These have been so brilliantly well put together. Huge credit to Jimmy Stone. I don't know if he posts/reads CL, but I'll be sure to tweet at him as well. This is a fantastic piece of investigative journalism, let alone football journalism.
I have so many thoughts on this, but I think in short, I think this confirms what many of us already knew: this whole football thing is a vanity project. It was geared toward Standard. Once Standard was sold, the whole thing became rudderless and without purpose (that of course assuming it had a rudder and clear purpose before). And now we're left drifting.
It goes without saying Chris Powell and his team come across incredibly well in all of this. I also think Jose Riga comes across incredibly well, though I have to confess I was a pretty big fan of his when he was here. Luzon and Peeters, meh. And Karel Fraeye does bring up some interesting point in the final episode, but part of me was just sat there thing "yeah but...you were a big part of the problem..."
Sorry if I've missed this. Anyone made a decent stab at guessing the manager that Varney had lined up?
He mentions that it would be someone that would quickly get the fans back onside.
Powell?
You'd have thought Powell, at least I'd like to think it was him, but he did;t leave Huddersfield until the November and weren't the Varney emails Aug-Nov that year?
Even if Powell was not our manager under a new owner, I would love to see him as a director. Or Director of Football. Or something! I feel like he needs some kind of involvement. Any Addick who loves the club this much needs to have some kind of role, if they want one.
Even if Powell was not our manager under a new owner, I would love to see him as a director. Or Director of Football. Or something! I feel like he needs some kind of involvement. Any Addick who loves the club this much needs to have some kind of role, if they want one.
I think incredibly highly of him as a human being, which is far more important than what he's like as a football manager. But I'm just not sure that getting him back is the right move, at least not now. They say "never go back," and there's a reason for that. He did really good things for the club, but that was 4-5 years ago now, and things change. I've said this a lot, I think he'd do really, really well to go overseas and try his hand there, I think it will make him a better coach.
This is not me saying that we're bigger than him or can do better than him, this is more me saying I don't know that the club going back to him and him coming back to the club is the right move forward for either side right now.
As of January transfer window, here's a list of RD signings ordered by debut (therefore doesn't include Anil Koc or others who didn't get any minutes):
1 Yohann Thuram-Ulien 2 Astrit Ajdarevic 3 Reza Ghoochannejhad 4 Loic Nego 5 Piotr Parzyszek 6 Marcus Tudgay 7 Davide Petrucci 8 Stephen Henderson 9 Tal Ben-Haim 10 Andre Bikey-Amougou 11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson 12 Yoni Buyens 13 Igor Vetokele 14 George Tucudean 15 Franck Moussa 16 Frederic Bulot 17 Francis Coquelin 18 Oguchi Onyewu 19 Neil Etheridge 20 Tony Watt 21 Marko Dmitrovic 22 Milos Veljkovic 23 Christophe Lepoint 24 Roger Johnson 25 Chris Eagles 26 Alou Diarra 27 Patrick Bauer 28 Ahmed Kashi 29 El-Hadji Ba 30 Simon Makienok 31 Zakarya Bergdich 32 Cristian Ceballos 33 Naby Sarr 34 Conor McAleny 35 Ricardo Vaz Te 36 Rhys Williams 37 Jorge Teixeira 38 Yaya Sanogo 39 Marco Motta 40 Rod Fanni 41 Yun Suk-Young 42 Declan Rudd 43 Kevin Foley 44 Andrew Crofts 45 Nicky Ajose 46 Ricky Holmes 47 Jason Pearce 48 Lee Novak 49 Josh Magennis 50 Jordan Botaka 51 Adam Chicksen 52 Fredrick Ulvestad 53 Lewis Page 54 Nathan Byrne 55 Jay Dasilva 56 Jake Forster-Caskey
Cheers for pulling this together, this is my list of players that could be considered successful
2 Astrit Ajdarevic 8 Stephen Henderson 9 Tal Ben-Haim 10 Andre Bikey-Amougou 11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson 12 Yoni Buyens 13 Igor Vetokele 16 Frederic Bulot 17 Francis Coquelin 20 Tony Watt 25 Chris Eagles 26 Alou Diarra 27 Patrick Bauer 37 Jorge Teixeira 39 Marco Motta 40 Rod Fanni 42 Declan Rudd 44 Andrew Crofts 46 Ricky Holmes 47 Jason Pearce 49 Josh Magennis 51 Adam Chicksen 52 Fredrick Ulvestad 54 Nathan Byrne 56 Jake Forster-Caskey
25 by my count. There are a couple here, Igor and Tony Watt in particular, where I might be being a bit generous, but they have shown ability.
"Extenuating Circumstances": players where is was a short loan or they got injured: 6 Marcus Tudgay 22 Milos Veljkovic 28 Ahmed Kashi 53 Lewis Page (it's really early for him)
Cheers for pulling this together, this is my list of players that could be considered successful
2 Astrit Ajdarevic 8 Stephen Henderson 9 Tal Ben-Haim 10 Andre Bikey-Amougou 11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson 12 Yoni Buyens 13 Igor Vetokele 16 Frederic Bulot 17 Francis Coquelin 20 Tony Watt 25 Chris Eagles 26 Alou Diarra 27 Patrick Bauer 37 Jorge Teixeira 39 Marco Motta 40 Rod Fanni 42 Declan Rudd 44 Andrew Crofts 46 Ricky Holmes 47 Jason Pearce 49 Josh Magennis 51 Adam Chicksen 52 Fredrick Ulvestad 54 Nathan Byrne 56 Jake Forster-Caskey
25 by my count. There are a couple here, Igor and Tony Watt in particular, where I might be being a bit generous, but they have shown ability.
"Extenuating Circumstances": players where is was a short loan or they got injured: 6 Marcus Tudgay 22 Milos Veljkovic 28 Ahmed Kashi 53 Lewis Page (it's really early for him)
Ajdarevic Bikey Watt Igor Eagles Crofts Motta Byrne Forster-Caskey
...made your list of successful Duchatelet signings? Some of those players were ok at best, some have played about 2 games, and the rest were ultimately shite.
Cheers for pulling this together, this is my list of players that could be considered successful
2 Astrit Ajdarevic 8 Stephen Henderson 9 Tal Ben-Haim 10 Andre Bikey-Amougou 11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson 12 Yoni Buyens 13 Igor Vetokele 16 Frederic Bulot 17 Francis Coquelin 20 Tony Watt 25 Chris Eagles 26 Alou Diarra 27 Patrick Bauer 37 Jorge Teixeira 39 Marco Motta 40 Rod Fanni 42 Declan Rudd 44 Andrew Crofts 46 Ricky Holmes 47 Jason Pearce 49 Josh Magennis 51 Adam Chicksen 52 Fredrick Ulvestad 54 Nathan Byrne 56 Jake Forster-Caskey
25 by my count. There are a couple here, Igor and Tony Watt in particular, where I might be being a bit generous, but they have shown ability.
"Extenuating Circumstances": players where is was a short loan or they got injured: 6 Marcus Tudgay 22 Milos Veljkovic 28 Ahmed Kashi 53 Lewis Page (it's really early for him)
Ajdarevic Bikey Watt Igor Eagles Crofts Motta Byrne Forster-Caskey
...made your list of successful Duchatelet signings? Some of those players were ok at best, some have played about 2 games, and the rest were ultimately shite.
JFC will come good-he has a lot of class. Ajdarevic was good. I said Watt and Igor were controversial.
Motta wasn't always great but he clearly had a lot of class. Eagles and Bikey, on frees, were decent. Same with Crofts.
I'm not saying everyone was brilliant, but I think to classify some of these as failures is harsh (aside from Watt and Igor).
Roland's associates or people that worked close with him, speak of how wise he is.....
Such a load of crap. If fans of a football club attempt to break into your home and cause you and your family unwanted attention. Then somewhere along the line you are not smart, you are simply just a nob that sounds really stupid. (Leige fans)
These have been so brilliantly well put together. Huge credit to Jimmy Stone. I don't know if he posts/reads CL, but I'll be sure to tweet at him as well. This is a fantastic piece of investigative journalism, let alone football journalism.
I have so many thoughts on this, but I think in short, I think this confirms what many of us already knew: this whole football thing is a vanity project. It was geared toward Standard. Once Standard was sold, the whole thing became rudderless and without purpose (that of course assuming it had a rudder and clear purpose before). And now we're left drifting.
It goes without saying Chris Powell and his team come across incredibly well in all of this. I also think Jose Riga comes across incredibly well, though I have to confess I was a pretty big fan of his when he was here. Luzon and Peeters, meh. And Karel Fraeye does bring up some interesting point in the final episode, but part of me was just sat there thing "yeah but...you were a big part of the problem..."
Agree with most of that. I thought Fraeye came across quite decently. Hopelessly out of his depth, and the difficulties of working as a manager under Duchatelet in terms of squad depth was evident to all. But he didn't try to sugarcoat things. He sounded like he cared.
Varney's description of the thorough disciplined approach of how to build a squad & team contrasted sharply with the ill thought through & scatter gunned approach of Duchatelet, particularly after selling Standard.
These have been so brilliantly well put together. Huge credit to Jimmy Stone. I don't know if he posts/reads CL, but I'll be sure to tweet at him as well. This is a fantastic piece of investigative journalism, let alone football journalism.
I have so many thoughts on this, but I think in short, I think this confirms what many of us already knew: this whole football thing is a vanity project. It was geared toward Standard. Once Standard was sold, the whole thing became rudderless and without purpose (that of course assuming it had a rudder and clear purpose before). And now we're left drifting.
It goes without saying Chris Powell and his team come across incredibly well in all of this. I also think Jose Riga comes across incredibly well, though I have to confess I was a pretty big fan of his when he was here. Luzon and Peeters, meh. And Karel Fraeye does bring up some interesting point in the final episode, but part of me was just sat there thing "yeah but...you were a big part of the problem..."
Agree with most of that. I thought Fraeye came across quite decently. Hopelessly out of his depth, and the difficulties of working as a manager under Duchatelet in terms of squad depth was evident to all. But he didn't try to sugarcoat things. He sounded like he cared.
Varney's description of the thorough disciplined approach of how to build a squad & team contrasted sharply with the ill thought through & scatter gunned approach of Duchatelet, particularly after selling Standard.
I may be a bit bitter towards KF. His assessments were correct, you're right, and he did sound like he cared. Riga clearly does as well, it is possible for a network manager to care. I think what puts me off KF is that clip that Charlton Live constantly play where he says "we don't want Charlton to turn into a team that has to go everywhere and win." But it's not fair to hold one clip from one press conference against the man. He was out of his depth, but that wasn't necessarily his fault.
Cheers for pulling this together, this is my list of players that could be considered successful
2 Astrit Ajdarevic 8 Stephen Henderson 9 Tal Ben-Haim 10 Andre Bikey-Amougou 11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson 12 Yoni Buyens 13 Igor Vetokele 16 Frederic Bulot 17 Francis Coquelin 20 Tony Watt 25 Chris Eagles 26 Alou Diarra 27 Patrick Bauer 37 Jorge Teixeira 39 Marco Motta 40 Rod Fanni 42 Declan Rudd 44 Andrew Crofts 46 Ricky Holmes 47 Jason Pearce 49 Josh Magennis 51 Adam Chicksen 52 Fredrick Ulvestad 54 Nathan Byrne 56 Jake Forster-Caskey
25 by my count. There are a couple here, Igor and Tony Watt in particular, where I might be being a bit generous, but they have shown ability.
"Extenuating Circumstances": players where is was a short loan or they got injured: 6 Marcus Tudgay 22 Milos Veljkovic 28 Ahmed Kashi 53 Lewis Page (it's really early for him)
How many of that 25 were at the club for more than a season? Here today, gone tomorrow.
There are plenty of Standard fans who didnt buy into Bart Lagae's view at all. When RD bought us they assumed that We would be his focus because an FAPL Charlton would generate far more revenue than Standard could ever do ( the Valley capacity is nearly that of Schlessin too). RD started flogging off a lot of good players and pocketed a €20m dividend from Standard. I haven't heard the latest part but if that's Jimmy's conclusion, I cannot agree on this point - and I am one of several people who have met Bart. Also it was the view of Douglas De Coninck a news journo who has interviewed RD 3 times, that the real issue with Standard ownership was STVV gaining promotion. He told me that the owners of the other big clubs all hate RD, and no way were they going to let him pretend STVV wasnt his.
I think that RD was and is making it up as he went along, and did whatever he thought was best for his bank balance. Nothing more than that.
Maybe listen to it first? Not saying I'm sold on this point, but worth considering the evidence of people who were involved.
Absolutely right to say that, and did so last night, and at the same time reviewed all the mails from Douglas, and the Socios.
First I should say that whether the central idea was a pyramid with Standard at the top of it, is no longer a big deal. In disputing it I would not wish in any way to detract from a superb piece of work by Jimmy, which becomes an instant reference point for the wider world. I hope good things come to him to as a result of his significant investment of time and money.
So with that caveat I have to say that I remain unconvinced that Jimmy has cracked his motivation or original plan. In this respect, he will have only joined the ranks of journalists and other interested observers in Belgium and across Europe who remain equally baffled, so no criticism intended. Perhaps the mistake we all make is in trying to frame our understanding of RD in the normal football way of thinking. Both we fans and the people Jimmy spoke to are football people. RD is not. In fact he is not a normal member of society at all, with ideas that officially found favour with around 1.5% of the Belgian population when asked to consider them. The one jarring note I felt was when Jimmy tossed in that RD is "a big Standard fan". Where did that come from? Most people believe he is not a fan at all in an normal sense. What about the early stories of him not understanding the offside rule (OK who does nowadays?), or speculating why you couldn't just swap the defence for the midfield or some such gibberish. And he had no connection with Liege, a French speaking industrial city. His biz interests were elsewhere. He just latched on to them, I think because Schlessin, on a good day, is a real football theatre, unlike poor old STVV. And he was fascinated by that. But understanding it? Never in a million years.
For the record, DdC was all over the place re RD's motives. Certainly early on he assumed it was a pyramid, but for example at the time we had started well under Peeters, he believed that RD had a pragmatic plan, whereby in Jan he would look to see who was closer tot the target, Standard a UCL place or Charlton a Champ play off place, and shuffle players according to whoever was closer. DdC reported that after selling Standard, he asked him if Charlton were now top of the pyramid, and RD answered there never was a pyramid. The Socios for their part have simply believed that RD just wanted and wants to make money from football, although they also believe that the violent Standard protests were key to him selling, while acknowledging the two club owner issues.
So I will stick with the Socios view, that he will measure success merely by his personal bank balance. Nobody is sure, but it is widely assumed that he departed Standard maybe €10m richer. He left a club bereft of talent, and despite never having been relegated from the Belgian top tier, it quickly sank to bottom place, although it hauled itself up again, while still nowhere near their traditional heights. The same is true of us, and Jimmy has meticulously detailed how we got here, and how avoidable it all has been. For that, we owe him a debt of gratitude. But it is very, very grim.
So was Murray a 'football person' when he was Chairman or just a fan (of another Club)?
Was our Slater a 'football person' when he was Chairman or just a fan (of another Club)?
You could say Duchatalet is more a 'football person' than both of those previous Chairmen, as he's has not only been a fan (of another Club) but has owned Clubs that have had relative success.
BTW, did anyone else feel Powell was talking directly to them as an individual at the end of the Podcast?
So was Murray a 'football person' when he was Chairman or just a fan (of another Club)?
Was our Slater a 'football person' when he was Chairman or just a fan (of another Club)?
You could say Duchatalet is more a 'football person' than both of those previous Chairmen, as he's has not only been a fan (of another Club) but has owned Clubs that have had relative success.
BTW, did anyone else feel Powell was talking directly to them as an individual at the end of the Podcast?
In my opinion, yes and yes to both Murray and Slater. Both of them like (love) football. I suppose both of them played football at school. We have read, from an RD interview, that once he was a teenager, for some obscure reason, he no longer even played. There is no record of him being interested in football until he took his business interests in them some 10 years ago when he was already approaching 60. Like I say, I have grave doubts that RD has ever been a "fan" of Standard, although I suppose he wanted them to win matches. Even that supposition though, can be challenged. But Standard fans were never going to stay for the dancing, so I suppose in this sense he was happy if they would beat Zulte Waregem or whoever. But not in the same way I will be if we beat Posh this afternoon . Both Murray and Slater (whether you 'like' them or not) are normal members of society, whom you could have a normal conversation with on a variety of subjects. I have not seen this with my own eyes, but I am confident both of them possess and use a dishwasher.
Hmm why do you need to get your ex-Managers to sign an NDA if your not scared of what they could come out and say?
If anything this is clear proof that they know of this podcast and their actions in getting Slade to sign the NDA is clear proof that they're unable to deny any of it... Seriously how can any apologist defend the club over this action.
Even if its standard process for sacked Managers to sign NDAs why have the others all been able to comment? - It shows their ineptness to follow the usual practice
Comments
He mentions that it would be someone that would quickly get the fans back onside.
Powell?
I have so many thoughts on this, but I think in short, I think this confirms what many of us already knew: this whole football thing is a vanity project. It was geared toward Standard. Once Standard was sold, the whole thing became rudderless and without purpose (that of course assuming it had a rudder and clear purpose before). And now we're left drifting.
It goes without saying Chris Powell and his team come across incredibly well in all of this. I also think Jose Riga comes across incredibly well, though I have to confess I was a pretty big fan of his when he was here. Luzon and Peeters, meh. And Karel Fraeye does bring up some interesting point in the final episode, but part of me was just sat there thing "yeah but...you were a big part of the problem..."
This is not me saying that we're bigger than him or can do better than him, this is more me saying I don't know that the club going back to him and him coming back to the club is the right move forward for either side right now.
1 Yohann Thuram-Ulien
2 Astrit Ajdarevic
3 Reza Ghoochannejhad
4 Loic Nego
5 Piotr Parzyszek
6 Marcus Tudgay
7 Davide Petrucci
8 Stephen Henderson
9 Tal Ben-Haim
10 Andre Bikey-Amougou
11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson
12 Yoni Buyens
13 Igor Vetokele
14 George Tucudean
15 Franck Moussa
16 Frederic Bulot
17 Francis Coquelin
18 Oguchi Onyewu
19 Neil Etheridge
20 Tony Watt
21 Marko Dmitrovic
22 Milos Veljkovic
23 Christophe Lepoint
24 Roger Johnson
25 Chris Eagles
26 Alou Diarra
27 Patrick Bauer
28 Ahmed Kashi
29 El-Hadji Ba
30 Simon Makienok
31 Zakarya Bergdich
32 Cristian Ceballos
33 Naby Sarr
34 Conor McAleny
35 Ricardo Vaz Te
36 Rhys Williams
37 Jorge Teixeira
38 Yaya Sanogo
39 Marco Motta
40 Rod Fanni
41 Yun Suk-Young
42 Declan Rudd
43 Kevin Foley
44 Andrew Crofts
45 Nicky Ajose
46 Ricky Holmes
47 Jason Pearce
48 Lee Novak
49 Josh Magennis
50 Jordan Botaka
51 Adam Chicksen
52 Fredrick Ulvestad
53 Lewis Page
54 Nathan Byrne
55 Jay Dasilva
56 Jake Forster-Caskey
2 Astrit Ajdarevic
8 Stephen Henderson
9 Tal Ben-Haim
10 Andre Bikey-Amougou
11 Johann Berg Gudmundsson
12 Yoni Buyens
13 Igor Vetokele
16 Frederic Bulot
17 Francis Coquelin
20 Tony Watt
25 Chris Eagles
26 Alou Diarra
27 Patrick Bauer
37 Jorge Teixeira
39 Marco Motta
40 Rod Fanni
42 Declan Rudd
44 Andrew Crofts
46 Ricky Holmes
47 Jason Pearce
49 Josh Magennis
51 Adam Chicksen
52 Fredrick Ulvestad
54 Nathan Byrne
56 Jake Forster-Caskey
25 by my count. There are a couple here, Igor and Tony Watt in particular, where I might be being a bit generous, but they have shown ability.
"Extenuating Circumstances": players where is was a short loan or they got injured:
6 Marcus Tudgay
22 Milos Veljkovic
28 Ahmed Kashi
53 Lewis Page (it's really early for him)
Bikey
Watt
Igor
Eagles
Crofts
Motta
Byrne
Forster-Caskey
...made your list of successful Duchatelet signings? Some of those players were ok at best, some have played about 2 games, and the rest were ultimately shite.
Motta wasn't always great but he clearly had a lot of class. Eagles and Bikey, on frees, were decent. Same with Crofts.
I'm not saying everyone was brilliant, but I think to classify some of these as failures is harsh (aside from Watt and Igor).
Echoes a lot of what we knew and heavily assumed.
It's just quite sad.
Powell speaks at the end, top bloke.
Roland's associates or people that worked close with him, speak of how wise he is.....
Such a load of crap. If fans of a football club attempt to break into your home and cause you and your family unwanted attention. Then somewhere along the line you are not smart, you are simply just a nob that sounds really stupid. (Leige fans)
Varney's description of the thorough disciplined approach of how to build a squad & team contrasted sharply with the ill thought through & scatter gunned approach of Duchatelet, particularly after selling Standard.
No stability, no continuity, no chance
First I should say that whether the central idea was a pyramid with Standard at the top of it, is no longer a big deal. In disputing it I would not wish in any way to detract from a superb piece of work by Jimmy, which becomes an instant reference point for the wider world. I hope good things come to him to as a result of his significant investment of time and money.
So with that caveat I have to say that I remain unconvinced that Jimmy has cracked his motivation or original plan. In this respect, he will have only joined the ranks of journalists and other interested observers in Belgium and across Europe who remain equally baffled, so no criticism intended. Perhaps the mistake we all make is in trying to frame our understanding of RD in the normal football way of thinking. Both we fans and the people Jimmy spoke to are football people. RD is not. In fact he is not a normal member of society at all, with ideas that officially found favour with around 1.5% of the Belgian population when asked to consider them. The one jarring note I felt was when Jimmy tossed in that RD is "a big Standard fan". Where did that come from? Most people believe he is not a fan at all in an normal sense. What about the early stories of him not understanding the offside rule (OK who does nowadays?), or speculating why you couldn't just swap the defence for the midfield or some such gibberish. And he had no connection with Liege, a French speaking industrial city. His biz interests were elsewhere. He just latched on to them, I think because Schlessin, on a good day, is a real football theatre, unlike poor old STVV. And he was fascinated by that. But understanding it? Never in a million years.
For the record, DdC was all over the place re RD's motives. Certainly early on he assumed it was a pyramid, but for example at the time we had started well under Peeters, he believed that RD had a pragmatic plan, whereby in Jan he would look to see who was closer tot the target, Standard a UCL place or Charlton a Champ play off place, and shuffle players according to whoever was closer. DdC reported that after selling Standard, he asked him if Charlton were now top of the pyramid, and RD answered there never was a pyramid. The Socios for their part have simply believed that RD just wanted and wants to make money from football, although they also believe that the violent Standard protests were key to him selling, while acknowledging the two club owner issues.
So I will stick with the Socios view, that he will measure success merely by his personal bank balance. Nobody is sure, but it is widely assumed that he departed Standard maybe €10m richer. He left a club bereft of talent, and despite never having been relegated from the Belgian top tier, it quickly sank to bottom place, although it hauled itself up again, while still nowhere near their traditional heights. The same is true of us, and Jimmy has meticulously detailed how we got here, and how avoidable it all has been. For that, we owe him a debt of gratitude. But it is very, very grim.
Was our Slater a 'football person' when he was Chairman or just a fan (of another Club)?
You could say Duchatalet is more a 'football person' than both of those previous Chairmen, as he's has not only been a fan (of another Club) but has owned Clubs that have had relative success.
BTW, did anyone else feel Powell was talking directly to them as an individual at the end of the Podcast?
.
Both Murray and Slater (whether you 'like' them or not) are normal members of society, whom you could have a normal conversation with on a variety of subjects. I have not seen this with my own eyes, but I am confident both of them possess and use a dishwasher.
None of that appears to be true of RD.
If anything this is clear proof that they know of this podcast and their actions in getting Slade to sign the NDA is clear proof that they're unable to deny any of it... Seriously how can any apologist defend the club over this action.
Even if its standard process for sacked Managers to sign NDAs why have the others all been able to comment? - It shows their ineptness to follow the usual practice
He may not be able to help himself.
Powell? If not him, who?