David De Gea, made a lot of clangers in his first couple of seasons at Man United, and took a lot of stick, and ridicule from the United fans.
Now United fans will be gutted to lose arguably one of the best keepers in the world. Now I'm not saving that Pope is going to be ousting Joe hart any time soon from the England shirt.
What I am saying is that with the right coaching, you can improve.If Pope has a few shaky games at the start of the season , but comes through them, and gets better, there's no reason why he can't become our player of the season / most improved player.
I know it sounds nuts saying it now, but I saw enough v West Ham to see his potential, and improvement from previous performances.
When he first joined us, he had the Justin Bieber floppy haired look about him, he's now grown into a man, I'm sure he knows he has to continually up his game each season, without us getting on his case, and he will get better with age and good coaching.
Listen to your coach, and don't let me down Nick!
I don't get this De Gea/Hart turned out well so Pope could too. Should we have given Tamer Tuna more first team action because he might have turned into the next Lionel Messi ? You have to make educated assumptions.
Pope is 22, stop digging him out like a Simon Francis type of player. Pope will come good and wants to do that at Charlton. We have an unbelievably good player on our hands here for a 22year old and we just need to rely him with confidence. Being able to play football is one thing, getting the confidence from your peers is another and he is a player who needs just that. With confidence we've seen so many players excel into better players, now lets see this clean sheet man Pope!
cafc-4-life mentions Simon Francis and that's another player with fragile confidence who just got crappier and crappier throughout his Charlton time Like him I worry that Pope could be another who just for some reason or another cant crack it at Charlton but may have to leave to progress Personally I think there's a decent keeper in there but has he got the mental ability to turn it around at Charlton
Pope is 22, stop digging him out like a Simon Francis type of player. Pope will come good and wants to do that at Charlton. We have an unbelievably good player on our hands here for a 22year old and we just need to rely him with confidence. Being able to play football is one thing, getting the confidence from your peers is another and he is a player who needs just that. With confidence we've seen so many players excel into better players, now lets see this clean sheet man Pope!
I don't think you really "get" confidence from someone else, it's an internal mental attribute that you develop when you know you can do something. Being supportive of him might help him develop that, but it's really down to him and not as straightforward as simply blindly persevering with him and eventually he'll suddenly gain confidence.
I don't, based on this thread, think that anyone's saying that we don't support him or that we should boot him out the club, simply that putting him in goal v QPR/Forest/Derby might not be the best move (for either party).
The whole situation is pretty straight forward. We have an honest young keeper with plenty of potential who is well short on confidence each time he pulls on a Charlton shirt.
Most fans would recognize that and support him vocally from minute one on the opening day of the season to maximize his confidence and thus his performance too.
Not our fans however, quite the opposite.... Am fully expecting pelters as soon as Pope misplaces a kick, or fumbles a cross.....
For me the puzzling thing is how we are treating Dmitrovic. It seems to me that it was Pope rather than Marko who should have gone on loan, and why not to Alcorcon? I haven't seen much of Pope pre season but I've seen Marco live, and he doesn't lack confidence. The consensus among Serb fans was that he was one of the few players who emerged from the U21 tourno with credit, and that's a much tougher test than a friendly against Southend.
On the surface at least, baffling
agree, and the couple of times Dimi has played he has looked comfortable and hasn't let us down. Baffling idea.
The whole situation is pretty straight forward. We have an honest young keeper with plenty of potential who is well short on confidence each time he pulls on a Charlton shirt.
Most fans would recognize that and support him vocally from minute one on the opening day of the season to maximize his confidence and thus his performance too.
Not our fans however, quite the opposite.... Am fully expecting pelters as soon as Pope misplaces a kick, or fumbles a cross.....
You do our fans a disservice.
I think "most" (as in 51% + of Charlton fans inside the Valley) would support him from minute one. However if any player out on the pitch is costing us points - and I would suggest that this position offers the opportunity to cost us points probably more than any other - then you can't expect the fans to blindly support when clearly that player continuing is detrimental to the team.
Ketts on Dr Kish saying he doesn't expect any of the players on show at Roots Hall tonight to start at Bolton.
Hinting at a new keeper?
to quote from Dr Kish ... With the exception of Pope, it would be a surprise if any of those on view at Roots Hall, were in contention for a starting place on Friday.
The whole situation is pretty straight forward. We have an honest young keeper with plenty of potential who is well short on confidence each time he pulls on a Charlton shirt.
Most fans would recognize that and support him vocally from minute one on the opening day of the season to maximize his confidence and thus his performance too.
Not our fans however, quite the opposite.... Am fully expecting pelters as soon as Pope misplaces a kick, or fumbles a cross.....
Absolute rubbish. He's being questioned on an internet forum and given grief on Facebook. On Facebook it is the same 5-6 people constantly and on here 10-20 are questioning him.
The logic you are implying suggests we have about 40 fans.
This constant sniping and labelling a tiny minority of numpties as representative of our entire fanbase drives me mental.
Have a look around the web, every club has these discussions. We really aren't unique.
The whole situation is pretty straight forward. We have an honest young keeper with plenty of potential who is well short on confidence each time he pulls on a Charlton shirt.
Most fans would recognize that and support him vocally from minute one on the opening day of the season to maximize his confidence and thus his performance too.
Not our fans however, quite the opposite.... Am fully expecting pelters as soon as Pope misplaces a kick, or fumbles a cross.....
I didn't hear anyone giving him pelters for his poor error last night. A few chants comparing him with Deano when (yet another) clearance went into touch on the half way line and that was it. In the comedy circumstances of the goal (and how we all felt because of the general malaise in the team) he got treated more than decently IMO.
I want him to be a success, from his loan spells there is clearly a good keeper in there.
The concern is he is following the pattern that he has done every time he has got in the first team. A few good saves but a mistake costing us a goal every other game.
In pre-season there's been a soft one in Belgium and it sounds like another mistake tonight.
With Hendo so fragile I really think we need to bring an experienced hand in.
What I do wonder is why it is criminal to question Nick Popes capabilities, but completely acceptable to label Reza as shit even though their contributions in a Charlton shirt are not a million miles away (in pure performance and ability terms Reza has shown more IMO).
What I do wonder is why it is criminal to question Nick Popes capabilities, but completely acceptable to label Reza as shit even though their contributions in a Charlton shirt are not a million miles away (in pure performance and ability terms Reza has shown more IMO).
What I do wonder is why it is criminal to question Nick Popes capabilities, but completely acceptable to label Reza as shit even though their contributions in a Charlton shirt are not a million miles away (in pure performance and ability terms Reza has shown more IMO).
Reza wanted to leave to chase the cash in Kuwait last summer. Pope has never , as far as I'm aware, done that.
Do we know for a cast iron fact that he refused to play or did he ask for a move?
Anyway back to the point - I think that having a top goalkeeper is a massively underrated requirement. All our decent sides have had a safe pair or hands - if Hendo is injured then the worry for me is that we can't afford to just throw points away. I am on the fence with this one.
Do we know for a cast iron fact that he refused to play or did he ask for a move?
Anyway back to the point - I think that having a top goalkeeper is a massively underrated requirement. All our decent sides have had a safe pair or hands - if Hendo is injured then the worry for me is that we can't afford to just throw points away. I am on the fence with this one.
I agree with that.
Re Reza, I genuinely can't respect a guy of his age, straight out of a World Cup, going to play in Kuwait. If he comes back and plays well, all well and good, but I'm wholly dubious of both his play and his intentions
Do we know for a cast iron fact that he refused to play or did he ask for a move?
Anyway back to the point - I think that having a top goalkeeper is a massively underrated requirement. All our decent sides have had a safe pair or hands - if Hendo is injured then the worry for me is that we can't afford to just throw points away. I am on the fence with this one.
I agree with that.
Re Reza, I genuinely can't respect a guy of his age, straight out of a World Cup, going to play in Kuwait. If he comes back and plays well, all well and good, but I'm wholly dubious of both his play and his intentions
His record at the same age and same level is significantly better than Joe Hart's was
I wouldn't be surprised if the negative comments some of our numpty fans come out with are the reason he is lacking in confidence. Maybe if we were to Sing a song about him being "charltons number 1" it would have the opposite effect and boost him
you can't always compare him to Joe Hart's record though. It's like saying Franny Jeffers was doing a lot better at his age than Ian Wright.
Just for clarification, I'm 100% behind Nick Pope and will be cheering him on and willing him to do well.
I think he has the ability to become a Premiership goalie. He certainly has more ability than Rob Elliot imo.
What he appears to be lacking, is confidence/mental toughness. In the psf's, this doesn''t seemed to have greatly improved, from the reports I 've read.
All I'm saying is, we've got a very tough start to the season on paper and is it right to select him at this point in time ?
If he plays, I fully back him and would dearly love him to be a tremendous success.
Dmitrovic is a year older than Pope. This summer he has represented his country in a significant tournament (and indeed was selected as one of the "over-age allowance") Despite conceding a lot of goals, fans rated him highly (and Serbian fans don't hold back on their criticism, and didn't re his team-mates) We have lost our first choice keeper for a very challenging opening month, at least. There is no evidence that Nick Pope is ready to face that challenge (by evidence, I mean recent run of good games for us or another team in the Championship) The defence in front of the keeper is at least 50% new and untested Yet knowing all this, they send Dimi to Alcorcon.
There has to be someone else coming in on loan. There must be...
His record at the same age and same level is significantly better than Joe Hart's was
I wouldn't be surprised if the negative comments some of our numpty fans come out with are the reason he is lacking in confidence. Maybe if we were to Sing a song about him being "charltons number 1" it would have the opposite effect and boost him
you can't always compare him to Joe Hart's record though. It's like saying Franny Jeffers was doing a lot better at his age than Ian Wright.
I agree but it shows that he is clearly not the basket case some people are making him out to be.
I really think we will regret letting him go if we did so now
Just for clarification, I'm 100% behind Nick Pope and will be cheering him on and willing him to do well.
I think he has the ability to become a Premiership goalie. He certainly has more ability than Rob Elliot imo.
What he appears to be lacking, is confidence/mental toughness. In the psf's, this doesn''t seemed to have greatly improved, from the reports I 've read.
All I'm saying is, we've got a very tough start to the season on paper and is it right to select him at this point in time ?
If he plays, I fully back him and would dearly love him to be a tremendous success.
Came as bit of a surprise to me to see that Pope is actually very close to 100 competitive league games, though some of those came in the conference. He is well over the 100 mark when you include friendlies.
Either way, he has had a lot more exposure to first team football than I think meets the eye. He turned 23 in April - making him older than quite a few of our first teamers. I don't buy the idea that it is a drastically different curve for keepers than outfield players either.
Just pick you up on that last bit there! Most young keepers stay at their parent club being second or third choice and having quite a few loan spells for quite a few years!
Look at Henderson, we were his first first team gig at nearly 27 when he came to us... that is still fairly young for a keeper! The same is true for Hamer who was 25 when he joined us and button was 24 or 25 if you class Brentford as his first team chance...I'm just using the examples I know of but it is the same everywhere... Most keepers aren't ready before the age of 25 ( some exceptional ones are).
It's a position where experience and maturity are key.. mist keepers don't hit their prime till 30... when most outfield players are on the way down...
Comments
Like him I worry that Pope could be another who just for some reason or another cant crack it at Charlton but may have to leave to progress
Personally I think there's a decent keeper in there but has he got the mental ability to turn it around at Charlton
I don't, based on this thread, think that anyone's saying that we don't support him or that we should boot him out the club, simply that putting him in goal v QPR/Forest/Derby might not be the best move (for either party).
Kiely, Carson, Weaver, Randolph, Elliot, Hamer and Henderson have all made mistakes too.
We have an honest young keeper with plenty of potential who is well short on confidence each time he pulls on a Charlton shirt.
Most fans would recognize that and support him vocally from minute one on the opening day of the season to maximize his confidence and thus his performance too.
Not our fans however, quite the opposite....
Am fully expecting pelters as soon as Pope misplaces a kick, or fumbles a cross.....
I think "most" (as in 51% + of Charlton fans inside the Valley) would support him from minute one. However if any player out on the pitch is costing us points - and I would suggest that this position offers the opportunity to cost us points probably more than any other - then you can't expect the fans to blindly support when clearly that player continuing is detrimental to the team.
The logic you are implying suggests we have about 40 fans.
This constant sniping and labelling a tiny minority of numpties as representative of our entire fanbase drives me mental.
Have a look around the web, every club has these discussions. We really aren't unique.
Anyway back to the point - I think that having a top goalkeeper is a massively underrated requirement. All our decent sides have had a safe pair or hands - if Hendo is injured then the worry for me is that we can't afford to just throw points away. I am on the fence with this one.
Re Reza, I genuinely can't respect a guy of his age, straight out of a World Cup, going to play in Kuwait. If he comes back and plays well, all well and good, but I'm wholly dubious of both his play and his intentions
"It was Reza's decision to leave, He told us that, after the World Cup, he wanted to go to another country, and that was Kuwait.
"If a player wants to leave then it makes it difficult because their mind is already weak from wanting a transfer.
"That is why we made the decision to allow Reza to leave. "
I think he has the ability to become a Premiership goalie. He certainly has more ability than Rob Elliot imo.
What he appears to be lacking, is confidence/mental toughness. In the psf's, this doesn''t seemed to have greatly improved, from the reports I 've read.
All I'm saying is, we've got a very tough start to the season on paper and is it right to select him at this point in time ?
If he plays, I fully back him and would dearly love him to be a tremendous success.
Dmitrovic is a year older than Pope.
This summer he has represented his country in a significant tournament (and indeed was selected as one of the "over-age allowance") Despite conceding a lot of goals, fans rated him highly (and Serbian fans don't hold back on their criticism, and didn't re his team-mates)
We have lost our first choice keeper for a very challenging opening month, at least.
There is no evidence that Nick Pope is ready to face that challenge (by evidence, I mean recent run of good games for us or another team in the Championship)
The defence in front of the keeper is at least 50% new and untested
Yet knowing all this, they send Dimi to Alcorcon.
There has to be someone else coming in on loan. There must be...
I really think we will regret letting him go if we did so now
Look at Henderson, we were his first first team gig at nearly 27 when he came to us... that is still fairly young for a keeper! The same is true for Hamer who was 25 when he joined us and button was 24 or 25 if you class Brentford as his first team chance...I'm just using the examples I know of but it is the same everywhere... Most keepers aren't ready before the age of 25 ( some exceptional ones are).
It's a position where experience and maturity are key.. mist keepers don't hit their prime till 30... when most outfield players are on the way down...