More I think about it I feel like this is a bit unfair on May.
An idiot who isn't funny is out of her control
The background wasn't built by her...
She has a cold... Have people here never had a cold? I seem to remember another politician blaming their diabetes for bad performances... And criticising her performance wasn't allowed after that point. She was ill...
Plenty of other reasons to criticise her but j don't really think yesterday has done her much damage in most people's eyes and many on here would have been criticising her regardless.
Do you mean Boris or Lee Nelson / Simon Brodkin? ;-)
Boris should be under her control, in that she could sack him. That would be a strong and reasonably stable course of action.
The whole conference has been utter rubbish and symptomatic of all the problems the Conservative party currently have.
Let's take one example: the venue. If I'd been asked to scope out a location for a political party conference, I'd have taken one look at that shithole and said no thanks, let's look elsewhere. What the feck was that? Some disused railway train maintenance shed or something? It was a bland and uninspiring venue: cold, vast, empty, soul-destroying. It looked so awful on TV, like some place chosen because it was cheap. It was almost inevitable that everything that followed would go pear-shaped. Presumably there is presently no one with a brain in the Tory Central Office?
I don't think she can sack him because she is in a weak position. He is showing what a disloyal proverbial he is. He really is a dishonest, selfish disgusting individual and more and more people are waking up to that fact.
I don't think she can sack him because she is in a weak position. He is showing what a disloyal proverbial he is. He really is a dishonest, selfish disgusting individual and more and more people are waking up to that fact.
Or could you not argue that the continual need to sack people you've appointed shows a weak leadership/poor decision maker? Need we mention RD/KM and their appointments and sackings...... a certain Labour leader is quite good at sacking people, is that the sackeds fault or the person who appointed them?
She gave Boris a place on her cabinet to try to keep him in check. If she was in a stronger position she would sack him and/or wouldn't have given him the job in the first place. That isn't party political, just obvious to Tories and Labour supporters alike. Do you seriously not get that?
More I think about it I feel like this is a bit unfair on May.
An idiot who isn't funny is out of her control
The background wasn't built by her...
She has a cold... Have people here never had a cold? I seem to remember another politician blaming their diabetes for bad performances... And criticising her performance wasn't allowed after that point. She was ill...
Plenty of other reasons to criticise her but j don't really think yesterday has done her much damage in most people's eyes and many on here would have been criticising her regardless.
The trouble is there was never going to be a focus on the details of the speech once other stuff went wrong - that would be the same for all politicians.
All the speech showed is politics is moving back to the centre after a long time moving to the right.
As long as I can remember Labour and the Tories have taken it in turns to govern - this has been going on since 1945. A party might get two or three terms in office before the other lot get voted in.
May was on a hiding to nothing after Cameron's referendum gamble failed - at least she's stuck around to try and sort things out unlike Dave.
She gave Boris a place on her cabinet to try to keep him in check. If she was in a stronger position she would sack him and/or wouldn't have given him the job in the first place. That isn't party political, just obvious to Tories and Labour supporters alike. Do you seriously not get that?
Crikey calm down @MuttleyCAFC - I said " the continual need to sack people you've appointed shows a weak leadership/poor decision maker" whether you then go on to sack them or not for whatever reasons. We're agreeing for Christ sake!
My additional point was that if there is a need to sack people you have to eventually ask questions about the hirer's ability, whether in this instance (political) is a labour leader or a conservative leader.
I used the example of KM/RD, not saying I agreed with any/many of their managerial and other appointments in the first place but the fact they needed to sack so many, to me, indicates they were/are poor leaders/managers - they employed them.
If I got through staff as quick as Corbyn, RD/KM etc etc did, my boss would be having words about my hiring ability in the first place. The fact I can sack them makes me in a strong position btu doesn't mean my leadership ability is any good.
Corbyn's ability to sack people at will does within his party indeed show he is in a strong position compared to May in hers, but IMHO it also makes him a crap leader.
So, fecking precious! Obviously Ms Welch has about as much of a clue as to how her business works as the Tories have on running a conference. Sorry, Florry but your approval is neither here nor there. The user just applies for a PPL licence. It's done on-line and is easy peasy. (Hopefully - or not depending on your point of view - the Tories managed to remember to get one!) I think I'll refrain from buying her music in the future. x
Florence you daft mare, you're only covering a song that wasn't yours in the first place
Anyway, what was awful, and I don't even know why it got a laugh was her (may, not florence), thinking on her feet when she said "I'd like to give Jeremy Corbyn a p45" What does that even mean? I appreciate she's ill and had been disrupted but, it was like one of those bad jokes people try to respond with in a cussing match with your mates and the room should've fell silent
In a factual sense it was all pretty meaningless. Not her fault she had a cough. Not her fault Lee Nelson bombed her. Not her fault the letters fell off.
Why is it then important and provoking so much discussion ? It's because the electorate look for slick professionalism. It inspires confidence. It's why the sound bite is so important. "strong and stable" say it often enough and people might even believe it.
What we witnessed yesterday did not scream slick professionalism. It looked a mess and will stick in people's minds as a mess.
David Cameron was often accused of too much stage managing of his speeches. What Cameron acheived though was he looked like a statesman. It was orchestrated to the last degree.
May was finished before yesterday. What we saw only weakened any support she had left.
I'm perfectly calm, just can believe the rubbish you constantly come out with. And why you seem to target me with it
Hardly, I've replied and engaged with loads of different posters on this thread and many others. I know you don't like anyone who has an opposing view to yours as anyone who does must be talking rubbish or hasn't seen the light yet or been on your journey of enlightenment but you seem not to like it even if I agree with you
The coverage has featured the P45 moment, the cough and letters falling off the strap line. In the medium term the Brexit line is failing (no progress according to EU27), and today the US complain about a WTO carve up. She's adopting new labour policies like regulating gas prices and then attacking Corbyn as pro Venezuela when an example of his policy is to nationalise the railways.
The only question is how long she lasts after this conference and when the Tories start a civil war over Brexit. And will they implode which in turn leads to an election?
Why would they do that? GDP growth or lack thereof is threatening Hammond's budget. Real cuts in expected growth means less tax receipts and cuts in expenditure. Unless those in favour of a soft Brexit stand up and provide certainty...
And it's clear BoJo and Mogg are ready to pick them off as quickly as you can say "clear the bodies off the beach"
Even before yesterday, political commentators noted the lack of energy. As posted before, the conference season gave each party a chance to shape their proposition to the electorate. We have seen a clear vision from Labour but this week has been a missed opportunity for the Tories.
The opinion polls and quarterly stats plus the EU27 statements will shape things from here. And Tory polling is not going to go up after this shambles. They had a few days of media coverage and the only message coming out is more of the same.
BoJo and Moggy will sort things out as they are a couple of jolly good chaps and everything will be spiffing. BoJo can make up a few more stories about the EU and insult foreigners while Moggy can rock a double breasted suit.
I would also hope there was a role for Moggy's nanny.
Lots of jolly japes ahead with these two cheeky rascals who epitomize all that's best about the UK. Theresa is just the wrong sort.
The great thing about BoJo is he won't get bogged down in detail.
What seems to be playing out is that opponents are rightly not making anything of the gaffs. Of course the media are going to report them, but I would rather they scrutinise the policies - positive steals from labour but disapointing in terms of their likely scale and effectiveness.
The people who seem to be using the issues against her are May's enemies within her own party. We may have a better idea who they are in the next week or so.
People used to refer to May as a zombie PM when she lost her majority at the election but that's no longer accurate. Zombies at least have some life in them.
This was the equivalent of one of those farcical courts where they put a corpse on trial. It's wheeled out to be condemned and cannot defend itself because it's already gone.
She won't last til 2022. In fact if she is still the leader by the end of the month then someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly.
I think it is in the Tories interest to keep her as leader for a year or two. But they have to keep the agitators quiet which clearly is not going to be easy. The thing is, if Boris makes a move now the party will factionalise. But he probably thinks that now is the best chance for his destiny. Farage says they need a Brexiter as leader, but I think that is the last thing they need for their current longetivity of power. They need somebody who can hold both sides of teh party together.
It that sense, May is currently the best option for her party, but unfortunately this couldn't be happening at a worse time for the country. That is why it makes sense to have a transition period of some years after Brexit. There is no way it will end well otherwise. We could have an election at anytime between now and the Brexit date for instance - that in itself is crazy.
The move has started. This is what Boris wants as the longer May goes on, the more likely the Tories will find an alternative to him. Whilst he has a lot of support within the party, he also has enemies. His recent behaviour has probably added to that list. Of course if he can guarantee victory, everybody will fall in behind him, but a lot of Tories have severe doubts about that.
As I said yesterday - this is his best time, He already thought his time had come, but Gove stabbed him in the back. He really is a selfish man and everything is about him. Many people in his own party believe he only supported Brexit because he saw that as his best route to No. 10. It is Tories who believe this!!!!
Anyway, the fact that the rebellion only has 30 signatures when they need 48 suggests it is not guaranteed to succeed. They are stabbing another couple of daggers in May's back with a view to push her over the edge of the cliff she is already close to. They hope that it will push some reluctant MPs to say enough is enough.
The sensible strategic view within the party accepts that May will not be leading the Tories into the next election. But they realise they need time to identify who will be best placed to take her over. If Ruth Davidson decided she would be willing to stand when May stands down, which could be the case in a year or two, she could be slotted into parliament via a bi-election and Boris knows she would beat him. Another MP may impress and strengthen their position. As this is all about him, he knows he has to act now.
As an opponent of this government, I am not sad about it, but I fail to see how anybody can warm to this man. If he gained power, he would have a sizeable number of enemies in his own party.
Comments
Boris should be under her control, in that she could sack him. That would be a strong and reasonably stable course of action.
Let's take one example: the venue. If I'd been asked to scope out a location for a political party conference, I'd have taken one look at that shithole and said no thanks, let's look elsewhere. What the feck was that? Some disused railway train maintenance shed or something? It was a bland and uninspiring venue: cold, vast, empty, soul-destroying. It looked so awful on TV, like some place chosen because it was cheap. It was almost inevitable that everything that followed would go pear-shaped. Presumably there is presently no one with a brain in the Tory Central Office?
Agree Boris is a knob though!
All the speech showed is politics is moving back to the centre after a long time moving to the right.
As long as I can remember Labour and the Tories have taken it in turns to govern - this has been going on since 1945. A party might get two or three terms in office before the other lot get voted in.
May was on a hiding to nothing after Cameron's referendum gamble failed - at least she's stuck around to try and sort things out unlike Dave.
My additional point was that if there is a need to sack people you have to eventually ask questions about the hirer's ability, whether in this instance (political) is a labour leader or a conservative leader.
I used the example of KM/RD, not saying I agreed with any/many of their managerial and other appointments in the first place but the fact they needed to sack so many, to me, indicates they were/are poor leaders/managers - they employed them.
If I got through staff as quick as Corbyn, RD/KM etc etc did, my boss would be having words about my hiring ability in the first place. The fact I can sack them makes me in a strong position btu doesn't mean my leadership ability is any good.
Corbyn's ability to sack people at will does within his party indeed show he is in a strong position compared to May in hers, but IMHO it also makes him a crap leader.
B I N
A C UNT
THAT RKS
EVERYONE.
Anyway, what was awful, and I don't even know why it got a laugh was her (may, not florence), thinking on her feet when she said "I'd like to give Jeremy Corbyn a p45" What does that even mean? I appreciate she's ill and had been disrupted but, it was like one of those bad jokes people try to respond with in a cussing match with your mates and the room should've fell silent
Why is it then important and provoking so much discussion ? It's because the electorate look for slick professionalism. It inspires confidence. It's why the sound bite is so important. "strong and stable" say it often enough and people might even believe it.
What we witnessed yesterday did not scream slick professionalism. It looked a mess and will stick in people's minds as a mess.
David Cameron was often accused of too much stage managing of his speeches. What Cameron acheived though was he looked like a statesman. It was orchestrated to the last degree.
May was finished before yesterday. What we saw only weakened any support she had left.
The only question is how long she lasts after this conference and when the Tories start a civil war over Brexit. And will they implode which in turn leads to an election?
Why would they do that? GDP growth or lack thereof is threatening Hammond's budget. Real cuts in expected growth means less tax receipts and cuts in expenditure. Unless those in favour of a soft Brexit stand up and provide certainty...
And it's clear BoJo and Mogg are ready to pick them off as quickly as you can say "clear the bodies off the beach"
Even before yesterday, political commentators noted the lack of energy. As posted before, the conference season gave each party a chance to shape their proposition to the electorate. We have seen a clear vision from Labour but this week has been a missed opportunity for the Tories.
The opinion polls and quarterly stats plus the EU27 statements will shape things from here. And Tory polling is not going to go up after this shambles. They had a few days of media coverage and the only message coming out is more of the same.
I would also hope there was a role for Moggy's nanny.
Lots of jolly japes ahead with these two cheeky rascals who epitomize all that's best about the UK. Theresa is just the wrong sort.
The great thing about BoJo is he won't get bogged down in detail.
The people who seem to be using the issues against her are May's enemies within her own party. We may have a better idea who they are in the next week or so.
This was the equivalent of one of those farcical courts where they put a corpse on trial. It's wheeled out to be condemned and cannot defend itself because it's already gone.
She won't last til 2022. In fact if she is still the leader by the end of the month then someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly.
It that sense, May is currently the best option for her party, but unfortunately this couldn't be happening at a worse time for the country. That is why it makes sense to have a transition period of some years after Brexit. There is no way it will end well otherwise. We could have an election at anytime between now and the Brexit date for instance - that in itself is crazy.
As I said yesterday - this is his best time, He already thought his time had come, but Gove stabbed him in the back. He really is a selfish man and everything is about him. Many people in his own party believe he only supported Brexit because he saw that as his best route to No. 10. It is Tories who believe this!!!!
Anyway, the fact that the rebellion only has 30 signatures when they need 48 suggests it is not guaranteed to succeed. They are stabbing another couple of daggers in May's back with a view to push her over the edge of the cliff she is already close to. They hope that it will push some reluctant MPs to say enough is enough.
The sensible strategic view within the party accepts that May will not be leading the Tories into the next election. But they realise they need time to identify who will be best placed to take her over. If Ruth Davidson decided she would be willing to stand when May stands down, which could be the case in a year or two, she could be slotted into parliament via a bi-election and Boris knows she would beat him. Another MP may impress and strengthen their position. As this is all about him, he knows he has to act now.
As an opponent of this government, I am not sad about it, but I fail to see how anybody can warm to this man. If he gained power, he would have a sizeable number of enemies in his own party.