All very interesting at the moment, but very much expected to be fair.
Up until the snap election it was clear that Labour were clueless and there was no real urgency to stop that. It stands to reason that after the announcement they would have to organise themselves and perhaps try and look a bit more organised and viable.
That little lot adds up to 91%. Surely there's currently more than 9% of voters who are either undecided, won't vote or Greens, DUP etc, etc? Or more importantly, SNP. Edited to add whatever that welsh lot are called. Or is Britain Elects a misnomer?
So much so that the average of all current polls has increased their lead by 7.7% since when they began their stint in office.
In all seriousness though, I know recent polls have shown a slight decrease in their rating, it doesn't strike me as a particularly accurate claim when it's said that "people are reacting" to their failings.
By all accounts, they're still doing a lot better than they should be!
Edit: Apparently I was wrong, this rolling average (so will lessen the effect of individual polls, albeit will potentially be slightly delayed upon a change in trend) suggests there's no such decrease:
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
She might want to honour the will of the British people but she will fail. Have you heard or read anything (beyond Brexit means Brexit) that indicates these jokers have even half a clue as to what they're doing?
If the will of the British people as framed by the referendum is anything to go by, there should be a hard Brexit today, all EU nationals should be given three months to leave the country, provision made to receive all UK expats living in the EU in three months time, all funding in both directions should stop today, a hard steel and concrete wall should be built immediately along the 400km of the Irish land border, and any trespassers should be shot on sight. We should then immediately operate under the World Trade rules.
If you think I am being silly then: A) I believe there are some pro brexiters who will read my diatribe above and agree with every word. My description is more detailed than anything put out by any pro Brexit person. C) My description is straightforward, and you don't have to elect me on a blank cheque of raw power in order to do it.
Brexit means Brexit which means what I have described above, so all you brexiters stop being so wishy washy and get on with it as I have described.
On the other hand Corbyn is a man of peace and principle who doesn't want to vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button, whilst Theresa May is clearly salivating at the prospect.
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
Could you please point me to the quotes Corbyn has made where he says he intends to go against the will of the people? I must have missed it.
Soo.. of all the things that's what you picked up on?
I could have also pointed out that he supported talking with the IRA (and guess what we did and it lead to relative peace in NI) and that he is the leader of the Labour Party, not the Communist Party - but yes he is left-wing that's for sure.
I would also add that although I would describe myself as left of centre in terms of political leaning, I am not a Corbyn apologist - I think he is likely to bring about the death of the Labour Party and that saddens me.
But for balance, which was the point of my initial post, May scares the living daylights out of me.
Strong and Stable, Strong and Stable - some no name housing minister was on Radio 4 this morning and within the first 30 seconds he said 'Strong and Stable' and he ended the interview with 'Strong and Stable'. FFS why can't these automatons think for themselves?
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
On one side a Labour leader who wants to protect the NHS, is against privatising national assets such as the Royal Mail and is for raising welfare in line with prices.
On the other a leader wanting to further restrict legal aid, supports the bedroom tax and supports lowering corporation tax.
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
She might want to honour the will of the British people but she will fail. Have you heard or read anything (beyond Brexit means Brexit) that indicates these jokers have even half a clue as to what they're doing?
If the will of the British people as framed by the referendum is anything to go by, there should be a hard Brexit today, all EU nationals should be given three months to leave the country, provision made to receive all UK expats living in the EU in three months time, all funding in both directions should stop today, a hard steel and concrete wall should be built immediately along the 400km of the Irish land border, and any trespassers should be shot on sight. We should then immediately operate under the World Trade rules.
How was the will of the British people framed during the referendum? I don't seem to recall either box having that nonsense beside it.
This is simply too absurd to even attempt to address, it's a mixture of things we've discussed before.. repeatedly, and a few you seem to have dreamt up.
If you think I am being silly then: A) I believe there are some pro brexiters who will read my diatribe above and agree with every word. My description is more detailed than anything put out by any pro Brexit person. C) My description is straightforward, and you don't have to elect me on a blank cheque of raw power in order to do it.
You're correct about one thing: I do think you're being silly.
I'm sure there's some pro-brexit voters who agree with what you said, but I also know that there are people who believe the earth is flat. It means nothing if "some people believe it", because some people believe anything.
Brexit means Brexit which means what I have described above, so all you brexiters stop being so wishy washy and get on with it as I have described.
So you're clearly concerned that there's no plan, and that's good: we should all be. But you seem to think you know exactly what it means when nobody else does?
On the other hand Corbyn is a man of peace and principle who doesn't want to vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button, whilst Theresa May is clearly salivating at the prospect.
Nobody has wanted to "vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button", not since those capabilities were acquired and certainly not currently.
Come on, Seth. You know that's just hyperbole.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
Give me strength, but more to the point - give you strength; because it really does sound like your world is half fantasy and half disaster movie.
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn both intend to deliver Brexit (sometimes called "the will of the people"). To suggest the Tories are the only party committed to leaving the EU is ridiculous.
Labour is a social democratic party, not a communist party. Significant difference.
To suggest Jeremy Corbyn "supports" the IRA is childish nonsense. He was a proponent of talks with the IRA. He wasn't the only political leader to do so. Margaret Thatcher, John Major and Tony Blair all held talks with the IRA.
So, if your only criteria for choosing whom to vote for are 1) delivering Brexit, 2) not a communist party and 3) open to talks with the IRA, then the Tories and Labour are neck and neck.
Tory Government Deficit - Very High. Borrowing - From Rich individuals and organisations Up (over double since the last Labour government). Selling of Prized Assets - Royal Mail, NHS privatisation etc. Main Policy - Austerity. Main Players - Theresa May - Wants to hide. No TV debates. Allegedly no public invited to her speaches and visits. Boris Johnson - bumbling buffoon, who was happy to quote 350 million pound for the NHS if we vote Brexit. Complete LIE. Dr Liam Fox - Telling business people they should get of the Golf course on Friday afternoon and do some work !! Tagline - Strong Government & Stable Economy.
Charlton Regime Deficit - As per the account 13million Loss?. Borrowing - Loans to Roland Up year on year. Selling of Prized Assets - Kermogant, Morrison, Lookman etc Main Policy - Operate within a ridiculously small budget. Main Players - Roland - Hides in Belgium, has not been to a Charlton game in 3 years !! Robinson - Bumbles through all interviews. Told club is it not for sale. Next day leaks of Club being sold. Miere - Unqualified to be CEO. Telling fans they are customers. Being bandied around - Better the devil you know.
Would you Vote for the Charlton Regime ? I say vote for ANYONE but the Tories !!
Not to rush to the defence of the tories but the deficit is back down to pre 2007 levels and debt will of course continue to rise as long as a deficit exists.
Not in cash terms it's not and even reports in the Telegraph are on the pessimistic side.
I'm not celebrating that 7 years of austerity has managed to get us back to a point we were at 10 years ago quite yet.
You make a very valid point. Politicians will use the yardstick that gives out the message they want. If my credit card debt goes up do I say it's gone down because my salary went up. No, I would say my cash borrowings have increased but affordability is OK because my salary increase covers the repayments.
If supermarket prices go up and I buy less with my shopping budget, does it make sense to say my spending has been cut when in fact I have simply been able to buy less.
Sounds gobbledegook, but it’s how a rise is manipulated to be called a fall and a fall is manipulated to be called a rise.
So you are right, looking at cash, our deficit has not gone down, and has in fact increased in real terms if you take account of inflation.
So if we cut the gobbledegook and talk about cash, we can see that spending on the NHS in 2005/06 was £76.4bn, and by 2017 it’s risen to £135bn. So we can agree thanks to @Bournemouth Addick exposure of fake news how figures are manipulated and that in fact the national debt has gone up and NHS spending has nearly doubled. In reality we have borrowed more cash and spent more cash. If government's borrowed more cash and government's spent less cash we need to find out who's knicking the money.
Talk of a fall in national debt is the same bollocks as the talk of a cut in NHS spending, it ensures the truth that exposes the root of the problem can't get in the way of the politics.
You're absolutely right that it is unhelpful to rely exclusively on increases/decreases in the bottom line cash figure. Particularly so when comparing over the long term. It is always more useful to look at the longer term trend and how any changes compare with the relative health of the economy i.e. when the the economy is doing better then more in real terms is spent on public services yet the % to GDP may remain unchanged. And vice versa of course.
So looking at the trends in investing/spending in the NHS this sort of data would suggest there's still some differences between the various government approaches:
Do you have a source for those cash spend figures btw as this source suggests your top line figure for NHS spending is less than you've quoted?
I know this is my third go and it's not even 11:00, but "strong and stable"? Don't make me laugh. How strong and stable was Cameron - he didn't get the result he wanted in the referendum so he fucked off - who's to say May won't do the same thing if she wins but not with the landslide she wants?
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
She might want to honour the will of the British people but she will fail. Have you heard or read anything (beyond Brexit means Brexit) that indicates these jokers have even half a clue as to what they're doing?
If the will of the British people as framed by the referendum is anything to go by, there should be a hard Brexit today, all EU nationals should be given three months to leave the country, provision made to receive all UK expats living in the EU in three months time, all funding in both directions should stop today, a hard steel and concrete wall should be built immediately along the 400km of the Irish land border, and any trespassers should be shot on sight. We should then immediately operate under the World Trade rules.
How was the will of the British people framed during the referendum? I don't seem to recall either box having that nonsense beside it.
This is simply too absurd to even attempt to address, it's a mixture of things we've discussed before.. repeatedly, and a few you seem to have dreamt up.
If you think I am being silly then: A) I believe there are some pro brexiters who will read my diatribe above and agree with every word. My description is more detailed than anything put out by any pro Brexit person. C) My description is straightforward, and you don't have to elect me on a blank cheque of raw power in order to do it.
You're correct about one thing: I do think you're being silly.
I'm sure there's some pro-brexit voters who agree with what you said, but I also know that there are people who believe the earth is flat. It means nothing if "some people believe it", because some people believe anything.
Brexit means Brexit which means what I have described above, so all you brexiters stop being so wishy washy and get on with it as I have described.
So you're clearly concerned that there's no plan, and that's good: we should all be. But you seem to think you know exactly what it means when nobody else does?
On the other hand Corbyn is a man of peace and principle who doesn't want to vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button, whilst Theresa May is clearly salivating at the prospect.
Nobody has wanted to "vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button", not since those capabilities were acquired and certainly not currently.
Come on, Seth. You know that's just hyperbole.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
Give me strength, but more to the point - give you strength; because it really does sound like your world is half fantasy and half disaster movie.
Thank you for your analysis. Not being sarcastic in my reply to you. My point is that brexit can mean anything right now, and no brexiteers as far as i can see have suggested how it will work out, which I why I wrote my extreme description because it is a valid as any other, unless you can enlighten me on the plan. However as you said nobody knows.
My post was in response to the 'will of the British people verses an IRA supporting communist' line which is more absurd than the Brexit I described. As for the Nuclear thing I am very happy to totally agree with Corbyn on this, I am unashamed about it, I would never push the nuclear button, and I would not want anybody to do it for me, May would push that button and Corbyn wouldn't, if the only issue was this, and it was so black and white, then I would support Corbyn all day long.
On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
She might want to honour the will of the British people but she will fail. Have you heard or read anything (beyond Brexit means Brexit) that indicates these jokers have even half a clue as to what they're doing?
If the will of the British people as framed by the referendum is anything to go by, there should be a hard Brexit today, all EU nationals should be given three months to leave the country, provision made to receive all UK expats living in the EU in three months time, all funding in both directions should stop today, a hard steel and concrete wall should be built immediately along the 400km of the Irish land border, and any trespassers should be shot on sight. We should then immediately operate under the World Trade rules.
If you think I am being silly then: A) I believe there are some pro brexiters who will read my diatribe above and agree with every word. My description is more detailed than anything put out by any pro Brexit person. C) My description is straightforward, and you don't have to elect me on a blank cheque of raw power in order to do it.
Brexit means Brexit which means what I have described above, so all you brexiters stop being so wishy washy and get on with it as I have described.
On the other hand Corbyn is a man of peace and principle who doesn't want to vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button, whilst Theresa May is clearly salivating at the prospect.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
More important than that, we need to sort out the B ) thing....
I was listening on the radio yesterday to Boris (I think) moaning that Corbyn would be reluctant to use nukes and reluctant to go to war. Call me old fashioned but isn't that a good thing?
I am sure when I was growing up we didn't want a war conventional or otherwise. Has public opinion changed so much?
I know this is my third go and it's not even 11:00, but "strong and stable"? Don't make me laugh. How strong and stable was Cameron - he didn't get the result he wanted in the referendum so he fucked off - who's to say May won't do the same thing if she wins but not with the landslide she wants?
It might well be my working class chip on my shoulder but whenever I hear 'strong & stable' I think of a ruling elite arrogant in their own certainty. The say 'strong & stable', I hear 'You lot can't be trusted to rule'.
For me top priorities are in no particular order : 1) defence 2) immigration 3) welfare/benefits
I'm a tory voter and voted to leave the EU. It also looks like I'm in a small minority on this forum.
I think that every party has their pros and cons. In my opinion there will never be a perfect government but have always sided more towards the tories manifesto and I can't see that changing this time round.
The Tory manifesto won't say 'we will actively take money and funding away from the poor, the young, and the disabled and cut taxes for the rich and give lucrative contracts or funding to private companies we are shareholders in', but that will be what they do (and what they are currently trying to do or actively doing).
For me top priorities are in no particular order : 1) defence 2) immigration 3) welfare/benefits
I'm a tory voter and voted to leave the EU. It also looks like I'm in a small minority on this forum.
I think that every party has their pros and cons. In my opinion there will never be a perfect government but have always sided more towards the tories manifesto and I can't see that changing this time round.
Specifically, what about defence, immigration and welfare/benefits? I think all parties have policies about them. the Tories are cutting defence, talking about cutting immigration but failing, and have put further caps on benefits.
I think nuclear weapons have prevented wars but us (the UK) haveing nuclear weapons has made no difference. I think Trident is a waste of money when there are cheaper alternatives. As a weapon, if you use Trident it has failed!
However, the Labour party have voted to continue with Trident, even though Corbyn disagrees with it. I think this is the wrong choice but actually Labour seem to me to be committing more money on defence than the Tories. Simply by following what people from both parties have said! The Tories are including pensions in the 2% they have to meet on defence spending and Labour are saying they will sign up to the 2% without that particular fudge!
That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.
Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
Comments
On the other an IRA supporting communist.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
Of course the rest of the population is still heavily pro-Tory, we cannot expect the average voter to be as intelligent or well-read as a Lifer
Have you heard or read anything (beyond Brexit means Brexit) that indicates these jokers have even half a clue as to what they're doing?
If the will of the British people as framed by the referendum is anything to go by, there should be a hard Brexit today, all EU nationals should be given three months to leave the country, provision made to receive all UK expats living in the EU in three months time, all funding in both directions should stop today, a hard steel and concrete wall should be built immediately along the 400km of the Irish land border, and any trespassers should be shot on sight. We should then immediately operate under the World Trade rules.
If you think I am being silly then:
A) I believe there are some pro brexiters who will read my diatribe above and agree with every word.
C) My description is straightforward, and you don't have to elect me on a blank cheque of raw power in order to do it.
Brexit means Brexit which means what I have described above, so all you brexiters stop being so wishy washy and get on with it as I have described.
On the other hand Corbyn is a man of peace and principle who doesn't want to vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button, whilst Theresa May is clearly salivating at the prospect.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
I would also add that although I would describe myself as left of centre in terms of political leaning, I am not a Corbyn apologist - I think he is likely to bring about the death of the Labour Party and that saddens me.
But for balance, which was the point of my initial post, May scares the living daylights out of me.
Strong and Stable, Strong and Stable - some no name housing minister was on Radio 4 this morning and within the first 30 seconds he said 'Strong and Stable' and he ended the interview with 'Strong and Stable'. FFS why can't these automatons think for themselves?
On the other a leader wanting to further restrict legal aid, supports the bedroom tax and supports lowering corporation tax.
Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
Labour is a social democratic party, not a communist party. Significant difference.
To suggest Jeremy Corbyn "supports" the IRA is childish nonsense. He was a proponent of talks with the IRA. He wasn't the only political leader to do so. Margaret Thatcher, John Major and Tony Blair all held talks with the IRA.
So, if your only criteria for choosing whom to vote for are 1) delivering Brexit, 2) not a communist party and 3) open to talks with the IRA, then the Tories and Labour are neck and neck.
So looking at the trends in investing/spending in the NHS this sort of data would suggest there's still some differences between the various government approaches:
Do you have a source for those cash spend figures btw as this source suggests your top line figure for NHS spending is less than you've quoted?
https://kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget
My post was in response to the 'will of the British people verses an IRA supporting communist' line which is more absurd than the Brexit I described.
As for the Nuclear thing I am very happy to totally agree with Corbyn on this, I am unashamed about it, I would never push the nuclear button, and I would not want anybody to do it for me, May would push that button and Corbyn wouldn't, if the only issue was this, and it was so black and white, then I would support Corbyn all day long.
I am sure when I was growing up we didn't want a war conventional or otherwise. Has public opinion changed so much?
1) defence
2) immigration
3) welfare/benefits
I'm a tory voter and voted to leave the EU. It also looks like I'm in a small minority on this forum.
I think that every party has their pros and cons. In my opinion there will never be a perfect government but have always sided more towards the tories manifesto and I can't see that changing this time round.
However, the Labour party have voted to continue with Trident, even though Corbyn disagrees with it. I think this is the wrong choice but actually Labour seem to me to be committing more money on defence than the Tories. Simply by following what people from both parties have said! The Tories are including pensions in the 2% they have to meet on defence spending and Labour are saying they will sign up to the 2% without that particular fudge!
Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.