Prats every single one of them majority of them don't have jobs, just a big bit of jealousy on successful people, they smashed the h&m store up on Oxford street which my sister was in at the time, grown men in masks get a fucking life.
just a load of half heads with nothing better to do, all wearing branded clothes on there iPhones and social media telling everyone how we shouldn't have a government and we should govern ourselves, and a few banners saying black lives matter. These are the type of people that will only be happy when this country is on its knees, wouldn't suprise me if a good few of them were involved at Euston a few weeks back fighting with police to let the refugees in, but violence is okay because it's a just cause and we've all got human rights.
LuckyReds. So I asume you will condemn equally forcefully all the protesters who go to the Valley at 2.30 on saturday to complain that Roland has appointed a manager that they dont like, has bought in footballers they don't see as sufficiently good for their team, and to tell the guy who bought the club how much more of his money they want spent on ítems of their own choosing. The similarities are there. If you want to complain about rioting, setting light to cars and attacking people, you have my 100% backing that it is cowardly and counter productive, and is probably the work of individuals who just take pleasure in doing that sort of shitty stuff. If you are going to complain about state education and Dance and Drama degrees, you tie up neatly with my point above. A well educated population brings wealth into the country. You say that why should those who don't go to university fund those who do? Maybe they should have chosen to go? Maybe they could'nt afford to as the grants have gone? Maybe the wealth of the others will pay taxes taht will benefit the rest of the population. This whole anti student thing is crap. Typical 'race to the bottom' politics to bring everyone down to the lowest posible level. PS Yes I have a degree in Fine Art
I'm not sure I want to live in a world where "cereal cafes" exist.
I don't know anything about, nor do I have opinions on, the mask-based protest tonight.
What's wrong with a cereal cafe? It's a gimmick. It's a place where you go once and tick it off the list, a bit like the M&M store. Just don't go there.
You lot seem to a know a lot about the protestors, why they're protesting and why they shouldn't bother. All based on what you saw on TV reports and ideas about what people are like and what they should do and think, or did any of you actually go along this evening? And @LuckyReds you seem to be having an especially bad time over it. Maybe you should give the TV a break or whatever other device you have been on if it gets you so wound up?
Erhh... I said I'd read the Occupy Manifesto and had pretty positive sentiments towards their actual cause.
In fact very little of my knowledge has come from the news. A heavy dose of twitter from those that were there as well as Facebook friends that were in attendance.
So yes, it does rile me up particularly badly because I know first hand how hypocritical some of them are. I can also see via Twitter how hypocritical the majority were.
It riles me up because its a waste of resources for a night, costs a lot of money for nothing, gets a good cause a bad name and essentially avoids confronting an important topic in an adult manner. It almost delegitimises a valid topic.
There's also 3 police officers that went to work and found themselves in hospital; doesn't that anger you?
Indeed any reason for a riot. A lot of police officers join for the same reason. It must be nice to give Tarquinn a battoning on the right side of the law and be paid for it.
The creative industries are the worth 71.4 billion pounds to the UK economy. We should fund more Dance and Drama students. Also Music, Art, Performing Arts, Media and Film Studies, related technologies and so on. It is not a clear cut argument to say we should fund students of, say, Politics Philosophy and Economics at Oxford before funding a student of Music Technology at the University of Bournemouth.
Seth mate, I apologise for any offence you took. Please don't think I was insulting the holders of those degrees, same goes for you Ken. There was no offence intended.
I've never specifically said they are less worthy than others.
That's a thought provoking figure too, £71 billion is quite an impressive figure and something that the country should be proud of.
LuckyReds. So I asume you will condemn equally forcefully all the protesters who go to the Valley at 2.30 on saturday to complain that Roland has appointed a manager that they dont like, has bought in footballers they don't see as sufficiently good for their team, and to tell the guy who bought the club how much more of his money they want spent on ítems of their own choosing. The similarities are there. If you want to complain about rioting, setting light to cars and attacking people, you have my 100% backing that it is cowardly and counter productive, and is probably the work of individuals who just take pleasure in doing that sort of shitty stuff. If you are going to complain about state education and Dance and Drama degrees, you tie up neatly with my point above. A well educated population brings wealth into the country. You say that why should those who don't go to university fund those who do? Maybe they should have chosen to go? Maybe they could'nt afford to as the grants have gone? Maybe the wealth of the others will pay taxes taht will benefit the rest of the population. This whole anti student thing is crap. Typical 'race to the bottom' politics to bring everyone down to the lowest posible level. PS Yes I have a degree in Fine Art
Please see my above comment mate, first up I just want to clarify there was never meant to be dig towards you.
Our own protest I will support on the principles that we know what want, we are taking legitimate action through other avenues and our conduct won't involve mindless intimidation and vandalism. No brainer and no comparison.
As you can see, my point is with regards to conduct. Even if I didn't agree with a given protest, I have a lot of respect for those who are prepared to speak up for a given cause. Its admirable.
My views on tuition fees arent relevant as they were with regards to a protest the day before. I was responding to an unconnected comment that was mentioned.
What I will say is this though: to say that those who didn't go should've chosen to go is complete and utter nonsense and entirely unsustainable. In the real world we need a variety of types of worker: a lot of them are quite eesential for the well running of a society and I don't think they should be forced to pay for others.
What about the large number of people who never use their degrees? I'm thinking of a mate with a Masters in Analytical Chemistry from a Russell Group university.. Who's now a police officer. He had to pay for his CKP too, if anything should be funded it should be the CKP.
What about friends that work on critical infrastructure like the railways, telecoms and so on. They came up the hard way through poorly paid apprenticeships but help modern society function. Should they be paying? Or are you saying they should've gone to university? If so, who's going to get you to work tomorrow and ensure you can work by maintaining electrical and communications infrastructure?
Its a fairytale world where everyone should go to university and a completely unsustainable reality.
Similarly you mention that the taxes balance this out. I'm not sure those jobless who went to university would say about that, or those self employed tradesmen who learnt their trade via apprenticeships.
The facts are simple:
- the current fees structure is sustainable - participation in HE has never been wider - the fees payment mechanism is incredibly lenient - too many degrees decreases the value of one - there are many essential occupations that don't require degrees, which aren't funded
This is simple and its not "anti student" whatever that means.
To develop my point above. A Google search says that the Creative industries are worth £71.8 billion to the UK economy, and manufacturing is worth £78 billion. Financial services are worth £126.9 billion. The point about the study of creative stuff is that without making mistakes, and experimentation being accepted (much like investment into new drugs for example), without study and practice, then it wouldn't be as strong as it is. I mean most top violinists had to start with a caterwauling racket initially. I also believe that the creative industries add value to our existence that can't be measures easily in monetary terms. Creative subjects are being decimated in schools as David Cameron goes on about the 'basics' when talking about new tests for seven year olds. What is basic anyway? We talk of a cohesive society, well take Drama for example. Imagining oneself in another's shoes or situation is so valuable. Indeed someone once said that to be able to understand the point of view, and needs of others is the essence of morality and the beginning of civilisation, sounds pretty basic to me.
"Manufacturing contributes £6.7tr to the global economy. Contrary to common belief, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently the 11th largest manufacturing nation in the world. Manufacturing makes up 11% of UK GVA and 54% of UK exports and directly employs 2.6 million people.
Despite the decline since the 1970s, when manufacturing contributed 25% of UK GDP, the UK ranks second globally in aerospace manufacturing. In the half-year from January to June 2014, the UK-based car industry had its best year in new car sales in 9 years.
Approximately 1.28 million new cars were sold during the period, a rise of 10% compared to the same period in 2013. While the chemical and pharmaceutical industries add £20m per day to the UK balance of trade. Underpinning these important statistics is an average annual productivity increase of 3.6% – two and a half times greater than the UK economy as a whole."
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the arts, alongside the Royal Family they contribute a massive amount to our revenue from tourism.
Indeed any reason for a riot. A lot of police officers join for the same reason. It must be nice to give Tarquinn a battoning on the right side of the law and be paid for it.
The police wouldn't have to respond if there was no riot.
Yep like the police officer who helped up the guy who got nudged over by an aston martin.
Or the police officer and horse that had a cone thrown at them.
Comments
Wish Iain Dowie would cover his face
If you want to complain about rioting, setting light to cars and attacking people, you have my 100% backing that it is cowardly and counter productive, and is probably the work of individuals who just take pleasure in doing that sort of shitty stuff. If you are going to complain about state education and Dance and Drama degrees, you tie up neatly with my point above. A well educated population brings wealth into the country. You say that why should those who don't go to university fund those who do? Maybe they should have chosen to go? Maybe they could'nt afford to as the grants have gone? Maybe the wealth of the others will pay taxes taht will benefit the rest of the population. This whole anti student thing is crap. Typical 'race to the bottom' politics to bring everyone down to the lowest posible level.
PS Yes I have a degree in Fine Art
In fact very little of my knowledge has come from the news. A heavy dose of twitter from those that were there as well as Facebook friends that were in attendance.
So yes, it does rile me up particularly badly because I know first hand how hypocritical some of them are. I can also see via Twitter how hypocritical the majority were.
It riles me up because its a waste of resources for a night, costs a lot of money for nothing, gets a good cause a bad name and essentially avoids confronting an important topic in an adult manner. It almost delegitimises a valid topic.
There's also 3 police officers that went to work and found themselves in hospital; doesn't that anger you?
I've never specifically said they are less worthy than others.
That's a thought provoking figure too, £71 billion is quite an impressive figure and something that the country should be proud of. Please see my above comment mate, first up I just want to clarify there was never meant to be dig towards you.
Our own protest I will support on the principles that we know what want, we are taking legitimate action through other avenues and our conduct won't involve mindless intimidation and vandalism. No brainer and no comparison.
As you can see, my point is with regards to conduct. Even if I didn't agree with a given protest, I have a lot of respect for those who are prepared to speak up for a given cause. Its admirable.
My views on tuition fees arent relevant as they were with regards to a protest the day before. I was responding to an unconnected comment that was mentioned.
What I will say is this though: to say that those who didn't go should've chosen to go is complete and utter nonsense and entirely unsustainable. In the real world we need a variety of types of worker: a lot of them are quite eesential for the well running of a society and I don't think they should be forced to pay for others.
What about the large number of people who never use their degrees? I'm thinking of a mate with a Masters in Analytical Chemistry from a Russell Group university.. Who's now a police officer. He had to pay for his CKP too, if anything should be funded it should be the CKP.
What about friends that work on critical infrastructure like the railways, telecoms and so on. They came up the hard way through poorly paid apprenticeships but help modern society function. Should they be paying? Or are you saying they should've gone to university? If so, who's going to get you to work tomorrow and ensure you can work by maintaining electrical and communications infrastructure?
Its a fairytale world where everyone should go to university and a completely unsustainable reality.
Similarly you mention that the taxes balance this out. I'm not sure those jobless who went to university would say about that, or those self employed tradesmen who learnt their trade via apprenticeships.
The facts are simple:
- the current fees structure is sustainable
- participation in HE has never been wider
- the fees payment mechanism is incredibly lenient
- too many degrees decreases the value of one
- there are many essential occupations that don't require degrees, which aren't funded
This is simple and its not "anti student" whatever that means.
A Google search says that the Creative industries are worth £71.8 billion to the UK economy, and manufacturing is worth £78 billion. Financial services are worth £126.9 billion.
The point about the study of creative stuff is that without making mistakes, and experimentation being accepted (much like investment into new drugs for example), without study and practice, then it wouldn't be as strong as it is. I mean most top violinists had to start with a caterwauling racket initially.
I also believe that the creative industries add value to our existence that can't be measures easily in monetary terms.
Creative subjects are being decimated in schools as David Cameron goes on about the 'basics' when talking about new tests for seven year olds.
What is basic anyway? We talk of a cohesive society, well take Drama for example. Imagining oneself in another's shoes or situation is so valuable. Indeed someone once said that to be able to understand the point of view, and needs of others is the essence of morality and the beginning of civilisation, sounds pretty basic to me.
My maths may be out !
"Manufacturing contributes £6.7tr to the global economy. Contrary to common belief, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently the 11th largest manufacturing nation in the world. Manufacturing makes up 11% of UK GVA and 54% of UK exports and directly employs 2.6 million people.
Despite the decline since the 1970s, when manufacturing contributed 25% of UK GDP, the UK ranks second globally in aerospace manufacturing. In the half-year from January to June 2014, the UK-based car industry had its best year in new car sales in 9 years.
Approximately 1.28 million new cars were sold during the period, a rise of 10% compared to the same period in 2013. While the chemical and pharmaceutical industries add £20m per day to the UK balance of trade. Underpinning these important statistics is an average annual productivity increase of 3.6% – two and a half times greater than the UK economy as a whole."
---------------------------------
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the arts, alongside the Royal Family they contribute a massive amount to our revenue from tourism.
Yep like the police officer who helped up the guy who got nudged over by an aston martin.
Or the police officer and horse that had a cone thrown at them.
Adele's re emergence this year is going to be a big earner not only for her but the UK.