How dare you accuse people of trying to score cheap points with something as serious as this. Do you know what they are thinking? My comment was a direct reaction to that ignorant statement. People have to be re-assured so early action is needed for that reason.
RIP to the victims. It's a shame that on this wonderful site we can't give it 24 hours before we want to start looking for people to blame, bring to justice.
RIP to the victims. It's a shame that on this wonderful site we can't give it 24 hours before we want to start looking for people to blame, bring to justice.
Exactly my point. Be careful though, you'll get lambasted by the "experts".
The question in my mind is If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase? Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm. I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move. I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen. I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage. How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows? Let's wait and see.
People are going to bed tonight in their homes in high rise blocks re-furbished by the same company. They don't have any other choice. They may have kids, they may be terrified. My point and let us not try to slag people off over it - but my point is the delay affects them. Please try to see that and undertsand the point in that context.
RIP to the victims. It's a shame that on this wonderful site we can't give it 24 hours before we want to start looking for people to blame, bring to justice.
Go down to North Kensington and see if they agree with you there.
The question in my mind is If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase? Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm. I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move. I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen. I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage. How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows? Let's wait and see.
The question in my mind is If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase? Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm. I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move. I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen. I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage. How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows? Let's wait and see.
This.
This fire regardless of it's origins was somebody's fault in the design, construction and materials that allowed the initial blaze to spread to all parts of the building in less than thirty minutes. This is 2017 and this disaster was what you might expect in a third world country.
It might come down to penny pinching it might not. It might come down to inadequate building regulations. It might not. What is certain is that the people who live in blocks or anywhere have the absolute right to have things better than what has just happened.
Yes let's find out what was the reason this occurred and damned well make sure that it doesn't and can't happen again.
The fridge might well have been the source of the blaze. The fridge did not cause this disaster.
My understanding is that flats are generally designed to keep a fire contained for 30 mins, which hopefully gives the fire service enough time to put it out. Perhaps the chap left his front door open, which would have caused the fire to spread more quickly and/or as it was a warm night, his windows may have been open, leading to the cladding catching light quite quickly.
Anyway I shouldn't be speculating and my thoughts are with everyone who has suffered from this disaster.
Apart from the fridge being adjacent to a gas cooker, there are not a great deal of combusable parts that make up a fridge. That's my lot on this thread.
The question in my mind is If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase? Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm. I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move. I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen. I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage. How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows? Let's wait and see.
This.
This fire regardless of it's origins was somebody's fault in the design, construction and materials that allowed the initial blaze to spread to all parts of the building in less than thirty minutes. This is 2017 and this disaster was what you might expect in a third world country.
It might come down to penny pinching it might not. It might come down to inadequate building regulations. It might not. What is certain is that the people who live in blocks or anywhere have the absolute right to have things better than what has just happened.
Yes let's find out what was the reason this occurred and damned well make sure that it doesn't and can't happen again.
The fridge might well have been the source of the blaze. The fridge did not cause this disaster.
I'm not disagreeing. I just wish people on here would stop speculating as to the cause and await the answers.
The question in my mind is If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase? Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm. I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move. I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen. I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage. How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows? Let's wait and see.
This.
This fire regardless of it's origins was somebody's fault in the design, construction and materials that allowed the initial blaze to spread to all parts of the building in less than thirty minutes. This is 2017 and this disaster was what you might expect in a third world country.
It might come down to penny pinching it might not. It might come down to inadequate building regulations. It might not. What is certain is that the people who live in blocks or anywhere have the absolute right to have things better than what has just happened.
Yes let's find out what was the reason this occurred and damned well make sure that it doesn't and can't happen again.
The fridge might well have been the source of the blaze. The fridge did not cause this disaster.
It might not be anyone's 'fault' just a series of tragic linked events which would have been meaningless in isolation but collectively were disastrous. No doubt we will find out in a long time.
Remember that awful air crash with the suicidal pilot? It was the result of logical policies (ie locking the cockpit door) which was the direct result of 9/11 and something everyone acknowledged was a good thing at the time.
The question in my mind is If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase? Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm. I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move. I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen. I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage. How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows? Let's wait and see.
This.
This fire regardless of it's origins was somebody's fault in the design, construction and materials that allowed the initial blaze to spread to all parts of the building in less than thirty minutes. This is 2017 and this disaster was what you might expect in a third world country.
It might come down to penny pinching it might not. It might come down to inadequate building regulations. It might not. What is certain is that the people who live in blocks or anywhere have the absolute right to have things better than what has just happened.
Yes let's find out what was the reason this occurred and damned well make sure that it doesn't and can't happen again.
The fridge might well have been the source of the blaze. The fridge did not cause this disaster.
But we must also realise that an enquiry - whilst it has to happen - will take several months if not years. We have to take action now as we can't wait that long if people are at risk. If peope take the trouble to read the Lakanal House report and reccomendations they will see the similarities. Why not dust that report off and action that in the meantime. Read about that and you will see terrible similarities, the fire spread externally, the advice to stay put was wrong......
My understanding is that flats are generally designed to keep a fire contained for 30 mins, which hopefully gives the fire service enough time to put it out. Perhaps the chap left his front door open, which would have caused the fire to spread more quickly and/or as it was a warm night, his windows may have been open, leading to the cladding catching light quite quickly.
Anyway I shouldn't be speculating and my thoughts are with everyone who has suffered from this disaster.
I listened to Sadiq Khan's press conference and all respect to him for doing it, but I really don't think, given the ferocity of the way some people were shouting over his press conference that that was a safe or logical place for Theresa May to be, as Muttley himself says "this shouldn't be political but......"
She shouldn't be there. This is a human tragedy, not a political one. Some of the flats in there were renting at £2k a month
Grief will, and is turning to due to the real or perceived lack of official support from the authorities.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is not the U.K.plc finest hour.
With regard to your comment re:absence of coordinated assistance I cannot speak for all other authorities but at least two of my certain knowledge have cut back on staff in emergency planning departments. I would expect that's a very common response when presented with making savings i.e. councils will cut the posts that are least likely to cause local objections and adverse media attention.
You may be right about cuts, I don't know but my point is about poor management.
It doesn't matter what their funding levels are, the leader of the council or the very highly paid CEO should be bringing in staff from neighbouring boroughs or demanding the government supply civil servants or military administrators to organise on the ground.
They should be picking up the ball and running with it, not sitting in the bar with their heads in their hands.
No excuse whatsoever for lack of visible action. I can see the anger only getting worse and the politicians who are not seen to act will regret it.
I listened to Sadiq Khan's press conference and all respect to him for doing it, but I really don't think, given the ferocity of the way some people were shouting over his press conference that that was a safe or logical place for Theresa May to be, as Muttley himself says "this shouldn't be political but......"
She shouldn't be there. This is a human tragedy, not a political one. Some of the flats in there were renting at £2k a month
She clearly doesn't do the touchy-feely stuff which is fair enough - I was just hoping her other qualities might have come more to the fore in recent weeks.
Just to clarify,is this 100% Theresa May's fault or just 99% Theresa May's fault.
Society's fault
Agreed. I accidentally posted a draft. My issue is that some people will attempt to make anything political. The word "austerity" gets thrown around in an attempt to win votes regardless of the tragedy we have seen and the decency most might show. The fact is that this block had just undergone a multi million pound rennovation. Evil austerity.
For me, as someone who is open to all opinions, this lies at the hands of the renmovators, not (sorry!) Theresa May
Absolutely tragic. Sadiq Khan has been brilliant today in my opinion, as have the hundreds of people that have given so many resources that they have had to be turned away.
Been on duty today and theres been lots of developments,some on the news,some not. We've been told today that we will be in attendance for days/weeks until everyone is found and brought out of the building. At the moment the fire has reignited on the 7th floor and as it stands,theres 8 fire engines fighting it. Lots of horror stories from the lads/lasses on my station who were there. They,in the whole are stunned by the events they witnessed and every one of them went so far above and beyond. Eighteen firefighters were injured,ranging from burns to exhaustion but all ok thankfully.
I think it is for an equiry to identify the reasons -That may go back to the Labour party too. let the truth tell us what it has to. But there are things that can be done now, Why despite the reports of multiple pleas from residents, were they ignored. I don't see why those accused can't be asked questions now. They are not Westminster politicians. Nobody will have wanted this to happen, we must always remember trhat, but some people MAY have been able to prevent it. I am hearing the grieving community call for swift action and there are things that can be done swiftly.
But most importantly, we may have a ticking time bomb here which means we don't have time to delay. The reality is people are living in blocks now which may be just as dangerous. The advice needs reviewing as a matter of urgency and there was a similar fire in 2009 - not as devastating in terms of loss of life but a smaller building. There is a report about that.
Another thing that seems to be upsetting the community is the reporting of the number of deaths. I understand the need to report accurately, but it feels strange a rough caveated figure of the number of missing has not been announced. It may be because the loss of life has not been as severe as feared, but if it is asmassive as the community is saying, there has to be a question why this isn't being shared. Enough time has passed to know if the figure is likely to be in the 20s, 30s, 50, 100s or even higher. When we are told the figure given will rise, we are not being told it will rise massively. I don't undertsand why, but I can see from the news it is upsetting people.
I listened to Sadiq Khan's press conference and all respect to him for doing it, but I really don't think, given the ferocity of the way some people were shouting over his press conference that that was a safe or logical place for Theresa May to be, as Muttley himself says "this shouldn't be political but......"
She shouldn't be there. This is a human tragedy, not a political one. Some of the flats in there were renting at £2k a month
She clearly doesn't do the touchy-feely stuff which is fair enough - I was just hoping her other qualities might have come more to the fore in recent weeks.
Agreed, I have to say that I am quite disappointed in her reactions. She lacks the common touch, which is to be expected of a Conservative politician, but she seems so far removed that she is barely recognisable as a human sometimes.
That place was not the right place for her though. The locals were looking for blood (and rightly so) and with political points being scored while bodies are still being recovered, I would have advised her to be very, very careful.
I listened to Sadiq Khan's press conference and all respect to him for doing it, but I really don't think, given the ferocity of the way some people were shouting over his press conference that that was a safe or logical place for Theresa May to be, as Muttley himself says "this shouldn't be political but......"
She shouldn't be there. This is a human tragedy, not a political one. Some of the flats in there were renting at £2k a month
She clearly doesn't do the touchy-feely stuff which is fair enough - I was just hoping her other qualities might have come more to the fore in recent weeks.
Agreed, I have to say that I am quite disappointed in her reactions. She lacks the common touch, which is to be expected of a Conservative politician, but she seems so far removed that she is barely recognisable as a human sometimes.
That place was not the right place for her though. The locals were looking for blood (and rightly so) and with political points being scored while bodies are still being recovered, I would have advised her to be very, very careful.
Unlike that man of the people Gordon Brown and his bigoted woman remark!
Comments
It's a shame that on this wonderful site we can't give it 24 hours before we want to start looking for people to blame, bring to justice.
If your flat caught fire would you pack a suitcase?
Look, I don't want all the flack, but personally, I would try and put it out, and if that wasn't possible, raise the alarm.
I come from social housing, and it isn't unheard of to torch the place to get a move.
I appreciate that whatever the inquiry finds, that building (and subsequence loss of life) should never be allowed to happen.
I struggle to see that a faulty appliance can cause this amount of damage.
How many people with up to date electrics have to reset circuit breakers when a light bulb blows?
Let's wait and see.
It might come down to penny pinching it might not. It might come down to inadequate building regulations. It might not. What is certain is that the people who live in blocks or anywhere have the absolute right to have things better than what has just happened.
Yes let's find out what was the reason this occurred and damned well make sure that it doesn't and can't happen again.
The fridge might well have been the source of the blaze. The fridge did not cause this disaster.
Perhaps the chap left his front door open, which would have caused the fire to spread more quickly and/or as it was a warm night, his windows may have been open, leading to the cladding catching light quite quickly.
Anyway I shouldn't be speculating and my thoughts are with everyone who has suffered from this disaster.
That's my lot on this thread.
Remember that awful air crash with the suicidal pilot? It was the result of logical policies (ie locking the cockpit door) which was the direct result of 9/11 and something everyone acknowledged was a good thing at the time.
Feel free to call me a tw*t though :-)
She shouldn't be there. This is a human tragedy, not a political one. Some of the flats in there were renting at £2k a month
This sort of cladding is not permitted in the US for example.
It doesn't matter what their funding levels are, the leader of the council or the very highly paid CEO should be bringing in staff from neighbouring boroughs or demanding the government supply civil servants or military administrators to organise on the ground.
They should be picking up the ball and running with it, not sitting in the bar with their heads in their hands.
No excuse whatsoever for lack of visible action. I can see the anger only getting worse and the politicians who are not seen to act will regret it.
For me, as someone who is open to all opinions, this lies at the hands of the renmovators, not (sorry!) Theresa May
Absolutely tragic. Sadiq Khan has been brilliant today in my opinion, as have the hundreds of people that have given so many resources that they have had to be turned away.
That's London spirit.
But most importantly, we may have a ticking time bomb here which means we don't have time to delay. The reality is people are living in blocks now which may be just as dangerous. The advice needs reviewing as a matter of urgency and there was a similar fire in 2009 - not as devastating in terms of loss of life but a smaller building. There is a report about that.
Another thing that seems to be upsetting the community is the reporting of the number of deaths. I understand the need to report accurately, but it feels strange a rough caveated figure of the number of missing has not been announced. It may be because the loss of life has not been as severe as feared, but if it is asmassive as the community is saying, there has to be a question why this isn't being shared. Enough time has passed to know if the figure is likely to be in the 20s, 30s, 50, 100s or even higher. When we are told the figure given will rise, we are not being told it will rise massively. I don't undertsand why, but I can see from the news it is upsetting people.
That place was not the right place for her though. The locals were looking for blood (and rightly so) and with political points being scored while bodies are still being recovered, I would have advised her to be very, very careful.