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The General Election - June 8th 2017

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  • Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
  • As a Virgin customer - I wouldn't associate those two words together!

    Virgin Care is actually owned by the Virgin Group. Virgin Media isn't. That is wholly owned by an American company Liberty Global. I assume they merely pay Branson a fee to use his brand name. So the two might well be very different.
  • We should switch over to the German system of healthcare, free at the point of service, free to homeless or disabled and just taken out of your pay check each month, regulated by an independent committee. It's essentially socialised healthcare but the government has very little it can do to fiddle with it. Means tories will get their greasy mitts off it and will no longer be used as a political weapon by labour. However doing that suits neither party individually, except maybe the tories.
  • McBobbin said:

    agim said:

    For me top priorities are in no particular order :
    1) defence
    2) immigration
    3) welfare/benefits


    I'm a tory voter and voted to leave the EU. It also looks like I'm in a small minority on this forum.

    I think that every party has their pros and cons. In my opinion there will never be a perfect government but have always sided more towards the tories manifesto and I can't see that changing this time round.

    Specifically, what about defence, immigration and welfare/benefits? I think all parties have policies about them. the Tories are cutting defence, talking about cutting immigration but failing, and have put further caps on benefits.
    Defence - yes have made cuts but still keeping NATO payments which is important. Something that no other party committed too

    Immigration - let's see what happens after we've left the EU

    Benefits - I'm fully behind benefits caps
  • When are the leaders of the Tory and Labour Party going to stop lying to the British people and admit that Brexit of any kind means leaving the single market?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/27/angela-merkel-attacks-british-illusion-of-keeping-benefits-of-eu

    It doesn't need to.

    Whether either party wants to 'Brexit' the EU but remain in the Single Market though is a separate issue.
  • LenGlover said:

    When are the leaders of the Tory and Labour Party going to stop lying to the British people and admit that Brexit of any kind means leaving the single market?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/27/angela-merkel-attacks-british-illusion-of-keeping-benefits-of-eu

    It doesn't need to.

    Whether either party wants to 'Brexit' the EU but remain in the Single Market though is a separate issue.
    It doesn't need to if you are Norwegian! Leavers kept quoting Norway prior to the referendum.
  • agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
  • You don't need nuclear weapons in the modern age, they're not a deterrent, just ask Ukraine I me- oh.

    See the Budapest Memorandum. One of the four signatories was a Conservative Prime Minister.

    Or you could say, "ask Spain, Italy, Australia, Brazil,Turkey, Eire etc etc".
  • We should switch over to the German system of healthcare, free at the point of service, free to homeless or disabled and just taken out of your pay check each month, regulated by an independent committee. It's essentially socialised healthcare but the government has very little it can do to fiddle with it. Means tories will get their greasy mitts off it and will no longer be used as a political weapon by labour. However doing that suits neither party individually, except maybe the tories.

    Confused? You will be when you watch the next episode of... :lol:
  • LenGlover said:

    When are the leaders of the Tory and Labour Party going to stop lying to the British people and admit that Brexit of any kind means leaving the single market?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/27/angela-merkel-attacks-british-illusion-of-keeping-benefits-of-eu

    It doesn't need to.

    Whether either party wants to 'Brexit' the EU but remain in the Single Market though is a separate issue.
    Doesn't need to stop lying?
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  • Not every tory voter is a privately educated snob with a pole stuck up their arse. Some (myself included) were and still are sick to death of the way the benefit system has been abused over the years.

    agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
    My hope is for controlled immigration and for those that come to be able to contribute and better our country. I work with a number of immigrants both EU and non EU and they are excellent tradesmen. Hardworking, knowledgeable and honest guys. They are here with their families who are also contributing to our society. I respect them and what they're doing but again there has to be a limit doesn't there? There has to be a time when we say we're full for now effectively.
    Whether that's EU or non EU I think there should be a procedure in place to know exactly who is coming into the country, their history and what they have to offer and I can only see one party making this a realisation
  • agim said:

    Not every tory voter is a privately educated snob with a pole stuck up their arse. Some (myself included) were and still are sick to death of the way the benefit system has been abused over the years.

    agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
    My hope is for controlled immigration and for those that come to be able to contribute and better our country. I work with a number of immigrants both EU and non EU and they are excellent tradesmen. Hardworking, knowledgeable and honest guys. They are here with their families who are also contributing to our society. I respect them and what they're doing but again there has to be a limit doesn't there? There has to be a time when we say we're full for now effectively.
    Whether that's EU or non EU I think there should be a procedure in place to know exactly who is coming into the country, their history and what they have to offer and I can only see one party making this a realisation
    That's fair enough, and to a certain extent I agree with that stance, but you've said you're voting Tory partly based on immigration, whilst what you want is not what the Tories have delivered. They talk about controlling immigration, but their actions are to increase non-EU immigration every year they've been in power (either alone or in coalition).

    So why would you vote for a party that has continually not only failed deliver one of your key policy desires, but have actively done the exact opposite whilst lying to you about it the whole time?
  • vffvff
    edited April 2017
    Funny picture time as opposed to discussing anything.
  • seth plum said:

    On one side a tory who wants to honour the will of the British people.

    On the other an IRA supporting communist.

    Hmmm, this election is a toughie.

    She might want to honour the will of the British people but she will fail.
    Have you heard or read anything (beyond Brexit means Brexit) that indicates these jokers have even half a clue as to what they're doing?

    If the will of the British people as framed by the referendum is anything to go by, there should be a hard Brexit today, all EU nationals should be given three months to leave the country, provision made to receive all UK expats living in the EU in three months time, all funding in both directions should stop today, a hard steel and concrete wall should be built immediately along the 400km of the Irish land border, and any trespassers should be shot on sight. We should then immediately operate under the World Trade rules.

    If you think I am being silly then:
    A) I believe there are some pro brexiters who will read my diatribe above and agree with every word.
    B) My description is more detailed than anything put out by any pro Brexit person.
    C) My description is straightforward, and you don't have to elect me on a blank cheque of raw power in order to do it.

    Brexit means Brexit which means what I have described above, so all you brexiters stop being so wishy washy and get on with it as I have described.

    On the other hand Corbyn is a man of peace and principle who doesn't want to vapourise children at the touch of a nuclear button, whilst Theresa May is clearly salivating at the prospect.

    Hmmm, this election is a toughie.
    Are you sure its a wise idea for you to vote Seth?
    You didn't understand the last vote and that was on one issue. How on earth will you cope with a general election.
  • edited April 2017

    agim said:

    Not every tory voter is a privately educated snob with a pole stuck up their arse. Some (myself included) were and still are sick to death of the way the benefit system has been abused over the years.

    agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
    My hope is for controlled immigration and for those that come to be able to contribute and better our country. I work with a number of immigrants both EU and non EU and they are excellent tradesmen. Hardworking, knowledgeable and honest guys. They are here with their families who are also contributing to our society. I respect them and what they're doing but again there has to be a limit doesn't there? There has to be a time when we say we're full for now effectively.
    Whether that's EU or non EU I think there should be a procedure in place to know exactly who is coming into the country, their history and what they have to offer and I can only see one party making this a realisation
    That's fair enough, and to a certain extent I agree with that stance, but you've said you're voting Tory partly based on immigration, whilst what you want is not what the Tories have delivered. They talk about controlling immigration, but their actions are to increase non-EU immigration every year they've been in power (either alone or in coalition).

    So why would you vote for a party that has continually not only failed deliver one of your key policy desires, but have actively done the exact opposite whilst lying to you about it the whole time?
    They lie about it. EU immigration benefits the country. The more people aquaint themselves with the facts, the less effective Tory lies will be.
  • The problems of the economy and difficulties of accessing jobs, housing or health is pinned on migrants. The real problem was not increasing resources to matching EU migrants come to work in the country. Choosing to blame migrants for economic troubles is an easy excuse & arguement to make & can appear to make sense. Trouble is that it doesn't solve the issues of poor health access, not enough houses being built, productivity, low pay or access to decent education or employment.
  • Sponsored links:


  • agim said:

    Not every tory voter is a privately educated snob with a pole stuck up their arse. Some (myself included) were and still are sick to death of the way the benefit system has been abused over the years.

    agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
    My hope is for controlled immigration and for those that come to be able to contribute and better our country. I work with a number of immigrants both EU and non EU and they are excellent tradesmen. Hardworking, knowledgeable and honest guys. They are here with their families who are also contributing to our society. I respect them and what they're doing but again there has to be a limit doesn't there? There has to be a time when we say we're full for now effectively.
    Whether that's EU or non EU I think there should be a procedure in place to know exactly who is coming into the country, their history and what they have to offer and I can only see one party making this a realisation
    That's fair enough, and to a certain extent I agree with that stance, but you've said you're voting Tory partly based on immigration, whilst what you want is not what the Tories have delivered. They talk about controlling immigration, but their actions are to increase non-EU immigration every year they've been in power (either alone or in coalition).

    So why would you vote for a party that has continually not only failed deliver one of your key policy desires, but have actively done the exact opposite whilst lying to you about it the whole time?
    From what I've read non EU immigration has been a lot higher then what it currently is. It's fluctuated over the past decade but hasn't been consistently increasing over the tories regin.
    I've said above what my key priorities are when voting and I've also said I don't think you can get a 'perfect government ' but in my opinion the only party that gets anywhere near my views are the tories. Yes they will promise things and fail to deliver but which government hasn't?
    When voting we can refer to stats, things that have happened in the past but I also personally try and judge the character of the candidate. For me neither milliband or corbyn seem to fit what I'm looking for. They seem unsure and weak, almost dithering in opinion. That is not what I want in the leader of my country.

  • Leuth said:

    agim said:

    Not every tory voter is a privately educated snob with a pole stuck up their arse. Some (myself included) were and still are sick to death of the way the benefit system has been abused over the years.

    agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
    My hope is for controlled immigration and for those that come to be able to contribute and better our country. I work with a number of immigrants both EU and non EU and they are excellent tradesmen. Hardworking, knowledgeable and honest guys. They are here with their families who are also contributing to our society. I respect them and what they're doing but again there has to be a limit doesn't there? There has to be a time when we say we're full for now effectively.
    Whether that's EU or non EU I think there should be a procedure in place to know exactly who is coming into the country, their history and what they have to offer and I can only see one party making this a realisation
    If we were full, people wouldn't be arriving to live in available housing, or taking available jobs, would they?

    Also, benefits abuse has a negligible impact on the UK economy. It suits the rich c**ts who run the media to turn society's anger on this false demon though, while they and their chums hoover up your nation's assets.
    I'm not saying we're full now I'm saying things need to be kept in order and a more thorough checks need to be made on people coming into this country and who are in our society.
    Would you leave your front door open while you was at work and not wondering who's in your house? Silly I know but same principle.

    Benefit abuse may be negligible but that's a personal preference for me.

    You seem angry with rich people
  • edited April 2017
    The Tories never deliver on their promises on immigration, it is their stock strategy to sound strong on immigration and benefits - but they don't really have proper policies on these areas when you skim the surface. They hammer the disabled and disdvantaged. look at how their benefits plan unraveled after the last election - no matter they hooked the mail and sun readers! I'm glad for you that you are happy with that - they don't do it on behalf of me. In terms of immigration from the EU, they know we would be in trouble if we didn't have people to care for us in hospitals, build our houses and pick our fruit etc...! They play to the crowd.

    If they stopped EU immigration, even after Brexit, their donors would be up in arms. Tories do not care about working people (well a small number do) but they are a party for the rich. I will never support them, and I am probably somebody who could selfishly justify doing so.
  • agim said:

    Leuth said:

    agim said:

    Not every tory voter is a privately educated snob with a pole stuck up their arse. Some (myself included) were and still are sick to death of the way the benefit system has been abused over the years.

    agim said:



    Chizz said:

    agim said:

    Saga Lout said:

    agim said:

    Have you any examples?

    My local hospital sold to Virgin Care.
    That's what happens when you have free health care, a over populated country and in huge amounts of debt
    Yet you're you going to vote - again - for a party that has failed, spectacularly, to reduce immigration over the last seven years, whilst massively increasing the UK's level of debt.

    Much like Theresa May's fiscal policy, that doesn't add up.
    The level of debt has been on the up since the last recession in 08. Nothing inspires me or makes me think voting for the labour party will change this.
    And my reason for voting 'leave' in the EU referendum was partly for controlled immigration which we will hopefully see come into place in the next few years
    We've always had control of non-EU migration, yet under the Tories, the coalition before them and the Labour government before that, non-EU immigration has continued to rise. The Tories have had all the power they need to slow or halt non-EU migration, but have continually failed to act. Why do you believe that if they win in June they will suddenly reverse this trend? All indicators are that total immigration will either continue to increase or at least stay at the same level, whether we are in the EU or not. All that will change is the sources of those immigrants.

    If you think cheap eastern European labour has a downward effect on salaries, wait until it's even cheaper immigrants from Africa and Asia.
    My hope is for controlled immigration and for those that come to be able to contribute and better our country. I work with a number of immigrants both EU and non EU and they are excellent tradesmen. Hardworking, knowledgeable and honest guys. They are here with their families who are also contributing to our society. I respect them and what they're doing but again there has to be a limit doesn't there? There has to be a time when we say we're full for now effectively.
    Whether that's EU or non EU I think there should be a procedure in place to know exactly who is coming into the country, their history and what they have to offer and I can only see one party making this a realisation
    If we were full, people wouldn't be arriving to live in available housing, or taking available jobs, would they?

    Also, benefits abuse has a negligible impact on the UK economy. It suits the rich c**ts who run the media to turn society's anger on this false demon though, while they and their chums hoover up your nation's assets.
    I'm not saying we're full now I'm saying things need to be kept in order and a more thorough checks need to be made on people coming into this country and who are in our society.
    Would you leave your front door open while you was at work and not wondering who's in your house? Silly I know but same principle.

    Benefit abuse may be negligible but that's a personal preference for me.

    You seem angry with rich people
    Regarding 'same principle', is there not a difference between one's home and the common land?

    As for rich people, I have a huge problem with exploiters of any stripe, yes. Most of the rich people I work for seem OK though.
  • May cannot be trusted with protecting the living standards of the people of this country when it comes to trade deals and discussions with Trump or the wider world. May is definitely not half as clever as she thinks she is. The risk is May and the Tories will rip up environmental, food, health and social protection to secure a trade deal at all costs.

    The temptation also will be that migrants will get blamed again if / when it all goes pear shaped.
  • I think it's worth reposting nick Cohen's fantastic article written after the previous election

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labour-left-miliband-hating-english
  • I will be voting Tories, i grew up under a single parent family with 2 brothers living in a council house in a ruff estate but my mum always had a job and worked hard as other people (neighbours/friends) around us lived on the dole each week (majority of them seemed fine to work just chose not to and have a lot of kids instead). We didn't have a lot of money but they always seemed to have more than we did (such as material things,cars etc)

    Why should i now work hard for my own family (my wife & child) for others to sit at home and i pay for them via my NI/Taxes?!

    I can't say Theresa May fills me with confidence but i agree with their policies immigration, trident, benefit caps etc and at least they try to cut these on the face of things anyway

    I agree that immigration is good for our economy but i want to stop the people coming to the UK that cheat benefits to build their homes in eastern Europe & people that hate the UK but are happy to be put up in a lush council house and live on benefits whilst preaching hate of the way we live (ie hate preachers "Anjem Choudary" etc) why do we still pay for these peoples families to live in they UK they should be deport? And i cant see Corbyn kicking these people out of the country! I doubt the Tories will either but i will take my chances


    As for Brexit people want to know what is happening i would imagine Theresa May/David Davis know what they want to do but will not spill the beans until they know how the EU will be negotiating with us. I certainly agree that we shouldn't commit to the current EU nationals living here are fine to stay until we know about our current Ex-pats and their situation within the EU as it will just weaken our position!


    (if anyone cares my mum managed to save and buy her own home on her own, I am 24yrs old i own my own house have a nice car and have a good job with great prospects as i was taught to work hard to get what you want in life)
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!