The club is well aware that I will help out if wanted. I was asked, as were others, and I said I would.
Unfortunately, the goalposts have since been moved in order to exclude people with experience. There are reasons for that, but they have nothing to do with achieving the best outcomes for Charlton.
You still haven't said said why the club excluded people with experience, or have I missed something?
In this country which clubs have the fullest stadiums. ..one or two club cities, premiership teams and clubs enjoying seasons where they are being more successful than not on the pitch.
We'll never be the first. We aren't currently the second and so logically the key to filling tthe valley is to win football matches. This in turn would see a return to the top flight and reinforce big crowds.
Unfortunately the current recruitment (player and manager) strategy renders this extremely unlikely as we won't win enough matches to be successful and we won't return to the premier league with it.
It's as simple as that and no amounts of chatter, campaigns or otherwise will see different results. That they can't see that concerns me but does not surprise me as they're not football people and certainly do not understand the mentality and culture of football in South East London.
In this country what clubs have the fullest stadiums. ..one or two club cities, premiership teams and clubs enjoying seasons where they are being more successful than not on the pitch.
We'll never be the first. We aren't currently the second and so logically the key to filling tthe valley is to win football matches. This in turn would see a return to the top flight and reinforce big crowds.
Unfortunately the current recruitment (player and manager) strategy renders this extremely unlikely as we won't win enough matches to be successful and we won't return to the premier league with it.
It's as simple as that and no amounts of chatter, campaigns or otherwise will see different results. That they can't see that concerns me but does not surprise me as they're not football people and certainly do not understand the mentality and culture of football in South East London.
This is true but it doesn't mean that fans can't help the club make improvements at the margin. The club is being run by people who don't understand it - the fans can help close that gap, if there is goodwill and a constructive approach on both sides. Unfortunately some of the staff are running scared of the fans - they don't want that insight brought into the business because they see it as a threat to them, the risk being that their lack of understanding and in some cases ability will be exposed.
Target 20000 when they are struggling to stop dropping below 8000 home fans is ridiculous. But they must know that and so it must be being raised at this point simply to appease the fans, especially those who want involvement not change. Start target 5000 and get them out.
In this country what clubs have the fullest stadiums. ..one or two club cities, premiership teams and clubs enjoying seasons where they are being more successful than not on the pitch.
We'll never be the first. We aren't currently the second and so logically the key to filling tthe valley is to win football matches. This in turn would see a return to the top flight and reinforce big crowds.
Unfortunately the current recruitment (player and manager) strategy renders this extremely unlikely as we won't win enough matches to be successful and we won't return to the premier league with it.
It's as simple as that and no amounts of chatter, campaigns or otherwise will see different results. That they can't see that concerns me but does not surprise me as they're not football people and certainly do not understand the mentality and culture of football in South East London.
This is true but it doesn't mean that fans can't help the club make improvements at the margin. The club is being run by people who don't understand it - the fans can help close that gap, if there is goodwill and a constructive approach on both sides. Unfortunately some of the staff are running scared of the fans - they don't want that insight brought into the business because they see it as a threat to them, the risk being that their lack of understanding and in some cases ability will be exposed.
Agreed and I'm not in any way knocking any fans involved. I just think from the club's side get the stuff on the pitch right first (or at the same time) and they'll flock to the Valley of Dreams in droves.
Richard Murray is on the board, he appointed Curbs and stood by him until he brought the success which delivered 20,000+ crowds, so he can tell her first hand. He can also tell her about the mistakes, and their consequences, so asking fans is a cynical sham.
What further concerns me to is I'm sure I recall KM or RD saying at the outset of the tenure that winning isn't the most important thing and the prime focus is the "match day experience" (or something along those lines).
Now whilst this is admirable from a corinthian point of view I don't think it taps into the psyche of most English fans whereby the football comes first and all the niceties are periphery.
And for that reason and ones pointed out in my previous post I think they're approaching things back to front.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
"Project 2,000" is garbage. I can't believe it's being taken seriously. If she's serious she can ask Curbs, the man who got the attendances over 20,000.
I think we have achieved the 2,000, I hope it will not get as low as this:-)
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
Maybe I didn't make myself very clear.
20000 is not going to magically appear without footballing success simply because the matchday experience is vibrant. Maybe if you were a one club town or city, but not for us.
I would assume we are getting good gates because the football is going well, not the pies or the disco's.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
You paint a highly realistic if depressing picture, AA and one that I also see in my mind's eye.
The matchday experience for most is, I believe, not only secondary to what happens on the pitch but at this moment in time, a p*ss poor one too.
Overpriced booze, open concourse to the East Stand ( whose patrons need protection from the elements to keep their blankets dry) , Disco Central in Crossbars ( presumably to make it difficult for fans to hear each other's moaning) , a BIG Screen with no teams displayed /yellow cards indicated and far too much space given to adverts etc etc
If the football itself is lacking , then no-one will be encouraged to attend purely for the peripherals...
So, for me, RD has it badly wrong on all counts and I can't see much changing however many "meetings" are held.
And Target 20,000 as others have already pointed out, is a mere pipe dream unless we are pushing for promotion and NOT sliding into Division One.
Get it right at grass roots level ( literally) and "they" will come.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
I don't think that's true. It's been a persistent request of various fans groups to improve interaction with supporters and take advantage of the knowledge that is around the club but no longer within it. The club has been "saying no to free help" for two years. It has been dragged, kicking and screaming, to this point - through the protests and the behind-the-scenes activities of the trust. The somersault performed by Katrien Meire in her dealings with supporters over the last week is an illustration that parts of the club are still resisting and will continue to do so.
People rightly say that it's the football that sets the context and I totally agree with that. Clearly we are in a very bad place from which to build attendances, but we have to hope that won't be true in six months or a year's time, because the alternative is giving up. Putting in place appropriate structures is of value. There is a relationship to be rebuilt because at some point we have to turn the club round and that will entail working together. As long as the club isn't willing to hear messages that it doesn't like that can't begin. Whether it can ever begin with the current chief executive and owner I personally doubt, but I respect the efforts of those who have been trying and will no doubt continue to do so.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
Footballing success alone won't achieve it either. It took a lot of hard work to get our attendances to what they were even in the Premier League years, and to maintain them after relegation. That Target 20k became Target 40k is an indicator of how successful but also how important that work was.
To create what's essentially a focus group really is not going to achieve what Target 20k did all those years ago. I'ts not what's needed, and I'd go as far as saying it's likely to be a complete waste of everyone's time. I'm wondering if this relentless drive to get everyone in a room reflects a CEO without the confidence or the courage to get the right people working together, regardless of personal differences or issues.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
I don't think that's true. It's been a persistent request of various fans groups to improve interaction with supporters and take advantage of the knowledge that is around the club but no longer within it. The club has been "saying no to free help" for two years. It has been dragged, kicking and screaming, to this point - through the protests and the behind-the-scenes activities of the trust. The somersault performed by Katrien Meire in her dealings with supporters over the last week is an illustration that parts of the club are still resisting and will continue to do so.
People rightly say that it's the football that sets the context and I totally agree with that. Clearly we are in a very bad place from which to build attendances, but we have to hope that won't be true in six months or a year's time, because the alternative is giving up. Putting in place appropriate structures is of value. There is a relationship to be rebuilt because at some point we have to turn the club round and that will entail working together. As long as the club isn't willing to hear messages that it doesn't like that can't begin. Whether it can ever begin with the current chief executive and owner I personally doubt, but I respect the efforts of those who have been trying and will no doubt continue to do so.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
Footballing success alone won't achieve it either.
I'd disagree with that. If man city or abrahamovic type owners bankrolled us so we walked the league and were at the top end of the premiership and playing in the champions league we would easily get regular crowds in excess of 20k.
We would probably get 27k in January if we draw Liverpool or man utd in the FA cup.
What goes on on the pitch is the most important thing to most people going to football particularly when it comes to the non die hard floating fan base, the plastics and new fans.
People aren't going to come to the valley for the beer, food or gimmicky entertainment. There are much better alternatives at a cheaper price if that's what you're after particularly in a city like ours. Whilst these things might appeal to some I doubt they're deal breakers and won't be enough of a draw in isolation as winning good football or paired with winning good football.
Get it right on the pitch first and foremost and then everything else will become significantly more achievable.
The things some fans have offered and the club now seem to be asking for should be the basics at any football club. They are useless and need to go. Why help them survive any longer than necessary?! Stay away. Target 5000.
I am in favour of gates of 20000 because if we get that kind of number regularly it means footballing success. Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you. Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off. The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
But it doesn't. It really doesn't. Especially when RD revolves his selling point around the 'matchday experience' aka everything but the football, and making cheap tickets.. It in no way reflects or positively affects the way our team will be run on the pitch and our recruitment drive for players/coaches.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
So, is this the plan? Footballers and managers are expensive. Employ only the bare minimum and the cheapest and drive the wage bill down. Sell anything that is worth something. Then add a DJ for a Saturday afternoon, some dancing girls, clowns, a magician, .... surely people will still pay £10 to see them and not worry about what the football is like. That is just the side show, after all.
So the issue is more fan involvement in the club. This target 20k group is just that ; more fan involvement. I can understand why Katrien has gone for a younger group as that is the future. I can also understand why the over 40's are miffed as they are under-represented (certainly when looking around in the East stand) so the group being formed will not represent the fan base but is aimed at recruiting new younger fans(the future fan base); this seems sensible to me as by asking what is in effect a focus group some market research questions you are beginning to understand the needs and desires of the future fan base. Surely, if there is a wealth of experience out there, it is not what this group is about. It is not being formed to provide suggestions to get more fans in; it is there to get the raw material/ information/data FROM WHICH those suggestions can be made. Therefore it is a focus group for market research purposes and the decision making will be done elsewhere. If there is a wealth of suggestions already in play where will I be able to see these suggestions from the experienced fans? From these suggestions I could then see how sensible they are and make my own judgement. I think it very churlish to ridicule the beginning of the process so come on if these new representatives are our representatives then they need to be informed of what we think in a positive way.....a constructive way.
KM needs to learn that she can reduce prices and add all the gimmicky crap she likes, but people go to watch because of the football. That ain't happening right now and if they carry on running the football side like the joke it is then people will not go to games on a regular basis, if at all.
What further concerns me to is I'm sure I recall KM or RD saying at the outset of the tenure that winning isn't the most important thing and the prime focus is the "match day experience" (or something along those lines).
Now whilst this is admirable from a corinthian point of view I don't think it taps into the psyche of most English fans whereby the football comes first and all the niceties are periphery.
And for that reason and ones pointed out in my previous post I think they're approaching things back to front.
KM needs to learn that she can reduce prices and add all the gimmicky crap she likes, but people go to watch because of the football. That ain't happening right now and if they carry on running the football side like the joke it is then people will not go to games on a regular basis, if at all.
That's what I think. I still shudder about Rolys quote that "It doesn't matter what division you are in", when you heard that you knew you were in for a long, hard slog.
But it suits KM and RD to have a fan base in their teens and 20s. They know no better and do not remember that running the club properly gives success.
We were averaging 16/17k in league, admittedly after successful year, along come Mr & Mrs We'll Do-what-we-want and we heading for 12/14k averages, now they/she want to sit down and talk! Maybe, just maybe if we'd have sat down and talked when you walked through the door we'd be building on the attendances we had. You don't have to take ten steps back before taking one forward.
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We'll never be the first. We aren't currently the second and so logically the key to filling tthe valley is to win football matches. This in turn would see a return to the top flight and reinforce big crowds.
Unfortunately the current recruitment (player and manager) strategy renders this extremely unlikely as we won't win enough matches to be successful and we won't return to the premier league with it.
It's as simple as that and no amounts of chatter, campaigns or otherwise will see different results. That they can't see that concerns me but does not surprise me as they're not football people and certainly do not understand the mentality and culture of football in South East London.
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Target 20000 when they are struggling to stop dropping below 8000 home fans is ridiculous. But they must know that and so it must be being raised at this point simply to appease the fans, especially those who want involvement not change.
Start target 5000 and get them out.
Now whilst this is admirable from a corinthian point of view I don't think it taps into the psyche of most English fans whereby the football comes first and all the niceties are periphery.
And for that reason and ones pointed out in my previous post I think they're approaching things back to front.
Fanny alluded earlier to trying to find out why people are abandoning Charlton Athletic in droves, but for the regime asking that question is scary, because the answer will be it's not us, it's you.
Seeing as how they genuinely believe that five managers is indeed a successful strategy, or that only 2% are upset, or that despite cutbacks losses are increasing due to their poor decision making but they think they are running things well, or that shedding and alienating combined years of expertise is a good thing, and that older supporters are a millstone round their necks...as long as they continue to genuinely believe they are on the right track fans will continue to bog off.
The loss of face involved in admitting their cock ups is too much to endure, so sacrificing the club seems to be the better option in order to 'be right'. After all if the club dies they can blame the Royal Mail.
Put it this way, we carry on as we are footballing wise and 20k magically and somehow happens, now less magically we get relegated, a VERY realistic prospect with the way we are run as we can go months without the right (or enough) players/coaching experience. That's not footballing success, that's footballing failure with lots of people attending who will then shoe off to West Ham or similar.
Also, put it this way, this call for help is an admittance to the fact that RD's plan for our football club will NOT achieve said attendances, nor will it with help but he is trying for that, as who says no to free help!? He knows that fans = safety net of which his plan quite dearly needs. He can't build attendances on the way he runs the football club, hence why he is calling for the fans help.
It's lovely to have a vibrant match day and smashing atmosphere at the Valley come 3pm, but it's also not going to be a) achievable b) attracting hard-core fans, just people sitting there to watch football.
Also, if Virgin get what they want with 3PM Televised matches in the Prem we are a dead team walking the way we are run at the moment. Not to mention WHU's attractiveness and space for new 'fans'.
This is to nullify the protests as they will be drowned out if the attendances pick up and fans view that as a sign of progress. It wouldn't be a sign of any progress.
20000 is not going to magically appear without footballing success simply because the matchday experience is vibrant. Maybe if you were a one club town or city, but not for us.
I would assume we are getting good gates because the football is going well, not the pies or the disco's.
The matchday experience for most is, I believe, not only secondary to what happens on the pitch but at this moment in time, a p*ss poor one too.
Overpriced booze, open concourse to the East Stand ( whose patrons need protection from the elements to keep their blankets dry) , Disco Central in Crossbars ( presumably to make it difficult for fans to hear each other's moaning) , a BIG Screen with no teams displayed /yellow cards indicated and far too much space given to adverts etc etc
If the football itself is lacking , then no-one will be encouraged to attend purely for the peripherals...
So, for me, RD has it badly wrong on all counts and I can't see much changing however many "meetings" are held.
And Target 20,000 as others have already pointed out, is a mere pipe dream unless we are pushing for promotion and NOT sliding into Division One.
Get it right at grass roots level ( literally) and "they" will come.
People rightly say that it's the football that sets the context and I totally agree with that. Clearly we are in a very bad place from which to build attendances, but we have to hope that won't be true in six months or a year's time, because the alternative is giving up. Putting in place appropriate structures is of value. There is a relationship to be rebuilt because at some point we have to turn the club round and that will entail working together. As long as the club isn't willing to hear messages that it doesn't like that can't begin. Whether it can ever begin with the current chief executive and owner I personally doubt, but I respect the efforts of those who have been trying and will no doubt continue to do so.
To create what's essentially a focus group really is not going to achieve what Target 20k did all those years ago. I'ts not what's needed, and I'd go as far as saying it's likely to be a complete waste of everyone's time. I'm wondering if this relentless drive to get everyone in a room reflects a CEO without the confidence or the courage to get the right people working together, regardless of personal differences or issues.
We would probably get 27k in January if we draw Liverpool or man utd in the FA cup.
What goes on on the pitch is the most important thing to most people going to football particularly when it comes to the non die hard floating fan base, the plastics and new fans.
People aren't going to come to the valley for the beer, food or gimmicky entertainment. There are much better alternatives at a cheaper price if that's what you're after particularly in a city like ours. Whilst these things might appeal to some I doubt they're deal breakers and won't be enough of a draw in isolation as winning good football or paired with winning good football.
Get it right on the pitch first and foremost and then everything else will become significantly more achievable.
gov.bw/en/Ministries--Authorities/Ministries/Ministry-of-Education-and-Skills-Development/News/Target-20000-Upskilling-and-Upscaling/
IF so, we are screwed
If there is a wealth of suggestions already in play where will I be able to see these suggestions from the experienced fans? From these suggestions I could then see how sensible they are and make my own judgement.
I think it very churlish to ridicule the beginning of the process so come on if these new representatives are our representatives then they need to be informed of what we think in a positive way.....a constructive way.
I take this from the clear evidence of their ACTIONS since taking over...
Unfortunately this is why everyone is leaving and will continue to leave...
I for one think we should start being far less civil to these...