I agree hoof-it_up_to_benty. Yes it is justified the angry protest but looking at some of them I think they have that mob rule mentality. Big crowd good excuse to get in and have a ruck. Sadly I fear a few windows will be smashed by these "yobs".
Spent all day today and fly tipped building waste fire in rural Kent, two of our Technical Rescue/USAR were with us providing a Bobcat to move the concrete and RSJs. They are due on scene Monday and Tuesday to take part in the removal of remains, I think they're amazing for doing it not sure I could.
My big fear is that a riot will kick off at some stage - sad state of affairs. Police stuck in the middle of all of this.
I think that's not unlikely. Hottest day of the year tomorrow; angry, homeless people, terrible lack of support and information from the council.
Plus those who want to stir things up and fucking dumb arse Mockney celebs like Lily Allen getting involved. Social media can be used to mobilise people quickly and then it can escalate from there.
Spent all day today and fly tipped building waste fire in rural Kent, two of our Technical Rescue/USAR were with us providing a Bobcat to move the concrete and RSJs. They are due on scene Monday and Tuesday to take part in the removal of remains, I think they're amazing for doing it not sure I could.
Everyone pulled out of building atm cfgs,no usart,nothing. Just dont know how the building is going to be stabilised if im honest
Bit pointless going to the council offices on a Friday afternoon, the only people there will be admin staff. Anyone with any real power will either be at the 18th hole by now or on a plane to some sunny spit of beach.
They are very angry people - it was clear watching channel 4 news yesterday - I think more could have been done to difuse this in the early stages - there is too much let's wait and see and whilst not everything could be addressed confusion and perceived buck -passing was going to be an issue. I mentioned yesterday that it seemed there was a reluctance to give estimated numbers of the dead - I am sure this was innocent - but it was clearly playing wrong with angry people who every time they look up, they see a smouldering tower of death. The mood and anger just wasn't read properly. Now common sense has to happen. I'm sure some reassurances can be given around the demands. Calm and cool heads are needed.
and to be fair to them all no-one from the council have come out and supported them publicly and Therese May's appearance was piss poor.
The council needed somebody with the guts to address them with promises and re-assurance from the beginning. The lack of support from the council has made this situation worse. All we have heard from them is the leader making a statement blaming the residents!
so the people that work in the council offices are now targets !!!! ive worked in that building many times and the vast majority of people there have fuck all to do with Housing ---even if they do these are the poor feckers trying to sort out emergency housing etc for those poor souls who have lost everything-----------------if those offices get attcked who will go back to work or maybe they wont even have a place to carry out those duties
I don't think her addressing angry crowds will do anything positive and do undertsand why she didn't see families yesterday, but actions speak louder than words and a lot of the actions are not instantly finding their way to people who who need support and reassurance now. I think how angry I feel and you have to multiply that many many times. May isn't personally to blame though, but we can really look after these people now and that should start from now. No beurocracy - targetted and generous help!
so the people that work in the council offices are now targets !!!! ive worked in that building many times and the vast majority of people there have fuck all to do with Housing ---even if they do these are the poor feckers trying to sort out emergency housing etc for those poor souls who have lost everything-----------------if those offices get attcked who will go back to work or maybe they wont even have a place to carry out those duties
Everyone else in government has gone into hiding so these angry people have had nowhere else to turn to vent their frustrations.
so the people that work in the council offices are now targets !!!! ive worked in that building many times and the vast majority of people there have fuck all to do with Housing ---even if they do these are the poor feckers trying to sort out emergency housing etc for those poor souls who have lost everything-----------------if those offices get attcked who will go back to work or maybe they wont even have a place to carry out those duties
It's not good is it. Having said that I fully understand why a lot of people are very angry. I doubt the staff are in danger but that's easy for me to say from here.
The Mark Duggan incident a few years ago people had somewhere to direct their anger. Not quite so easy here. Let's hope it pans out well.
They are at a big risk if they go in and put a "barrier" up between the protesters and the council offices they risk inflaming the situation further.
Absolutely agree with this. (Even if it was a very unfortunate turn of phrase).
This situation needs very, very careful control. There should be loads of police there - but deploying loads of police might aggravate people's tensions.
These people are at breaking point. They're going through the most horrendous time imaginable. And they're relying on an organisation to provide social housing for them - but that organisation appears to be chaotic at best and non-existant at worst.
I feel for every person wrapped up in this: people made homeless and having lost everything; people working for the council, trying to get their jobs done; the police who want to make everyone safe, not act as a buffer between the council and people doing their work; the fire service, each and every one of whom is an exhausted her, I am sure. Someone has to provide some leadership.
These people are desperate and angry - we have to understand what they have ben through. These next hours are important -- the government has pledged money is no object so get the helpers and assurances out there now.
Spent all day today and fly tipped building waste fire in rural Kent, two of our Technical Rescue/USAR were with us providing a Bobcat to move the concrete and RSJs. They are due on scene Monday and Tuesday to take part in the removal of remains, I think they're amazing for doing it not sure I could.
Everyone pulled out of building atm cfgs,no usart,nothing. Just dont know how the building is going to be stabilised if im honest
Walked past the town hall tonight, few people with faces covered etc, a full investigation has been announced today, with lily allens comments on the death toll, they have to confirm all deaths!!, It will take a Long time due to the amount of time the fire was they have to do forensic checks im sure, these things aren't going to happen overnight, ripping open council doors and storming the building doesn't help of course I can understand there anger!.
Grief will, and is turning to due to the real or perceived lack of official support from the authorities.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is not the U.K.plc finest hour.
With regard to your comment re:absence of coordinated assistance I cannot speak for all other authorities but at least two of my certain knowledge have cut back on staff in emergency planning departments. I would expect that's a very common response when presented with making savings i.e. councils will cut the posts that are least likely to cause local objections and adverse media attention.
You may be right about cuts, I don't know but my point is about poor management.
It doesn't matter what their funding levels are, the leader of the council or the very highly paid CEO should be bringing in staff from neighbouring boroughs or demanding the government supply civil servants or military administrators to organise on the ground.
They should be picking up the ball and running with it, not sitting in the bar with their heads in their hands.
No excuse whatsoever for lack of visible action. I can see the anger only getting worse and the politicians who are not seen to act will regret it.
I think your response says more about your attitude to local authorities and the people who work for them than anything approaching the reality of the situation. Probably best we leave it there tbh.
Seems that I am not the only one with this opinion. Care to stand by or explain your comments @Bournemouth Addick ?
Grief will, and is turning to due to the real or perceived lack of official support from the authorities.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is not the U.K.plc finest hour.
With regard to your comment re:absence of coordinated assistance I cannot speak for all other authorities but at least two of my certain knowledge have cut back on staff in emergency planning departments. I would expect that's a very common response when presented with making savings i.e. councils will cut the posts that are least likely to cause local objections and adverse media attention.
You may be right about cuts, I don't know but my point is about poor management.
It doesn't matter what their funding levels are, the leader of the council or the very highly paid CEO should be bringing in staff from neighbouring boroughs or demanding the government supply civil servants or military administrators to organise on the ground.
They should be picking up the ball and running with it, not sitting in the bar with their heads in their hands.
No excuse whatsoever for lack of visible action. I can see the anger only getting worse and the politicians who are not seen to act will regret it.
I think your response says more about your attitude to local authorities and the people who work for them than anything approaching the reality of the situation. Probably best we leave it there tbh.
Seems that I am not the only one with this opinion. Care to stand by or explain your comments @Bournemouth Addick ?
Not to you no I don't. If your starting point is that the "very highly paid" Chief Exec et al is washing their hands of the matter and getting pissed in a bar instead I doubt anything I might say is going to cut it.
It is clear that your residents should feel assured and safe, but I dont think any of us can say that applies to all. You have said you are sure a fire in one of your buildings wouldn't spread like at Grenfall which does you credit, but it must be the case that the person responsible for Grenfall couldn't have said that. I think that is why it is legitimate for us non-experts to ask questions - some will be stupid of course, but I don't think anybody should feel like they can't raise points and ask questions in fear of them being stupid.
It is clear cost cutting does not occur when it comes to the safety of your buildings, but if what is being widely reported is true, opting for materials that cost £2 less than the Flame retardant ones surely can only be cost cutting. Of course the reasons for this may be wide and varied. But we should seek to find out what they are to learn lessons. Also might be useful to see how those like you who manage with excellent practice do so. You are critical of your management, which could be an issue for people not as competent as you who might be influenced by managers who do not understand.
Is that fair?
I'm not critical of my management. They are fine as long as they leave me to manage my team accordingly, provide me with the funding that is required - they always do - and actually trust me to get on with my job.
I know some are only trying to help but I'm not sure how many times I've had to tell some the same amount of information or provide specific data.
A lot of fire safety is 'guidance' and best practice and some people seem to struggle to understand this. For instance I've developed a suitable fire action notice for six different tenures/types of building. LFB have approved it and requested if they could pass this onto other Housing Associations for them to use. I do get a buzz walking into a building owned by another HA and seeing my Fire Action Notices in different Corporate colours.
Could I just ask the following ? If it transpires that a block is clad in the same material as Grenfell which meets existing fire regulations yet appears to present a huge fire risk then what can someone in your position reasonably do.
It seems unlikely that regulations will change or be reviewed in the near future so where does that leave those responsible for fire protection?
I would ensure destructive survey and full third party testing of the material for compliance to the Building Regulations. I have already arranged this for blocks with similar cladding.
If I told my CEO the cladding should be replaced, he would make it happen. And then we'd sue the arse of whoever installed it.
If he didn't I would speak to the Fire Brigade an insist on a prohibition notice being served.
Grief will, and is turning to due to the real or perceived lack of official support from the authorities.
People on the ground complain of little or no presence from officials. I would expect one person organising the heroic voluntarily efforts, making sure that all centres can contact that person. That could be done by an obvious presence at each centre.
Clearly the residents have been very let down and someone will hopefully answer in due course.
May should have at least met some residents in private and ensured practical support on the ground. That's what a good leader does. She will rightly be badly thought of for her perceived lack of compassion.
Just seen a poor fella who's parents and siblings where on the top floor. He too was voicing anger at not being told what has happened to them and accused the authorities of not bothering to find out. Clearly this is not a fair accusation but more support would help I am sure.
The lead up to the deaths seems to be a total f***k up. The way ordinary people have stepped up to the mark is wonderful but the local and national government's appartent inaction in the aftermath is looking beyond words.
This is not the U.K.plc finest hour.
With regard to your comment re:absence of coordinated assistance I cannot speak for all other authorities but at least two of my certain knowledge have cut back on staff in emergency planning departments. I would expect that's a very common response when presented with making savings i.e. councils will cut the posts that are least likely to cause local objections and adverse media attention.
You may be right about cuts, I don't know but my point is about poor management.
It doesn't matter what their funding levels are, the leader of the council or the very highly paid CEO should be bringing in staff from neighbouring boroughs or demanding the government supply civil servants or military administrators to organise on the ground.
They should be picking up the ball and running with it, not sitting in the bar with their heads in their hands.
No excuse whatsoever for lack of visible action. I can see the anger only getting worse and the politicians who are not seen to act will regret it.
I think your response says more about your attitude to local authorities and the people who work for them than anything approaching the reality of the situation. Probably best we leave it there tbh.
Seems that I am not the only one with this opinion. Care to stand by or explain your comments @Bournemouth Addick ?
Not to you no I don't. If your starting point is that the "very highly paid" Chief Exec et al is washing their hands of the matter and getting pissed in a bar instead I doubt anything I might say is going to cut it.
I didn't realise that you commuted so far into work.
Comments
What a mess....
The Mark Duggan incident a few years ago people had somewhere to direct their anger. Not quite so easy here. Let's hope it pans out well.
This situation needs very, very careful control. There should be loads of police there - but deploying loads of police might aggravate people's tensions.
These people are at breaking point. They're going through the most horrendous time imaginable. And they're relying on an organisation to provide social housing for them - but that organisation appears to be chaotic at best and non-existant at worst.
I feel for every person wrapped up in this: people made homeless and having lost everything; people working for the council, trying to get their jobs done; the police who want to make everyone safe, not act as a buffer between the council and people doing their work; the fire service, each and every one of whom is an exhausted her, I am sure. Someone has to provide some leadership.
If I told my CEO the cladding should be replaced, he would make it happen. And then we'd sue the arse of whoever installed it.
If he didn't I would speak to the Fire Brigade an insist on a prohibition notice being served.