VAR is the worst thing that ever happened in football. Apart from removing the maximum wage... How the ref changed his mind for that penalty is ridiculous ... If that was handball i am a whinging cry baby remainer.
Munich, 1959. Jimmy Gauld, 1962. Dirty Leeds, 1961-74. England v Argentina, 1966. Racing Club v Celtic, 1967. Ibrox, 1971. Hales v Flanagan, 1979. Schumacher v Battiston 1982. Bradford, 1985. England v Argentina, 1986. Hillsbrough, 1989. Barbados v Grenada, 1994.
And VAR is "the worst thing that ever happened in football"?
VAR is the worst thing that ever happened in football. Apart from removing the maximum wage... How the ref changed his mind for that penalty is ridiculous ... If that was handball i am a whinging cry baby remainer.
Munich, 1959. Jimmy Gauld, 1962. Dirty Leeds, 1961-74. England v Argentina, 1966. Racing Club v Celtic, 1967. Ibrox, 1971. Hales v Flanagan, 1979. Schumacher v Battiston 1982. Bradford, 1985. England v Argentina, 1986. Hillsbrough, 1989. Barbados v Grenada, 1994.
And VAR is "the worst thing that ever happened in football"?
VAR is the worst thing that ever happened in football. Apart from removing the maximum wage... How the ref changed his mind for that penalty is ridiculous ... If that was handball i am a whinging cry baby remainer.
Munich, 1959. Jimmy Gauld, 1962. Dirty Leeds, 1961-74. England v Argentina, 1966. Racing Club v Celtic, 1967. Ibrox, 1971. Hales v Flanagan, 1979. Schumacher v Battiston 1982. Bradford, 1985. England v Argentina, 1986. Hillsbrough, 1989. Barbados v Grenada, 1994.
And VAR is "the worst thing that ever happened in football"?
Blimey.
What a pretentious way to make a point
You've probably not seen many of my posts before, obviously!
Decisions against handball should be made if the handball is deliberate and it diverts the flight of the ball. If the ball hits the hand , not handball - if the hand hits the ball, it is handball.
VAR is the worst thing that ever happened in football. Apart from removing the maximum wage... How the ref changed his mind for that penalty is ridiculous ... If that was handball i am a whinging cry baby remainer.
Munich, 1959. Jimmy Gauld, 1962. Dirty Leeds, 1961-74. England v Argentina, 1966. Racing Club v Celtic, 1967. Ibrox, 1971. Hales v Flanagan, 1979. Schumacher v Battiston 1982. Bradford, 1985. England v Argentina, 1986. Hillsbrough, 1989. Barbados v Grenada, 1994.
And VAR is "the worst thing that ever happened in football"?
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
I agree the handball law needs revisiting. Not so much because its vague, but because it calls for a judgement to be made about something that is unknowable. It is impossible for any referee or any technology to date to know whether or not a handball is intentional. Only the player concerned can know that - and in some cases, even that could be doubtful. The best any observer can do is infer whether it was or not, but you can't get into someone else's mind. Sometimes it will seem clear cut; other times like today, it won't but whatever the decision it is always based on inference rather than fact.
As for VAR, I'll concede that it's been better than I expected but I still feel uncomfortable adding a different level of technology differentiating the professional game to the amateur one.
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
How about something like.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
VAR has eventually (after missed England V Tunisia challenges ) reduced a lot of the sly holding/tugging/pulling/pushing bullshit at corners and free kicks and it feels to me there’s been more goals for it , so that’s a big plus right there
Was it really VAR that did that? Why do you need banks of TV screens and computers to stop players fighting in the penalty area. Why can't the referee or his assistant do it?
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
How about something like.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
Sorry, but this doesn't solve the problem because you're still trying to guess someone's intentions.
VAR has eventually (after missed England V Tunisia challenges ) reduced a lot of the sly holding/tugging/pulling/pushing bullshit at corners and free kicks and it feels to me there’s been more goals for it , so that’s a big plus right there
Was it really VAR that did that? Why do you need banks of TV screens and computers to stop players fighting in the penalty area. Why can't the referee or his assistant do it?
Well the referee tried and it only stopped after penalties were given because of VAR reviewing the corners etc.
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
How about something like.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
Sorry, but this doesn't solve the problem because you're still trying to guess someone's intentions.
OK - but if guessing intentions is a problem for a referee you really need to remove the word "deliberate" from all rules.
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
As for VAR, I'll concede that it's been better than I expected but I still feel uncomfortable adding a different level of technology differentiating the professional game to the amateur one.
What do feel about the VAR equivalents in cricket, tennis and rugby ?
VAR has eventually (after missed England V Tunisia challenges ) reduced a lot of the sly holding/tugging/pulling/pushing bullshit at corners and free kicks and it feels to me there’s been more goals for it , so that’s a big plus right there
Was it really VAR that did that? Why do you need banks of TV screens and computers to stop players fighting in the penalty area. Why can't the referee or his assistant do it?
Because the ref has 2 eyes and the players at corners have 20 arms and are not all standing together. He also has to watch the ball as well ?
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
As for VAR, I'll concede that it's been better than I expected but I still feel uncomfortable adding a different level of technology differentiating the professional game to the amateur one.
What do feel about the VAR equivalents in cricket, tennis and rugby ?
I'm not really bothered, but that's because they're not my sports. Football is 'the peoples game' so I want the game that the professionals play to be as close as possible to that played by everyone else. The one bit of elitist technology that I feel totally comfortable with is floodlights, which for me absolutely bring the game to life and make it possible when it wouldn't otherwise be.
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
How about something like.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
Sorry, but this doesn't solve the problem because you're still trying to guess someone's intentions.
OK - but if guessing intentions is a problem for a referee you really need to remove the word "deliberate" from all rules.
The word "deliberate" is only quoted once in the Laws of the Game (there are no "rules") and that is reference to handball only.
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
As for VAR, I'll concede that it's been better than I expected but I still feel uncomfortable adding a different level of technology differentiating the professional game to the amateur one.
What do feel about the VAR equivalents in cricket, tennis and rugby ?
The VAR equivalent in cricket - 10/10 rugby - 8/10 tennis - 6/10 football - 2/10, but improving
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
How about something like.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
Sorry, but this doesn't solve the problem because you're still trying to guess someone's intentions.
OK - but if guessing intentions is a problem for a referee you really need to remove the word "deliberate" from all rules.
They should change the language slightly, for me when looking a the replays in the final it was clear that the defender's arm was in a raised position as he jumped, when the attacker made contact with the ball the defender moved his leg up and his arm down to block the ball. It was a clear movement of the arm in the direction of the ball following the change of path of the ball and therefore could be deemed as a deliberate act. If the defenders arm had not moved and the ball had hit his arm you could argue that it wasn't deliberate, but regardless of how close the defender was to the attacker the defender moved his hand to the ball, therefore I think that the ref was correct.
If it had been Pickford, the pundits would have said how great his reactions were and how lucky we are to have such a keeper.
The two most contentious VAR decisions this world cup if I recall were handball calls in the Iran Portugal game and tonight. FWIW I thought neither were handball. Rather than calling out VAR it seems to me the handball law needs revisiting as it's so much down to the official's interpretation of events. The law itself is so vague.
How about something like.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
Sorry, but this doesn't solve the problem because you're still trying to guess someone's intentions.
OK - but if guessing intentions is a problem for a referee you really need to remove the word "deliberate" from all rules.
They should change the language slightly, for me when looking a the replays in the final it was clear that the defender's arm was in a raised position as he jumped, when the attacker made contact with the ball the defender moved his leg up and his arm down to block the ball. It was a clear movement of the arm in the direction of the ball following the change of path of the ball and therefore could be deemed as a deliberate act. If the defenders arm had not moved and the ball had hit his arm you could argue that it wasn't deliberate, but regardless of how close the defender was to the attacker the defender moved his hand to the ball, therefore I think that the ref was correct.
If it had been Pickford, the pundits would have said how great his reactions were and how lucky we are to have such a keeper.
We've both watched those replays countless times and see it completely different. I see a player twitching his arm out of the way as the ball hits the attacker - no time to actually react, the defender had no possible way of deliberately deflecting the ball with any part of him - cliché 'ball to hand'. The heinous and obvious error was the ref and lino both fucking up not giving a corner initially as the ball so obviously came off the defender last. Awarding a goal kick was the work of miserably sub standard officials. If penalties are routinely awarded in those circumstances, all we'll watch is attackers belting balls at defenders' bodies in the area from 2 yards away, or is that what you call football? All of which is just so much hot air, cos the better side deservedly won, despite the goalie's howler.
I was anti-VAR at the start of the tournament but feel less hostile at the end. I think it can take credit for reducing holding at set pieces; it is ok to say the refs could do this but the fact is that they haven't. I also don't think VAR is to blame for the strange interpretations of handball, I agree with other posters that this is an area where clearer rules and greater refereeing consistency is needed. My reason for not liking VAR was never about it getting more decisions wrong, it was simply about the impact on the flow of the game. At this World Cup at least that impact has been much less than I feared.
Serious question. Would VAR have ruled out Peterborough's penalty the other night or allowed our goal to stand on Saturday ?
Penalty decisions are reviewed so yes.
Disallowed goal on Saturday... the referee’s whistle was blown before the ball hit the net so I’m unsure where it falls on the reviewable/non-reviewable scale. Referees that have VAR available to them will avoid blowing the whistle in that sort of situation...
If the ref has not blown up then yes it would definitely have been reviewable.
Serious question. Would VAR have ruled out Peterborough's penalty the other night or allowed our goal to stand on Saturday ?
Penalty decisions are reviewed so yes.
Disallowed goal on Saturday... the referee’s whistle was blown before the ball hit the net so I’m unsure where it falls on the reviewable/non-reviewable scale. Referees that have VAR available to them will avoid blowing the whistle in that sort of situation...
If the ref has not blown up then yes it would definitely have been reviewable.
I thought an Offside could be brought back even after the whistle has been blown?
Serious question. Would VAR have ruled out Peterborough's penalty the other night or allowed our goal to stand on Saturday ?
Penalty decisions are reviewed so yes.
Disallowed goal on Saturday... the referee’s whistle was blown before the ball hit the net so I’m unsure where it falls on the reviewable/non-reviewable scale. Referees that have VAR available to them will avoid blowing the whistle in that sort of situation...
If the ref has not blown up then yes it would definitely have been reviewable.
I thought an Offside could be brought back even after the whistle has been blown?
Brought back but not continued while everyone else is standing round watching!
Comments
Jimmy Gauld, 1962.
Dirty Leeds, 1961-74.
England v Argentina, 1966.
Racing Club v Celtic, 1967.
Ibrox, 1971.
Hales v Flanagan, 1979.
Schumacher v Battiston 1982.
Bradford, 1985.
England v Argentina, 1986.
Hillsbrough, 1989.
Barbados v Grenada, 1994.
And VAR is "the worst thing that ever happened in football"?
Blimey.
VAR
Putin
Pickford
Pogbar
Modric
Kane
Bonamie
Own goals
Penalties
Set pieces
Maguire
Griezmann
Trippier
Hazard
Perisic
Mbappe
France
As for VAR, I'll concede that it's been better than I expected but I still feel uncomfortable adding a different level of technology differentiating the professional game to the amateur one.
Handball will only be given, if on first viewing, the referee or assistant referee is absolutely certain that a player deliberately positioned his hand in such a way it might deflect the ball.
Absolutely unambiguous, same for all levels of football.
He also has to watch the ball as well ?
rugby - 8/10
tennis - 6/10
football - 2/10, but improving
If it had been Pickford, the pundits would have said how great his reactions were and how lucky we are to have such a keeper.
I see a player twitching his arm out of the way as the ball hits the attacker - no time to actually react, the defender had no possible way of deliberately deflecting the ball with any part of him - cliché 'ball to hand'. The heinous and obvious error was the ref and lino both fucking up not giving a corner initially as the ball so obviously came off the defender last. Awarding a goal kick was the work of miserably sub standard officials. If penalties are routinely awarded in those circumstances, all we'll watch is attackers belting balls at defenders' bodies in the area from 2 yards away, or is that what you call football?
All of which is just so much hot air, cos the better side deservedly won, despite the goalie's howler.
Biggest surprise for me is Michael Olivers voice, doesn't match his face at all.
Would VAR have ruled out Peterborough's penalty the other night or allowed our goal to stand on Saturday ?
We certainly havent had the decisions fall in our favour this season
Disallowed goal on Saturday... the referee’s whistle was blown before the ball hit the net so I’m unsure where it falls on the reviewable/non-reviewable scale. Referees that have VAR available to them will avoid blowing the whistle in that sort of situation...
If the ref has not blown up then yes it would definitely have been reviewable.