Daily Mail doing their bit to aid investigative journalism by finding out the resident whose faulty fridge it was. Aided by some irrelevant pictures of him enjoying a pint......
Won't be long until they start tying the whole thing back to immigration and if we had less of em coming here, we wouldn't need so many high rises to house em
Looking at it another way, if I'd just lost my home and all my possessions the last person I'd want to meet is a politician.
You are allowed to have a choice, Mick - they're not. It's part of their territory.
Yes, it would/will cost a lot to put right but taking no action also comes at a considerable cost, not to mention the gambling with peoples' lives, another throw of Fate's dice. By the time everything is done and accounted for, what will Grenfell Tower cost - well beyond £100 million I'm guessing.
I think it is outrageous that given the disaster that a member of the public is shown in this way because he bought an appliance that was possibly faulty - we don't know - it could have been a power surge. Some action should be taken against the Mail for this.
Grief will, and is turning to due to the real or perceived lack of official support from the authorities.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
There's something about this whole tragedy that has made me remember Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. Another time when the poor were badly let down by the authorities both before and after the event.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
Reducing the national speed limit to 30mph and requiring all vehicle occupants to wear helmets would reduce road fatalities to near zero.
Should we fund that too or would it fail a cost benefit analysis?
What exactly do you mean ?
If our goal is reducing non natural death risk to near zero then presumably as well as sprinkler systems in every tower block (despite virtually no similar incidents before), we should also spend money on things like this.
After say 7/7 there was no reasonable attempt to add security screeners at every station.
This whole tragedy is very political, though I don't think it is about party point-scoring, it is about how we behave as a society. I think this sort of thing has been going on too long under both main parties. I'm waiting for someone to pop up with a joke about "elf n safety" and how regulation is a bad thing and stifles enterprise.
For all those saying it's terrible that the council went for the cheapest contractor - if they hadn't, the Taxpayers Alliance and press would have been on at them for being wasteful. The concerns of the residents could be ignored, but the concerns of the media rarely are. The block will probably be demolished - and the survivors told they have to move to Luton or Grimsby or Coventry because people earning what they earn can't afford to live in the impoverished pocket of the richest borough in England. People will agree, after all, they couldn't afford to live there either.
Our priorities as a country are all "the devil take the hindmost", even if we sympathise, we are thankful it is not us.
The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea apparently has the most empty properties in the UK. More empty homes than some dismal northern town with no jobs since the mills and mines all shut down.
We as a country are "intensely relaxed" about the extremely rich and how our whole city is skewed to their priorities. Major developments are meant to either have a social housing element to them or pay something towards them. Westminster council lets most developers off with a fraction of what they should pay because they don't really want poor people living there. I'd be surprised if K&C doesn't as well.
I live in Lewisham, the centre of which is now dominated by high rise towers. They all have cladding and my suspicion is that in 10 years time they will all look terrible. They are very close together and it is not a nice development. Lots of them appear to be empty, which is just as well as no additional schools or doctors surgeries were built to accommodate them. As most of them were aimed at the wealthy, I can only assume they were built to a better standard, but who knows?
I'm very angry about this. At heart, politics is about how we allocate resources as a society. It gets expressed in ways that are often tribal and point-scoring and I can understand people feeling uncomfortable about that. But to me, the questions that flow from this awful tragedy are: why did it happen? how can we stop it happening again? what's stopping us? and only a very last "who's to blame?" - because that last question will focus on someone working for the TMO or the contractor, and leave the structures that enabled them intact.
Some really good points in there and I'd add that this sort of awful, unplanned for event, even if on a scale rarely seen before, is precisely why local authorities run with a certain amount in reserve. Reserves that the likes of Eric Pickles and the Daily Mail have insisted councils spend on revenue exenditure rather than just use the interest gained through its investment.
I don't think the Mail should publish the poor chaps photo & details, but they have praised him.
"Mr Kebede, pictured, banged on his neighbour's door, potentially saving hundreds of lives – after flames took in the kitchen of his fourth floor flat."
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
Again, Read the link above new york - can you spot the similarities. There are recomendations dating from 2013 - 4 years after investigation of the causes which reccomends sprinklers.
I don't think the Mail should publish the poor chaps photo & details, but they have praised him.
"Mr Kebede, pictured, banged on his neighbour's door, potentially saving hundreds of lives – after flames took in the kitchen of his fourth floor flat."
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
Well the coroner at the inquest after the fire at Luckenel (sp) House said that sprinklers should be fitted in all tower blocks. I'll take a wild guess here and say I suspect that the reason that this advice was not taken was solely down to the need to spend money.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
I agree. Some people haven't even been found let alone laid to rest. Yet we have some politicians trying to score cheap points and armchair "experts" deciding the how's and why's. There's very little respect in society anymore, including the media and online. RIP all the victims.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
Again, Read the link above new york - can you spot the similarities. There are recomendations dating from 2013 - 4 years after investigation of the causes which reccomends sprinklers.
I haven't read it - I am not being deliberately argumentative but basic economics is concerned with allocating scarce resources which is where my cost benefit angle comes in.
If the study concluded that installing sprinklers was worthwhile on this basis and it wasn't done then yes I agree it's scandalous.
Reducing the national speed limit to 30mph and requiring all vehicle occupants to wear helmets would reduce road fatalities to near zero.
Should we fund that too or would it fail a cost benefit analysis?
What exactly do you mean ?
If our goal is reducing non natural death risk to near zero then presumably as well as sprinkler systems in every tower block (despite virtually no similar incidents before), we should also spend money on things like this.
After say 7/7 there was no reasonable attempt to add security screeners at every station.
Reducing the national speed limit to 30mph and requiring all vehicle occupants to wear helmets would reduce road fatalities to near zero.
Should we fund that too or would it fail a cost benefit analysis?
What exactly do you mean ?
If our goal is reducing non natural death risk to near zero then presumably as well as sprinkler systems in every tower block (despite virtually no similar incidents before), we should also spend money on things like this.
After say 7/7 there was no reasonable attempt to add security screeners at every station.
Reducing the national speed limit to 30mph and requiring all vehicle occupants to wear helmets would reduce road fatalities to near zero.
Should we fund that too or would it fail a cost benefit analysis?
What exactly do you mean ?
If our goal is reducing non natural death risk to near zero then presumably as well as sprinkler systems in every tower block (despite virtually no similar incidents before), we should also spend money on things like this.
After say 7/7 there was no reasonable attempt to add security screeners at every station.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
I agree. Some people haven't even been found let alone laid to rest. Yet we have some politicians trying to score cheap points and armchair "experts" deciding the how's and why's. There's very little respect in society anymore, including the media and online. RIP all the victims.
I take it you dont live in a high rise block - I don't suppose the fears of those people have even crossed your mind. You have insulted a lot of people with one ignorant statement there!
And the pleas of the community and families are demanding action now- and we do the same out of brotherhood and respect for them.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
I don't know about sprinklers but austerity has certainly had a major effect on the Housing Associations and Councils I've worked in since the crash. And not in a good way.
Grief will, and is turning to due to the real or perceived lack of official support from the authorities.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is not the U.K.plc finest hour.
With regard to your comment re:absence of coordinated assistance I cannot speak for all other authorities but at least two of my certain knowledge have cut back on staff in emergency planning departments. I would expect that's a very common response when presented with making savings i.e. councils will cut the posts that are least likely to cause local objections and adverse media attention.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
I agree. Some people haven't even been found let alone laid to rest. Yet we have some politicians trying to score cheap points and armchair "experts" deciding the how's and why's. There's very little respect in society anymore, including the media and online. RIP all the victims.
I take it you dont live in a high rise block - I don't suppose the fears of those people have even crossed your mind. You have insulted a lot of people with one ignorant statement there!
And the pleas of the community and families are demanding action now- and we do the same out of brotherhood and respect for them.
Sorry sir. I takenit you're the CL fire expert then.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
I agree. Some people haven't even been found let alone laid to rest. Yet we have some politicians trying to score cheap points and armchair "experts" deciding the how's and why's. There's very little respect in society anymore, including the media and online. RIP all the victims.
I take it you dont live in a high rise block - I don't suppose the fears of those people have even crossed your mind. You have insulted a lot of people with one ignorant statement there!
And the pleas of the community and families are demanding action now- and we do the same out of brotherhood and respect for them.
How dare you say the fears of those people haven't crossed my mind. How do you conclude that exactly ?
Comments
http://trib.al/y2NzNHk
Won't be long until they start tying the whole thing back to immigration and if we had less of em coming here, we wouldn't need so many high rises to house em
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606078/Man-faulty-fridge-started-Grenfell-Tower-inferno.html
Should we fund that too or would it fail a cost benefit analysis?
That publication is scum
Yes, it would/will cost a lot to put right but taking no action also comes at a considerable cost, not to mention the gambling with peoples' lives, another throw of Fate's dice. By the time everything is done and accounted for, what will Grenfell Tower cost - well beyond £100 million I'm guessing.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is not the U.K.plc finest hour.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and
I wouldn't shed too many tears if the offices of that rag caught fire.
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/lakanal-house-the-verdict/6526499.article#
After say 7/7 there was no reasonable attempt to add security screeners at every station.
"Mr Kebede, pictured, banged on his neighbour's door, potentially saving hundreds of lives – after flames took in the kitchen of his fourth floor flat."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606078/Man-faulty-fridge-started-Grenfell-Tower-inferno.html#ixzz4k5wFkQuc
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There's very little respect in society anymore, including the media and online.
RIP all the victims.
If the study concluded that installing sprinklers was worthwhile on this basis and it wasn't done then yes I agree it's scandalous.
Said no-one, ever.
And the pleas of the community and families are demanding action now- and we do the same out of brotherhood and respect for them.