I think it is for an equiry to identify the reasons -That may go back to the Labour party too. let the truth tell us what it has to. But there are things that can be done now, Why despite the reports of multiple pleas from residents, were they ignored. I don't see why those accused can't be asked questions now. They are not Westminster politicians. Nobody will have wanted this to happen, we must always remember trhat, but some people MAY have been able to prevent it. I am hearing the grieving community call for swift action and there are things that can be done swiftly.
But most importantly, we may have a ticking time bomb here which means we don't have time to delay. The reality is people are living in blocks now which may be just as dangerous. The advice needs reviewing as a matter of urgency and there was a similar fire in 2009 - not as devastating in terms of loss of life but a smaller building. There is a report about that.
Another thing that seems to be upsetting the community is the reporting of the number of deaths. I understand the need to report accurately, but it feels strange a rough caveated figure of the number of missing has not been announced. It may because the loss of life has not been as severe as feared, but if it is asmassive as the community is saying, there has to be a question why this isn't being shared. Enough time has passed to know if the figure is likely to be in the 20s, 30s, 50, 100s or even higher. When we are told the figure given will rise, we are not being told it will rise massively. I don't undertsand why, but I can see from the news it is upsetting people.
Couldn't agree more with this. I heard someone from the fire service saying "they are hoping the death toll doesn't reach triple figures"
This needs to be prevented from happening again. This needs to happen now, a public enquiry that takes years and has next to no meaningful conclusions will be a slap in the face of those involved in this terrible tragedy.
A meaningful program to prevent this from happening again will be a silver lining in a completely tragic event, and will be the best possible result for those left behind.
I think it is for an equiry to identify the reasons -That may go back to the Labour party too. let the truth tell us what it has to. But there are things that can be done now, Why despite the reports of multiple pleas from residents, were they ignored. I don't see why those accused can't be asked questions now. They are not Westminster politicians. Nobody will have wanted this to happen, we must always remember trhat, but some people MAY have been able to prevent it. I am hearing the grieving community call for swift action and there are things that can be done swiftly.
But most importantly, we may have a ticking time bomb here which means we don't have time to delay. The reality is people are living in blocks now which may be just as dangerous. The advice needs reviewing as a matter of urgency and there was a similar fire in 2009 - not as devastating in terms of loss of life but a smaller building. There is a report about that.
Another thing that seems to be upsetting the community is the reporting of the number of deaths. I understand the need to report accurately, but it feels strange a rough caveated figure of the number of missing has not been announced. It may be because the loss of life has not been as severe as feared, but if it is asmassive as the community is saying, there has to be a question why this isn't being shared. Enough time has passed to know if the figure is likely to be in the 20s, 30s, 50, 100s or even higher. When we are told the figure given will rise, we are not being told it will rise massively. I don't undertsand why, but I can see from the news it is upsetting people.
They'll have no idea how many people were in the building - not like an office building where people will be counted in and out.
Been on duty today and theres been lots of developments,some on the news,some not. We've been told today that we will be in attendance for days/weeks until everyone is found and brought out of the building. At the moment the fire has reignited on the 7th floor and as it stands,theres 8 fire engines fighting it. Lots of horror stories from the lads/lasses on my station who were there. They,in the whole are stunned by the events they witnessed and every one of them went so far above and beyond. Eighteen firefighters were injured,ranging from burns to exhaustion but all ok thankfully.
I think it is for an equiry to identify the reasons -That may go back to the Labour party too. let the truth tell us what it has to. But there are things that can be done now, Why despite the reports of multiple pleas from residents, were they ignored. I don't see why those accused can't be asked questions now. They are not Westminster politicians. Nobody will have wanted this to happen, we must always remember trhat, but some people MAY have been able to prevent it. I am hearing the grieving community call for swift action and there are things that can be done swiftly.
But most importantly, we may have a ticking time bomb here which means we don't have time to delay. The reality is people are living in blocks now which may be just as dangerous. The advice needs reviewing as a matter of urgency and there was a similar fire in 2009 - not as devastating in terms of loss of life but a smaller building. There is a report about that.
Another thing that seems to be upsetting the community is the reporting of the number of deaths. I understand the need to report accurately, but it feels strange a rough caveated figure of the number of missing has not been announced. It may be because the loss of life has not been as severe as feared, but if it is asmassive as the community is saying, there has to be a question why this isn't being shared. Enough time has passed to know if the figure is likely to be in the 20s, 30s, 50, 100s or even higher. When we are told the figure given will rise, we are not being told it will rise massively. I don't undertsand why, but I can see from the news it is upsetting people.
I said very early on the death toll could rise to 3 figures and I still think that is likely.
I think it is for an equiry to identify the reasons -That may go back to the Labour party too. let the truth tell us what it has to. But there are things that can be done now, Why despite the reports of multiple pleas from residents, were they ignored. I don't see why those accused can't be asked questions now. They are not Westminster politicians. Nobody will have wanted this to happen, we must always remember trhat, but some people MAY have been able to prevent it. I am hearing the grieving community call for swift action and there are things that can be done swiftly.
But most importantly, we may have a ticking time bomb here which means we don't have time to delay. The reality is people are living in blocks now which may be just as dangerous. The advice needs reviewing as a matter of urgency and there was a similar fire in 2009 - not as devastating in terms of loss of life but a smaller building. There is a report about that.
Another thing that seems to be upsetting the community is the reporting of the number of deaths. I understand the need to report accurately, but it feels strange a rough caveated figure of the number of missing has not been announced. It may be because the loss of life has not been as severe as feared, but if it is asmassive as the community is saying, there has to be a question why this isn't being shared. Enough time has passed to know if the figure is likely to be in the 20s, 30s, 50, 100s or even higher. When we are told the figure given will rise, we are not being told it will rise massively. I don't undertsand why, but I can see from the news it is upsetting people.
They'll have no idea how many people were in the building - not like an office building where people will be counted in and out.
They will have an idea by now how many people are missing though. They can say that doesn't mean they are all victims.
Been on duty today and theres been lots of developments,some on the news,some not. We've been told today that we will be in attendance for days/weeks until everyone is found and brought out of the building. At the moment the fire has reignited on the 7th floor and as it stands,theres 8 fire engines fighting it. Lots of horror stories from the lads/lasses on my station who were there. They,in the whole are stunned by the events they witnessed and every one of them went so far above and beyond. Eighteen firefighters were injured,ranging from burns to exhaustion but all ok thankfully.
Been retired for three years but still with you all in spirit. God bless the lot of you
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
And when in the last 50 years did we see a whole tower block alight after 15 minutes and people trapped unable to get out with the police now saying it might be impossible to identify some of the deceased ?
But many will have been. If I am hearing correctly we are looking closer to 100s than 20s. I hope what we are hearing is wrong, but there seemed to be a lot of anger about this watching the news. I'm sure there is not a sinister reason, but the community is hurting and angry and we have to listen and respond to that. Exact figures are not needed but we shouldn't be open toaccusations that the scale of the disaster is being played down in the immediate aftermath for whatever reason/
I can't stand the woman to be honest but she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't in my view.
What? Damned is she does 'bother' to take the time to meet some of those affected? Really? No way! She's the bloody leader (apparently) of a country that has just witnessed a truly shocking disaster.
She visited the area but couldn't be arsed to even bother to speak to some of the residents who were lucky enough to get out of the building! That alone is a disgrace!! The utter arrogance of the woman showed it's true colours today. Her lack of 'empathy' (well, bottle really) is shameful and shows a real disconnect with reality! 'Strong and Stable Leadership'??? You'd get more strength and stability from an igloo in the Saharan mid-day sun!!
When are sprinklers goingto be installed in all high rise blocks? I am getting angrier this has not been announced yet!
Because it's virtually impossible to do.
It took me three years to get approval for and support funding from KFRS to retrofit a sprinkler system to a 10 storey block in North Kent.
Resident consultation, Section 20 notices to all leaseholders - three of whom we were unable to find as they lived overseas and sub let their flat - our tenants as well as leaseholders refusing to allow the contractors access to their flats and political pressure to make sure we can't force this on them.
Opposition to the additional service charges for servicing and maintaining the new systems.
Problems trying to find the best contractors and subbies to carry out the works -and the price increase when they knew we had 50% grant funding.
Problems with South East water and their ability to provide the block with a guaranteed water supply, let alone the post installation problems we've had with supplies at the required pressure.
The work is finished but we've still not been able to complete it to six flats. If there is a fire in one of them, then we have to rely on the alarm system and compartmentation to work.
Oh, and the average cost per flat was £3,170. So please don't accept marketing figures for a one installation that are just not happening in the real world
The sooner the Building Regulations are changed to ensure all new high rise blocks and all buildings that house vulnerable people have sprinklers then the better.
The retrofitting of sprinklers in existing building is a completely different kettle of fish and I'd prefer those who know fuck all about this apart from what they read from shouty posters on twitter, to actually wait and see what caused this horrific fire, how it spread so quickly, why did the passive fire protection fail and if the rumours about failures in the active protection are true or not.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
And when in the last 50 years did we see a whole tower block alight after 15 minutes and people trapped unable to get out with the police now saying it might be impossible to identify some of the deceased ?
This is a unique event. Something has seriously gone wrong.
I assume you never cross the road as people get run over every week or drive a car because they crash on a regular basis.
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
And when in the last 50 years did we see a whole tower block alight after 15 minutes and people trapped unable to get out with the police now saying it might be impossible to identify some of the deceased ?
This is all getting a bit OTT, we have no idea yet what the issue is and if sprinklers would have had any effect. I can't believe this has been the first fire in a tower block the last 50 years so there's a dynamic here we are yet to know (although people seem to be putting it down to the cladding). Wasn't like our fantastic fire fighters didn't get there quickly.
Yet somehow on here we've decided the solution and issue was;
A) due to Austerity and due to lack of sprinklers
And when in the last 50 years did we see a whole tower block alight after 15 minutes and people trapped unable to get out with the police now saying it might be impossible to identify some of the deceased ?
This is a unique event. Something has seriously gone wrong.
I assume you never cross the road as people get run over every week or drive a car because they crash on a regular basis.
I am truly appalled that you think that is an appropriate thing to say
Suspect you wouldn't go to the area of this disaster and spout such appalling bile to the people who live in the area and who are looking for relatives and friends
If a decorous debate requires us to give Theresa May a pass on this grievous issue, then out of respect for all on here and for all those directly involved, then so be it.
However, it must be said that having seen her authority severely damaged within her own party, now apparently the leader of the world's fifth most powerful nation has to be circumspect when visiting somewhere only five miles from her seat of power. If only for this battered country's sake, I wish her well.
I manage the fire safety for 2,300 social housing 'blocks' 17 of which are over ten storeys which cover every possible tenure you could imagine.
That involves managing the risk assessment programme along with re-assessments, managing and programming all the hundreds of actions raised as a result of the assessments, both passive and active works, as well as managing the servicing and maintenance contract for all the fire safety equipment.
I've spent over £750k on fire safety SIGNAGE alone in the last five years. If I've needed urgent funding due to unforeseen issues, I've been given every penny I need.
Along with training staff, working with five different regional Brigades and producing monthly stats and figures to ensure we are not only compliant with current legislation, but are hitting our 'targets'.
Those who seem to think a lower level of fire safety is provided to social housing residents are just talking out of their arse. Part B of the Building Regulations and BS 9999 apply whether you are a King or a pauper. The same standards are there for everyone, with no exceptions.
We are one of the top performing associations in the Country with regards fire safety and I'm proud to say I've never been served with any enforcement notification for any of our stock since I've been in the role.
Could I guarantee one of my refurbished high rise blocks couldn't burst into flames like Grenfell Towers? Well I'm 99% comfortable that they wouldn't.
But 99% isn't a total guarantee and this fire and the response of so many people looking for someone to blame at such an early stage in the disaster has made me realise I don't need to take all this shit.
My current career is dedicated to providing the best fire safety I am able to do, to all my residents regardless ofsex, colour, religion or wealth. I suspect whoever is carrying out a similar role at KCTMO does the same.
When are sprinklers goingto be installed in all high rise blocks? I am getting angrier this has not been announced yet!
Because it's virtually impossible to do.
It took me three years to get approval for and support funding from KFRS to retrofit a sprinkler system to a 10 storey block in North Kent.
Resident consultation, Section 20 notices to all leaseholders - three of whom we were unable to find as they lived overseas and sub let their flat - our tenants as well as leaseholders refusing to allow the contractors access to their flats and political pressure to make sure we can't force this on them.
Opposition to the additional service charges for servicing and maintaining the new systems.
Problems trying to find the best contractors and subbies to carry out the works -and the price increase when they knew we had 50% grant funding.
Problems with South East water and their ability to provide the block with a guaranteed water supply, let alone the post installation problems we've had with supplies at the required pressure.
The work is finished but we've still not been able to complete it to six flats. If there is a fire in one of them, then we have to rely on the alarm system and compartmentation to work.
Oh, and the average cost per flat was £3,170. So please don't accept marketing figures for a one installation that are just not happening in the real world
The sooner the Building Regulations are changed to ensure all new high rise blocks and all buildings that house vulnerable people have sprinklers then the better.
The retrofitting of sprinklers in existing building is a completely different kettle of fish and I'd prefer those who know fuck all about this apart from what they read from shouty posters on twitter, to actually wait and see what caused this horrific fire, how it spread so quickly, why did the passive fire protection fail and if the rumours about failures in the active protection are true or not.
At last, a post from someone who knows what he's talking about. As for your last paragraph, I couldn't agree more.
I manage the fire safety for 2,300 social housing 'blocks' 17 of which are over ten storeys which cover every possible tenure you could imagine.
That involves managing the risk assessment programme along with re-assessments, managing and programming all the hundreds of actions raised as a result of the assessments, both passive and active works, as well as managing the servicing and maintenance contract for all the fire safety equipment.
I've spent over £750k on fire safety SIGNAGE alone in the last five years. If I've needed urgent funding due to unforeseen issues, I've been given every penny I need.
Along with training staff, working with five different regional Brigades and producing monthly stats and figures to ensure we are not only compliant with current legislation, but are hitting our 'targets'.
Those who seem to think a lower level of fire safety is provided to social housing residents are just talking out of their arse. Part B of the Building Regulations and BS 9999 apply whether you are a King or a pauper. The same standards are there for everyone, with no exceptions.
We are one of the top performing associations in the Country with regards fire safety and I'm proud to say I've never been served with any enforcement notification for any of our stock since I've been in the role.
Could I guarantee one of my refurbished high rise blocks couldn't burst into flames like Grenfell Towers? Well I'm 99% comfortable that they wouldn't.
But 99% isn't a total guarantee and this fire and the response of so many people looking for someone to blame at such an early stage in the disaster has made me realise I don't need to take all this shit.
My current career is dedicated to providing the best fire safety I am able to do, to all my residents regardless ofsex, colour, religion or wealth. I suspect whoever is carrying out a similar role at KCTMO does the same.
I think if you can't take this 'shit' you should talk to your employer rather than posters on CL
Please stop trying to score political points. Show some respect.
I'm not, but the political response to a disaster of this magnitude is allowed to be debated.
I'm afraid you are and yes it is allowed, but it's not appropriate imo. It's too early, people are still unaware of what has happened to their loved ones.
I manage the fire safety for 2,300 social housing 'blocks' 17 of which are over ten storeys which cover every possible tenure you could imagine.
That involves managing the risk assessment programme along with re-assessments, managing and programming all the hundreds of actions raised as a result of the assessments, both passive and active works, as well as managing the servicing and maintenance contract for all the fire safety equipment.
I've spent over £750k on fire safety SIGNAGE alone in the last five years. If I've needed urgent funding due to unforeseen issues, I've been given every penny I need.
Along with training staff, working with five different regional Brigades and producing monthly stats and figures to ensure we are not only compliant with current legislation, but are hitting our 'targets'.
Those who seem to think a lower level of fire safety is provided to social housing residents are just talking out of their arse. Part B of the Building Regulations and BS 9999 apply whether you are a King or a pauper. The same standards are there for everyone, with no exceptions.
We are one of the top performing associations in the Country with regards fire safety and I'm proud to say I've never been served with any enforcement notification for any of our stock since I've been in the role.
Could I guarantee one of my refurbished high rise blocks couldn't burst into flames like Grenfell Towers? Well I'm 99% comfortable that they wouldn't.
But 99% isn't a total guarantee and this fire and the response of so many people looking for someone to blame at such an early stage in the disaster has made me realise I don't need to take all this shit.
My current career is dedicated to providing the best fire safety I am able to do, to all my residents regardless ofsex, colour, religion or wealth. I suspect whoever is carrying out a similar role at KCTMO does the same.
I think if you can't take this 'shit' you should talk to your employer rather than posters on CL
Comments
This needs to be prevented from happening again. This needs to happen now, a public enquiry that takes years and has next to no meaningful conclusions will be a slap in the face of those involved in this terrible tragedy.
A meaningful program to prevent this from happening again will be a silver lining in a completely tragic event, and will be the best possible result for those left behind.
God bless the lot of you
She visited the area but couldn't be arsed to even bother to speak to some of the residents who were lucky enough to get out of the building! That alone is a disgrace!! The utter arrogance of the woman showed it's true colours today. Her lack of 'empathy' (well, bottle really) is shameful and shows a real disconnect with reality! 'Strong and Stable Leadership'??? You'd get more strength and stability from an igloo in the Saharan mid-day sun!!
It took me three years to get approval for and support funding from KFRS to retrofit a sprinkler system to a 10 storey block in North Kent.
Resident consultation, Section 20 notices to all leaseholders - three of whom we were unable to find as they lived overseas and sub let their flat - our tenants as well as leaseholders refusing to allow the contractors access to their flats and political pressure to make sure we can't force this on them.
Opposition to the additional service charges for servicing and maintaining the new systems.
Problems trying to find the best contractors and subbies to carry out the works -and the price increase when they knew we had 50% grant funding.
Problems with South East water and their ability to provide the block with a guaranteed water supply, let alone the post installation problems we've had with supplies at the required pressure.
The work is finished but we've still not been able to complete it to six flats. If there is a fire in one of them, then we have to rely on the alarm system and compartmentation to work.
Oh, and the average cost per flat was £3,170. So please don't accept marketing figures for a one installation that are just not happening in the real world
The sooner the Building Regulations are changed to ensure all new high rise blocks and all buildings that house vulnerable people have sprinklers then the better.
The retrofitting of sprinklers in existing building is a completely different kettle of fish and I'd prefer those who know fuck all about this apart from what they read from shouty posters on twitter, to actually wait and see what caused this horrific fire, how it spread so quickly, why did the passive fire protection fail and if the rumours about failures in the active protection are true or not.
I assume you never cross the road as people get run over every week or drive a car because they crash on a regular basis.
Suspect you wouldn't go to the area of this disaster and spout such appalling bile to the people who live in the area and who are looking for relatives and friends
You disgust me
If a decorous debate requires us to give Theresa May a pass on this grievous issue, then out of respect for all on here and for all those directly involved, then so be it.
However, it must be said that having seen her authority severely damaged within her own party, now apparently the leader of the world's fifth most powerful nation has to be circumspect when visiting somewhere only five miles from her seat of power. If only for this battered country's sake, I wish her well.
That involves managing the risk assessment programme along with re-assessments, managing and programming all the hundreds of actions raised as a result of the assessments, both passive and active works, as well as managing the servicing and maintenance contract for all the fire safety equipment.
I've spent over £750k on fire safety SIGNAGE alone in the last five years. If I've needed urgent funding due to unforeseen issues, I've been given every penny I need.
Along with training staff, working with five different regional Brigades and producing monthly stats and figures to ensure we are not only compliant with current legislation, but are hitting our 'targets'.
Those who seem to think a lower level of fire safety is provided to social housing residents are just talking out of their arse. Part B of the Building Regulations and BS 9999 apply whether you are a King or a pauper. The same standards are there for everyone, with no exceptions.
We are one of the top performing associations in the Country with regards fire safety and I'm proud to say I've never been served with any enforcement notification for any of our stock since I've been in the role.
Could I guarantee one of my refurbished high rise blocks couldn't burst into flames like Grenfell Towers? Well I'm 99% comfortable that they wouldn't.
But 99% isn't a total guarantee and this fire and the response of so many people looking for someone to blame at such an early stage in the disaster has made me realise I don't need to take all this shit.
My current career is dedicated to providing the best fire safety I am able to do, to all my residents regardless ofsex, colour, religion or wealth. I suspect whoever is carrying out a similar role at KCTMO does the same.
As for your last paragraph, I couldn't agree more.
Beggars believe.
It's too early, people are still unaware of what has happened to their loved ones.