Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections. Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.
Same here. Some residents refusing to remove stuff from the stairs.
It's amazing that they do that this week isn't it. I have the same so we're now going to use injunctions against repeat offenders. And then notices, probably NOSPS.
Our asset management teams are checking everything today. We've been given a crib sheet for FAQs. Luckily all our FRAs are up to date and all the dry risers etc have up to date valid inspections. Still been a bit fraught though with some residents.
Same here. Some residents refusing to remove stuff from the stairs.
It's amazing that they do that this week isn't it. I have the same so we're now going to use injunctions against repeat offenders. And then notices, probably NOSPS.
A Tort Notice is the best way to go - then you can remove the stuff yourselves and recharge them.
I've just come to a remote office where the Directors have called me for an update and make their demands.
As I walk in, I find one of the fire doors wedged open with a fire extinguisher. I still can't believe such influential people who should know better are just ignoring the elephant in the room.
Just had to turn down interview requests from BBC Asian Network and RTE. I get all the big hitters!
What frustrates more than anything is our government whatever political party has been in power has neglected these properties and people for decades by denying the funding for the maintenance people to carry out the job properly yet we can budget/spend £60 million a year checking for water on the fecking moon
Absolute rubbish.
Funding is not an issue. Who do you think pays for the servicing and maintenance of the fire safety equipment at blocks like this? It's the residents through their service charge.
I think it is more complicated than that and not a reference to specific fire safety equipment. Because they may pay through their service charges -but it doesn't mean corners were not cut by somebody. It doesn't mean they were either. Let's see what comes out of it before we say one person is talking rubbish and another isn't. I think putting these things out there demonstrates that angry people want answers which is understandable and they shouldn't be shot down for it because some of these questions require a proper answer.
I'm sure the residents who voiced concerns to meetings on 19 occasions and were seemingly ignored, were not experts and they may have been ignored for what seemed valid reasons at the time, but if we are not open to people voicing their concerns which should be looked at and found to be right or wrong, we may be guilty of one of the things we need to learn from this. One thing seems to be an issue to me is that many fire safety experts may not be as expert as they should be. Not including you in that, I mean at the very top on the very technical side of modelling of how fires spread - the people who seem to have missed clues not just in this country but abroad from previous incidents. Simply because we can all agree that this building should not have gone up as fast as it did and there inevitably has to be failings of some kind behind it.
No corners should be cut and processes should be in place to ensure compliance with all facets of BS9999 and Approved Document B.
We audit on a monthly basis and any work to fire safety equipment is recorded both electronically and on the site. Any alterations to M&E equipment needs to be certified and Contractors do not get paid until we get the certification.
Of all the Fire Modelling I've seen, including that at Bricket Wood - where all building material research and certification is carried out in the UK - and at the National Fire College in Morton In Marsh, I have never seen anything like this. I've seen various multi seated fires in high rise modelled, but none have reacted like this. Even the twin towers didn't burn like this block did and that was fuelled by hundreds of gallons of kerosene.
I've just come to a remote office where the Directors have called me for an update and make their demands.
As I walk in, I find one of the fire doors wedged open with a fire extinguisher. I still can't believe such influential people who should know better are just ignoring the elephant in the room.
Just had to turn down interview requests from BBC Asian Network and RTE. I get all the big hitters!
You should have told them you were fielding a Q&A on Britain's biggest football forum.
It is clear that your residents should feel assured and safe, but I dont think any of us can say that applies to all. You have said you are sure a fire in one of your buildings wouldn't spread like at Grenfall which does you credit, but it must be the case that the person responsible for Grenfall couldn't have said that. I think that is why it is legitimate for us non-experts to ask questions - some will be stupid of course, but I don't think anybody should feel like they can't raise points and ask questions in fear of them being stupid.
It is clear cost cutting does not occur when it comes to the safety of your buildings, but if what is being widely reported is true, opting for materials that cost £2 less than the Flame retardant ones surely can only be cost cutting. Of course the reasons for this may be wide and varied. But we should seek to find out what they are to learn lessons. Also might be useful to see how those like you who manage with excellent practice do so. You are critical of your management, which could be an issue for people not as competent as you who might be influenced by managers who do not understand.
@Addicted as you've said about the grief from water companies guaranteeing constant water supply. I would imagine another issue is these systems being set off intermittently sets the doubters? Is there a system that can be activated by the fire service and the fire service only on arrival? I guess what I'm saying is that the network is set up and the water to it arrives from a hydrant on the firemen's activation? Know that wouldn't be much use for individual properties but in circumstances like Wednesdays at least there would be someway of getting water to the top floors?
Being by my own admission a non expert, I would imagine sprinklers need to be activated quickly and localised for them to be any use. How does the sprinkler system in The Shard work? - that might be a good starting point.
I've just come to a remote office where the Directors have called me for an update and make their demands.
As I walk in, I find one of the fire doors wedged open with a fire extinguisher. I still can't believe such influential people who should know better are just ignoring the elephant in the room.
Just had to turn down interview requests from BBC Asian Network and RTE. I get all the big hitters!
My late father was a very senior officer in the London Fire Brigade and specialised in fire prevention for much of his career.
He fought a continual uphill battle against the management forces you have described and politicians both blue and red. In short the attitude was if we can't see something tangible why spend the money?
Once he retired from the London Fire Brigade he became a fire consultant and met with various 'building professionals' regarding fire safety matters. As he was obviously older these jumped up upstarts would say something to him along the lines of 'times have changed this is not how the legislation is meant to be interpreted in the modern world.' He would politely reply 'well actually I was the one who wrote the legislation and it is exactly how it is meant to be interpreted in the modern world.'
He achieved a lot in his lifetime, despite much opposition, and was awarded the QFSM (Queen's Fire Service Medal) but as a boy I vividly recall him saying, after the collapse of Ronan Point in 1968 following a gas explosion, perhaps they'll take the opportunity now to ensure that 'these damned Tower Blocks' (he didn't like them) will have sprinkler systems fitted in future.
It obviously didn't happen and that is my point in boring you all with this. It's not 'just the Tories' it goes back 50 years despite the best efforts of people like my late father and @Addickted .
@MuttleyCAFC : No such thing as a stupid question, unless someone is deliberately taking the pi$$. Although (as we have seen at Charlton in recent years) there are sometimes stupid answers, especially if someone is trying to save face! Not relevant to this thread, however.
Sprinkler heads are very robust and operate on a tried and tested principal. All systems I work with will only operate when 68 C (red rating) is hit and I've never known a failure or false alarm. Sometimes mechanical systems are still more reliable than electronic! All sprinkler heads are independent so even in a flat, a fire in a lounge will not operate the sprinklers in the bedrooms in the same flat.
I think we know that if the block didn't have sprinklers under the Tories, it didn't have sprinklers under previous administrations either. Legislation may have been watered down under previous administrations. We can't be afraid to raise these questions for fearing they may be political. We should never raise them to make political points though, but sometimes only the individual will know their motivation.
It is clear that your residents should feel assured and safe, but I dont think any of us can say that applies to all. You have said you are sure a fire in one of your buildings wouldn't spread like at Grenfall which does you credit, but it must be the case that the person responsible for Grenfall couldn't have said that. I think that is why it is legitimate for us non-experts to ask questions - some will be stupid of course, but I don't think anybody should feel like they can't raise points and ask questions in fear of them being stupid.
It is clear cost cutting does not occur when it comes to the safety of your buildings, but if what is being widely reported is true, opting for materials that cost £2 less than the Flame retardant ones surely can only be cost cutting. Of course the reasons for this may be wide and varied. But we should seek to find out what they are to learn lessons. Also might be useful to see how those like you who manage with excellent practice do so. You are critical of your management, which could be an issue for people not as competent as you who might be influenced by managers who do not understand.
Is that fair?
I'm not critical of my management. They are fine as long as they leave me to manage my team accordingly, provide me with the funding that is required - they always do - and actually trust me to get on with my job.
I know some are only trying to help but I'm not sure how many times I've had to tell some the same amount of information or provide specific data.
A lot of fire safety is 'guidance' and best practice and some people seem to struggle to understand this. For instance I've developed a suitable fire action notice for six different tenures/types of building. LFB have approved it and requested if they could pass this onto other Housing Associations for them to use. I do get a buzz walking into a building owned by another HA and seeing my Fire Action Notices in different Corporate colours.
“The Sun wants to make it clear that no reporter has ‘impersonated’ any family members.
“The Sun was in contact with one of the people injured in the Grenfell fire, who provided a detailed phone interview for the newspaper. We then visited him in hospital to get a further interview and photos.
“On arrival the Sun reporter and photographer made hospital staff aware that they were present and had been in touch with the contact. However we were informed the contact had changed his mind on the interview and the Sun promptly left the hospital. We completely refute any accusation that our employees acted inappropriately.”
It is clear that your residents should feel assured and safe, but I dont think any of us can say that applies to all. You have said you are sure a fire in one of your buildings wouldn't spread like at Grenfall which does you credit, but it must be the case that the person responsible for Grenfall couldn't have said that. I think that is why it is legitimate for us non-experts to ask questions - some will be stupid of course, but I don't think anybody should feel like they can't raise points and ask questions in fear of them being stupid.
It is clear cost cutting does not occur when it comes to the safety of your buildings, but if what is being widely reported is true, opting for materials that cost £2 less than the Flame retardant ones surely can only be cost cutting. Of course the reasons for this may be wide and varied. But we should seek to find out what they are to learn lessons. Also might be useful to see how those like you who manage with excellent practice do so. You are critical of your management, which could be an issue for people not as competent as you who might be influenced by managers who do not understand.
Is that fair?
I'm not critical of my management. They are fine as long as they leave me to manage my team accordingly, provide me with the funding that is required - they always do - and actually trust me to get on with my job.
I know some are only trying to help but I'm not sure how many times I've had to tell some the same amount of information or provide specific data.
A lot of fire safety is 'guidance' and best practice and some people seem to struggle to understand this. For instance I've developed a suitable fire action notice for six different tenures/types of building. LFB have approved it and requested if they could pass this onto other Housing Associations for them to use. I do get a buzz walking into a building owned by another HA and seeing my Fire Action Notices in different Corporate colours.
Could I just ask the following ? If it transpires that a block is clad in the same material as Grenfell which meets existing fire regulations yet appears to present a huge fire risk then what can someone in your position reasonably do.
It seems unlikely that regulations will change or be reviewed in the near future so where does that leave those responsible for fire protection?
dont know if related by above my office ( high street kensington ) about a 15 min walk away from the tower there has been a helicopter hovering for about 2 hours. possible news crews?
Comments
As I walk in, I find one of the fire doors wedged open with a fire extinguisher. I still can't believe such influential people who should know better are just ignoring the elephant in the room.
Just had to turn down interview requests from BBC Asian Network and RTE. I get all the big hitters!
We audit on a monthly basis and any work to fire safety equipment is recorded both electronically and on the site. Any alterations to M&E equipment needs to be certified and Contractors do not get paid until we get the certification.
Of all the Fire Modelling I've seen, including that at Bricket Wood - where all building material research and certification is carried out in the UK - and at the National Fire College in Morton In Marsh, I have never seen anything like this. I've seen various multi seated fires in high rise modelled, but none have reacted like this. Even the twin towers didn't burn like this block did and that was fuelled by hundreds of gallons of kerosene.
It is clear cost cutting does not occur when it comes to the safety of your buildings, but if what is being widely reported is true, opting for materials that cost £2 less than the Flame retardant ones surely can only be cost cutting. Of course the reasons for this may be wide and varied. But we should seek to find out what they are to learn lessons. Also might be useful to see how those like you who manage with excellent practice do so. You are critical of your management, which could be an issue for people not as competent as you who might be influenced by managers who do not understand.
Is that fair?
Is there a system that can be activated by the fire service and the fire service only on arrival?
I guess what I'm saying is that the network is set up and the water to it arrives from a hydrant on the firemen's activation?
Know that wouldn't be much use for individual properties but in circumstances like Wednesdays at least there would be someway of getting water to the top floors?
He fought a continual uphill battle against the management forces you have described and politicians both blue and red. In short the attitude was if we can't see something tangible why spend the money?
Once he retired from the London Fire Brigade he became a fire consultant and met with various 'building professionals' regarding fire safety matters. As he was obviously older these jumped up upstarts would say something to him along the lines of 'times have changed this is not how the legislation is meant to be interpreted in the modern world.' He would politely reply 'well actually I was the one who wrote the legislation and it is exactly how it is meant to be interpreted in the modern world.'
He achieved a lot in his lifetime, despite much opposition, and was awarded the QFSM (Queen's Fire Service Medal) but as a boy I vividly recall him saying, after the collapse of Ronan Point in 1968 following a gas explosion, perhaps they'll take the opportunity now to ensure that 'these damned Tower Blocks' (he didn't like them) will have sprinkler systems fitted in future.
It obviously didn't happen and that is my point in boring you all with this. It's not 'just the Tories' it goes back 50 years despite the best efforts of people like my late father and @Addickted .
Although (as we have seen at Charlton in recent years) there are sometimes stupid answers, especially if someone is trying to save face! Not relevant to this thread, however.
I know some are only trying to help but I'm not sure how many times I've had to tell some the same amount of information or provide specific data.
A lot of fire safety is 'guidance' and best practice and some people seem to struggle to understand this. For instance I've developed a suitable fire action notice for six different tenures/types of building. LFB have approved it and requested if they could pass this onto other Housing Associations for them to use. I do get a buzz walking into a building owned by another HA and seeing my Fire Action Notices in different Corporate colours.
One hopes that there is no foundation to the allegation made in the following report.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/sun-journalist-grenfell-tower-victim-hospital
“The Sun was in contact with one of the people injured in the Grenfell fire, who provided a detailed phone interview for the newspaper. We then visited him in hospital to get a further interview and photos.
“On arrival the Sun reporter and photographer made hospital staff aware that they were present and had been in touch with the contact. However we were informed the contact had changed his mind on the interview and the Sun promptly left the hospital. We completely refute any accusation that our employees acted inappropriately.”
It seems unlikely that regulations will change or be reviewed in the near future so where does that leave those responsible for fire protection?