Muir versus Muir is whats is happening. One Muir the Australian has done DD and made his bid ,Roland has not excepted ,Muir No.2 now doing DD to work out his bid. While Muir No 1 sits back and waits believing his bid will not be topped. Its a game of Poker with our Club, who folds first.
From No one and no where is there evidence that Muir and McLeish have the 50 mil that Roland wants to sell the club , from what I heard they are the front for others and just looking at the state of play, on the pitch and what the main issues are off it
It’s all part of being diligent
The biggest problem now is that unless the buyers are super minted or Refbull they ain’t going to be good enough
But why would potential buyers use McLeish/Muir for that? Without disrespect to either, it seems an odd choice.
Why not?
D. Muir is an international finance person. If they asked him to find a football person to have a look at the club it makes sense that he'd ask his life long friend and international football manager Alex McLeish who has won trophies in Scotland and England as a manager and was part of the very successful Aberdeen side of the 70s and 80s as a player under Fergie. I don't see it as an add choice at all. He's got a more impressive CV than any Charlton manager under Roland (including SCP).
OR maybe we've got this all the wrong way round. Maybe Muir and McLeish see the potential in Charlton, think it can be turned around (Muir's area of expertise) and so are putting together a prospectus to present to financial big hitters that they can access via D Muir. Maybe there are no buyers behind M & M yet.
As I wrote when Duchatelet took over the Chinese word for change is made up of two other Chinese words "opportunity" and "risk".
Four years on we are back at the same point again.
Simply that if I was an Australian or Arab money man I think I would be most unlikely to commission these two gentleman to run their eye over the club for me. If I was a British/Scottish money man it might be a different view.
Wouldn't it make more sense for an Arab or South African buyer to use Brits to review a British purchase?
If any of us where buying a house in France would we speak to our local estate agent or find a French agency? Which would we trust to know more about the local rules, market, issues, etc?
I don't know what all the connections are or who is with who doing what.
I do think McLeish and D Muir are a huge step up from Fraeye, Driesen and Meire.
But surely we should try for a standard higher than that?
It's noteworthy that I haven't seen anyone in football say anything positive about Muir. And McLeish was a terrible manager (who managed Bowyer at Birmingham I believe).
McLeish won the treble at Rangers, won the league twice (despite the financial melt-down at Ibrox, got Birmingham promoted and won the league cup with them.
I don't think he's a great manager nor would I want him as Charlton boss but lets not pretend that he was "terrible" as the record proves that wrong.
He is terrible.
His treble winning Rangers side had Ricksen, Numan and Amoruso at the back, Ronald de boer, Arteta and Barry Ferguson in midfield, and going forward had Mols, Lovenkrands, Caniggia and Arveladze. Russell Slade could've won trophies with that lot.
Yes he got Birmingham promoted.........after he got them relegated. And yes he won the league cup (which to be fair was an amazing achievement) but in the same season he got them relegated again.
Sacked by Villa after one season.
Has managed 7 games in English football since May 2012.
I opened this thread expectantly this morning, as there were 159 new posts, I read a lot of them and got despondent, so I disappeared again. I’ve just come back and read the last 59 and I feel a bit better, I think. But i’m not sure. Can somebody just tell me how I’m supposed to be feeling, because this thread has become a bit like The Path To Enlightenment for me. I come here seeking answers, but each small journey along the way only raises further questions and uncertainties.... HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING?
I opened this thread expectantly this morning, as there were 159 new posts, I read a lot of them and got despondent, so I disappeared again. I’ve just come back and read the last 59 and I feel a bit better, I think. But i’m not sure. Can somebody just tell me how I’m supposed to be feeling, because this thread has become a bit like The Path To Enlightenment for me. I come here seeking answers, but each small journey along the way only raises further questions and uncertainties.... HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING?
From No one and no where is there evidence that Muir and McLeish have the 50 mil that Roland wants to sell the club , from what I heard they are the front for others and just looking at the state of play, on the pitch and what the main issues are off it
It’s all part of being diligent
The biggest problem now is that unless the buyers are super minted or Refbull they ain’t going to be good enough
But why would potential buyers use McLeish/Muir for that? Without disrespect to either, it seems an odd choice.
Why not?
D. Muir is an international finance person. If they asked him to find a football person to have a look at the club it makes sense that he'd ask his life long friend and international football manager Alex McLeish who has won trophies in Scotland and England as a manager and was part of the very successful Aberdeen side of the 70s and 80s as a player under Fergie. I don't see it as an add choice at all. He's got a more impressive CV than any Charlton manager under Roland (including SCP).
OR maybe we've got this all the wrong way round. Maybe Muir and McLeish see the potential in Charlton, think it can be turned around (Muir's area of expertise) and so are putting together a prospectus to present to financial big hitters that they can access via D Muir. Maybe there are no buyers behind M & M yet.
As I wrote when Duchatelet took over the Chinese word for change is made up of two other Chinese words "opportunity" and "risk".
Four years on we are back at the same point again.
Simply that if I was an Australian or Arab money man I think I would be most unlikely to commission these two gentleman to run their eye over the club for me. If I was a British/Scottish money man it might be a different view.
Wouldn't it make more sense for an Arab or South African buyer to use Brits to review a British purchase?
If any of us where buying a house in France would we speak to our local estate agent or find a French agency? Which would we trust to know more about the local rules, market, issues, etc?
I don't know what all the connections are or who is with who doing what.
I do think McLeish and D Muir are a huge step up from Fraeye, Driesen and Meire.
But surely we should try for a standard higher than that?
It's noteworthy that I haven't seen anyone in football say anything positive about Muir. And McLeish was a terrible manager (who managed Bowyer at Birmingham I believe).
McLeish won the treble at Rangers, won the league twice (despite the financial melt-down at Ibrox, got Birmingham promoted and won the league cup with them.
I don't think he's a great manager nor would I want him as Charlton boss but lets not pretend that he was "terrible" as the record proves that wrong.
He is terrible.
His treble winning Rangers side had Ricksen, Numan and Amoruso at the back, Ronald de boer, Arteta and Barry Ferguson in midfield, and going forward had Mols, Lovenkrands, Caniggia and Arveladze. Russell Slade could've won trophies with that lot.
Yes he got Birmingham promoted.........after he got them relegated. And yes he won the league cup (which to be fair was an amazing achievement) but in the same season he got them relegated again.
Sacked by Villa after one season.
Has managed 7 games in English football since May 2012.
A mate of mine is a retired City type who is Celtic through and through and was part of the team which helped to expose the Rangers financial irregularities. (Great way for a fan to actively damage your rivals :-) ) Just asked him what he knows about Donald Muir (with McLeish), here is his answer:
Both are same age, come from Barrhead, went to the same school, played football together. Donald is a highly competent qualified accountant, not sure if he is chartered or certified, but he was brought in by lloyds to sort out the shambles at rangers and did a great job. He got debts down and costs under control. He is a good businessman who lived in Canada for a number of years. He is a good guy, was a goalkeeper and I played football with him. A shrewd businessman who is not scared to take tough decisions.
A mate of mine is a retired City type who is Celtic through and through and was part of the team which helped to expose the Rangers financial irregularities. (Great way for a fan to actively damage your rivals :-) ) Just asked him what he knows about Donald Muir (with McLeish), here is his answer:
Both are same age, come from Barrhead, went to the same school, played football together. Donald is a highly competent qualified accountant, not sure if he is chartered or certified, but he was brought in by lloyds to sort out the shambles at rangers and did a great job. He got debts down and costs under control. He is a good businessman who lived in Canada for a number of years. He is a good guy, was a goalkeeper and I played football with him. A shrewd businessman who is not scared to take tough decisions.
If Muir takes over we will wish for the days when we got 14 chips then.
I opened this thread expectantly this morning, as there were 159 new posts, I read a lot of them and got despondent, so I disappeared again. I’ve just come back and read the last 59 and I feel a bit better, I think. But i’m not sure. Can somebody just tell me how I’m supposed to be feeling, because this thread has become a bit like The Path To Enlightenment for me. I come here seeking answers, but each small journey along the way only raises further questions and uncertainties.... HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING?
Your supposed to be feeling like you wish you supported west ham
A mate of mine is a retired City type who is Celtic through and through and was part of the team which helped to expose the Rangers financial irregularities. (Great way for a fan to actively damage your rivals :-) ) Just asked him what he knows about Donald Muir (with McLeish), here is his answer:
Both are same age, come from Barrhead, went to the same school, played football together. Donald is a highly competent qualified accountant, not sure if he is chartered or certified, but he was brought in by lloyds to sort out the shambles at rangers and did a great job. He got debts down and costs under control. He is a good businessman who lived in Canada for a number of years. He is a good guy, was a goalkeeper and I played football with him. A shrewd businessman who is not scared to take tough decisions.
If Muir takes over we will wish for the days when we got 14 chips then.
Possibly. But at least he has football in his blood. Three of my mates, including this one, are from Barrhead, and it's a religion for them. That alone makes him a step up from RD.
I opened this thread expectantly this morning, as there were 159 new posts, I read a lot of them and got despondent, so I disappeared again. I’ve just come back and read the last 59 and I feel a bit better, I think. But i’m not sure. Can somebody just tell me how I’m supposed to be feeling, because this thread has become a bit like The Path To Enlightenment for me. I come here seeking answers, but each small journey along the way only raises further questions and uncertainties.... HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING?
I read that there’s an offer on the table from the “Middle East” I think that’s where @Henry Irving sits and he’s feckin loaded.
Could Muir (the Scottish one) be working on behlaf of RD to broker a deal?
I was taking that thinking a few steps further. We know that McLeish & Muir were there on Saturday as a guest of RM, so maybe RD brought them in to see what the problems are now that KM has gone. He had lost his "ears & eyes" and wants to know the true nature of the problems before selling. Or maybe looking at what players could be sold before Jan 31st. Seems odd to me that they would be there again last night and frightens me that the team included more first teamers than U23's (and the team selection surprised most last night) so maybe KR was told to play some so that McLeish could see their worth. Especially when Muir is known to be a bit of an asset stripper / recovery man. Just a thought.
The reason I feel uneasy about this is because it reminds me of when RD first arrived. There were some dire warnings from fans of Standard Liege, but most of us (as I remember) were willing to give RD the benefit of the doubt. Turned out the SL fans were bang on the money.
Right now, we don't know any of the details of the people behind this bid, having just seen the public face of the group. But we can be forgiven for being a bit more cynical this time around, even if that cynicism turns out to be unfounded.
Fishing around on the net looking for wealthy South Africans, I found a guy called Patrice Motsepe with a personal wealth of $2.2 Billion. Owns a football club in SA and sounds like a decent bloke having given half his wealth away in 2013 to charities..., could this be our mystery man? Probably 2+2=5 but it was an interesting read.... another South African Arsenal fan wants to buy Arsenal outright in the next four years and is apparently worth $10 billion. Some very wealthy people out there.... we should be so lucky.
Muir versus Muir is whats is happening. One Muir the Australian has done DD and made his bid ,Roland has not excepted ,Muir No.2 now doing DD to work out his bid. While Muir No 1 sits back and waits believing his bid will not be topped. Its a game of Poker with our Club, who folds first.
although Roland may not have accepted it conversely do you know if he has rejected it or is it just sitting on the table?
The reason I feel uneasy about this is because it reminds me of when RD first arrived. There were some dire warnings from fans of Standard Liege, but most of us (as I remember) were willing to give RD the benefit of the doubt. Turned out the SL fans were bang on the money.
Right now, we don't know any of the details of the people behind this bid, having just seen the public face of the group. But we can be forgiven for being a bit more cynical this time around, even if that cynicism turns out to be unfounded.
The difference is that Roland created the mess at SL. Muir was brought in to try and sort out the mess at Rangers - and he did so successfully as far as Lloyds Bank were concerned. The fact the mess at Rangers was so great and continues to haunt them was not of Muir's doing.
I need to know a lot more about their interest before I join in with the mass panic as I certainly would not trust any Rangers fans opinion of Muir as if you think we are obsessed and biases towards our own club then the fans of Rangers(and Celtic) are something else, my years in Scotland opened my eyes to that.
The way I see it on the tiny amount of information we currently have is that Mcleish is an experienced football man which is what we have been lacking under RD and if Muir is as smart as non Rangers fans say he will also know that no amount of cost cutting can make Charlton a financial success in the lower leagues, the only route for us is promotions.
Back in 2006 for a short while I wrote articles for the Vital Football site. I had a tip-off from one of the writers of another club's site (can't recall which club) that McLeish was nailed on to be our next manager after Curbs. So I ran the story, but as we know that didn't happen. Perhaps he had had a chat or two with Richard Murray after all, and they kept in touch.
Muir versus Muir is whats is happening. One Muir the Australian has done DD and made his bid ,Roland has not excepted ,Muir No.2 now doing DD to work out his bid. While Muir No 1 sits back and waits believing his bid will not be topped. Its a game of Poker with our Club, who folds first.
although Roland may not have accepted it conversely do you know if he has rejected it or is it just sitting on the table?
I suspect rejected on basis someone needs to sort out £7mn Loans and Roland doesn't want to ,so stalling that bid in order to find a deal he likes better.Trouble is any future DD will throw up same problem ,unless he can find a buyer who is happy to leave those Loans with Charges in place. He has been trying to sell for a long time,his price is too high and he has no security against his Loans,and I am guessing that as of yet he has not been willing to take a loss. Muir No 2 has a history of restructuring and will understand that Ex Directors Loans are the most valuable and he has to deal with that and then find a way to restructure Rolands debt and pay him some now and maybe some in future based on performance of Club. It is a complex problem with 8 people to negotiate with, or 1 if buyer accepts that he has not got First Charge on assets.
A mate of mine is a retired City type who is Celtic through and through and was part of the team which helped to expose the Rangers financial irregularities. (Great way for a fan to actively damage your rivals :-) ) Just asked him what he knows about Donald Muir (with McLeish), here is his answer:
Both are same age, come from Barrhead, went to the same school, played football together. Donald is a highly competent qualified accountant, not sure if he is chartered or certified, but he was brought in by lloyds to sort out the shambles at rangers and did a great job. He got debts down and costs under control. He is a good businessman who lived in Canada for a number of years. He is a good guy, was a goalkeeper and I played football with him. A shrewd businessman who is not scared to take tough decisions.
So either Amos or Dillon Phillips are off this window then!
I opened this thread expectantly this morning, as there were 159 new posts, I read a lot of them and got despondent, so I disappeared again. I’ve just come back and read the last 59 and I feel a bit better, I think. But i’m not sure. Can somebody just tell me how I’m supposed to be feeling, because this thread has become a bit like The Path To Enlightenment for me. I come here seeking answers, but each small journey along the way only raises further questions and uncertainties.... HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING?
WITH YOUR HANDS? . All depends if you are a glass half empty or glass half full person. Me, I'm not getting wound up one way or another WIOTOS is the time to take stock.
If Muir is advising consortium then he will be coming up with a realistic price based on an unemotional financial assessment. Does that mean it's the low price I saw mentioned above, in which case it may have the lowest chance of being accepted.
Muir versus Muir is whats is happening. One Muir the Australian has done DD and made his bid ,Roland has not excepted ,Muir No.2 now doing DD to work out his bid. While Muir No 1 sits back and waits believing his bid will not be topped. Its a game of Poker with our Club, who folds first.
although Roland may not have accepted it conversely do you know if he has rejected it or is it just sitting on the table?
I suspect rejected on basis someone needs to sort out £7mn Loans and Roland doesn't want to ,so stalling that bid in order to find a deal he likes better.Trouble is any future DD will throw up same problem ,unless he can find a buyer who is happy to leave those Loans with Charges in place. He has been trying to sell for a long time,his price is too high and he has no security against his Loans,and I am guessing that as of yet he has not been willing to take a loss. Muir No 2 has a history of restructuring and will understand that Ex Directors Loans are the most valuable and he has to deal with that and then find a way to restructure Rolands debt and pay him some now and maybe some in future based on performance of Club. It is a complex problem with 8 people to negotiate with, or 1 if buyer accepts that he has not got First Charge on assets.
but the buyer doesn't have to negotiate with the ex-directors if he pays them back what they are owed
Comments
Its a game of Poker with our Club, who folds first.
His treble winning Rangers side had Ricksen, Numan and Amoruso at the back, Ronald de boer, Arteta and Barry Ferguson in midfield, and going forward had Mols, Lovenkrands, Caniggia and Arveladze. Russell Slade could've won trophies with that lot.
Yes he got Birmingham promoted.........after he got them relegated. And yes he won the league cup (which to be fair was an amazing achievement) but in the same season he got them relegated again.
Sacked by Villa after one season.
Has managed 7 games in English football since May 2012.
I hope and pray he doesn't become our manager.
McLeish and Muir have already been to The Valley the same of amount of times in a few days that Roland has been in four years.
Proper commitment.
But i’m not sure. Can somebody just tell me how I’m supposed to be feeling, because this thread has become a bit like The Path To Enlightenment for me. I come here seeking answers, but each small journey along the way only raises further questions and uncertainties....
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING?
A mate of mine is a retired City type who is Celtic through and through and was part of the team which helped to expose the Rangers financial irregularities. (Great way for a fan to actively damage your rivals :-) ) Just asked him what he knows about Donald Muir (with McLeish), here is his answer:
Both are same age, come from Barrhead, went to the same school, played football together.
Donald is a highly competent qualified accountant, not sure if he is chartered or certified, but he was brought in by lloyds to sort out the shambles at rangers and did a great job. He got debts down and costs under control.
He is a good businessman who lived in Canada for a number of years. He is a good guy, was a goalkeeper and I played football with him.
A shrewd businessman who is not scared to take tough decisions.
Right now, we don't know any of the details of the people behind this bid, having just seen the public face of the group. But we can be forgiven for being a bit more cynical this time around, even if that cynicism turns out to be unfounded.
The way I see it on the tiny amount of information we currently have is that Mcleish is an experienced football man which is what we have been lacking under RD and if Muir is as smart as non Rangers fans say he will also know that no amount of cost cutting can make Charlton a financial success in the lower leagues, the only route for us is promotions.
He has been trying to sell for a long time,his price is too high and he has no security against his Loans,and I am guessing that as of yet he has not been willing to take a loss.
Muir No 2 has a history of restructuring and will understand that Ex Directors Loans are the most valuable and he has to deal with that and then find a way to restructure Rolands debt and pay him some now and maybe some in future based on performance of Club.
It is a complex problem with 8 people to negotiate with, or 1 if buyer accepts that he has not got First Charge on assets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muir_(surname)