The tuition fee pledge was back in 2010. New generation of students who won’t really be bothered by something in ancient history. The next general election will be the third since then. I am sure that the younger generation will be far more concerned about their futures being sold down the river by loony politicians like Rees-Mogg and Johnson.
I do however recognise that the Liberal Dems are starting too far down the grid to make any difference regardless of policy. As for Vince Cable. Do me a favour.
The shadow that hangs heavily over the LibDems is the tuition fee hike. I know somebody in work, past the threshold of earning enough to start repaying at the set level which he has done religiously, whose student debt at the end of the year was higher than at the beginning of the year. Seeing as we're also talking about the Bank of England. That student debt is set at a rate of 6.8%, more even than that bastard Duchatelet is charging Charlton in interest via Staprix. So even though the LibDems have basically a remainer stance, they have caused themselves a huge amount of damage over the fees backtrack.
I think Vince Cable as the leader is more of a hindrance than the tuition fee u-turn.
I can get over tuition fees and Vince, I can't get over them being austerity enablers. I can just about forgive them for accepting a dodgy PR referendum although I would bring it up every time we argued.
Having said that I would vote for them if it meant beating a Tory candidate.
The fact that she hasn't been taken to task on it, is an indictment of how broken our system is. Now here is something we can criticise Corbyn for, but he is not the only one.
I still don't understand why people expect Corbyn to oppose something he agrees with, he's a Brexiteer.
another SMEAR(tm). Corbyn is a genius, he's got it exactly planned out and is just calling the bluff of the nasty nasty SCUM(tm) party.
You really think Corbyn believes in The EU? Ifso, you really need to do some more research.
I think you have been wooshed, unless you are double wooshing.
Maybe I am, but I thought Kent was a Muttleyesque believer.
It's been a long week!
I am a supporter, not a believer. I think he is what the country needs - We have an incompetent government who have totally cocked this country up over the past few years and to want something different is strange? Bloody hell! Wanting more of this crap - what sort of cult do you belong to?
The fact that she hasn't been taken to task on it, is an indictment of how broken our system is. Now here is something we can criticise Corbyn for, but he is not the only one.
I still don't understand why people expect Corbyn to oppose something he agrees with, he's a Brexiteer.
another SMEAR(tm). Corbyn is a genius, he's got it exactly planned out and is just calling the bluff of the nasty nasty SCUM(tm) party.
You really think Corbyn believes in The EU? Ifso, you really need to do some more research.
I think you have been wooshed, unless you are double wooshing.
Maybe I am, but I thought Kent was a Muttleyesque believer.
It's been a long week!
I am a supporter, not a believer. I think he is what the country needs - We have an incompetent government who have totally cocked this country up over the past few years and to want something different is strange? Bloody hell! Wanting more of this crap - what sort of cult do you belong to?
Who said it's strange? The only strange part is how you've convinced yourself he's not pro-Brexit, despite all the evidence.
But I haven't said that - I have said he is Brexiter by instinct but accepts the case for remaining on economic grounds. It clearly isn't such a big issue for him, but my point is that works both ways. With the right numbers/pressure he will not die in a ditch over backing a second referendum, even though he is mindful of the core Labour voters who voted Brexit. It isn't that complicated unless you don't want to get it!
Theresa May crawling to Macron is a very desperate look. The actual practicalities are creeping ever closer, and some of the collateral from this weather are a forerunner of things to come with leaving with no deal. Shortages and travel disruption. There will be other squeezes too on the UK lifestyle, mind you brexiters say it will be worth it to achieve the isolation they have invited on. Each post brexit privation will be greeted like the Month Python Knight 'tis but a scratch'. Liam Fox says no deal is now likely, 60/40. If you want to know the practical issues that follow, then watch the chilling 3blokes in a pub video posted above by Prague.
Theresa May crawling to Macron is a very desperate look. The actual practicalities are creeping ever closer, and some of the collateral from this weather are a forerunner of things to come with leaving with no deal. Shortages and travel disruption. There will be other squeezes too on the UK lifestyle, mind you brexiters say it will be worth it to achieve the isolation they have invited on. Each post brexit privation will be greeted like the Month Python Knight 'tis but a scratch'. Liam Fox says no deal is now likely, 60/40. If you want to know the practical issues that follow, then watch the chilling 3blokes in a pub video posted above by Prague.
Not bored, we're fast approaching the good bit, where without having to do anything but accept the result, we can watch the brexiters crash and burn in a disaster of their own making.
And for this still to be the case more two years after the referendum and just a few short weeks before the negotiations are due to conclude, is a damning indictment of where we've allowed ourselves to fall.
Not bored, we're fast approaching the good bit, where without having to do anything but accept the result, we can watch the brexiters crash and burn in a disaster of their own making.
Well it was a disaster joining which i had no say in doing, so that makes it even.
Not bored, we're fast approaching the good bit, where without having to do anything but accept the result, we can watch the brexiters crash and burn in a disaster of their own making.
Yeah. I can't wait until we are completely fucked either. Just so I can say "told you so" to a bunch of racists. Yaaaaay
Liam Fox taking political opportunism to a new level. Looking forward to a series of inane pronouncements as we fail to make deals on anything - Foxy and his chums will just tell us not to worry.
Liam Fox taking political opportunism to a new level. Looking forward to a series of inane pronouncements as we fail to make deals on anything - Foxy and his chums will just tell us not to worry.
Not bored, we're fast approaching the good bit, where without having to do anything but accept the result, we can watch the brexiters crash and burn in a disaster of their own making.
Well it was a disaster joining which i had no say in doing, so that makes it even.
Not bored, we're fast approaching the good bit, where without having to do anything but accept the result, we can watch the brexiters crash and burn in a disaster of their own making.
Yeah. I can't wait until we are completely fucked either. Just so I can say "told you so" to a bunch of racists. Yaaaaay
'I told you so' to the racist brexit voters is so last year. The UK is fucked right now however this plays out. I am very impressed that you agree with me.
Liam Fox taking political opportunism to a new level. Looking forward to a series of inane pronouncements as we fail to make deals on anything - Foxy and his chums will just tell us not to worry.
It's clear that between now and April Brexiteers and this government will be ramping up the rhetoric that none of this is our their fault and if it weren't for the pesky EU sticking to their own rules and Remainers not wishing hard enough it would all be sorted by now.
We had Hunt last weekend, this weekend its "The easiest deal in human history..." Liam Fox, (Fox ffs!) laying the blame for our own idiocy elsewhere. Boris has been quiet for a week or two so I'd expect him to pipe up soon reminding Telegraph readers how easy it all is and it's only the intransigence and spite of Barnier et al stopping us reaching the sunny uplands.
Many Leavers will lap it up though as it coincides neatly with the whole EU = bullying, oppressive regime nonsense they've bought in to.
I think it's abundantly clear now that our politicians have done no planning for Brexit and we're reliant on crossing our fingers and hoping all will be okay.
One question you don't see asked is that if this organisation is so difficult to leave....why would one want to be a part of it in the first place?!
This is coming from someone who a few months ago had some fairly sophisticated (if highly speculative) arguments in favour of Brexit. This is the best he's got now.
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
As the old saying goes, "Assumption is the Mother of all fuck ups."
First of all, the government did not plan on leaving the European Union, they campaigned to stay in it but lost.
It was incumbent on Farage, Johnson et al to explain HOW they were going to leave the EU and untangle 40 years of complex trade deals in about two years once Article 50 was invoked.
From what I could see they never explained how they would do it at all, just spouted a whole bunch of bullshit about how easy it would be and how the NHS was going to get 350 million extra quid per week once the UK left the EU and just enough people fell for it.
Of course, the problem is that they now have to deliver the undeliverable and reality is going to hit them - and the UK as a whole - square in the bollocks come next March.
It is becoming increasingly obvious that the EU themselves are determined to make an example of the UK to prevent anyone else from trying to break off in the future.
So, the UK has two options, take the hard Brexit and suffer horrendous economic and political shock or, go to the EU with its tail between its legs and beg to be taken back into the fold and admit the whole things was a complete debacle.
The EU are clearly not that interested in a compromise option and you can't really blame them as it doesn't really benefit them to offer it.
Sorry, but it wasn't incumbent on any particular individual to day How wr should
One question you don't see asked is that if this organisation is so difficult to leave....why would one want to be a part of it in the first place?!
Why would anyone get married when divorces can be so difficult and expensive?
On a more serious note, leaving the EU is relatively straight-forward, all you have to do is decide where you want to go before you leave and plan accordingly. Unfortunately May drew up a list of mutually exclusive requirements for the final destination, her party are at war over where that destination should be and the referendum didn't ask the destination question at all, just if we'd like to go or not.
There is another thread running devoted to pensions. There, an Independent Financial Adviser makes the following comment (with my emphasis in bold):
Transfer values have never been so good - but that doesn't mean you should transfer away your benefits into a PP that could be ravaged by Brexit over the next few years.
And the identity of this perceptive and alert IFA?
Why, none other than one of this thread's most resolute Brexiteers....
There is another thread running devoted to pensions. There, an Independent Financial Adviser makes the following comment (with my emphasis in bold):
Transfer values have never been so good - but that doesn't mean you should transfer away your benefits into a PP that could be ravaged by Brexit over the next few years.
And the identity of this perceptive and alert IFA?
Why, none other than one of this thread's most resolute Brexiteers....
Comments
I do however recognise that the Liberal Dems are starting too far down the grid to make any difference regardless of policy. As for Vince Cable. Do me a favour.
Having said that I would vote for them if it meant beating a Tory candidate.
The actual practicalities are creeping ever closer, and some of the collateral from this weather are a forerunner of things to come with leaving with no deal. Shortages and travel disruption.
There will be other squeezes too on the UK lifestyle, mind you brexiters say it will be worth it to achieve the isolation they have invited on. Each post brexit privation will be greeted like the Month Python Knight 'tis but a scratch'.
Liam Fox says no deal is now likely, 60/40. If you want to know the practical issues that follow, then watch the chilling 3blokes in a pub video posted above by Prague.
And for this still to be the case more two years after the referendum and just a few short weeks before the negotiations are due to conclude, is a damning indictment of where we've allowed ourselves to fall.
The UK is fucked right now however this plays out.
I am very impressed that you agree with me.
ourtheir fault and if it weren't for the pesky EU sticking to their own rules and Remainers not wishing hard enough it would all be sorted by now.We had Hunt last weekend, this weekend its "The easiest deal in human history..." Liam Fox, (Fox ffs!) laying the blame for our own idiocy elsewhere. Boris has been quiet for a week or two so I'd expect him to pipe up soon reminding Telegraph readers how easy it all is and it's only the intransigence and spite of Barnier et al stopping us reaching the sunny uplands.
Many Leavers will lap it up though as it coincides neatly with the whole EU = bullying, oppressive regime nonsense they've bought in to.
It must be a dream...
I reckon Trump was right......we should sue them for mis-representation. (joke)
On a more serious note, leaving the EU is relatively straight-forward, all you have to do is decide where you want to go before you leave and plan accordingly. Unfortunately May drew up a list of mutually exclusive requirements for the final destination, her party are at war over where that destination should be and the referendum didn't ask the destination question at all, just if we'd like to go or not.
There is another thread running devoted to pensions. There, an Independent Financial Adviser makes the following comment (with my emphasis in bold):
Transfer values have never been so good - but that doesn't mean you should transfer away your benefits into a PP that could be ravaged by Brexit over the next few years.
And the identity of this perceptive and alert IFA?
Why, none other than one of this thread's most resolute Brexiteers....
step forward @golfaddick
:-)