What's all this about Corbyn being unelectable? He was elected as Labour leader twice and has won his seat in every general election since 1983.
It's probably only the 75% of people in the polls saying they're voting against Labour that think he's unelectable, not the 25% who say they're voting for him.
Do I think I've been to lied to? Perhaps. Do I think the EU are also a corrupt, lying bunch? Absolutely.
Still, keep venting your spleen on here with your group of merry men, if it'll make you feel better.
So, can you answer the question. Are you more upset at the people telling you you've been lied to; or at the people who have lied?
I'd go with The people telling me I've been lied to, with respect, are forum dwellers who happen to follow the same football team as me. I don't have to believe them when they tell me I've been lied to, and I don't.
French election first round on Sunday. 4 candidates with fairly even polling at the moment, if they end up with a run off between Mélenchon and Le Pen, then the chaos that will cause on the markets and to the EU will massively overshadow Brexit. For a start, I don't think the Euro would survive under either candidate...
What's all this about Corbyn being unelectable? He was elected as Labour leader twice and has won his seat in every general election since 1983.
Because he simply is, peoples perception of him is ridiculously negative. (YouGov)
His constituency is Islington North, which doesn't say much about his appeal with the common people or average voter either. Let's not forget that his position as leader of the Labour party has been precarious at times, and he's largely been propped up by the mob mentality of Momentum et al.
Not to mention, at a time where the news is dominated by fear over the economic uncertainties around Brexit, he's simply been ineffectual. There's been many opportunities for him to seize the moment and he's failed.
At this moment the UK Government does not have an opposition IMO, and the polling numbers demonstrate this perfectly:
Do I think I've been to lied to? Perhaps. Do I think the EU are also a corrupt, lying bunch? Absolutely.
Still, keep venting your spleen on here with your group of merry men, if it'll make you feel better.
So, can you answer the question. Are you more upset at the people telling you you've been lied to; or at the people who have lied?
I'd go with The people telling me I've been lied to, with respect, are forum dwellers who happen to follow the same football team as me. I don't have to believe them when they tell me I've been lied to, and I don't.
Upset though? Not quite, chizzy.
You don't think you were lied to by the leave campaign?
Well, honestly, good on you for sticking to your beliefs, despite the incontrovertible evidence. That's pretty tough skinned of you to stand up against all the evidence and decide that you're right to believe people like Johnson, Farage, Gove, Hannan, Banks, Fox and Rees-Mogg. It's absolutely admirable to stick to your guns on a subject where most people are sure there were lies told. Well done.
By the way, where's this week's £350m hospital being built?
Any chance that Labour might force Corbyn out and install someone with more of a chance before the election?
Even as a Conservative member I always felt that Labour needed new leadership, if only to provide a real opposition that will hold the government to account.
Unfortunately I can't see this happening until Corbyn loses big, and by a large margin too. Mainly because his core support appear to be a very vocal minority who appear to mob those who don't toe their line (i.e Momentum).
Not to mention that with under two months until the election date, there isn't even a great deal of time for campaigning - let alone conducting all the work required to select a new leader. (Work that would obviously mean election campaigning would have to be put on hold.)
This is going to be a nightmare for me. For the first time in years I am back on the Eltham electoral roll. Clive Efford is the sitting MP, and he is well known for his excellent constituency work. He has materially helped my family (as recorded here) and is one of the most active pro football fan MPs in the house.I think he is pro Remain, and he is deffo not a Corbynista. Yet a vote for Labour in this election will be taken by Corbyn as a vote for him.
How much chance do the Tories have of grabbing the seat, anyone know?
Last election he had roughly 18,400 votes to 15,750 for the tories. UKIP had over 6,000 so it won't take much of a swing for Spencer Drury of the conservatives to get in. I agree though with your dilemma, I personally can't vote for Corbyn which a vote for Efford would effectively be........
French election first round on Sunday. 4 candidates with fairly even polling at the moment, if they end up with a run off between Mélenchon and Le Pen, then the chaos that will cause on the markets and to the EU will massively overshadow Brexit. For a start, I don't think the Euro would survive under either candidate...
That's a fair comment on the doomsday scenario there. As to whether that scenario will come to pass, I note that since Brexit:
- the Austrians turned away from the Far Right presidential candidate in the rerun in September - in the Netherlands, Willders polled below expectations - in Germany the SPD is reviving to challenge Merkel from the (moderate) left, while the AfD leader has resigned.
So the lesson is, if you are getting your news about European countries through the prism of the UK media, it might turn out not to be the full picture.
Any chance that Labour might force Corbyn out and install someone with more of a chance before the election?
None whatsoever. And as anyone who saw Mandelson on C4 News tonight will know, Corbyn will own the result. Shame the consequences will be visited on everyone else.
Bit early to predict as a lot will depend on how parties run their campaigns and their central messages.
However, I reckon it could end up like this:
1. Large turnout to support Brexit and Remain opinions. 2. Tories get larger majority due to Brexit voters 3. Remainers from Labour, LD's and some Tories vote for LibDems. 4. Voters desert Labour as few actually want Corbyn/Momentum. 5. LibDems become official opposition and Labour pushed to third place. 6. SNP lose seats to Tories in Scotland due to dislike of the Krankie.
The Tories have started their campaign incredibly confidently. For those who are politically ambivalent (which by now is probably a lot of the country) I suspect political colour is less important than a confident leader - look how well Thatcher and Blair did at the polls when they were on top of their game.
Bit early to predict as a lot will depend on how parties run their campaigns and their central messages.
However, I reckon it could end up like this:
1. Large turnout to support Brexit and Remain opinions. 2. Tories get larger majority due to Brexit voters 3. Remainers from Labour, LD's and some Tories vote for LibDems. 4. Voters desert Labour as few actually want Corbyn/Momentum. 5. LibDems become official opposition and Labour pushed to third place. 6. SNP lose seats to Tories in Scotland due to dislike of the Krankie.
The Tories have started their campaign incredibly confidently. For those who are politically ambivalent (which by now is probably a lot of the country) I suspect political colour is less important than a confident leader - look how well Thatcher and Blair did at the polls when they were on top of their game.
You're underestimating the resilience of the Labour vote and overestimating the Lib Dems, who have nothing on the ground in most constituencies. I hope!
French election first round on Sunday. 4 candidates with fairly even polling at the moment, if they end up with a run off between Mélenchon and Le Pen, then the chaos that will cause on the markets and to the EU will massively overshadow Brexit. For a start, I don't think the Euro would survive under either candidate...
That's a fair comment on the doomsday scenario there. As to whether that scenario will come to pass, I note that since Brexit:
- the Austrians turned away from the Far Right presidential candidate in the rerun in September - in the Netherlands, Willders polled below expectations - in Germany the SPD is reviving to challenge Merkel from the (moderate) left, while the AfD leader has resigned.
So the lesson is, if you are getting your news about European countries through the prism of the UK media, it might turn out not to be the full picture.
What's changed in France, is that previously it was assumed a moderate (e.g. Macron) would get through to the last two and beat Le Pen easily. The "anyone but Le Pen" candidate.
The difference now is that he has lost some support, and Melenchon is gaining. Melechon's policies (for different reasons) are just as radical and divisive as Le Pen's, and are far to the left of Corbyn's for example. Leaving aside his tax plans, he wants to renegotiate EU treaties and quit Nato, the World Trade Organisation, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, and end independence of European Central Bank and take control of Bank of France...
General elections in this country are shockingly bad. More than half the electorate seems to believe that they are voting for a prime minister, when they aren't.
Almost as bad as in the US (state electoral college) the first past the post system means the majority of voters' choices are ignored and policy is written around the interests of a limited number of 'key demographics'
Actual policies are ignored in the main anyway.
Not seen it myself but a left leaning friend told me today that Giles Brandreth has been out and about explaining policies to some apparently Tory leaning voters. They all thought they were fantastic policies until they were told they were Corbyn/Labour policies. Then embarrassing about turn less so.
French election first round on Sunday. 4 candidates with fairly even polling at the moment, if they end up with a run off between Mélenchon and Le Pen, then the chaos that will cause on the markets and to the EU will massively overshadow Brexit. For a start, I don't think the Euro would survive under either candidate...
That's a fair comment on the doomsday scenario there. As to whether that scenario will come to pass, I note that since Brexit:
- the Austrians turned away from the Far Right presidential candidate in the rerun in September - in the Netherlands, Willders polled below expectations - in Germany the SPD is reviving to challenge Merkel from the (moderate) left, while the AfD leader has resigned.
So the lesson is, if you are getting your news about European countries through the prism of the UK media, it might turn out not to be the full picture.
What's changed in France, is that previously it was assumed a moderate (e.g. Macron) would get through to the last two and beat Le Pen easily. The "anyone but Le Pen" candidate.
The difference now is that he has lost some support, and Melenchon is gaining. Melechon's policies (for different reasons) are just as radical and divisive as Le Pen's, and are far to the left of Corbyn's for example. Leaving aside his tax plans, he wants to renegotiate EU treaties and quit Nato, the World Trade Organisation, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, and end independence of European Central Bank and take control of Bank of France...
Yes, sure, but let's wait and see. Much of the UK media was getting similarly frothy (at both ends of the spectrum) about a big Wilders victory. It didn't happen. And when it didn't happen, the UK media stopped talking about the previously "crucially important" "bellweather" Netherlands. Why? Did it sink into the sea or something?
I think Corbyn has been a bit of a mug today, but he can still put things right. Don't help create the two thirds majority needed tomorrow in order for May to have her election, vote against it. The idea being that the Tories created the circumstances for the Brexit vote, they can get on with it and the rest of us can scrutinise their achievement in 2019. In the meantime Labour can hammer in to the Tories how crap they are on public services, and as their failures in the Brexit negotiations begin to stack up they can hammer into the Tories on that front too. Surely from Labour's point of view the next two years would be better spent with this particular government failing public services and on Brexit, leaving Labour with some hope of gaining votes from those disillusioned with the Tory political class.
I think Corbyn has been a bit of a mug today, but he can still put things right. Don't help create the two thirds majority needed tomorrow in order for May to have her election, vote against it. The idea being that the Tories created the circumstances for the Brexit vote, they can get on with it and the rest of us can scrutinise their achievement in 2019. In the meantime Labour can hammer in to the Tories how crap they are on public services, and as their failures in the Brexit negotiations begin to stack up they can hammer into the Tories on that front too. Surely from Labour's point of view the next two years would be better spent with this particular government failing public services and on Brexit, leaving Labour with some hope of gaining votes from those disillusioned with the Tory political class.
Corbyn will vote for it simply because he thinks he can win an election.
And you know what, after Brexit and Trump, he just might do it. The Tories' worst enemy has always been their hubris.
Well I'm voting for Europe - would rather there be a coalition of tories, labour, liberals etc... who want to save us from the imending disaster! Not a lot of time, but now is the moment!
Will you be voting muttley? The last vote there was only one issue and it confused you. A general election will multiple issues will fry your brain.
French election first round on Sunday. 4 candidates with fairly even polling at the moment, if they end up with a run off between Mélenchon and Le Pen, then the chaos that will cause on the markets and to the EU will massively overshadow Brexit. For a start, I don't think the Euro would survive under either candidate...
That's a fair comment on the doomsday scenario there. As to whether that scenario will come to pass, I note that since Brexit:
- the Austrians turned away from the Far Right presidential candidate in the rerun in September - in the Netherlands, Willders polled below expectations - in Germany the SPD is reviving to challenge Merkel from the (moderate) left, while the AfD leader has resigned.
So the lesson is, if you are getting your news about European countries through the prism of the UK media, it might turn out not to be the full picture.
The pattern of most elections in the recent past is that the mainstream parties/politicians do poorly and people seen as outsiders do well. There is no discernible left/right pattern to this which is why the idea we are in the grip of some surge of right wing politics is wrong. In Holland it was the anti establishment Greens who took seats from the government. In France it looks like Melenchon will be the surprise outsider. In England it is the peripheral Liberals who are picking up support. None of these outsiders have credible alternatives (nor does Trump).
This hollowing out of support for the mainstream parties is the most striking aspect of politics today,and leaves democracy weak.
I think Corbyn has been a bit of a mug today, but he can still put things right. Don't help create the two thirds majority needed tomorrow in order for May to have her election, vote against it. The idea being that the Tories created the circumstances for the Brexit vote, they can get on with it and the rest of us can scrutinise their achievement in 2019. In the meantime Labour can hammer in to the Tories how crap they are on public services, and as their failures in the Brexit negotiations begin to stack up they can hammer into the Tories on that front too. Surely from Labour's point of view the next two years would be better spent with this particular government failing public services and on Brexit, leaving Labour with some hope of gaining votes from those disillusioned with the Tory political class.
Corbyn will vote for it simply because he thinks he can win an election.
And you know what, after Brexit and Trump, he just might do it. The Tories' worst enemy has always been their hubris.
Not a chance he can vote against it. First it looks defeatist. Unless a miracle happens the Tories will win, we all know that, the real battle is in how many they win by. Not much change it's a draw, Labour gain and Corbyn can claim that as a victory. He knows this is probably the only slim chance he'll ever get at a GE, personally why wouldn't he go for it?
Is it me or has the only one that has 100% backed JC to be prime minister on the 9th June is Diane Abbott? Every other labour mp stutters and stumbles when asked if Jezza is the right perspn to take them into an election.
Comments
I don't have to believe them when they tell me I've been lied to, and I don't.
Upset though? Not quite, chizzy.
His constituency is Islington North, which doesn't say much about his appeal with the common people or average voter either. Let's not forget that his position as leader of the Labour party has been precarious at times, and he's largely been propped up by the mob mentality of Momentum et al.
Not to mention, at a time where the news is dominated by fear over the economic uncertainties around Brexit, he's simply been ineffectual. There's been many opportunities for him to seize the moment and he's failed.
At this moment the UK Government does not have an opposition IMO, and the polling numbers demonstrate this perfectly:
Well, honestly, good on you for sticking to your beliefs, despite the incontrovertible evidence. That's pretty tough skinned of you to stand up against all the evidence and decide that you're right to believe people like Johnson, Farage, Gove, Hannan, Banks, Fox and Rees-Mogg. It's absolutely admirable to stick to your guns on a subject where most people are sure there were lies told. Well done.
By the way, where's this week's £350m hospital being built?
Unfortunately I can't see this happening until Corbyn loses big, and by a large margin too. Mainly because his core support appear to be a very vocal minority who appear to mob those who don't toe their line (i.e Momentum).
Not to mention that with under two months until the election date, there isn't even a great deal of time for campaigning - let alone conducting all the work required to select a new leader. (Work that would obviously mean election campaigning would have to be put on hold.)
- the Austrians turned away from the Far Right presidential candidate in the rerun in September
- in the Netherlands, Willders polled below expectations
- in Germany the SPD is reviving to challenge Merkel from the (moderate) left, while the AfD leader has resigned.
So the lesson is, if you are getting your news about European countries through the prism of the UK media, it might turn out not to be the full picture.
Don't think we're out of the EU until 2019!
Unless Tiny Tim and the mad Greens get elected.
Heaven forbid!
However, I reckon it could end up like this:
1. Large turnout to support Brexit and Remain opinions.
2. Tories get larger majority due to Brexit voters
3. Remainers from Labour, LD's and some Tories vote for LibDems.
4. Voters desert Labour as few actually want Corbyn/Momentum.
5. LibDems become official opposition and Labour pushed to third place.
6. SNP lose seats to Tories in Scotland due to dislike of the Krankie.
The Tories have started their campaign incredibly confidently. For those who are politically ambivalent (which by now is probably a lot of the country) I suspect political colour is less important than a confident leader - look how well Thatcher and Blair did at the polls when they were on top of their game.
Are there actually people - fully functioning adults - that genuinely believe that?
The difference now is that he has lost some support, and Melenchon is gaining. Melechon's policies (for different reasons) are just as radical and divisive as Le Pen's, and are far to the left of Corbyn's for example. Leaving aside his tax plans, he wants to renegotiate EU treaties and quit Nato, the World Trade Organisation, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, and end independence of European Central Bank and take control of Bank of France...
Almost as bad as in the US (state electoral college) the first past the post system means the majority of voters' choices are ignored and policy is written around the interests of a limited number of 'key demographics'
Actual policies are ignored in the main anyway.
Not seen it myself but a left leaning friend told me today that Giles Brandreth has been out and about explaining policies to some apparently Tory leaning voters. They all thought they were fantastic policies until they were told they were Corbyn/Labour policies. Then embarrassing about turn less so.
Don't help create the two thirds majority needed tomorrow in order for May to have her election, vote against it.
The idea being that the Tories created the circumstances for the Brexit vote, they can get on with it and the rest of us can scrutinise their achievement in 2019.
In the meantime Labour can hammer in to the Tories how crap they are on public services, and as their failures in the Brexit negotiations begin to stack up they can hammer into the Tories on that front too.
Surely from Labour's point of view the next two years would be better spent with this particular government failing public services and on Brexit, leaving Labour with some hope of gaining votes from those disillusioned with the Tory political class.
Can only see them picking up a handful from labour at best.
And you know what, after Brexit and Trump, he just might do it. The Tories' worst enemy has always been their hubris.
There is no discernible left/right pattern to this which is why the idea we are in the grip of some surge of right wing politics is wrong. In Holland it was the anti establishment Greens who took seats from the government. In France it looks like Melenchon will be the surprise outsider. In England it is the peripheral Liberals who are picking up support. None of these outsiders have credible alternatives (nor does Trump).
This hollowing out of support for the mainstream parties is the most striking aspect of politics today,and leaves democracy weak.