I have been away all week and just trying to catch up. So apologies if I have missed a things. Firstly I gather 10,000 leaflets are being distributed outside the ground and we are being asked to hold them up after 2 minutes. Secondly balloons were being talked about to be released at the same time Thirdly the black and white scarf goes ahead Fourthly the pre match west stand demonstration goes ahead Fifthly we give the team as much support as possible
Please correct if I have this wrong for mine and others benefit.
A few questions Have the balloons been arranged? Is more funding needed? Are they being targeted - say to lower west, lower north and bottom half of east? Does anyone know any store that sell them? (will be too late to get them on-line)
Finally I have seen many different views of what we want out of this. From extremes of wanting KD and Meire out to just wanting enough funding to ensure relegation is survived. However the biggest issue seems to be "engaging" with fans.
Whatever people's individuals thought I would hope this is given massive support. One thing that is definitely for sure, is that the majority of us are deeply unhappy about the way our club is being mismanaged.
I had a really hard think about why I don’t care as much anymore. Or at least feel like I don’t. I honestly think it is the comms that have come out of the club. I just don’t feel the club cares about me, but more than that looks down on me as the past. When I say me – I mean me and many other fans who have stuck with the club through some dark days. I went to Sellout, I have been a Valley Gold member since its inception, I was a V.I.P member and lost my money on that without caring too much, and I even helped to buy Ronnie Moore! I have always felt that there was an unwritten vibe that the club respected that, now through the words of our CEO – not once but on a number of occasions, I feel the club isn’t mine anymore, but Roland’s. And it feels like it thinks I am a hindrance for having the nerve not to be happy about certain things.
Being part of a club is just that. Whether we are righties or lefties, rich or poor, intelligent or thick, we all have one thing in common. That is, we are all part of this great club. A club that gained the success it has in recent years because of its fans as well as its manager and owner. I look at the Valley party, and the disrespect the club affords certain key members of that initiative that meant we had a club and a home. I look at the knowledge that is criminally disrespected.
I am wondering, if it the owner’s desire to upset people and not care, or whether he has made one of the most rubbish CEO appointments imaginable or even whether it is a bit of both. But, when we feel we are all pushing together, whether it is going well on the pitch or not, it is when we are strongest. When I feel I am being lectured by a CEO who has no real knowledge of the championship or respect for the club’s history, my passion dies a bit. It can be resurrected, but respect has to be found from the top, and then, I am sure it will be reciprocated.
I also want to see an honest acknowledgement when mistakes have been made. That way, I would feel the same mistakes won’t be made again. But they are and when Miere tells us that all the managerial appointments were good ones, despite the number of managers we have had since the owner bought the club – well I feel she is either an idiot or patronising me! In some ways it would be better if it was the former, but it is more worrying too.
It's an excellent post Muttley. I sometimes wonder how much KM would benefit from the old Curbs new signing treatment. Get him in to spend the day with her, walk her around The Valley and explain how it came to be the stadium that we see today, the struggle and the progress built on a foundation of stability and togetherness. Explain the club's history and values and what it means to be at the helm of or to play for this club. And if she doesn't get it after that, then we shouldn't sign her...
Stop splitting hairs, all stick together. Our club is suffering under current management. RD has a strange way to run a club, KM is inexperienced, making bad decisions. Both are responsible for treating the true CAFC with contempt. Get out of our club and let people that know how to run a championship side do it.
Yes, absolutely correct.
It's amazing that after two wins people are prepared to give Fraeye a chance.
Equally amazing that after 2 defeats in his first 2 games people were prepared to write him off.
"Amazing", really? A bloke from the obscurity of the Belgian regional lower leagues is brought in and loses his first two games and its "amazing" that people wrote him off?
Right.
Yeah, sorry you're completely right mate. I need to be yearning for the days when we appoint some recycled has been British manager who enjoyed success 10 years ago and signs such players as Pawel Abbott and Gary Docherty together with Cranie style loans.
The Spell it Out campaign certainly speaks for more than 2% of fans but there seems to be the assumption that it speaks for a large majority. No doubt the Trust surveys would support that but it's only really going to be the hacked off fans that respond to such questionnaires.
This is not like the Back to the Valley campaign. Fans were unanimous in the need to return to our historic home. Who wouldn't have been supportive of that?
Spell it Out demands more and greater depth of communication. I support that and feel the club are moving towards this, albeit slowly. However, many of the comments here seem to be interpreting the campaign as being for the fans to choose the type of manager we appoint, players we sign and players we get rid of. That, to me, is unrealistic.
When it moves to not respecting fans who have a different view I believe it will lose it's effectiveness. The more people that tell me how I should think, the more likely I am not to think that way, particularly if I'm attacked for my view.
Bad runs of results and form are nothing new to us, Curbs signed a few duff players in amongst the gems, as long as I've been a supporter we've always sold our best young players, viperous players (no matter how good) have been got rid of. I'm really not sure it's that much worse now than it's ever been.
Does it mean that I'm RD/KM's biggest fan? No, to be honest I still think it's quite early and they're learning so my jury is very much out. Do I support the principles of better communication with the fans? Yes of course. Do I think we should 'get the Belgians out' which seems to be the mixed message in the Black and White campaign? No, that doesn't speak for me which is why I won't buy a scarf or hold up a leaflet.
I await a hilarious 'Thanks Roland' response.
Spot on. Pretty much my view. Thanks.
For me, well-organised displays like the 2% one tomorrow will ensure there is no doubt that the supporters aren't going to go away with lip service. I agree that there are good signs that the penny has started to drop with regards to fan engagement - and particularly how damaging a mutual lack of trust has been and will be moving forward. I also agree that we shouldn't expect to determine football policy, although it is a football club and our most successful years coincided with an unprecedented openness regarding decisions on that side. Such decisions were also made with the club's history and culture to the fore - as Curbs' insistence on showing that video to new and prospective signings demonstrated.
Of course the big difference then was that we had a manager we could stick with, and since Powell we've not found that to be the case. I'd love the club to find the right manager for the long term, because I think that would not only improve their football and financial success but it would avoid the sort of contentious decisions that are having to be made every six months.
I wonder if Fraeye might have been welcomed differently had he been replacing a Powell moving on to bigger and better things, for example. Instead, he's become the epitome of everything that's wrong with managerial decisions, even though he may yet prove to be just right for us.
The 2% is an excellent focus for this time, in my view. Peaceful, astute, and seems in keeping with the way we do things around here.
This is what gets me with the the current ownership. They just don't get the fact that such loyal fans are disheartened with the club. We were known as a club with close connections with the fans. We've lost our soul, and I cant see how we will get this back.
I had a really hard think about why I don’t care as much anymore. Or at least feel like I don’t. I honestly think it is the comms that have come out of the club. I just don’t feel the club cares about me, but more than that looks down on me as the past. When I say me – I mean me and many other fans who have stuck with the club through some dark days. I went to Sellout, I have been a Valley Gold member since its inception, I was a V.I.P member and lost my money on that without caring too much, and I even helped to buy Ronnie Moore! I have always felt that there was an unwritten vibe that the club respected that, now through the words of our CEO – not once but on a number of occasions, I feel the club isn’t mine anymore, but Roland’s. And it feels like it thinks I am a hindrance for having the nerve not to be happy about certain things.
Being part of a club is just that. Whether we are righties or lefties, rich or poor, intelligent or thick, we all have one thing in common. That is, we are all part of this great club. A club that gained the success it has in recent years because of its fans as well as its manager and owner. I look at the Valley party, and the disrespect the club affords certain key members of that initiative that meant we had a club and a home. I look at the knowledge that is criminally disrespected.
I am wondering, if it the owner’s desire to upset people and not care, or whether he has made one of the most rubbish CEO appointments imaginable or even whether it is a bit of both. But, when we feel we are all pushing together, whether it is going well on the pitch or not, it is when we are strongest. When I feel I am being lectured by a CEO who has no real knowledge of the championship or respect for the club’s history, my passion dies a bit. It can be resurrected, but respect has to be found from the top, and then, I am sure it will be reciprocated.
I also want to see an honest acknowledgement when mistakes have been made. That way, I would feel the same mistakes won’t be made again. But they are and when Miere tells us that all the managerial appointments were good ones, despite the number of managers we have had since the owner bought the club – well I feel she is either an idiot or patronising me! In some ways it would be better if it was the former, but it is more worrying too.
It's an excellent post Muttley. I sometimes wonder how much KM would benefit from the old Curbs new signing treatment. Get him in to spend the day with her, walk her around The Valley and explain how it came to be the stadium that we see today, the struggle and the progress built on a foundation of stability and togetherness. Explain the club's history and values and what it means to be at the helm of or to play for this club. And if she doesn't get it after that, then we shouldn't sign her...
Good point, Curbishley had a completely different job to our current managers. Powell was our last manager in that sense. Both men, whatever you think about their managerial skills, understood that supporters were an important part of the team. Curbishley gave the supporters the equivalent of post-match team talks – I remember he could be harsh- rarely, but at times when our standards dropped – like the booing of Kim Grant in a 5-0 victory!! But he took us with him.
Alex Ferguson once commented that the Valley was one of the most intimidating places to visit. People of a certain age won’t remember that. I’m not sure my 14 year old son believes me when I tell him. When we went on our rise, the club appointed fans to key jobs, the rest of us sucked the ball in the net, there was a buzz about the whole place that enabled us to achieve more than our resources should have allowed. Having heroes like Rufus, Superclive, Robbo, Kinsella….god you could name so many more. Robbo, a cheap replacement for the more talented Robert Lee who would run through a brick wall for the cause and we loved him for it. The secret…. There wasn’t one. Other than the owner – Richard Murray – having the guts to back Curbs and make him sole manager, when Gritty was the Charlton man, and Curbs understanding the club and using its unique attributes to chart success. There was a brief time in 2003-4 when we were genuinely the fourth bloody best team in the country – Class Jenson, Paulo Di CAnio, Scott Parker, Matt Holland, Jason Euell, Deano, The herminator, Luke Young, the list goes on. We were quality.
That is what Powell understood, being part of the Curbishley set-up, when he said he wanted to give fans their Charlton back. What is ‘our Charlton’. That is ‘our Charlton’. Players giving their all, fans united, all fighting together for a common cause. Now we as fans seem to have split into factions, the club has lost something (not entirely Duchatelet’s fault) and there isn’t the same aura about the place.
Euell will understand what ‘our Charlton’ is and means. And I ideally hope our owner and CEO works it out as if we start looking for it again, we might just find it. That is why history is important. You learn from history.
Stop splitting hairs, all stick together. Our club is suffering under current management. RD has a strange way to run a club, KM is inexperienced, making bad decisions. Both are responsible for treating the true CAFC with contempt. Get out of our club and let people that know how to run a championship side do it.
Yes, absolutely correct.
It's amazing that after two wins people are prepared to give Fraeye a chance.
Equally amazing that after 2 defeats in his first 2 games people were prepared to write him off.
"Amazing", really? A bloke from the obscurity of the Belgian regional lower leagues is brought in and loses his first two games and its "amazing" that people wrote him off?
Right.
Yeah, sorry you're completely right mate. I need to be yearning for the days when we appoint some recycled has been British manager who enjoyed success 10 years ago and signs such players as Pawel Abbott and Gary Docherty together with Cranie style loans.
The Spell it Out campaign certainly speaks for more than 2% of fans but there seems to be the assumption that it speaks for a large majority. No doubt the Trust surveys would support that but it's only really going to be the hacked off fans that respond to such questionnaires.
This is not like the Back to the Valley campaign. Fans were unanimous in the need to return to our historic home. Who wouldn't have been supportive of that?
Spell it Out demands more and greater depth of communication. I support that and feel the club are moving towards this, albeit slowly. However, many of the comments here seem to be interpreting the campaign as being for the fans to choose the type of manager we appoint, players we sign and players we get rid of. That, to me, is unrealistic.
When it moves to not respecting fans who have a different view I believe it will lose it's effectiveness. The more people that tell me how I should think, the more likely I am not to think that way, particularly if I'm attacked for my view.
Bad runs of results and form are nothing new to us, Curbs signed a few duff players in amongst the gems, as long as I've been a supporter we've always sold our best young players, viperous players (no matter how good) have been got rid of. I'm really not sure it's that much worse now than it's ever been.
Does it mean that I'm RD/KM's biggest fan? No, to be honest I still think it's quite early and they're learning so my jury is very much out. Do I support the principles of better communication with the fans? Yes of course. Do I think we should 'get the Belgians out' which seems to be the mixed message in the Black and White campaign? No, that doesn't speak for me which is why I won't buy a scarf or hold up a leaflet.
I await a hilarious 'Thanks Roland' response.
Spot on. Pretty much my view. Thanks.
For me, well-organised displays like the 2% one tomorrow will ensure there is no doubt that the supporters aren't going to go away with lip service. I agree that there are good signs that the penny has started to drop with regards to fan engagement - and particularly how damaging a mutual lack of trust has been and will be moving forward. I also agree that we shouldn't expect to determine football policy, although it is a football club and our most successful years coincided with an unprecedented openness regarding decisions on that side. Such decisions were also made with the club's history and culture to the fore - as Curbs' insistence on showing that video to new and prospective signings demonstrated.
Of course the big difference then was that we had a manager we could stick with, and since Powell we've not found that to be the case. I'd love the club to find the right manager for the long term, because I think that would not only improve their football and financial success but it would avoid the sort of contentious decisions that are having to be made every six months.
I wonder if Fraeye might have been welcomed differently had he been replacing a Powell moving on to bigger and better things, for example. Instead, he's become the epitome of everything that's wrong with managerial decisions, even though he may yet prove to be just right for us.
The 2% is an excellent focus for this time, in my view. Peaceful, astute, and seems in keeping with the way we do things around here.
I absolutely hear what you say but I don't think every one is interpreting the objective of the campaign in this way.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me is the Watt situation. I think he has a very special talent and love to watch his great moments. But there is clearly a problem. The players have more than alluded to it and it has been visible to fans in both his on field fitness and attitude. Let's face it, with his level of skill, if there wasn't an issue he'd be at a much higher level. Yet someone does something about it and we get a bunch of posts declaring that his loan is unquestionable proof that RD/KM/KF don't know what they're doing. Selling Kermogant was a mistake and I think KM has more or less admitted as much. Watt to Cardiff may not be the cut and dried error that some appear to be portraying it as.
Perhaps they've seen enough in training to believe Vaz Te and Lookman are more than enough to fill the gap. I've not seen Vaz Te but Lookman is clearly special and doesn't seem to be carrying the oversized bundle of baggage that Watt does. And when I say 'they've seen enough' I include Euell who is now heavily involved with the first team. KF may not have any pedigree but with his brave change of formation and handling of Watt he certainly is not afraid to address issues.
My point is that many are interpreting this campaign as removing the RD regime to improve football decisions. With West Ham stopping at nothing to get more Kent supporters and Crystal Palace attracting investment to make them a South London franchise I'm not sure we'd have a huge queue of buyers if RD did go. The media will also happily portray the campaign as RD out.
All the time there is this confused understanding of what Spell it Out means I won't support it. The confusion is not the fault of the people running the campaign but there is too large a body of fans at the moment wanting to turn everything into a 'Get the Belgians out' message.
All the time there is this confused understanding of what Spell it Out means I won't support it. The confusion is not the fault of the people running the campaign but there is too large a body of fans at the moment wanting to turn everything into a 'Get the Belgians out' message.
It's better to have no opinion on something than an uninformed one.
Stop splitting hairs, all stick together. Our club is suffering under current management. RD has a strange way to run a club, KM is inexperienced, making bad decisions. Both are responsible for treating the true CAFC with contempt. Get out of our club and let people that know how to run a championship side do it.
Yes, absolutely correct.
It's amazing that after two wins people are prepared to give Fraeye a chance.
Equally amazing that after 2 defeats in his first 2 games people were prepared to write him off.
"Amazing", really? A bloke from the obscurity of the Belgian regional lower leagues is brought in and loses his first two games and its "amazing" that people wrote him off?
Right.
Yeah, sorry you're completely right mate. I need to be yearning for the days when we appoint some recycled has been British manager who enjoyed success 10 years ago and signs such players as Pawel Abbott and Gary Docherty together with Cranie style loans.
The Spell it Out campaign certainly speaks for more than 2% of fans but there seems to be the assumption that it speaks for a large majority. No doubt the Trust surveys would support that but it's only really going to be the hacked off fans that respond to such questionnaires.
This is not like the Back to the Valley campaign. Fans were unanimous in the need to return to our historic home. Who wouldn't have been supportive of that?
Spell it Out demands more and greater depth of communication. I support that and feel the club are moving towards this, albeit slowly. However, many of the comments here seem to be interpreting the campaign as being for the fans to choose the type of manager we appoint, players we sign and players we get rid of. That, to me, is unrealistic.
When it moves to not respecting fans who have a different view I believe it will lose it's effectiveness. The more people that tell me how I should think, the more likely I am not to think that way, particularly if I'm attacked for my view.
Bad runs of results and form are nothing new to us, Curbs signed a few duff players in amongst the gems, as long as I've been a supporter we've always sold our best young players, viperous players (no matter how good) have been got rid of. I'm really not sure it's that much worse now than it's ever been.
Does it mean that I'm RD/KM's biggest fan? No, to be honest I still think it's quite early and they're learning so my jury is very much out. Do I support the principles of better communication with the fans? Yes of course. Do I think we should 'get the Belgians out' which seems to be the mixed message in the Black and White campaign? No, that doesn't speak for me which is why I won't buy a scarf or hold up a leaflet.
I await a hilarious 'Thanks Roland' response.
You have mentioned various points on this post, some of which I feel are with mixed messages. Maybe this is due to the "Spell it out" campaign being muddled with the protest outside the West Stand?? This protest however had nothing whatsoever to do with Joe. What Joe has picked up on from the protest was the response from Katrien M that it was only 2% of the fan base that were discontent. Another misguided communication from our CEO, which after all, is what the Spell it out in B&W is mainly about.
I am sure his views are similarly aligned to @MuttleyCAFC with his thoughts which is why he has bothered to try and do something about it. We should be supportive of this young mans enthusiasm to try and get this Club into better shape. Correct me if I am wrong but he has never said he wants Roland out or Belgians out? This has never been said in the Black and White Campaign and it states specifically on the 2% flyer that it also has nothing to do with Nationality . Joe has though, been vocal that a club the stature of CAFC has employed a Manager from the lower regional league in Belgium which at the outset most found laughable. That said, he has wished the new Manager the best of luck, as Karel Fraeye was never going to say no to being offered this position - it is not Karel's fault and I am positive he is doing everything he can do to get us 3 points every week.
Joe is 18 years old, and he has thus far started a Twitter Campaign, organised threads on this forum (which in the vast majority have been supportive), organised the selling of Black and White Scarfs, organised B&W literature against Sheffield and organised the distribution of such, gone to MK Dons (awful night) and Birmingham FC to do the same, attended and presented at the Trusts AGM, organised the 2% literature and funding for such and now is desperately trying to get volunteers to distribute. Alongside contacting the Media through newspapers, radio interviews and lastly SKY Television. All in a mature and rational way.
If you do not wish to support Charente so be it, maybe you are right that other supporters have muddied @Addicted2TheReds campaign? but does that not happen in many campaigns? If you know what the campaign is about and agree with it, then why not support it regardless of others?
Personally, I will be helping Joe on Saturday as what I would say, is that Joe may be making a difference to how CAFC is being run top down and for that I really do applaud him. It is a lot easier to do nothing and be dismissive. Muttley's post really resonated with myself especially the opening line "I had a really hard think about why I don’t care as much anymore." I really felt that I was writing it and have watched CAFC for 40+ years. Such a shame.
We do not want our young future generation of supporters feeling like this, do we?
PS. Is it going to be called Black and White Saturday now? ;-)
Stop splitting hairs, all stick together. Our club is suffering under current management. RD has a strange way to run a club, KM is inexperienced, making bad decisions. Both are responsible for treating the true CAFC with contempt. Get out of our club and let people that know how to run a championship side do it.
Yes, absolutely correct.
It's amazing that after two wins people are prepared to give Fraeye a chance.
Equally amazing that after 2 defeats in his first 2 games people were prepared to write him off.
"Amazing", really? A bloke from the obscurity of the Belgian regional lower leagues is brought in and loses his first two games and its "amazing" that people wrote him off?
Right.
Yeah, sorry you're completely right mate. I need to be yearning for the days when we appoint some recycled has been British manager who enjoyed success 10 years ago and signs such players as Pawel Abbott and Gary Docherty together with Cranie style loans.
The Spell it Out campaign certainly speaks for more than 2% of fans but there seems to be the assumption that it speaks for a large majority. No doubt the Trust surveys would support that but it's only really going to be the hacked off fans that respond to such questionnaires.
This is not like the Back to the Valley campaign. Fans were unanimous in the need to return to our historic home. Who wouldn't have been supportive of that?
Spell it Out demands more and greater depth of communication. I support that and feel the club are moving towards this, albeit slowly. However, many of the comments here seem to be interpreting the campaign as being for the fans to choose the type of manager we appoint, players we sign and players we get rid of. That, to me, is unrealistic.
When it moves to not respecting fans who have a different view I believe it will lose it's effectiveness. The more people that tell me how I should think, the more likely I am not to think that way, particularly if I'm attacked for my view.
Bad runs of results and form are nothing new to us, Curbs signed a few duff players in amongst the gems, as long as I've been a supporter we've always sold our best young players, viperous players (no matter how good) have been got rid of. I'm really not sure it's that much worse now than it's ever been.
Does it mean that I'm RD/KM's biggest fan? No, to be honest I still think it's quite early and they're learning so my jury is very much out. Do I support the principles of better communication with the fans? Yes of course. Do I think we should 'get the Belgians out' which seems to be the mixed message in the Black and White campaign? No, that doesn't speak for me which is why I won't buy a scarf or hold up a leaflet.
I await a hilarious 'Thanks Roland' response.
Spot on. Pretty much my view. Thanks.
For me, well-organised displays like the 2% one tomorrow will ensure there is no doubt that the supporters aren't going to go away with lip service. I agree that there are good signs that the penny has started to drop with regards to fan engagement - and particularly how damaging a mutual lack of trust has been and will be moving forward. I also agree that we shouldn't expect to determine football policy, although it is a football club and our most successful years coincided with an unprecedented openness regarding decisions on that side. Such decisions were also made with the club's history and culture to the fore - as Curbs' insistence on showing that video to new and prospective signings demonstrated.
Of course the big difference then was that we had a manager we could stick with, and since Powell we've not found that to be the case. I'd love the club to find the right manager for the long term, because I think that would not only improve their football and financial success but it would avoid the sort of contentious decisions that are having to be made every six months.
I wonder if Fraeye might have been welcomed differently had he been replacing a Powell moving on to bigger and better things, for example. Instead, he's become the epitome of everything that's wrong with managerial decisions, even though he may yet prove to be just right for us.
The 2% is an excellent focus for this time, in my view. Peaceful, astute, and seems in keeping with the way we do things around here.
I absolutely hear what you say but I don't think every one is interpreting the objective of the campaign in this way.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me is the Watt situation. I think he has a very special talent and love to watch his great moments. But there is clearly a problem. The players have more than alluded to it and it has been visible to fans in both his on field fitness and attitude. Let's face it, with his level of skill, if there wasn't an issue he'd be at a much higher level. Yet someone does something about it and we get a bunch of posts declaring that his loan is unquestionable proof that RD/KM/KF don't know what they're doing. Selling Kermogant was a mistake and I think KM has more or less admitted as much. Watt to Cardiff may not be the cut and dried error that some appear to be portraying it as.
Perhaps they've seen enough in training to believe Vaz Te and Lookman are more than enough to fill the gap. I've not seen Vaz Te but Lookman is clearly special and doesn't seem to be carrying the oversized bundle of baggage that Watt does. And when I say 'they've seen enough' I include Euell who is now heavily involved with the first team. KF may not have any pedigree but with his brave change of formation and handling of Watt he certainly is not afraid to address issues.
My point is that many are interpreting this campaign as removing the RD regime to improve football decisions. With West Ham stopping at nothing to get more Kent supporters and Crystal Palace attracting investment to make them a South London franchise I'm not sure we'd have a huge queue of buyers if RD did go. The media will also happily portray the campaign as RD out.
All the time there is this confused understanding of what Spell it Out means I won't support it. The confusion is not the fault of the people running the campaign but there is too large a body of fans at the moment wanting to turn everything into a 'Get the Belgians out' message.
There will always be differing degrees about which we feel strongly out. On one side, it will be fans wanting them to do better, on the other side it will be getting them out. As we are all individuals, getting agreement on the actual solution will be difficult. But does it really matter? If the club addresses perceived issues, people will fall into line. If it doesn't the gulf between club and fans will grow. And whilst ultimately, the owner can sell up and walk away - we can't. I am Charlton Nil till I die! We all should want the same thing after all. The real question is, are 98% happy with the way the club has been run? - and that isn't just on the playing side. And it is allowing for some positives too.
Looking forward to tomorrow and hoping that everyone supports the hard work of those involved in arranging all this. Keep it within the boundaries guys and lets hope it is the catalyst for improvement on and off the pitch. COYRS !!
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
Yes, tomorrow is about making a point and supporting the team to victory. Football fans are a fickle bunch and those in power can choose to ignore, or choose to listen, but if they do the latter, they will soon gain popularity. I am reminded of Powell’s emotional last post season speech and the fans singing we’ve got our Charlton back. I wasn’t 100% sure we were there, but it felt like we were getting it back for certain. What RD and KM need to understand, is that the reason we lost it again up to the point they took over, was that the rug was pulled away due to having no Cash (in both senses of the word Cash). They took over at a low point but the club was on an upwards trajectory, not long before the money ran out! I don’t think KM fully appreciates/understands that. It was a crazy, uniquely bad situation when they took over, but the club was building up on the Charlton model and we all had a tear in our eyes on that post season evening before it all went wrong. That is the point the owner has to improve from. How can we be grateful and happy because things are better than they were under a completely potless Jimenez and Slater? It's like people getting £3 per hour being happy because they aren't getting £2 per hour!
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
OK, but where's the evidence for what you "feel" ?
Stop splitting hairs, all stick together. Our club is suffering under current management. RD has a strange way to run a club, KM is inexperienced, making bad decisions. Both are responsible for treating the true CAFC with contempt. Get out of our club and let people that know how to run a championship side do it.
Yes, absolutely correct.
It's amazing that after two wins people are prepared to give Fraeye a chance.
Equally amazing that after 2 defeats in his first 2 games people were prepared to write him off.
"Amazing", really? A bloke from the obscurity of the Belgian regional lower leagues is brought in and loses his first two games and its "amazing" that people wrote him off?
Right.
Yeah, sorry you're completely right mate. I need to be yearning for the days when we appoint some recycled has been British manager who enjoyed success 10 years ago and signs such players as Pawel Abbott and Gary Docherty together with Cranie style loans.
The Spell it Out campaign certainly speaks for more than 2% of fans but there seems to be the assumption that it speaks for a large majority. No doubt the Trust surveys would support that but it's only really going to be the hacked off fans that respond to such questionnaires.
This is not like the Back to the Valley campaign. Fans were unanimous in the need to return to our historic home. Who wouldn't have been supportive of that?
Spell it Out demands more and greater depth of communication. I support that and feel the club are moving towards this, albeit slowly. However, many of the comments here seem to be interpreting the campaign as being for the fans to choose the type of manager we appoint, players we sign and players we get rid of. That, to me, is unrealistic.
When it moves to not respecting fans who have a different view I believe it will lose it's effectiveness. The more people that tell me how I should think, the more likely I am not to think that way, particularly if I'm attacked for my view.
Bad runs of results and form are nothing new to us, Curbs signed a few duff players in amongst the gems, as long as I've been a supporter we've always sold our best young players, viperous players (no matter how good) have been got rid of. I'm really not sure it's that much worse now than it's ever been.
Does it mean that I'm RD/KM's biggest fan? No, to be honest I still think it's quite early and they're learning so my jury is very much out. Do I support the principles of better communication with the fans? Yes of course. Do I think we should 'get the Belgians out' which seems to be the mixed message in the Black and White campaign? No, that doesn't speak for me which is why I won't buy a scarf or hold up a leaflet.
I await a hilarious 'Thanks Roland' response.
You have mentioned various points on this post, some of which I feel are with mixed messages. Maybe this is due to the "Spell it out" campaign being muddled with the protest outside the West Stand?? This protest however had nothing whatsoever to do with Joe. What Joe has picked up on from the protest was the response from Katrien M that it was only 2% of the fan base that were discontent. Another misguided communication from our CEO, which after all, is what the Spell it out in B&W is mainly about.
I am sure his views are similarly aligned to @MuttleyCAFC with his thoughts which is why he has bothered to try and do something about it. We should be supportive of this young mans enthusiasm to try and get this Club into better shape. Correct me if I am wrong but he has never said he wants Roland out or Belgians out? This has never been said in the Black and White Campaign and it states specifically on the 2% flyer that it also has nothing to do with Nationality . Joe has though, been vocal that a club the stature of CAFC has employed a Manager from the lower regional league in Belgium which at the outset most found laughable. That said, he has wished the new Manager the best of luck, as Karel Fraeye was never going to say no to being offered this position - it is not Karel's fault and I am positive he is doing everything he can do to get us 3 points every week.
Joe is 18 years old, and he has thus far started a Twitter Campaign, organised threads on this forum (which in the vast majority have been supportive), organised the selling of Black and White Scarfs, organised B&W literature against Sheffield and organised the distribution of such, gone to MK Dons (awful night) and Birmingham FC to do the same, attended and presented at the Trusts AGM, organised the 2% literature and funding for such and now is desperately trying to get volunteers to distribute. Alongside contacting the Media through newspapers, radio interviews and lastly SKY Television. All in a mature and rational way.
If you do not wish to support Charente so be it, maybe you are right that other supporters have muddied @Addicted2TheReds campaign? but does that not happen in many campaigns? If you know what the campaign is about and agree with it, then why not support it regardless of others?
Personally, I will be helping Joe on Saturday as what I would say, is that Joe may be making a difference to how CAFC is being run top down and for that I really do applaud him. It is a lot easier to do nothing and be dismissive. Muttley's post really resonated with myself especially the opening line "I had a really hard think about why I don’t care as much anymore." I really felt that I was writing it and have watched CAFC for 40+ years. Such a shame.
We do not want our young future generation of supporters feeling like this, do we?
PS. Is it going to be called Black and White Saturday now? ;-)
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
OK, but where's the evidence for what you "feel" ?
He doesn't really need to justify it. As much as I disagree with him, his opinion is his opinion.
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
I have to say that is a strange view.
Many of here attacking Spell it out were doing so on the basis that it wasn't radical enough and that it wasn't about RD out.
Now that Spell it out is working (we've already seen some small movement from the CEO on T20k) and despite you agreeing with it you won't support it.
Each to their own but I still think that is a strange take on it.
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
I have to say that is a strange view.
Many of here attacking Spell it out were doing so on the basis that it wasn't radical enough and that it wasn't about RD out.
Now that Spell it out is working (we've already seen some small movement from the CEO on T20k) and despite you agreeing with it you won't support it.
Each to their own but I still think that is a strange take on it.
Just offering my view on things which most on here find strange, whatever that means.
Not seeking to dissuade or back up my thoughts with empirical evidence but I wouldn't mind guessing (yes, I'm only guessing Hex) there is a silent majority that is more relaxed about the situation than you'd imagine.
I'll leave it for now 'cos it's obviously annoying but just beware of groupthink.
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
so Charente you understand and agree with Joes campaign but because misinformed others are reading it wrong you won't support it ...... I mean really .....
I commend Joe's initiative but, no, I don't want to be supporting what I feel it's become.
OK, but where's the evidence for what you "feel" ?
He doesn't really need to justify it. As much as I disagree with him, his opinion is his opinion.
True. It does seem a common theme with the rose-tinted brigade, though.
Was looking forward to joining in with this but unfortunately I've got a viral infection so I won't be able to attend. Good luck to everyone that's getting involved.
Also, well done to the lad who came up with the idea.
Stop splitting hairs, all stick together. Our club is suffering under current management. RD has a strange way to run a club, KM is inexperienced, making bad decisions. Both are responsible for treating the true CAFC with contempt. Get out of our club and let people that know how to run a championship side do it.
Yes, absolutely correct.
It's amazing that after two wins people are prepared to give Fraeye a chance.
Equally amazing that after 2 defeats in his first 2 games people were prepared to write him off.
This fella spent five years in Belgium, three for a team in division 4. He did not even get a team promoted.
This appointment has tipped people over the edge to culminate in protests.
Comments
Firstly I gather 10,000 leaflets are being distributed outside the ground and we are being asked to hold them up after 2 minutes.
Secondly balloons were being talked about to be released at the same time
Thirdly the black and white scarf goes ahead
Fourthly the pre match west stand demonstration goes ahead
Fifthly we give the team as much support as possible
Please correct if I have this wrong for mine and others benefit.
A few questions
Have the balloons been arranged?
Is more funding needed?
Are they being targeted - say to lower west, lower north and bottom half of east?
Does anyone know any store that sell them? (will be too late to get them on-line)
Finally I have seen many different views of what we want out of this. From extremes of wanting KD and Meire out to just wanting enough funding to ensure relegation is survived. However the biggest issue seems to be "engaging" with fans.
Whatever people's individuals thought I would hope this is given massive support. One thing that is definitely for sure, is that the majority of us are deeply unhappy about the way our club is being mismanaged.
Of course the big difference then was that we had a manager we could stick with, and since Powell we've not found that to be the case. I'd love the club to find the right manager for the long term, because I think that would not only improve their football and financial success but it would avoid the sort of contentious decisions that are having to be made every six months.
I wonder if Fraeye might have been welcomed differently had he been replacing a Powell moving on to bigger and better things, for example. Instead, he's become the epitome of everything that's wrong with managerial decisions, even though he may yet prove to be just right for us.
The 2% is an excellent focus for this time, in my view. Peaceful, astute, and seems in keeping with the way we do things around here.
"In order to gain a little bit more coverage of the 2% protest, and as a general bit of fun, I'll be trying to get a Twitter storm going at 6pm today.
The premise is as in the title. If you believe you're part of the 2% of dissatisfied fans, then state why.
Be funny, witty or just say how you feel!
An example: "#ImTheTwoPercent because 5 head coaches in 20 months is a good decision #cafc"
Another one: "#ImTheTwoPercent because I love to rave with DJ Lady T at 12:30pm #cafc"
Please use the "cafc" hashtag as well so that hopefully we can fill that hashtag with a load of "ImTheTwoPercent..."
A good opportunity for humour here!
Joe. "
You have explained it a lot more elegantly than I ever could.
Alex Ferguson once commented that the Valley was one of the most intimidating places to visit. People of a certain age won’t remember that. I’m not sure my 14 year old son believes me when I tell him. When we went on our rise, the club appointed fans to key jobs, the rest of us sucked the ball in the net, there was a buzz about the whole place that enabled us to achieve more than our resources should have allowed. Having heroes like Rufus, Superclive, Robbo, Kinsella….god you could name so many more. Robbo, a cheap replacement for the more talented Robert Lee who would run through a brick wall for the cause and we loved him for it. The secret…. There wasn’t one. Other than the owner – Richard Murray – having the guts to back Curbs and make him sole manager, when Gritty was the Charlton man, and Curbs understanding the club and using its unique attributes to chart success. There was a brief time in 2003-4 when we were genuinely the fourth bloody best team in the country – Class Jenson, Paulo Di CAnio, Scott Parker, Matt Holland, Jason Euell, Deano, The herminator, Luke Young, the list goes on. We were quality.
That is what Powell understood, being part of the Curbishley set-up, when he said he wanted to give fans their Charlton back. What is ‘our Charlton’. That is ‘our Charlton’. Players giving their all, fans united, all fighting together for a common cause. Now we as fans seem to have split into factions, the club has lost something (not entirely Duchatelet’s fault) and there isn’t the same aura about the place.
Euell will understand what ‘our Charlton’ is and means. And I ideally hope our owner and CEO works it out as if we start looking for it again, we might just find it. That is why history is important. You learn from history.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me is the Watt situation. I think he has a very special talent and love to watch his great moments. But there is clearly a problem. The players have more than alluded to it and it has been visible to fans in both his on field fitness and attitude. Let's face it, with his level of skill, if there wasn't an issue he'd be at a much higher level. Yet someone does something about it and we get a bunch of posts declaring that his loan is unquestionable proof that RD/KM/KF don't know what they're doing. Selling Kermogant was a mistake and I think KM has more or less admitted as much. Watt to Cardiff may not be the cut and dried error that some appear to be portraying it as.
Perhaps they've seen enough in training to believe Vaz Te and Lookman are more than enough to fill the gap. I've not seen Vaz Te but Lookman is clearly special and doesn't seem to be carrying the oversized bundle of baggage that Watt does. And when I say 'they've seen enough' I include Euell who is now heavily involved with the first team. KF may not have any pedigree but with his brave change of formation and handling of Watt he certainly is not afraid to address issues.
My point is that many are interpreting this campaign as removing the RD regime to improve football decisions. With West Ham stopping at nothing to get more Kent supporters and Crystal Palace attracting investment to make them a South London franchise I'm not sure we'd have a huge queue of buyers if RD did go. The media will also happily portray the campaign as RD out.
All the time there is this confused understanding of what Spell it Out means I won't support it. The confusion is not the fault of the people running the campaign but there is too large a body of fans at the moment wanting to turn everything into a 'Get the Belgians out' message.
I am sure his views are similarly aligned to @MuttleyCAFC with his thoughts which is why he has bothered to try and do something about it. We should be supportive of this young mans enthusiasm to try and get this Club into better shape. Correct me if I am wrong but he has never said he wants Roland out or Belgians out? This has never been said in the Black and White Campaign and it states specifically on the 2% flyer that it also has nothing to do with Nationality . Joe has though, been vocal that a club the stature of CAFC has employed a Manager from the lower regional league in Belgium which at the outset most found laughable. That said, he has wished the new Manager the best of luck, as Karel Fraeye was never going to say no to being offered this position - it is not Karel's fault and I am positive he is doing everything he can do to get us 3 points every week.
Joe is 18 years old, and he has thus far started a Twitter Campaign, organised threads on this forum (which in the vast majority have been supportive), organised the selling of Black and White Scarfs, organised B&W literature against Sheffield and organised the distribution of such, gone to MK Dons (awful night) and Birmingham FC to do the same, attended and presented at the Trusts AGM, organised the 2% literature and funding for such and now is desperately trying to get volunteers to distribute. Alongside contacting the Media through newspapers, radio interviews and lastly SKY Television. All in a mature and rational way.
If you do not wish to support Charente so be it, maybe you are right that other supporters have muddied @Addicted2TheReds campaign? but does that not happen in many campaigns? If you know what the campaign is about and agree with it, then why not support it regardless of others?
Personally, I will be helping Joe on Saturday as what I would say, is that Joe may be making a difference to how CAFC is being run top down and for that I really do applaud him. It is a lot easier to do nothing and be dismissive. Muttley's post really resonated with myself especially the opening line "I had a really hard think about why I don’t care as much anymore." I really felt that I was writing it and have watched CAFC for 40+ years. Such a shame.
We do not want our young future generation of supporters feeling like this, do we?
PS. Is it going to be called Black and White Saturday now? ;-)
PPS. COYR's!
Many of here attacking Spell it out were doing so on the basis that it wasn't radical enough and that it wasn't about RD out.
Now that Spell it out is working (we've already seen some small movement from the CEO on T20k) and despite you agreeing with it you won't support it.
Each to their own but I still think that is a strange take on it.
Not seeking to dissuade or back up my thoughts with empirical evidence but I wouldn't mind guessing (yes, I'm only guessing Hex) there is a silent majority that is more relaxed about the situation than you'd imagine.
I'll leave it for now 'cos it's obviously annoying but just beware of groupthink.
Also, well done to the lad who came up with the idea.
This appointment has tipped people over the edge to culminate in protests.