Should the Notting Hill Carnival continue in it's present form ?

Covered End

I have felt for a long time, that something needs to be done to reduce the violence and protect the people who attend to enjoy themselves, which are of course the vast majority.

It seems akin to many demonstrations. It all starts off peacefully and wonderful and then it gets "infected" by the unruly mob, who have less chance of being apprehended with all the people around.

This year Scotland Yard made 454 arrests across the two days of the Bank Holiday street party, including 45 attacks on police and 88 knife-related incidents.

Metropolitan Police Federation chairman Ken Marsh claimed that rank-and-file officers “dread” the event, the biggest of its kind in Europe, in which they are treated as “professional punchbags”.

There are suggestions that the festival could be held in Hyde Park, an all ticket affair, where attendees are searched beforehand.

Ok, it won't be quite the same, but surely a better idea, that the revellers can revel, without the risk of being robbed and assaulted ?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/singer-who-was-stabbed-at-notting-hill-carnival-we-cant-let-a-crazed-minority-ruin-it-a3336686.html

Chizz

Yes it should.

soapy_jones

Have they not got two water cannon in storage somewhere?

About time we manned up and gave the great unwashed a bath at the same time.

CAFCsayer

Yes it should... Went the Monday and it was brilliant

clb74

No

Brendan_O_Connell

454 arrests out of approximately 1,000,000 attendees isn't bad at all.

There are always going to be those that go to cause trouble or commit crimes, but with the majority of people going to enjoy themselves then why change it?

RugbyAddick

The amount of violence that occurs should mean that they stop it or move it. It was ridiculous.

CAFCsayer

RugbyAddick said:

The amount of violence that occurs should mean that they stop it or move it. It was ridiculous.

But then where would I spend my one weekend of the year that a I go out for a good stabbing?

DaveMehmet

Living in Bexley it's difficult to argue either way. Maybe the question should be put to all the residents of the area.

cafcdave123

Cancel it, it's shit anyway

Greenie Junior

If something like that happened at football, it would be all over the front pages, people's addresses printed in the press, people would be going inside for years and so on.

Cos it's Notting hill and you'll be called racist if you say otherwise, it's just described as a good vibe.

Stop it or bomb it. Either or, I'm not arsed.

ValleyGary

I couldn't care less if it carried on but I do know I would rather eat a mountain of Susan Boyles shit than attend it

CAFCsayer

ValleyGary said:

I couldn't care less if it carried on but I do know I would rather eat a mountain of Susan Boyles shit than attend it

Racist

WSS

CAFCsayer said:

ValleyGary said:

I couldn't care less if it carried on but I do know I would rather eat a mountain of Susan Boyles shit than attend it

Racist

And a nonce

PopIcon

The people committing crimes would only be causing trouble elsewhere. Keep it as it is.
I don't like the Notting Hill Carnival, but that's irrelevant.

RugbyAddick

Having worked it this year, I enjoyed it so much that I've already booked the time off for next year. Lovely family day out.

C_A_F_C

RugbyAddick said:

The amount of violence that occurs should mean that they stop it or move it. It was ridiculous.

RugbyAddick said:

Having worked it this year, I enjoyed it so much that I've already booked the time off for next year. Lovely family day out.

?

Garrymanilow

It starts at the end of my road and it is not a fun weekend for residents. It's also a little bit stabbier than an event should be and that needs dealing with. If you have a yearly event that is more or less guaranteed stabbings and it isn't a stabbings festival then you probably need to rethink at least a little bit of it

CAFCsayer

Garrymanilow said:

It starts at the end of my road and it is not a fun weekend for residents. It's also a little bit stabbier than an event should be and that needs dealing with. If you have a yearly event that is more or less guaranteed stabbings and it isn't a stabbings festival then you probably need to rethink at least a little bit of it

But that's half the fun of it!

LuckyReds

Get rid.

It's a waste of police time, seems to piss off the locals who it infringes upon and generally would've been banned long ago where it not for cultural sensitivities. (See the fall out from Lambeth council cancelling the Brixton event this year, and the response they got which seemed to centre around allegations of racism)

JiMMy 85

Brendan_O_Connell said:

454 arrests out of approximately 1,000,000 attendees isn't bad at all.

That's the arrests rather than the incidents. I don't know anything about the carnival but I'm guessing that figure doesn't represent the amount of crimes committed.

Greenie Junior said:

If something like that happened at football, it would be all over the front pages, people's addresses printed in the press, people would be going inside for years and so on.

Cos it's Notting hill and you'll be called racist if you say otherwise, it's just described as a good vibe.

Would it? Plenty of incidents occur at football matches without hitting the press. I don't see a connection. The racist thing is just stupid. You daft racist.

LuckyReds

JiMMy 85 said:

Brendan_O_Connell said:

454 arrests out of approximately 1,000,000 attendees isn't bad at all.

That's the arrests rather than the incidents. I don't know anything about the carnival but I'm guessing that figure doesn't represent the amount of crimes committed.

Greenie Junior said:

If something like that happened at football, it would be all over the front pages, people's addresses printed in the press, people would be going inside for years and so on.

Cos it's Notting hill and you'll be called racist if you say otherwise, it's just described as a good vibe.

Would it? Plenty of incidents occur at football matches without hitting the press. I don't see a connection. The racist thing is just stupid. You daft racist.

I think @Greenie Junior is pretty much spot on, and it's a comparison I've seen in a few papers to. Any fixture that resulted in that much unrest every year would be played behind closed doors. Obviously very few football matches have 1,000,000 participants though!

As for claims of racism, once again I'm gonna have to agree with GJ. A great example was the recent event in Brixton which was cancelled, and the amount of people who claimed The Met and Lambeth Council were racist for blocking it. It's very daft, but people still claim it sadly.

BTW - The Met have quite a good breakdown of what the arrests were for, and considering the type of event it's obvious that certain things are treated in a more lenient way due to resourcing. Plus, Sunday is supposedly the family day - what kind of family day sees 150 people get nicked?!

Assault Police - 25
Psychoactive substances (Nitrous Oxide) - 38
Criminal Damage - 2
Public order - 40
Off Weap / Points & Blades - 90
Theft Going Equipped - 8
Drugs - 169
Sexual Offences - 13
Robbery - 1
GBH - 6
ABH / Common Assault - 17
Theft Person - 10
Drink Drive / Drug Drive - 3
Other - 32

Total: 454 arrests.

It's also worth noting that the Met Police Federation have spoken out against it too, stating that it's an officer safety issue too. I'd much rather see the police using their limited resources more wisely, and that doesn't include Notting Hill Carnival.

Fiiish

The film wasn't great but banning it seems extreme IMHO, Hugh Grant's not that bad.

Covered End

I believe 15 people were stabbed this year at the carnival.
Mind you, it shows how "used to it" we've become, if some think it should continue in its' present form, because 15 people getting stabbed is not important enough, to want to do something about it to protect the innocent.

Perhaps, we'll wait for the first murder ?

Wheresmeticket

So is the level of violence higher than a city of 1 million over a Friday and Saturday night?

LuckyReds

Covered End said:

I believe 15 people were stabbed this year at the carnival.
Mind you, it shows how "used to it" we've become, if some think it should continue in its' present form, because 15 people getting stabbed is not important enough, to want to do something about it to protect the innocent.

Perhaps, we'll wait for the first murder ?

Sadly I don't even think a murder will change people's attitudes: it will simply result in questions being asked over why The Police were unable to prevent it, completely ignoring the scale of the carnival and the warning signs coming out of The Police. (via The Met Fed) For what it's worth, I think we've been lucky with the lack of a murder - but luck runs out.

LuckyReds

Wheresmeticket? said:

So is the level of violence higher than a city of 1 million over a Friday and Saturday night?

Interesting logic.

Say it is roughly the same, which I'm guessing you're expecting if there's 1,000,000 in one location. Now the second largest city - by population - in the UK is Birmingham, at 1,100,000. Are you saying it's an acceptable expectation for the locals (and the police) to have to deal with crime equatable to Birmingham's over a weekend in one small area which is contained in a much larger city?

Whether or not it's comparable to another city with a similar population is - in my opinion - not really relevant. It requires a ridiculous amount of policing, results in over 1 arrest every 6 minutes, has seen 8 police officers sent to hospital, 5 youths nearly losing their lives, 16 individuals being sexually assaulted and 90 people being caught wandering about with weapons. This is supposed to be a carnival - something fun and friendly - but it's not, is it?

SE9

Let them have it.

There will always be arrests at any major event that attracts those kind of numbers .

C_A_F_C

You could argue that in Birmingham a large percentage of overall crimes are likely commited in certain concentrated areas on a Friday and Saturday night, are Clubs, Bars, Pubs not supposed to be fun and friendly? should they all be shut down too?

LuckyReds

C_A_F_C said:

You could argue that in Birmingham a large percentage of overall crimes are likely commited in certain concentrated areas on a Friday and Saturday night, are Clubs, Bars, Pubs not supposed to be fun and friendly? should they all be shut down too?

Clubs, bars and pubs are there consistently: there's no extra burden on the council, there's no extra burden on the police, the local residents move in to these areas knowing if they're well known for nightlife and so on. They're licensed with those concerns in mind.

Thank you for making a brilliant - if unintended - point though: when clubs, bars and pubs get the kind of reputation that the Notting Hill Carnival has, they get their licenses revoked and are shut down. That's precisely my point too, I'm sure we can all list places that have closed down - personally I can think of 3 off the top of my head - for the very reasons that Notting Hill Carnival has become known for.. but on an absolutely tiny scale in comparison.

I'm not asking all street festivals to be banned, that would be like asking for all clubs, bars and pubs to be banned. I'm asking for one that is synonymous with trouble, violence and crime, and places an incredible burden on the surrounding area, to be shut down: just like we would a club, bar or pub.

WSS

SE9 said:

Let them have it.

There will always be arrests at any major event that attracts those kind of numbers .

Them?