If tallow is the cheapest, most sustainable option then that's the only consideration. Nothing is being forced on anyone. The religious argument is bogus too; there has been almost zero official response to this from any religious group, and for good reason: because dozens of everyday products will contain animal byproduct.
I don't wish to have to use animal products when there is no need so to do. There are non animal alternatives to tallow. What don't you understand. The use of tallow is an unnecessary imposition on those who don't want to for ethical, or for religious reasons, use these notes. It's an extreme, to me, statement from the powers that be that my position is worthless. Well ok don't expect me to rush in support of anything else the government demands support over.
But The alternative is much worse for animals in the wild and their welfare....
The 15th use means that the animal is well and truly dead before the tallow is used and either way it'll stay dead.
And. I. Don't. Wish. To. Be. Complicit. In. Any. Unnecessary. Use. Of. Animal. Products. Why don't you actually read what I say. Don't come up with these spurious stupid arguments. You're happy to use unnecessary animal products in the production of bank notes, I'm not. I have ethical reasons for this that mean whether it's first or millionth use I am compromised by these fivers. Please let that sink in to your so far unthinking brain.
Okay. Ignore the 15th use (looked it up it'd actually more than 20th use) that was a side argument.
And no I don't care about the cat thing either.
My main point is that if you were serious about animal welfare you would look at the bigger picture and see that this is clearly the least worst option for animal welfare and conservation/the environment. In this sub-ideal world surely we have to go with the least worst option.
Yes there is a synthetic alternative but the production of that contributes to much more environmental damage and is responsible for many more animal deaths. These are animals in the wild and living in the few remaining natural habitats in this country. Surely you can see that is a worse outcome for everyone particularly animals than simply using a tiny amount of waste products from an animal already dead 20 times over.
I anything is spurious here it's your 'ethical reasons' that don't consider the full implications of the decision you are advocating.
How about you take your blinkers off and see the bigger picture. Rather than just trying to prove a point and pretend to care about animal welfare when you refuse to see the worse impacts of what you are advocating.
Blimey. Is this still going. 2% of the uk are vegetarian (according to the department of health and food standards agency 2012) and 17% of the uk has a food allergy or intolerance ( yougov 2015). What I can't get my head around is one is a ethical/religion/lifestyle with a dietary choice and the other, in some cases can be a matter of life and death. I know some will fall into both categories but if we, as cafc fans or forum members are a true cross section of people, where are the 18 page long threads about gluten/wheat/lactose intolerance or nut allergies. I know this is the banknote thread but it's the same points that have been made on other threads and I didn't want to start a new one to do it all again.
It is mentioned above thst tallow alternative would be a worse option. Would it? What is the purpose of the tallow in the notes anyway? I read it is a small amount anyway. I don't know, but maybe candlewax or soap would do the trick. If we are discussing tiny amounts of stuff then in the future could there not be an alternative? Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
It is mentioned above thst tallow alternative would be a worse option. Would it? What is the purpose of the tallow in the notes anyway? I read it is a small amount anyway. I don't know, but maybe candlewax or soap would do the trick. If we are discussing tiny amounts of stuff then in the future could there not be an alternative? Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
Natural ingredient compared to fossil fuel derived material with a carbon footprint?
It is mentioned above thst tallow alternative would be a worse option. Would it? What is the purpose of the tallow in the notes anyway? I read it is a small amount anyway. I don't know, but maybe candlewax or soap would do the trick. If we are discussing tiny amounts of stuff then in the future could there not be an alternative? Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
Natural ingredient compared to fossil fuel derived material with a carbon footprint?
More than just a carbon footprint.
There are significant chemical byproducts which are normally disposed of by 'controlled release' which environmentalists/ conservationists are trying to fight against as a method of disposal. It is basically dumping the stuff but spread out and over time in order to 'minimise damage'. It's a bullshit reason and the stuff still finds its ways into the water system and rivers and lakes. Where it does considerable damage to birds insects and fish ecosystems.
Taking it to its logical conclusion, people who decide to go to extremes like this shouldn't be using or owning computers, as I understand stearic acid is present in all but Apple products.
Is there a vegan toothpaste? Condoms, firework Show?
Taking it to its logical conclusion, people who decide to go to extremes like this shouldn't be using or owning computers, as I understand stearic acid is present in all but Apple products.
Is there a vegan toothpaste? Condoms, firework Show?
Taking it to its logical conclusion, people who decide to go to extremes like this shouldn't be using or owning computers, as I understand stearic acid is present in all but Apple products.
Is there a vegan toothpaste? Condoms, firework Show?
that's different though because they chose to own them (like a cat), completely different to being held down by a gang of angry meat eaters while Mark Carney forces rolls of £5 notes up their bottom.
It is mentioned above thst tallow alternative would be a worse option. Would it? What is the purpose of the tallow in the notes anyway? I read it is a small amount anyway. I don't know, but maybe candlewax or soap would do the trick. If we are discussing tiny amounts of stuff then in the future could there not be an alternative? Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
Natural ingredient compared to fossil fuel derived material with a carbon footprint?
Don't get them started on hydrocarbons! Bitumen is made from dead animals and they won't be able to walk on the pavements, let alone drive a car.
Anyway to answer Seth's question the tallow in bank notes provides anti-static and anti-slip properties.
It is mentioned above thst tallow alternative would be a worse option. Would it? What is the purpose of the tallow in the notes anyway? I read it is a small amount anyway. I don't know, but maybe candlewax or soap would do the trick. If we are discussing tiny amounts of stuff then in the future could there not be an alternative? Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
Natural ingredient compared to fossil fuel derived material with a carbon footprint?
Don't get them started on hydrocarbons! Bitumen is made from dead animals and they won't be able to walk on the pavements, let alone drive a car.
Anyway to answer Seth's question the tallow in bank notes provides anti-static and anti-slip properties.
They shoulda known this could have been a potential banana skin
Are coconuts a new product? The amounts of material needed are apparently pretty low. maybe there is a market for the by product of Bounty bars or something.
You can get stearic acid, the significant part of tallow, from coconuts. You're not obliged to use man-made materials or tallow if the will is there.
I don't want my money to smell of coconuts. Now saugages....
But on a serious note, palm oil plantations are destroying vast swathes of the planet and are largely responsible for the pressures placed on the Orangutan. It's difficult to imagine a product that does more damage.
You can also source the material from the shea tree. I understand the actual amount needed is small and could be farmed without any unnatural change to the usual habitat of the tree.
You can get stearic acid, the significant part of tallow, from coconuts. You're not obliged to use man-made materials or tallow if the will is there.
I don't want my money to smell of coconuts. Now saugages....
But on a serious note, palm oil plantations are destroying vast swathes of the planet and are largely responsible for the pressures placed on the Orangutan. It's difficult to imagine a product that does more damage.
Taking it to its logical conclusion, people who decide to go to extremes like this shouldn't be using or owning computers, as I understand stearic acid is present in all but Apple products.
Is there a vegan toothpaste? Condoms, firework Show?
I was surprised to read (in a cookery book of all places!) that there are, indeed, vegan condoms. I haven't actually seen them. I can only imagine the possible conversations in certain 'situations' as it were.
I believe I have gone through several stages of enlightenment, because if any thread is guaranteed to bring out needless vitriol about a minority of people it is one regarding vegetarianism. However my level of enlightenment just now means I don't give a damn about the critics any more, pour it on boys and girls, pour it on.
Vitriol ? Where is there any suggestion of some extreme hate ? Incredulity, exasperation and a bit of mickey taking perhaps. Vitriol !!! Leave it out.
I don't wish to have to use animal products when there is no need so to do. There are non animal alternatives to tallow. What don't you understand. The use of tallow is an unnecessary imposition on those who don't want to for ethical, or for religious reasons, use these notes. It's an extreme, to me, statement from the powers that be that my position is worthless. Well ok don't expect me to rush in support of anything else the government demands support over.
But The alternative is much worse for animals in the wild and their welfare....
The 15th use means that the animal is well and truly dead before the tallow is used and either way it'll stay dead.
And. I. Don't. Wish. To. Be. Complicit. In. Any. Unnecessary. Use. Of. Animal. Products. Why don't you actually read what I say. Don't come up with these spurious stupid arguments. You're happy to use unnecessary animal products in the production of bank notes, I'm not. I have ethical reasons for this that mean whether it's first or millionth use I am compromised by these fivers. Please let that sink in to your so far unthinking brain.
Seth. Are we getting vitriol against carnivores here ?
It is mentioned above thst tallow alternative would be a worse option. Would it? What is the purpose of the tallow in the notes anyway? I read it is a small amount anyway. I don't know, but maybe candlewax or soap would do the trick. If we are discussing tiny amounts of stuff then in the future could there not be an alternative? Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
Natural ingredient compared to fossil fuel derived material with a carbon footprint?
Comments
And no I don't care about the cat thing either.
My main point is that if you were serious about animal welfare you would look at the bigger picture and see that this is clearly the least worst option for animal welfare and conservation/the environment. In this sub-ideal world surely we have to go with the least worst option.
Yes there is a synthetic alternative but the production of that contributes to much more environmental damage and is responsible for many more animal deaths. These are animals in the wild and living in the few remaining natural habitats in this country. Surely you can see that is a worse outcome for everyone particularly animals than simply using a tiny amount of waste products from an animal already dead 20 times over.
I anything is spurious here it's your 'ethical reasons' that don't consider the full implications of the decision you are advocating.
How about you take your blinkers off and see the bigger picture. Rather than just trying to prove a point and pretend to care about animal welfare when you refuse to see the worse impacts of what you are advocating.
2% of the uk are vegetarian (according to the department of health and food standards agency 2012) and 17% of the uk has a food allergy or intolerance ( yougov 2015).
What I can't get my head around is one is a ethical/religion/lifestyle with a dietary choice and the other, in some cases can be a matter of life and death.
I know some will fall into both categories but if we, as cafc fans or forum members are a true cross section of people, where are the 18 page long threads about gluten/wheat/lactose intolerance or nut allergies.
I know this is the banknote thread but it's the same points that have been made on other threads and I didn't want to start a new one to do it all again.
Why?
Failing that, maybe instead of leaving one's body to medical research, maybe people could leave themselves to banknotes, perhaps for a small fee.
There are significant chemical byproducts which are normally disposed of by 'controlled release' which environmentalists/ conservationists are trying to fight against as a method of disposal. It is basically dumping the stuff but spread out and over time in order to 'minimise damage'. It's a bullshit reason and the stuff still finds its ways into the water system and rivers and lakes. Where it does considerable damage to birds insects and fish ecosystems.
Is there a vegan toothpaste?
Condoms, firework Show?
Anyway to answer Seth's question the tallow in bank notes provides anti-static and anti-slip properties.
The amounts of material needed are apparently pretty low. maybe there is a market for the by product of Bounty bars or something.
But on a serious note, palm oil plantations are destroying vast swathes of the planet and are largely responsible for the pressures placed on the Orangutan. It's difficult to imagine a product that does more damage.
I understand the actual amount needed is small and could be farmed without any unnatural change to the usual habitat of the tree.
Cows do fart a lot though.
As already said the sensible, logical thing to do for the environment as a whole including every living thing would be to choose the dead cow.