When are sprinklers goingto be installed in all high rise blocks? I am getting angrier this has not been announced yet!
Maybe they ought to complete a preliminary investigation first.
The UK has thousands of tower blocks (presumably mainly without sprinklers) and thus fires must be a daily occurrence across the country yet only in this case did it have such catastrophic consequences.
They have a report on their desks saying all tower blocks need sprinklers - that will do
It needs a thorough cost benefit analysis like any spending.
My rough estimate of cost: 4,000 blocks x 150 flats x £1,500 per flat = £900m.
This is the same as 36,000 new police officers at £25k pa which might save many more lives (in various ways).
It's really not as straightforward as you make out.
I would hope the sprinkler systems last more than one year!
Please stop trying to score political points. Show some respect.
I'm not, but the political response to a disaster of this magnitude is allowed to be debated.
I'm afraid you are and yes it is allowed, but it's not appropriate imo. It's too early, people are still unaware of what has happened to their loved ones.
I manage the fire safety for 2,300 social housing 'blocks' 17 of which are over ten storeys which cover every possible tenure you could imagine.
That involves managing the risk assessment programme along with re-assessments, managing and programming all the hundreds of actions raised as a result of the assessments, both passive and active works, as well as managing the servicing and maintenance contract for all the fire safety equipment.
I've spent over £750k on fire safety SIGNAGE alone in the last five years. If I've needed urgent funding due to unforeseen issues, I've been given every penny I need.
Along with training staff, working with five different regional Brigades and producing monthly stats and figures to ensure we are not only compliant with current legislation, but are hitting our 'targets'.
Those who seem to think a lower level of fire safety is provided to social housing residents are just talking out of their arse. Part B of the Building Regulations and BS 9999 apply whether you are a King or a pauper. The same standards are there for everyone, with no exceptions.
We are one of the top performing associations in the Country with regards fire safety and I'm proud to say I've never been served with any enforcement notification for any of our stock since I've been in the role.
Could I guarantee one of my refurbished high rise blocks couldn't burst into flames like Grenfell Towers? Well I'm 99% comfortable that they wouldn't.
But 99% isn't a total guarantee and this fire and the response of so many people looking for someone to blame at such an early stage in the disaster has made me realise I don't need to take all this shit.
My current career is dedicated to providing the best fire safety I am able to do, to all my residents regardless ofsex, colour, religion or wealth. I suspect whoever is carrying out a similar role at KCTMO does the same.
I think if you can't take this 'shit' you should talk to your employer rather than posters on CL
Why don't you keep your nose out of something you know next to nothing about and try to avoid telling me how I should feel about an incident close to my heart that has shocked me to my roots.
And yes, I will be talking to my employer to let them know how uncomfortable I feel about my role now. I have to rely on so many different people from assessor to specialist sub contractors to protect the lives of my residents and tokeep me out of prison.
Even within my own organisation, suddenly everyone has become an expert of fire safety, an expert on fire engineering and an expert on fire forensics.
And like some of your idiotic statements, they are getting right on my tits.
When are sprinklers goingto be installed in all high rise blocks? I am getting angrier this has not been announced yet!
Maybe they ought to complete a preliminary investigation first.
The UK has thousands of tower blocks (presumably mainly without sprinklers) and thus fires must be a daily occurrence across the country yet only in this case did it have such catastrophic consequences.
They have a report on their desks saying all tower blocks need sprinklers - that will do
It needs a thorough cost benefit analysis like any spending.
My rough estimate of cost: 4,000 blocks x 150 flats x £1,500 per flat = £900m.
This is the same as 36,000 new police officers at £25k pa which might save many more lives (in various ways).
It's really not as straightforward as you make out.
I would hope the sprinkler systems last more than one year!
Fair point but the general concept stands - we always have to make difficult choices between equally desirable outcomes.
When are sprinklers goingto be installed in all high rise blocks? I am getting angrier this has not been announced yet!
Maybe they ought to complete a preliminary investigation first.
The UK has thousands of tower blocks (presumably mainly without sprinklers) and thus fires must be a daily occurrence across the country yet only in this case did it have such catastrophic consequences.
They have a report on their desks saying all tower blocks need sprinklers - that will do
It needs a thorough cost benefit analysis like any spending.
My rough estimate of cost: 4,000 blocks x 150 flats x £1,500 per flat = £900m.
This is the same as 36,000 new police officers at £25k pa which might save many more lives (in various ways).
It's really not as straightforward as you make out.
I would hope the sprinkler systems last more than one year!
Fair point but the general concept stands - we always have to make difficult choices between equally desirable outcomes.
Fair point? It's a f*cking immense point as it blows your financial comparison out of the window.
Difficult choices? Hmmm people safe in their homes OR safe on the streets. As one of the most developed and wealthy countries on earth I do not see it unreasonable to change that OR to an AND.
Please stop trying to score political points. Show some respect.
I'm not, but the political response to a disaster of this magnitude is allowed to be debated.
I'm afraid you are and yes it is allowed, but it's not appropriate imo. It's too early, people are still unaware of what has happened to their loved ones.
Agreed. I suspect when the dust settles and the full facts are available, there will be many failings from many different organizations and individuals that will have contributed to this and that there will be elements of the response that maybe could have been done better too. I am sure that will include the actions of some politicians before and after the tragic events, and there will be a time and place to ask questions of those organizations/individuals.
Until we have all the facts, I think a lot of people would do well to shut up and let the process take it course.
Only three things that people need to be calling for right now.
1) That the survivors who have been displaced are re-homed as soon as possible and with as much dignity as possible. 2) That there is a thorough, open and frank investigation, free from political bias and interference, into what happened. 3) That the findings of that investigation are followed by a thorough review of the management of fire safety in these buildings, up and down the land and around the world with improvements made wherever possible in order to minimise the chances of this happening again.
Near the start if this thread, there were a couple of posts praising the way the aviation industry handles disasters in the spirit of universal learning and improvement across the industry, and people wondered why that attitude doesn't happen elsewhere. Well, imo, we're seeing a snap shot of why. People are angry, quite understandably so, but even people almost entirely unaffected by what happened along with, gawd bless 'em, the media are up screaming for accountability and pointing the finger of blame in any which way they can. It is entirely counter productive. It makes people shut up shop, go into damage limitation mode, scared for their own reputation, for their job, for their livelihood.
Mistakes will have been made here, but almost certainly not maliciously. Some decision will possibly look reckless in the hindsight of knowing what has happened, but that doesn't mean this was an expected outcome at the time those decisions were made. If people knew things they were doing might lead to 10s of people dying a horrific death then they almost certainly would have changed their action.
If we want the truth to come out, then we need to give it space to come out and not make people fear the repercussions of it.
Please stop trying to score political points. Show some respect.
I'm not, but the political response to a disaster of this magnitude is allowed to be debated.
I'm afraid you are and yes it is allowed, but it's not appropriate imo. It's too early, people are still unaware of what has happened to their loved ones.
Agreed. I suspect when the dust settles and the full facts are available, there will be many failings from many different organizations and individuals that will have contributed to this and that there will be elements of the response that maybe could have been done better too. I am sure that will include the actions of some politicians before and after the tragic events, and there will be a time and place to ask questions of those organizations/individuals.
Until we have all the facts, I think a lot of people would do well to shut up and let the process take it course.
Only three things that people need to be calling for right now.
1) That the survivors who have been displaced are re-homed as soon as possible and with as much dignity as possible. 2) That there is a thorough, open and frank investigation, free from political bias and interference, into what happened. 3) That the findings of that investigation are followed by a thorough review of the management of fire safety in these buildings, up and down the land and around the world with improvements made wherever possible in order to minimise the chances of this happening again.
Near the start if this thread, there were a couple of posts praising the way the aviation industry handles disasters in the spirit of universal learning and improvement across the industry, and people wondered why that attitude doesn't happen elsewhere. Well, imo, we're seeing a snap shot of why. People are angry, quite understandably so, but even people almost entirely unaffected by what happened along with, gawd bless 'em, the media are up screaming for accountability and pointing the finger of blame in any which way they can. It is entirely counter productive. It makes people shut up shop, go into damage limitation mode, scared for their own reputation, for their job, for their livelihood.
Mistakes will have been made here, but almost certainly not maliciously. Some decision will possibly look reckless in the hindsight of knowing what has happened, but that doesn't mean this was an expected outcome at the time those decisions were made. If people knew things they were doing might lead to 10s of people dying a horrific death then they almost certainly would have changed their action.
If we want the truth to come out, then we need to give it space to come out and not make people fear the repercussions of it.
Which is why the airline people just crack on and do it of their own volition. That's why we hear about near misses like drones nearly twatting jumbo jets and they aren't covered up.
You are so right, every walk of life people are covering stuff up and hiding things through fear and it only ever exasperates the situation when the truth comes out. Thankfully I don't have to deal with disciplines involving actual human being or be a police officer. I could give a dozen examples of such things but I don't really need to and like the sensible heads are saying. It isn't really the time.
The media, the fucken media though. I haven't been able to escape flashes of things on the radio or tv that I would only describe as grief mining. They are loving it and I think I'm disgusted by it.
Just to clarify,is this 100% Theresa May's fault or just 99% Theresa May's fault.
Society's fault
I should imagine it's down to the building/fire regulations that permit the use of flammable cladding.
This sort of cladding is not permitted in the US for example.
And ultimately that comes back to politics.
I'm not saying that this has nothing to do with politics. I'm saying that it's too early for people on CL to be starting their political point scoring one upmanship.
This block would have a central alarm system, serviced twice a year and tested on a weekly basis.
Each flat should have a heat detector in their kitchen linked to the alarm system as well as a stand alone smoke detector in their hallway.
The alarm should only sound on the floor and probably the floors above and below, to warn people ON THOSE FLOORS that there is a fire. If they can evacuate the building then they should, if not, then they should stay put as they are in a protected compartment.
The building would have smoke vents operated by smoke detectors on most floors as well as at the top of the protected stairwell. Serviced every year.
The building would have a dry riser from ground to top floor with outlets on every floor. Serviced every year.
The building should have an extensive covering of emergency lights, flick tested monthly (I admit we do not do this as we have over 30,000 emergency lights) and each light has a three hour 'drop test' carried out annually to ensure the batteries last.
Bin chutes should have dampers on them at first floor level. Again, serviced annually.
The common parts would NOT have any fire extinguishers.
A fire action plan should be adjacent to the entrance to the stairwell on every floor along with relevant fire exit, running man, fire door and no smoking signs.
I would then Risk Assess annually to ensure everything was carried out as it should be.
I have no control on what a resident does behind their closed flat door. I upgrade flat doors but am not able to do the same to any leaseholders doors.
I have investigated, studied in great detail and read about high rise fires around the World. I have never seen anything like this.
Decisions on the regs for retrofitting to buildings is ultimately political. That's the only point I was trying to make. Hopefully this disaster will lead to regs that will stop this being repeated.
Decisions on the regs for retrofitting to buildings is ultimately political. That's the only point I was trying to make. Hopefully this disaster will lead to regs that will stop this being repeated.
Any legislation that reduces the risk of unnecessary deaths has got to be a good thing.
Fairly sure this will become a requirement of the Building Regulations sooner rather than later. But they are not retrospective, which is what I fear is the big issue.
This block would have a central alarm system, serviced twice a year and tested on a weekly basis.
Each flat should have a heat detector in their kitchen linked to the alarm system as well as a stand alone smoke detector in their hallway.
The alarm should only sound on the floor and probably the floors above and below, to warn people ON THOSE FLOORS that there is a fire. If they can evacuate the building then they should, if not, then they should stay put as they are in a protected compartment.
The building would have smoke vents operated by smoke detectors on most floors as well as at the top of the protected stairwell. Serviced every year.
The building would have a dry riser from ground to top floor with outlets on every floor. Serviced every year.
The building should have an extensive covering of emergency lights, flick tested monthly (I admit we do not do this as we have over 30,000 emergency lights) and each light has a three hour 'drop test' carried out annually to ensure the batteries last.
Bin chutes should have dampers on them at first floor level. Again, serviced annually.
The common parts would NOT have any fire extinguishers.
A fire action plan should be adjacent to the entrance to the stairwell on every floor along with relevant fire exit, running man, fire door and no smoking signs.
I would then Risk Assess annually to ensure everything was carried out as it should be.
I have no control on what a resident does behind their closed flat door. I upgrade flat doors but am not able to do the same to any leaseholders doors.
I have investigated, studied in great detail and read about high rise fires around the World. I have never seen anything like this.
I can't see how the fire could have spread so quickly if the cladding hadn't been in place - my main concern is whether the relevant authorities can investigate other blocks with a similar finish. This isn't really something that warrants a delay.
The residents of this block have been failed - I don't really see this makes a political point. It's not unreasonable to expect a reasonable degree of protection against fire.
Something has failed and we need action sooner rather than later to prevent this happening again.
In last nights Newsnight they showed a video of a fire on a high rise in France where the similar/same cladding burned/failed. The fire in Dubai at the Casino was with similar cladding too they showed. The fire a Lakanal in Southwark caused deaths because the flats fire protection had been compromised by a refurbishment which had meant fire could spread in between the flats. The recomendations after Lakanal was a review of the fire regs my understanding this is yet to happen. Who would have thought it would be sensible to clad a residential or office building in something inflammable.
I have four 18 storey blocks in Hastings. You can't miss them if you are down there.
They were refurbished in exactly the same way. The cladding specified is of Class 1 standard and would not act as yesterday's fire.
However, we will be carrying out a destructive survey to test and ensure that the cladding installed is actually what was specified as I am unable to say it is with any confidence.
First, RIP all. Unfortunately it appears the numbers will keep growing.
As they have not counted the dead, let alone buried them, perhaps we can keep our emotions in check and give us time to reflect.
Next, the holistic view of fire prevention appears to consist smoke alarms, extinguishers, fire blankets, sprinklers for high rise, fire doors, structural integrity and cladding materials. Many thanks to @cafcfan for his apposite comments on the matter.
I will be taking steps this weekend.
And the politics? Perhaps too soon? Leave it to political leaders like Corbyn to meet the people.
Today we hear of appropriate inquiry etc. But we've had those before after other fires and they all recommend the retro fit of sprinklers. @MuttleyCAFC supplies the link above.
As for cladding containing flammable materials such as plywood, plastic and whatever? Mind boggling! The block was engulfed in flames within 1/2 an hour? I'm not sure any sprinkler system can deal with that. Who the hell allows a load of plastic and plywood to be put up around tower blocks which could be ignited from any single flat?
The cost of remediating any other deathtraps is surely irrelevant. Or are we happy to sit there and twiddle our thumbs awaiting the next inferno? In contrast, how long did it take May after the Borough Market attack to talk of dismantling human rights and deporting suspects?
Three days perhaps?
All blocks throughout the country need checking out and remedial works commissioned. If the work is uneconomical or unaffordable to the owner then they simply have to decommission whilst rehousing the residents.
Tried to avoid a rant but I heard the 2014 speech earlier today on the radio and it was a shocker.
As per my thoughts at the top RIP and thoughts with the families.
Decisions on the regs for retrofitting to buildings is ultimately political. That's the only point I was trying to make. Hopefully this disaster will lead to regs that will stop this being repeated.
Any legislation that reduces the risk of unnecessary deaths has got to be a good thing.
Fairly sure this will become a requirement of the Building Regulations sooner rather than later. But they are not retrospective, which is what I fear is the big issue.
You're right. And I know that for the next while FRAs will have a bigger place in my work. Until the spotlight shifts and something else becomes the local priority. Today I checked all of the blocks I manage and none have new cladding. They're all brick built and untouched. Which is a relief to me. I have 2 colleagues who manage high rise buildings that have been refurbed with external cladding. Their phones don't stop and they have constant callers to the office. Which we all help with. I feel for them and the staff who managed Grenfell at the face to face level.
I have four 18 storey blocks in Hastings. You can't miss them if you are down there.
They were refurbished in exactly the same way. The cladding specified is of Class 1 standard and would not act as yesterday's fire.
However, we will be carrying out a destructive survey to test and ensure that the cladding installed is actually what was specified as I am unable to say it is with any confidence.
I am just concerned that potentially fire regulations are not fit for purpose which is pretty worrying. If it turns out all the regulations were followed at Grenfell and the fire still spread like this then where does this leave us?
It could leave those responsible for fire safety in an impossible situation if specifications are not met. We all rely on trust.....
In this current situation we need to look for solutions if a major problem has been identified. The blame game should not be the main issue.
Queries from residents, both me and my team can manage and reassure.
It's middle management colleagues who are giving me the real grief. At least it's brought this massively important area to the top of the agenda.
As you said, the spotlight will shift when the shit hits the fan over some issue. And I can get back to protecting my residents rather than answering stupid pedantic questions and producing stats and figure which people have no idea of how to interpret.
The key something = I guess - is probably some form of compromised cladding. Again I have seen the Charlton Triangle homes today say the cladding on the Cherry Orchard Estate and the blocks by Charlton house are clad in a completly fire resistant mineral cladding.
Queries from residents, both me and my team can manage and reassure.
It's middle management colleagues who are giving me the real grief. At least it's brought this massively important area to the top of the agenda.
As you said, the spotlight will shift when the shit hits the fan over some issue. And I can get back to protecting my residents rather than answering stupid pedantic questions and producing stats and figure which people have no idea of how to interpret.
That's the trouble - middle managers love to be involved and will argue with you even when they know fuck all. I felt like lamping some twat from a management consultancy who starting giving me advice about how to develop computer software despite having no knowledge on the subject - it's always those least qualified who offer you advice!
I manage the fire safety for 2,300 social housing 'blocks' 17 of which are over ten storeys which cover every possible tenure you could imagine.
That involves managing the risk assessment programme along with re-assessments, managing and programming all the hundreds of actions raised as a result of the assessments, both passive and active works, as well as managing the servicing and maintenance contract for all the fire safety equipment.
I've spent over £750k on fire safety SIGNAGE alone in the last five years. If I've needed urgent funding due to unforeseen issues, I've been given every penny I need.
Along with training staff, working with five different regional Brigades and producing monthly stats and figures to ensure we are not only compliant with current legislation, but are hitting our 'targets'.
Those who seem to think a lower level of fire safety is provided to social housing residents are just talking out of their arse. Part B of the Building Regulations and BS 9999 apply whether you are a King or a pauper. The same standards are there for everyone, with no exceptions.
We are one of the top performing associations in the Country with regards fire safety and I'm proud to say I've never been served with any enforcement notification for any of our stock since I've been in the role.
Could I guarantee one of my refurbished high rise blocks couldn't burst into flames like Grenfell Towers? Well I'm 99% comfortable that they wouldn't.
But 99% isn't a total guarantee and this fire and the response of so many people looking for someone to blame at such an early stage in the disaster has made me realise I don't need to take all this shit.
My current career is dedicated to providing the best fire safety I am able to do, to all my residents regardless ofsex, colour, religion or wealth. I suspect whoever is carrying out a similar role at KCTMO does the same.
I think if you can't take this 'shit' you should talk to your employer rather than posters on CL
Why don't you keep your nose out of something you know next to nothing about and try to avoid telling me how I should feel about an incident close to my heart that has shocked me to my roots.
And yes, I will be talking to my employer to let them know how uncomfortable I feel about my role now. I have to rely on so many different people from assessor to specialist sub contractors to protect the lives of my residents and tokeep me out of prison.
Even within my own organisation, suddenly everyone has become an expert of fire safety, an expert on fire engineering and an expert on fire forensics.
And like some of your idiotic statements, they are getting right on my tits.
I have personally thought that people are jumping on a bandwagon of suddenly believing that there is an extreme amount of blood on someone's hands, without knowing all the facts and how the fire even started.
Fires can start. What your looking at is how to prevent it from spreading as harshly and quickly as it did. That's where potential negligence and where blame can occur.
I really do not like the Tory Government at all but I have seen the phrase "corporate manslaughter" and it can make you think. It's too early to dive into that direction.
We have ourselves a complete disaster. An accident. No one wanted this to happen.
There are not many experts on fire safety. I am certainly not one of them.
I just suggest keeping logic and remaining 100% understanding of the pain some people are now going through as a result.
Queries from residents, both me and my team can manage and reassure.
It's middle management colleagues who are giving me the real grief. At least it's brought this massively important area to the top of the agenda.
As you said, the spotlight will shift when the shit hits the fan over some issue. And I can get back to protecting my residents rather than answering stupid pedantic questions and producing stats and figure which people have no idea of how to interpret.
That's the trouble - middle managers love to be involved and will argue with you even when they know fuck all. I felt like lamping some twat from a management consultancy who starting giving me advice about how to develop computer software despite having no knowledge on the subject - it's always those least qualified who offer you advice!
I have four 18 storey blocks in Hastings. You can't miss them if you are down there.
They were refurbished in exactly the same way. The cladding specified is of Class 1 standard and would not act as yesterday's fire.
However, we will be carrying out a destructive survey to test and ensure that the cladding installed is actually what was specified as I am unable to say it is with any confidence.
I know that some people are perhaps overstepping into aggression over this extremely emotive subject, but a few questions:
Do any of your properties use flammable cladding?
Have you received a number of letters, or been the subject of numerous blog-posts, which have warned of impending tragedy?
In short, has it been foreseeable that any of your properties could turn into enormous death-traps?
I suspect the answer to all these questions is a firm 'no'. And I suspect that you're good at your job and that you take all the necessary precautions to protect your tenants.
So I say: if you're good at your job, is it not in your interests to expect the same standards from others? You don't want others demeaning your profession with criminal neglect, surely?
I say this not in the spirit of conflict but as an appeal to your better nature...
Of course, you're right Leuth (never thought I'd say that).
I'm on the defensive, because of this horrible, horrible incident. I take these things personally, because it matters to me and people shouting the odds willy hilly in an area that I'm considered a specialist, without any knowledge other than reading a few tweets and a few blogs makes me want to scream.
Some of the assumptions made on this thread are so wide of the mark. And the worst of all is that the only reason these people died was because they were poor and nobody cares.
And yet some wanker can post on here and say I discust them.
Comments
And yes, I will be talking to my employer to let them know how uncomfortable I feel about my role now. I have to rely on so many different people from assessor to specialist sub contractors to protect the lives of my residents and tokeep me out of prison.
Even within my own organisation, suddenly everyone has become an expert of fire safety, an expert on fire engineering and an expert on fire forensics.
And like some of your idiotic statements, they are getting right on my tits.
Difficult choices? Hmmm people safe in their homes OR safe on the streets. As one of the most developed and wealthy countries on earth I do not see it unreasonable to change that OR to an AND.
The cladding used was Reynobond, used extensively throughout Europe.
http://www.arconic.com/aap/europe/pdf/Renovation Brochure_EN_012013.pdf
Until we have all the facts, I think a lot of people would do well to shut up and let the process take it course.
Only three things that people need to be calling for right now.
1) That the survivors who have been displaced are re-homed as soon as possible and with as much dignity as possible.
2) That there is a thorough, open and frank investigation, free from political bias and interference, into what happened.
3) That the findings of that investigation are followed by a thorough review of the management of fire safety in these buildings, up and down the land and around the world with improvements made wherever possible in order to minimise the chances of this happening again.
Near the start if this thread, there were a couple of posts praising the way the aviation industry handles disasters in the spirit of universal learning and improvement across the industry, and people wondered why that attitude doesn't happen elsewhere. Well, imo, we're seeing a snap shot of why. People are angry, quite understandably so, but even people almost entirely unaffected by what happened along with, gawd bless 'em, the media are up screaming for accountability and pointing the finger of blame in any which way they can. It is entirely counter productive. It makes people shut up shop, go into damage limitation mode, scared for their own reputation, for their job, for their livelihood.
Mistakes will have been made here, but almost certainly not maliciously. Some decision will possibly look reckless in the hindsight of knowing what has happened, but that doesn't mean this was an expected outcome at the time those decisions were made. If people knew things they were doing might lead to 10s of people dying a horrific death then they almost certainly would have changed their action.
If we want the truth to come out, then we need to give it space to come out and not make people fear the repercussions of it.
Hand over a floor or something
You are so right, every walk of life people are covering stuff up and hiding things through fear and it only ever exasperates the situation when the truth comes out. Thankfully I don't have to deal with disciplines involving actual human being or be a police officer. I could give a dozen examples of such things but I don't really need to and like the sensible heads are saying. It isn't really the time.
The media, the fucken media though. I haven't been able to escape flashes of things on the radio or tv that I would only describe as grief mining. They are loving it and I think I'm disgusted by it.
Chin up mate
Each flat should have a heat detector in their kitchen linked to the alarm system as well as a stand alone smoke detector in their hallway.
The alarm should only sound on the floor and probably the floors above and below, to warn people ON THOSE FLOORS that there is a fire. If they can evacuate the building then they should, if not, then they should stay put as they are in a protected compartment.
The building would have smoke vents operated by smoke detectors on most floors as well as at the top of the protected stairwell. Serviced every year.
The building would have a dry riser from ground to top floor with outlets on every floor. Serviced every year.
The building should have an extensive covering of emergency lights, flick tested monthly (I admit we do not do this as we have over 30,000 emergency lights) and each light has a three hour 'drop test' carried out annually to ensure the batteries last.
Bin chutes should have dampers on them at first floor level. Again, serviced annually.
The common parts would NOT have any fire extinguishers.
A fire action plan should be adjacent to the entrance to the stairwell on every floor along with relevant fire exit, running man, fire door and no smoking signs.
I would then Risk Assess annually to ensure everything was carried out as it should be.
I have no control on what a resident does behind their closed flat door. I upgrade flat doors but am not able to do the same to any leaseholders doors.
I have investigated, studied in great detail and read about high rise fires around the World. I have never seen anything like this.
Hopefully this disaster will lead to regs that will stop this being repeated.
Fairly sure this will become a requirement of the Building Regulations sooner rather than later. But they are not retrospective, which is what I fear is the big issue.
The residents of this block have been failed - I don't really see this makes a political point. It's not unreasonable to expect a reasonable degree of protection against fire.
Something has failed and we need action sooner rather than later to prevent this happening again.
I have four 18 storey blocks in Hastings. You can't miss them if you are down there.
They were refurbished in exactly the same way. The cladding specified is of Class 1 standard and would not act as yesterday's fire.
However, we will be carrying out a destructive survey to test and ensure that the cladding installed is actually what was specified as I am unable to say it is with any confidence.
As they have not counted the dead, let alone buried them, perhaps we can keep our emotions in check and give us time to reflect.
Next, the holistic view of fire prevention appears to consist smoke alarms, extinguishers, fire blankets, sprinklers for high rise, fire doors, structural integrity and cladding materials. Many thanks to @cafcfan for his apposite comments on the matter.
I will be taking steps this weekend.
And the politics? Perhaps too soon? Leave it to political leaders like Corbyn to meet the people.
Today we hear of appropriate inquiry etc. But we've had those before after other fires and they all recommend the retro fit of sprinklers. @MuttleyCAFC supplies the link above.
As for cladding containing flammable materials such as plywood, plastic and whatever? Mind boggling! The block was engulfed in flames within 1/2 an hour? I'm not sure any sprinkler system can deal with that. Who the hell allows a load of plastic and plywood to be put up around tower blocks which could be ignited from any single flat?
The cost of remediating any other deathtraps is surely irrelevant. Or are we happy to sit there and twiddle our thumbs awaiting the next inferno? In contrast, how long did it take May after the Borough Market attack to talk of dismantling human rights and deporting suspects?
Three days perhaps?
All blocks throughout the country need checking out and remedial works commissioned. If the work is uneconomical or unaffordable to the owner then they simply have to decommission whilst rehousing the residents.
Tried to avoid a rant but I heard the 2014 speech earlier today on the radio and it was a shocker.
As per my thoughts at the top RIP and thoughts with the families.
Today I checked all of the blocks I manage and none have new cladding. They're all brick built and untouched. Which is a relief to me. I have 2 colleagues who manage high rise buildings that have been refurbed with external cladding. Their phones don't stop and they have constant callers to the office. Which we all help with. I feel for them and the staff who managed Grenfell at the face to face level.
It could leave those responsible for fire safety in an impossible situation if specifications are not met. We all rely on trust.....
In this current situation we need to look for solutions if a major problem has been identified. The blame game should not be the main issue.
It's middle management colleagues who are giving me the real grief. At least it's brought this massively important area to the top of the agenda.
As you said, the spotlight will shift when the shit hits the fan over some issue. And I can get back to protecting my residents rather than answering stupid pedantic questions and producing stats and figure which people have no idea of how to interpret.
Fires can start. What your looking at is how to prevent it from spreading as harshly and quickly as it did. That's where potential negligence and where blame can occur.
I really do not like the Tory Government at all but I have seen the phrase "corporate manslaughter" and it can make you think. It's too early to dive into that direction.
We have ourselves a complete disaster. An accident. No one wanted this to happen.
There are not many experts on fire safety. I am certainly not one of them.
I just suggest keeping logic and remaining 100% understanding of the pain some people are now going through as a result.
The truth will come out in the end.
Do any of your properties use flammable cladding?
Have you received a number of letters, or been the subject of numerous blog-posts, which have warned of impending tragedy?
In short, has it been foreseeable that any of your properties could turn into enormous death-traps?
I suspect the answer to all these questions is a firm 'no'. And I suspect that you're good at your job and that you take all the necessary precautions to protect your tenants.
So I say: if you're good at your job, is it not in your interests to expect the same standards from others? You don't want others demeaning your profession with criminal neglect, surely?
I say this not in the spirit of conflict but as an appeal to your better nature...
I'm on the defensive, because of this horrible, horrible incident. I take these things personally, because it matters to me and people shouting the odds willy hilly in an area that I'm considered a specialist, without any knowledge other than reading a few tweets and a few blogs makes me want to scream.
Some of the assumptions made on this thread are so wide of the mark. And the worst of all is that the only reason these people died was because they were poor and nobody cares.
And yet some wanker can post on here and say I discust them.