Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Latimer Road fire

1141517192037

Comments

  • aliwibble said:

    corbyn yesterday taking an opportunity to attack tories whilst people are still missing in a burning building i thought was bad

    Did you actually watch the interview, or are you just going by what was reported about it?

    did he criticise the government the day it happened? Yes

    is the government coservative? Yes

    edit; may visited the site yesterday, the constant blubbing over everything she does is quite irritating, suppose this will be a constant until corbyn is pm.
    Bit like the people on here who leap to blame Khan for anything and everything that happens in London including on this thread and this fire.
    ive never blamed khan, the way he handled the media after 2 terrorist attacks i think was bad.
    Never said you did but Carlyburn did though and isn't May being blamed for the way she's acted after the fire?

    Khan says "People shouldn't be alarmed when they see armed police and soldiers on the streets of London" and this is spun as Khan said people shouldn't be alarmed by the London bridge attack.
    I never blamed Khan for this?
  • apologies @AFKABartram but when my comment is quoted i need to respond as it was a snippet of what i said.
  • edited June 2017
    Addickted said:

    How far do you go with improving the fire regulations though. Do we make all buildings sterile?

    I

    Addickted said:

    When are sprinklers goingto be installed in all high rise blocks? I am getting angrier this has not been announced yet!

    Because it's virtually impossible to do.

    It took me three years to get approval for and support funding from KFRS to retrofit a sprinkler system to a 10 storey block in North Kent.

    Resident consultation, Section 20 notices to all leaseholders - three of whom we were unable to find as they lived overseas and sub let their flat - our tenants as well as leaseholders refusing to allow the contractors access to their flats and political pressure to make sure we can't force this on them.

    Opposition to the additional service charges for servicing and maintaining the new systems.

    Problems trying to find the best contractors and subbies to carry out the works -and the price increase when they knew we had 50% grant funding.

    Problems with South East water and their ability to provide the block with a guaranteed water supply, let alone the post installation problems we've had with supplies at the required pressure.

    The work is finished but we've still not been able to complete it to six flats. If there is a fire in one of them, then we have to rely on the alarm system and compartmentation to work.

    Oh, and the average cost per flat was £3,170. So please don't accept marketing figures for a one installation that are just not happening in the real world

    The sooner the Building Regulations are changed to ensure all new high rise blocks and all buildings that house vulnerable people have sprinklers then the better.

    The retrofitting of sprinklers in existing building is a completely different kettle of fish and I'd prefer those who know fuck all about this apart from what they read from shouty posters on twitter, to actually wait and see what caused this horrific fire, how it spread so quickly, why did the passive fire protection fail and if the rumours about failures in the active protection are true or not.

    I do respect and understand what you are saying, but I don't suppose the residents who were voicing their concerns were experts in fire safety. Maybe that is part of the reason their concerns were ignored. What I do know is that the experts in fire safety did not protect them.

    And I have this morning seen on the TV experts in fire safety calling for retro fitting of sprinklers. There is an expert report dating from 2013 demanding this. What is the difference between these people and you? As a non expert I think that is a fair question - and it is not meant in an aggresive way.
    None taken, Happy to explain.

    Firstly, there are massive concerns from residents about the disruption. Elderly and disabled particularly find this kind of disruption to their daily lives unbearable. And it is an unbelievably messy job retrofittng a sprinkler system. The first residential building site I've visited where ear defenders are compulsory.

    My previous post on this explains the first example I've worked on - meanwhile our development team have built three buildings with sprinkler systems in - over and above the building regulations and despite massive opposition from some of our senior management team. Attitudes changed slightly after I got someone in to explain to them the extent of the Corporate Manslaughter Act.

    Of course, if you make it law then it will happen, but its not an overnight fix. It will take at least a decade to complete.

    A quick win would be to introduce the requirement now, for all new builds of four storeys or over to have a sprinkler or mist system installed during construction, I see no reason why this cannot happen today.
    Not sure this fully answered my questions. And again, I am asking because I am interested and want to inform my view - not because I want to undermine or score points and I am not demanding you answer. It is clear that it is not easy, but when other experts are saying it should have happened, what expert are we supposed to accept is right?

    And is there not a potential danger if we are experts and know more that we might ignore concerns of people who are not qualified, but do live in the building?

    On breakfast TV this morning - there was the safety expert who worked on the Shard - he said sprinklers should have been fitted and should now be fitted. A few may have seen it. Should we ignore what he has said? Can you see it is quite confusing when diffeerent experts tell us different things.
  • edited June 2017
    Apportioning blame at this point is futile although there is eventual cause to do so.

    @Addicted has given us a real insight into the realities of tower block management. I'm sure that in the conventional sense Grenfell House met those requirements.

    The real issue is accepting the fact that the materials used or perhaps way they were installed (the cladding) have actually made what might and should have been a contained fire much worse to the point where it is now a national disaster.

    No materials should have the ability to act as they did. We have a right to expect that building regulations protect us from designs and materials which are not completely safe. This is where there has been a massive failure.

    You cannot buy a sofa that is not fully fire retardant. It will smoulder for a long time before it ignites. We are rightly protected. I just don't understand how any material, design or installation in 2017 in building construction can actually have caused this disaster.

    We have the right to demand that this is remedied as soon as the details of what is required are known. Regardless of cost.

    Ask yourself the question : if you lived in a tower block that has undergone this type of renovation would you feel safe and happy to carry on living there ?
  • I'm sure all experts are agreed there has been a massive failure in the fire protection at Grenfell - all concerned parties need to be involved in improving our fire regulations.

    This isn't simply a matter of cost it's also about neglect from Governments both Labour and Conservative in not being proactive enough in reviewing regulations to make them fit for purpose. Building techniques change and if the regulations are not kept up to date then there will be problems.

    We need some leadership not the constant passing the buck and blame game that we are witnessing.

    How can we make things better?
  • Redskin said:

    Can't believe we have so many wankers as Charlton fans,trying to score political points when a tragedy such as this is still unraveling before us.

    Beggars believe.

    Sadly, it doesn't beggar belief: it has become entirely predictable and mirrors the 'Terrorist Attacks' formula. A couple of pages of 'RIP to the victims' followed by rafts of knee-jerk conjecture, insensitivity and the ever tiresome political point scoring by the same ever tiresome protagonists.
    The comments of the firemen on here, along with those of Addickted are welcome 'relief' if there can be such a thing in the light of such an awful tragedy.
    I think some sort of debate is inevitable given the size of the failing here - this is a forum and all different views will appear. I'm sure everyone on here is upset and nobody wants this to happen again.

    It's a free country isn't it?
  • Sponsored links:


  • What frustrates more than anything is our government whatever political party has been in power has neglected these properties and people for decades by denying the funding for the maintenance people to carry out the job properly yet we can budget/spend £60 million a year checking for water on the fecking moon
  • Redskin said:

    Can't believe we have so many wankers as Charlton fans,trying to score political points when a tragedy such as this is still unraveling before us.

    Beggars believe.

    Sadly, it doesn't beggar belief: it has become entirely predictable and mirrors the 'Terrorist Attacks' formula. A couple of pages of 'RIP to the victims' followed by rafts of knee-jerk conjecture, insensitivity and the ever tiresome political point scoring by the same ever tiresome protagonists.
    The comments of the firemen on here, along with those of Addickted are welcome 'relief' if there can be such a thing in the light of such an awful tragedy.
    I think some sort of debate is inevitable given the size of the failing here - this is a forum and all different views will appear. I'm sure everyone on here is upset and nobody wants this to happen again.

    It's a free country isn't it?
    I wasn't saying the subject shouldn't be debated, rather that the nature of it was entirely predictable.
  • What frustrates more than anything is our government whatever political party has been in power has neglected these properties and people for decades by denying the funding for the maintenance people to carry out the job properly yet we can budget/spend £60 million a year checking for water on the fecking moon

    Absolute rubbish.

    Funding is not an issue. Who do you think pays for the servicing and maintenance of the fire safety equipment at blocks like this? It's the residents through their service charge.
  • Met reporting 30 dead, update by live news on sky
  • BBC says that Mrs May was visiting those injured this morning.
  • edited June 2017
    12 remain in critical care. The police believe that the number will be increased to the deceased. I pray for all those affected.
  • edited June 2017
    Addickted said:

    What frustrates more than anything is our government whatever political party has been in power has neglected these properties and people for decades by denying the funding for the maintenance people to carry out the job properly yet we can budget/spend £60 million a year checking for water on the fecking moon

    Absolute rubbish.

    Funding is not an issue. Who do you think pays for the servicing and maintenance of the fire safety equipment at blocks like this? It's the residents through their service charge.
    I think it is more complicated than that and not a reference to specific fire safety equipment. Because they may pay through their service charges -but it doesn't mean corners were not cut by somebody. It doesn't mean they were either. Let's see what comes out of it before we say one person is talking rubbish and another isn't. I think putting these things out there demonstrates that angry people want answers which is understandable and they shouldn't be shot down for it because some of these questions require a proper answer.

    I'm sure the residents who voiced concerns to meetings on 19 occasions and were seemingly ignored, were not experts and they may have been ignored for what seemed valid reasons at the time, but if we are not open to people voicing their concerns which should be looked at and found to be right or wrong, we may be guilty of one of the things we need to learn from this. One thing seems to be an issue to me is that many fire safety experts may not be as expert as they should be. Not including you in that, I mean at the very top on the very technical side of modelling of how fires spread - the people who seem to have missed clues not just in this country but abroad from previous incidents. Simply because we can all agree that this building should not have gone up as fast as it did and there inevitably has to be failings of some kind behind it.
  • Yes, good insight Nick. You sound like your know your onions. Head up Mr. x


  • Sponsored links:


  • Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections.
    Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.
  • iainment said:

    Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections.
    Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.

    Same here. Some residents refusing to remove stuff from the stairs.
  • iainment said:

    Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections.
    Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.

    Same here. Some residents refusing to remove stuff from the stairs.
    It's amazing that they do that this week isn't it. I have the same so we're now going to use injunctions against repeat offenders. And then notices, probably NOSPS.
  • iainment said:

    iainment said:

    Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections.
    Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.

    Same here. Some residents refusing to remove stuff from the stairs.
    It's amazing that they do that this week isn't it. I have the same so we're now going to use injunctions against repeat offenders. And then notices, probably NOSPS.
    Cant you just chuck it down the rubbish chute?
  • IdleHans said:

    iainment said:

    iainment said:

    Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections.
    Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.

    Same here. Some residents refusing to remove stuff from the stairs.
    It's amazing that they do that this week isn't it. I have the same so we're now going to use injunctions against repeat offenders. And then notices, probably NOSPS.
    Cant you just chuck it down the rubbish chute?
    Fraid not. I've been told this morning `but you can get round it' and `where am I sposed to put it'.
  • I once had the role as fire safety officer for a private school that had about 80 boarders.

    I had a constant battle with the boarding staff to take combustables and tripping hazards out of the protected escape routes. I was constantly removing wedges from fire doors.

    My boss also fought me on just about every turn, lied to the SMT and kept me away from the rare upgrades that were done.

    The whole focus of their safeguarding was on stopping kiddy fiddlers rather than protecting lives. A balance is always needed.

    I did make inroads but walked away. I took the role very seriously, I wonder what those staff are thinking of their actions now?

    For the sake of their charges, I trust that they have had a rethink along with other like minded people in authority.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!