicle when he fell asleep in the jam, was pulled from the vehicle a Luton lowloader van and the clients items ransacked broken and stolen, his insurers won't cover his goods in transit across there unless he pays a ridiculous premium.
They are both hauling beds, and other multiple drop items earning 40-50% less now than last year just to work and stay a float
When you think that haulage has a huge cash flow need just to Stay on the road, it wouldn't take much to impact your viability to trade
I am really annoyed and saddened that people would rather protest over a fox than a human suffering real pain
And try to convince people that any criticism of these filth is xenophobia or racist, scare mongering or right wing,
The real problem is that unless you travel freight you won't see it,
Every day I wake up waiting for the sky news ticker tape to say a driver has been murdered there defending his property and worse still that the hotbed has been infiltrated by terrorists and something even worse has happened
God bless Jean and thank you,
Whilst the migrant issue itself is complex, the principle here of guarding and securing a tunnel is straightforward, as is protection for people en route. A heavy presence of security personnel is required on the ground to show determination that things will be conducted in the correct and lawful manner.
He might have a point though Stu. Perhaps we should just worry about where we live and where we pay taxes.
Tell the French it's their problem,
stop the millions spent on foreign aid.
That sort of thing.
I see that Serco, are being used as the 'facilitator' of this.......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182519/Welcome-soft-touch-UK-Outrage-immigrants-illegally-entering-UK-free-hotel-rooms-cooked-meals-35-cash-week-days-arrival.html
If this is true, and I say 'if', it simply will divide people, and have no sympathy for anyone that is an alleged Asylum seeker.
Apparently according to the PM it is a 'European issue'...... you are right there matey.
It is also a right to see that the UK regain some sort of control over this issue. Warm words and diplomatic noises are cheap.
If the alleged compensation to the affected lorry drivers, as well as business's concerned happens!, how long will it take, and will it delay the Revenue from demanding it's money from the small business's concerned this October. I think we know the answer to that one!.
We shall see if the so called 'operation stack' does not not return, and the motorways are unlocked, That the 'Asylum seeker's' are properly assessed, before the above does not happen. If I had come to the UK 'legally' I might well be asking why did I bother.
I do notice that the army, or any government agency, let alone the UN have been airbrushed out of the discussion?
Yes in the end it will need to be a political solution, perhaps one where we take some control, show some leadership, and stop expecting others in the EU and elsewhere to show any sympathy. It begins at our borders, and securing those borders.
Got a text from my ex -wife a little while back to say that my 2 eldest kids are now safely back in the UK. Them all having travelled through Calais at the crack of sparrows this morning.
It's a shit storm that needs sorting and violence looks like the way to go
Are you in Calais? Are you affected by the issues raised in this story? Please email haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk with your experiences.
Please include a contact number if you are willing to speak to a BBC journalist. You can also contact us in the following ways:
◾Email haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk
◾WhatsApp: +44 7525 900971
◾Send pictures/video to yourpics@bbc.co.uk
◾Or Upload your pictures/video here
◾Tweet: @BBC_HaveYourSay
◾Send an SMS or MMS to 61124 or +44 7624 800 100
Just read this post to Richard & he visibly blanched ....
His words were " Send this to Cameron".
Take care.
I gave this to Chris this afternoon thanks for that, once he knows what the bank says he will look to start to Try and claim some compo
I'm a bit like FF in that I might've wanted to type my 2pence worth a couple of times, but glad I haven't without knowing the full facts. Because of NLA's efforts, passion and forthright posts I believe we have the real picture now. I don't believe for one second he's inhumane or heartless in his comments, just caught up in the emotion of seeing it all play out.
Let's hope for a speedy solution
https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpf1/v/t42.1790-2/11716272_977403635614183_114420733_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjU0NSwicmxhIjo1MTJ9&rl=545&vabr=303&oh=274a0559305d236f3d08bb7ecf66feb8&oe=55C0BFFC
Poor little illegals, I've got nothing but sympathy for em
Anyone living around the Ashford area who could advise if the access roads/M20 are being affected now ?
Thanks.
I have a personal worry as my Daughter and her family are currently in Portugal and will (in theory) be travelling back through Calais at the end of the month and I am extremely fearful as I have two little grand daughters aged 7 and 5. It's a long story but her husband will not fly and so they are driving back I have tried to talk to him about looking for another route but I have a feeling it all fell on deaf ears like it isn't happening. on the other hand when I dropped my daughter and the girls off at the airport on Sunday she promised me that if this was still as bad she would make sure they didn't go to Calais. I have always really liked my son in law but if anything happens to my girls as a result of his pigheadedness I'll bloody kill him. Sorry for venting but sometimes it helps.
For me there solution is two tiered. First you have to deal with the immediate problem and that should be to remove these people away from Calais so the French and us have to agree to place troops in the area, clear the camp site and burn it so that they have nowhere to go back to. Secondly there has to be a secure detention (or if you are a bleeding heart) processing centre that is guarded where these people can be processed properly and where we can ascertain if they are genuine asylum seekers fleeing for their life or economic migrants/criminals who can be deported.
We cannot let them in carte blanch as suggested we have no idea who they are, what are their motivations (are they IS for instance) and whether they are going to assimilate and earn their own way. We have an NHS in crisis, overstuffed schools and a lack of either affordable or social housing until we resolve those issues I say no more.
I suggest you read NLA's posts and look at the video he posted and then figure out whether we want them here
Proven dead, turn your anger on immigrants and the unemployed etc. All linked.