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How do the Tories need to change?

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    I think it is a fair point - there will be many aspects of religions that we don't understand and it is enough to respect that these things are important to some people. If there was an issue with women terrorists concealing themselves to avoid detection, there would of course need to be a debate - but it is ridiculous to invent a problem which isn't there. It ultimately comes done to respect.

    i went into a foreign exchange place on friday last week and was told to remove my hat for security reasons, you know that when these wearers of religous garments travel then what happens? they have to be taken off to a secure point so the security agent can see it - costing time and holding people up.

    headscarves are a part of the religion if your an orthodox follower and i respect that - but these full face covers are a personal choice and one that i dont think should be accepted in the uk - if you do want to wear them move to a more liberal country like germany or france - actually dont as they are already banned there.

    they are intimidating i think, no different to a gang of kids with scarves up round there faces.

    its about time we worried about the majority rather than the minority - many muslims have stated that these rags are ridiculous.
    Johnson doesn't argue for a ban though, of course.

    As for the bit in bold, i've travelled extensively in the middle east and experienced no such hold ups, there are many hold ups travelling in the middle east because of culture, this is absolutely not one of them, because, as you say they have to go off to another point in the airport. Their faces are seen by an agent and they can be passed for travel or immigration. When not in use for this reason, these areas can be used for other checks.

    Personally, i don't like the niqab or the burka, i'd never force my wife to do anything, but then i'd take exception to a public figure referring to my wife with any culturally stereotypical epithet, such as letterbox.The claim that this is some sort of joke, when it is a lazy, rude and insensitive term that has been around for a long time is disingenuous. He should apologise for being a crass ignoramus and we should all move on. Boris deserves to be consigned to the dustbin of history, but he won't be because he'll keep spouting nonsense that even he doesn't believe to keep his name on the record.
    I’m talking about travelling in the UK you know the country I live in - I would expect the Middle East to be able to deal with such.
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    I think it is a fair point - there will be many aspects of religions that we don't understand and it is enough to respect that these things are important to some people. If there was an issue with women terrorists concealing themselves to avoid detection, there would of course need to be a debate - but it is ridiculous to invent a problem which isn't there. It ultimately comes done to respect.

    i went into a foreign exchange place on friday last week and was told to remove my hat for security reasons, you know that when these wearers of religous garments travel then what happens? they have to be taken off to a secure point so the security agent can see it - costing time and holding people up.

    headscarves are a part of the religion if your an orthodox follower and i respect that - but these full face covers are a personal choice and one that i dont think should be accepted in the uk - if you do want to wear them move to a more liberal country like germany or france - actually dont as they are already banned there.

    they are intimidating i think, no different to a gang of kids with scarves up round there faces.

    its about time we worried about the majority rather than the minority - many muslims have stated that these rags are ridiculous.
    Johnson doesn't argue for a ban though, of course.

    As for the bit in bold, i've travelled extensively in the middle east and experienced no such hold ups, there are many hold ups travelling in the middle east because of culture, this is absolutely not one of them, because, as you say they have to go off to another point in the airport. Their faces are seen by an agent and they can be passed for travel or immigration. When not in use for this reason, these areas can be used for other checks.

    Personally, i don't like the niqab or the burka, i'd never force my wife to do anything, but then i'd take exception to a public figure referring to my wife with any culturally stereotypical epithet, such as letterbox.The claim that this is some sort of joke, when it is a lazy, rude and insensitive term that has been around for a long time is disingenuous. He should apologise for being a crass ignoramus and we should all move on. Boris deserves to be consigned to the dustbin of history, but he won't be because he'll keep spouting nonsense that even he doesn't believe to keep his name on the record.
    I’m talking about travelling in the UK you know the country I live in - I would expect the Middle East to be able to deal with such.
    I have to travel from the UK to the middle East funnily enough, no problems at Heathrow or Gatwick either. Same response from security and border agents at Heathrow. We don't have a ban, so they mitigate the issue. At airports they should ban travelling with kids, they hold lines up far worse than anyone in a burka or niqab, oh and business men with laptops, iPads, kindles and liquids.
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    I think Boris should be flogged through the streets and put in prison for life - for hurting peoples feelings and offending people that the issue does not affect.
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    Any politician who comments on clothing ordinary people wear is a piece of shit, specifically commenting and mocking clothes women choose to wear.

    There is a debate to be had about the burka, mocking people and calling them letter boxes is not it.

    "yeah but what about Isreal?"

    Oh, sorry wrong party with racists in it leadership
    but there are rich muslims around so that must mean that they're controlling the narrative on this. This definitely has the "hand of saud" over it.
    it's a SMEAR (TM)

    The similarities in how Johnson and Corbyn are being defended and the racism used to attack those speaking out are scary.
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    I have read that Boris becoming Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs was just another in a very long line of silly blunders.

    May was apparently going through a list of names of prospective cabinet members and wrote F Off beside Boris Johnson's name. A junior Cabinet Office civil servant misinterpreted what that meant.

    The rest is history.
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    I think Boris should be flogged through the streets and put in prison for life - for hurting peoples feelings and offending people that the issue does not affect.

    Funny you should mention imprisonment.
    Boris walked away from his job without resolving the imprisonment of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe whose plight he worsened.
    It isn't only feelings he hurts.

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    I think Boris should be flogged through the streets and put in prison for life - for hurting peoples feelings and offending people that the issue does not affect.

    It’s people like you that are the target audience Boris wants to impress. Nothing more.

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    edited August 2018

    I think Boris should be flogged through the streets and put in prison for life - for hurting peoples feelings and offending people that the issue does not affect.

    It’s people like you that are the target audience Boris wants to impress. Nothing more.

    So even though you don’t know me - it’s people like me, based on your opinions of some postings on an Internet forum, cheers treacle

    As Rowan Atkinson says all religious jokes offend - so what’s the point in apologising for them.
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    The pseudo familiarity (if that’s the right term) gets on my tits. It’s Johnson or Boris Johnson. Please let’s leave out the Boris, Bojo stuff. He’s nobody here’s mate. :smile:
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    edited August 2018
    If there was a proven security issue it would be a completely different matter - respecting cultures/religions has to have limits when security is concerned. What concerns me about some people in this country, is they don't try to see the bigger picture. You can feed them anything - all muslims are terrorists, women who cover their faces are bank robbers etc... and they lap it up and the foam starts dripping from their mouths about issues that don't affect or impact on them in the slightest.

    Then you get lazy stereo types like some people are posting on here, like they know the reasons some muslim women cover their faces is so they don't have to put on make up. They post it on here like it is fact, but if they think that is the reason women make that choice they are illustrating the point.

    Why can't we just adopt a standpoint where if people are not bothering, threatening or affecting our way of life, we let them live their chosen way of life? You look back through history, look how people seem so bothered what consenting gay people get up to. It is none of my business, the same as what heterosexual people get up to, why should it even be an issue? It wasn't so long ago that people in same sex relationships were imprisoned in this country!

    We do have to be sensitive to people when we use our language. Had Boris made the comments to some like minded mates, jokingly in a pub - I would have less of a problem with it. It isn't anything to be proud of, but its what people do. The problem is, he said them so that muslim people could read them. He is truly a vile man. How he gets a free pass for being a self effacing oaf is incredible. Sadly for him, I think more and more people are intelligent enough to see through him. Intelligence will always be the enemy of Boris. Not referring to him, but in those who potentially might support him.
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    Chaz Hill said:

    The pseudo familiarity (if that’s the right term) gets on my tits. It’s Johnson or Boris Johnson. Please let’s leave out the Boris, Bojo stuff. He’s nobody here’s mate. :smile:

    Too true Chazza.
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    I think Boris should be flogged through the streets and put in prison for life - for hurting peoples feelings and offending people that the issue does not affect.

    It’s people like you that are the target audience Boris wants to impress. Nothing more.

    So even though you don’t know me - it’s people like me, based on your opinions of some postings on an Internet forum, cheers treacle

    As Rowan Atkinson says all religious jokes offend - so what’s the point in apologising for them.
    Apologies if you dont want to come across as an apologist for what Boris said but your post to me at least makes it look that way.



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    If there was a proven security issue it would be a completely different matter - respecting cultures/religions has to have limits when security is concerned. What concerns me about some people in this country, is they don't try to see the bigger picture. You can feed them anything - all muslims are terrorists, women who cover their faces are bank robbers etc... and they lap it up and the foam starts dripping from their mouths about issues that don't affect or impact on them in the slightest.

    Then you get lazy stereo types like some people are posting on here, like they know the reasons some muslim women cover their faces is so they don't have to put on make up. They post it on here like it is fact, but if they think that is the reason women make that choice they are illustrating the point.

    Why can't we just adopt a standpoint where if people are not bothering, threatening or affecting our way of life, we let them live their chosen way of life? You look back through history, look how people seem so bothered what consenting gay people get up to. It is none of my business, the same as what heterosexual people get up to, why should it even be an issue? It wasn't so long ago that people in same sex relationships were imprisoned in this country!

    We do have to be sensitive to people when we use our language. Had Boris made the comments to some like minded mates, jokingly in a pub - I would have less of a problem with it. It isn't anything to be proud of, but its what people do. The problem is, he said them so that muslim people could read them. He is truly a vile man. How he gets a free pass for being a self effacing oaf is incredible. Sadly for him, I think more and more people are intelligent enough to see through him. Intelligence will always be the enemy of Boris. Not referring to him, but in those who potentially might support him.

    stop trying to stop legitimate criticism of islam. Smear after smear.
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    Labour fall further behind

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-take-four-point-poll-lead-over-labour-p5gnfxwt0

    Despite an absolute shambles of a government.
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    I think Boris should be flogged through the streets and put in prison for life - for hurting peoples feelings and offending people that the issue does not affect.

    It’s people like you that are the target audience Boris wants to impress. Nothing more.

    So even though you don’t know me - it’s people like me, based on your opinions of some postings on an Internet forum, cheers treacle

    As Rowan Atkinson says all religious jokes offend - so what’s the point in apologising for them.
    He's a politician, not a comedian.
    Hmmm, I'm not so sure.
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    Labour fall further behind

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-take-four-point-poll-lead-over-labour-p5gnfxwt0

    Despite an absolute shambles of a government.

    YouGov poll for The Times. Hmmm.

    Hello. Is that YouGov ? Times here. Could you have a quick ring around a representative cross section of voters in let’s say Buckingham and let us know what it’s looking like out there.

    got any other polls?
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    edited August 2018

    Labour fall further behind

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-take-four-point-poll-lead-over-labour-p5gnfxwt0

    Despite an absolute shambles of a government.

    YouGov poll for The Times. Hmmm.

    Hello. Is that YouGov ? Times here. Could you have a quick ring around a representative cross section of voters in let’s say Buckingham and let us know what it’s looking like out there.

    got any other polls?
    Isn't this why some people voted for Brexit? Too many.
    so that's why people voted to leave the EU, nothing to do with custom unions, free movement etc. It was those dastardly polls!

    EDIT: Think i just got the joke. Whoosh for me.
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    Any politician who comments on clothing ordinary people wear is a piece of shit, specifically commenting and mocking clothes women choose to wear.

    There is a debate to be had about the burka, mocking people and calling them letter boxes is not it.

    "yeah but what about Isreal?"

    Oh, sorry wrong party with racists in it leadership
    but there are rich muslims around so that must mean that they're controlling the narrative on this. This definitely has the "hand of saud" over it.
    it's a SMEAR (TM)

    The similarities in how Johnson and Corbyn are being defended and the racism used to attack those speaking out are scary.
    Could you elaborate on that as I don't see it.
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    Any politician who comments on clothing ordinary people wear is a piece of shit, specifically commenting and mocking clothes women choose to wear.

    There is a debate to be had about the burka, mocking people and calling them letter boxes is not it.

    "yeah but what about Isreal?"

    Oh, sorry wrong party with racists in it leadership
    but there are rich muslims around so that must mean that they're controlling the narrative on this. This definitely has the "hand of saud" over it.
    it's a SMEAR (TM)

    The similarities in how Johnson and Corbyn are being defended and the racism used to attack those speaking out are scary.
    Could you elaborate on that as I don't see it.
    Johnson defenders: you’re stifling legitimate criticism of Islam

    Corbyn/labour defenders: you’re stifling legitimate criticism of Israel.

    Both are downplaying and so encouraging racism.
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    Johnson defenders: it’s not anti Islam cos look at all these Muslims that say a burka isn’t required

    Labour anti semitism defenders: it’s not anti Semitic to say you’re anti zionist, look at all these Jews that say Zionism isn’t a requirement for their faith
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    Johnson defenders: it’s not anti Islam cos look at all these Muslims that say a burka isn’t required

    Labour anti semitism defenders: it’s not anti Semitic to say you’re anti zionist, look at all these Jews that say Zionism isn’t a requirement for their faith

    bojo's filth certainly isn't criticism of Islam, it's flat out bullying of women for what they wear, it's egregious because we all know full well which women he's bullying and why.
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    shine166 said:

    don't see much wrong with what boris said - as many islam followers have stated including imans it has no religous meaning and i find it intimidating and offensive, a woman on itv last night who wears the niqab - which is the "letterbox" where as a burqa is a veil with a mesh like viewing part - stating that you people don't need to understand it you just need to respect it, what an arrogant individual.

    That's arrogant ? How about people saying it should be banned as it's forced on women.... and women that say they wear it by choice are lieing

    I've read that in the white British media... to me that's arrogant
    I have not said it should be banned because it’s forced on women - it should be banned because it covers a whole face and doesn’t have a place in modern society.

    What’s white British media?
    Arrogance is stating that this, that or any other apparel "...doesn’t have a place in modern society..."
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    Some young Tory voters protesting about women wearing burkas:




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