Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Formula 1 Thread

19798100102103271

Comments

  • https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-group-statement-sale/

    Outright denial from McLaren that there's anything in the rumours 
  • MarcusH26 said:
    https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-group-statement-sale/

    Outright denial from McLaren that there's anything in the rumours 
    So it's happening then!
  • McLaren-Porsche has a history obviously, running together in the early 80's and delivering 2 constructor titles and 3 drivers titles in that time
  • A sky blue and papaya Gulf McLaren Porsche would be most welcome IMO
  • sam3110 said:
    McLaren-Porsche has a history obviously, running together in the early 80's and delivering 2 constructor titles and 3 drivers titles in that time
    Ah yes - the Tag badged engine back in those crazy days when cars were churning out 1000bhp+ and wheel spinning in 5th gear they had so much power.

    My favourite F1 era.
  • MarcusH26 said:
    https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-group-statement-sale/

    Outright denial from McLaren that there's anything in the rumours 
    I interpret that as being that they are fairly close to an engine deal / enterprise wide strategic partnership of some sort but not a purchase
  • Has been confirmed that Antonio Giovinazzi will be leaving Alfa Romeo at the end of the season.

    No surprise but is it really wise to piss off Jesus?

    I'm disappointed for him, he's not been spectacular this year, but Alfa are just shocking with their strategies and have equally screwed his race more than enough times.

    Its not been announced yet, so might have egg on my face. But they're not even replacing him with Theo Pourchaire (their OWN young driver), but are giving the seat to another pay driver who in four attempts has barely gotten close to winning F2.

    Certainly be interested to see what contract Zhou gets, it was rumoured that he was paying £30m for three years in that seat, which is seriously going to hinder Theo's progress into F1.
  • Has been confirmed that Antonio Giovinazzi will be leaving Alfa Romeo at the end of the season.

    No surprise but is it really wise to piss off Jesus?

    I'm disappointed for him, he's not been spectacular this year, but Alfa are just shocking with their strategies and have equally screwed his race more than enough times.

    Its not been announced yet, so might have egg on my face. But they're not even replacing him with Theo Pourchaire (their OWN young driver), but are giving the seat to another pay driver who in four attempts has barely gotten close to winning F2.

    Certainly be interested to see what contract Zhou gets, it was rumoured that he was paying £30m for three years in that seat, which is seriously going to hinder Theo's progress into F1.

    I've just read Fred Vasseurs comments and it sounds like he's got the 3 year deal that was rumoured , given he's talking about using the Chinese GP returning in 2023 to attract sponsors. 

    Massive massive shame for Pourchaire who looks a real talent despite the wrist injury he got in Baku. Do wonder if he's someone that other teams look at poaching. However when even the F2 champion elect in Oscar Piastri can only get a reserve role at Alpine it does make you wonder. 

    Zhou is fine but I've never quite rated him as a standout talent from the junior formulae. 
  • I wonder what all the witch hunters are going to say now about how they'll never release the footage because it will show Max turning right into Hamilton in a left hand corner?
  • Sponsored links:


  • sam3110 said:
    I wonder what all the witch hunters are going to say now about how they'll never release the footage because it will show Max turning right into Hamilton in a left hand corner?
    He didn't need to turn right into Hamilton in the first place though, so all those people are idiots.

    What I'd love to know is the speed they were each going into that corner

    Verstappen clearly tries to turn left but is a futile gesture because he's going too fast

    Or is it because he's blocking Hamilton and has been smart enough to leave enough grey area in his actions.

    Hopefully it gets Verstappen fans of their high horse thinking that "Max would never act like Hamilton"
  • All the way through the corner, Max is turning left, and once he gets close to the apex and the car starts to understeer and "wash out" towards the outside of the corner, he puts more lock in to try and make the corner. Also, as he takes the apex he is alongside Hamilton, who though he initially gets infront of Max before the corner, breaks earlier and is on the outside of the corner. Definitely not a penalty, and it's a pretty open and shut case
  • sam3110 said:
    All the way through the corner, Max is turning left, and once he gets close to the apex and the car starts to understeer and "wash out" towards the outside of the corner, he puts more lock in to try and make the corner. Also, as he takes the apex he is alongside Hamilton, who though he initially gets infront of Max before the corner, breaks earlier and is on the outside of the corner. Definitely not a penalty, and it's a pretty open and shut case
    Agreed. I’m no apologist for Max but he did all he could to avoid moving right.

    Racing incident, no penalty.
  • edited November 2021
    sam3110 said:
    All the way through the corner, Max is turning left, and once he gets close to the apex and the car starts to understeer and "wash out" towards the outside of the corner, he puts more lock in to try and make the corner. Also, as he takes the apex he is alongside Hamilton, who though he initially gets infront of Max before the corner, breaks earlier and is on the outside of the corner. Definitely not a penalty, and it's a pretty open and shut case
    He makes the same amount of effort to turn in as if he's on the driving line.

    You're right its not a penalty because he's made an "effort" to try and turn, but he knows what he was doing.

    Am sure the next time we'll have both Horner and Toto bitching about the other though
  • The rules are generally whoever is in front, and has the apex and the racing line, they are the ones "in control" and therefore the other racer is expected to leave the space and back out if necessary. Hamilton didn't fully overtake Max and therefore wasn't "in control" of the corner

    Obviously if there's no attempt to make the corner, then Max would have got a penalty fair and square, but I think the above footage, the circumstances (Max being on the dirty line beforehand) and other factors taken into consideration, Masi and the stewards are happy that it was just hard nosed racing.

    I'm not a fan of Max Verstappen, at all, but the vitriol thrown at him on here, in the press and on other formula 1 sites, I think is ridiculous
  • edited November 2021
    sam3110 said:
    The rules are generally whoever is in front, and has the apex and the racing line, they are the ones "in control" and therefore the other racer is expected to leave the space and back out if necessary. Hamilton didn't fully overtake Max and therefore wasn't "in control" of the corner

    Obviously if there's no attempt to make the corner, then Max would have got a penalty fair and square, but I think the above footage, the circumstances (Max being on the dirty line beforehand) and other factors taken into consideration, Masi and the stewards are happy that it was just hard nosed racing.

    I'm not a fan of Max Verstappen, at all, but the vitriol thrown at him on here, in the press and on other formula 1 sites, I think is ridiculous
    More because he just doesn't leave any space and thinks he can get away with doing whatever he wants

    He's effectively made that move four times this season: Spain | Imola | Britain | Brazil

    Three times he's forced Hamilton to back out of it, one time he didn't... well the vitriol that Lewis got was even worse wasnt it?

    Verstappen then had the cheek to complain about Hamilton returning the favour at Monza, saying he left no space.

    I don't want anyone to think I just don't like Max either - I thought his move to take the lead at Mexico was magnificent. I just dont like his entitled attitude, unfortunately that appears to be something that Red Bull have allowed him to think... And whilst I think he's still massive favourite for this year, is something I feel could stop him from winning more Championships.

    Interestingly I also think it could be something that could hinder George Russell as well, given how he acted at Imola.
  • ANYWAY, disappointed that Gio lost his seat to a mediocre money man in Zhou, it just doesn't feel right not having a slightly erratic, fast but not amazingly so, Italian on the grid. 
  • sam3110 said:
    ANYWAY, disappointed that Gio lost his seat to a mediocre money man in Zhou, it just doesn't feel right not having a slightly erratic, fast but not amazingly so, Italian on the grid. 
    Bit of an extra piss take though isn't it... Sticking him in a Formula E team called "Dragon"
  • Sponsored links:


  • sam3110 said:
    The rules are generally whoever is in front, and has the apex and the racing line, they are the ones "in control" and therefore the other racer is expected to leave the space and back out if necessary. Hamilton didn't fully overtake Max and therefore wasn't "in control" of the corner

    Obviously if there's no attempt to make the corner, then Max would have got a penalty fair and square, but I think the above footage, the circumstances (Max being on the dirty line beforehand) and other factors taken into consideration, Masi and the stewards are happy that it was just hard nosed racing.

    I'm not a fan of Max Verstappen, at all, but the vitriol thrown at him on here, in the press and on other formula 1 sites, I think is ridiculous
    I think all  drivers know where to brake and where to turn. Max knew Hamilton would have him on the corner so choose not to be out braked, in doing so he could not take the corner in track limits but I doubt that he cared to much about those. If he had taken out Hamilton the status quo would have remained and one less race to make up the points. I doubt he would have got a penalty as Horner said, two racers racing hard, (or words to that effect), no action was taken anyway which sort of backs it up. I imagine Max had that thought in his head from the race start. He wouldn't be the first driver to that, Senna v Prost was a very notable example and then Michael  Schumacher who would taken out his granny given the opportunity. Credit to Hamilton for avoiding a crash, not making too much of an issue over it and keeping a bloody good championship going another few weeks. 
  • Nicely calculated move that. Knew Lewis had him, broke late knowing he wouldn't make the corner and only locked the wheel more once Lewis had been forced off. Had no intention of making the apex.

    Masi has said this footage wasn't available at the time so Max could well be in for a retrospective punishment. He should be getting a 3 place grid penalty for Qatar, doubt he will though.
  • sam3110 said:
    ANYWAY, disappointed that Gio lost his seat to a mediocre money man in Zhou, it just doesn't feel right not having a slightly erratic, fast but not amazingly so, Italian on the grid. 
    Bit of an extra piss take though isn't it... Sticking him in a Formula E team called "Dragon"

    Good move for him to be honest, think he could do well in FE 
  • I think this appeal is more for show tbh..... I have never agreed with restropective penalties. Problem is Max could have been cruising and could argue had he been given a 5 sec penalty he would have pushed to maintain the gap.

    As I say I think it should have been a penalty at the time but not sure this appeal can really hold its ground.
  • edited November 2021
    Well it seems that on-board footage has come to light that was unavailable at the time.  So Mercedes are pushing the review : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59310486 - at the time it looked like Verstappen was pushing his luck and knew what he was doing.  Lewis had the most to lose in the event of a crash with them both getting DNFs.
  • There's no way the appeal will succeed. We all know Max knew what he was doing, but there's simply no proof in the new footage that he did anything more than overcook it into the corner and run wide. Without him actually turning into Hamilton there's no way you can proof it was a deliberate overcooking rather than a mistake made in the heat of the battle for position. All Max need say is that he saw Hamilton along-side and by looking right at Hamilton he slightly missed/misjudged his braking point/entry speed.
  • There's no way the appeal will succeed. We all know Max knew what he was doing, but there's simply no proof in the new footage that he did anything more than overcook it into the corner and run wide. Without him actually turning into Hamilton there's no way you can proof it was a deliberate overcooking rather than a mistake made in the heat of the battle for position. All Max need say is that he saw Hamilton along-side and by looking right at Hamilton he slightly missed/misjudged his braking point/entry speed.
    I think you are probably right.  It just feels at the moment that Hamilton is getting the decisions made against him.  I'm a fan of both as they are incredible drivers and both push their luck to win - but Verstappen knew Hamilton would get him eventually so probably should have settled for damage limitiation and not risk it.
  • So, are some now saying that because it wasn’t his intention to have driven him off the road then he’s not guilty of driving him off the road?
    That seems very odd to me, because intentional or not, that was the net result of his manoeuvre.
    Does this mean he will get away with a mistake…..which in all fairness and justification, many will describe as palpable recklessness at the very least.


Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!